Who is the Antichrist? Let's Put a Name on Him.

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David in NJ

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True, the shape and manner of the flesh was corrupted by angel seed.

I've already corrected this false teaching about what the pagans meant by demigods, being born of the gods, differing in power of spirit from other men.


Neither flesh and blood, nor seed of man has anything to do with the soul and spirit of man created by Christ alone.

The spirit and soul is not mortal flesh:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


All flesh is made naturally mortal by Christ. Death of the body is not a curse, nor sinful, but is natural in all things earthly.

The curse of sin is death of the soul, in spiritual death and separation from Christ and the life of the Spirit.

Being born with some sin nature, so that the body and earth itself becomes 'cursed' with mortality, is a false tradition of foolish Christianity.


I don't know about any parody going on. Unless it's teaching myths of pagans for Scripture of God.


And blessings to you t0o in your life.

Just not some of your teachings. :)
You misread my post.
the angels came to earth and took on flesh and had union with "daughters of men" = also flesh
therefore their offspring was also flesh = "giants and men of renown = human/flesh capabilities beyond what God created in Adam

You said: "Death of the body is not a curse, nor sinful, but is natural in all things earthly."

Death of the physical body of man is a curse from God and is not natural = from the Beginning.

It only seems natural to us because the entire creation has been under the curse of death since Adam & Eve sinned = see Genesis, the Prophets and Romans

Stay away from the myths of naturalism, humanism and unbelief in the Scripture as "it is written".
 

robert derrick

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Where do you put Gilgamesh into Scripture?

Why are you reverting to human historical figures, and leaving God's Word behind?
Gilgamesh is a mythical figure that never existed.

He is not Nimrod of Scripture, nor is his flood that of God.

All myths are inspired by Lucifer, to corrupt the revealed truth of Scripture, so as to mock the Bible as just another book of myths, such as the Gilgamesh Epic.

Joseph Campbell made himself fame and money among the unbelievers and decieved Christians alike, by showing how the Bible is just another version of other religions and myths.

He said Jesus was teaching another form of Buddhism, and the 'flood story' was just another version of the Gilgamesh Epic, that was the first written myth and poem before the Bible.

The 'kernel of truth' becomes the distant memory of man, rather than the inspiration of the Spirit of Christ.

As though Moses wrote the first four books of the Bible, from oral tradition and memory alone.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Oral tradition and memory is completely by will of man.
 

ewq1938

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In these matter of prophecy at least, you've thrown away any honorable teaching of Scripture according to the words of Scripture. Such as your debunking of the old Christian false tradition of being born with a 'sin nature'.

No, I'm right on both. How long did it take for you to be convinced I was correct on that?
 

RR144

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It's going to be important very soon, for some to know who the Antichrist is.

Since I believe the Word tells us who the Antichrist is, it might be important to begin by identifying who He is not.

The Antichrist is neither Jewish, nor Roman.

Comments?
The antichrist is not a man, it is a system.
 
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The Light

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Gilgamesh is a mythical figure that never existed.
Yeah, I know. They found his mythical tomb in the mythical year of 2003. His mythical tomb was located under a mythical river called the Euphrates. There was also a mythical Gulf War 2 that was fought, though some claim there actually was a war.
 

The Light

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The anti is not a man, it is a system.
Isaiah 14
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

2 Thes 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Mmmm..................
 

BarneyFife

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And this is the definition of hypocrisy. Kind of odd coming from someone who wouldn't diviate at all from the official doctrine of SDA. Good people in general but everyone here recognizes the cultish nature of that group. SDA's believe in a future Ac, further making the post very weird.
Seventh-day Adventists believe in the historical Antichrist—past, present, and future. Just as the Reformers did.

It is not hard to discover what Adventists believe, unless one insists on getting their information from websites of avowed critics whose main interest is defamation and great numbers of click-thrus and visits.
 
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ewq1938

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But, in any case, the beast is a man cast alive into the LOF, along with his false prophet.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Is this the same beast in Rev 13:1? Is this a man in Daniel 7:7? In both there is a ten horned beast.
 

Brakelite

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And this is the definition of hypocrisy. Kind of odd coming from someone who wouldn't diviate at all from the official doctrine of SDA. Good people in general but everyone here recognizes the cultish nature of that group. SDA's believe in a future Ac, further making the post very weird.
If your search for truth brings the same kind of result as your present understanding of Adventist teaching and worldview, I don't hold much hope for you. But rest assured, you aren't alone I in your self induced ignorance of adventism. As Barney said, there are numerous web sites and blogs given over to the sole purpose of discrediting Adventist teaching and doctrine. While there are literally dozens of excellent web sites with resources in video, book, article, and sermon form with nothing to hide and no shame in loudly proclaiming Bible doctrine.
Cult you say? Tell me. Are these the words and counsel of a cult leader?

In public labor do not make prominent and quote that which Sister White has written as authority to sustain your positions. To do this will not increase faith in the testimonies.

Bring your evidences, clear and plain, from the Word of God.

A Thus saith the Lord is the strongest testimony you can possibly present to the people.

LET NONE BE EDUCATED TO LOOK TO Sister White, but to the mighty God, who gives instruction to Sister White.—

Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don’t you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible.

When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God.

But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don’t you give a rap any more what “Sister White said”—“Sister White said this,” and “Sister White said that,” and “Sister White said the other thing.”

But say, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel,” and then you do just what the Lord God of Israel does, and what he says. SpM 167.2.
 
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Brakelite

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Back to the Antichrist...
God’s love: infinite, abundant,unreserved,unconditional.

God so loves the world, that there is not one person, living or dead, that Jesus did not die for. The apostle Paul says that if God was so willing to give His Son, He along with His Son willingly offers everything else also (Romans 8:32). This without any doubt includes all the advice, counsel, and directions in order that we may find our way to Him (Jeremiah 6:16; Matt.7:14; Hebrews 1:1-3;12:1,2; 1 Peter 2:2:21-25) along with all the warnings of the pitfalls, dangers, and wrong paths that may lead us astray.God has clearly described the full gospel, demonstrated His love, proclaimed His grace and mercy, and He has defined sin, exposed heresy, exposed our enemies, and repeatedly warned us of Satan’s many varied and subtle deceptions that would lead us into a false hope (John 10:10; Isaiah 45:19; Amos 3:7; Isaiah 8:19,20). When time comes that we must face our Maker, we will have no excuse.

As we look to the future, prophecy informs us that we are nearing a time of great crisis of such magnitude that not since Noah has there been a time of such import and significance. And in fact in Revelation 14:9-11 is the most dire warning in all scripture, and that time is immediately before us. So I ask. Is this warning given in love? Yes. If such a dire warning is given, do you think God would also offer a sure identification of the Antichrist that we may not be deceived? Again, the answer is yes. And would not that same love also reveal not just who the beast is, but how we may avoid its mark? Remember, “He that spared not His own Son, but offered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?”

Let us get real here.

Why is it that many in the church then move away from that revelation regarding the Antichrist, and attach to him their own theories and opinions when no such things are necessary? God has not enshrouded His warnings in a mystery that cannot be understood. The church has become full of prognosticators and clairvoyants, finding simple Biblical exegesis insufficient so people devise imaginative future enemies about to persecute the church, attack Israel, decimate all that they believe is good and sound, all the while ignoring and setting aside God’s word that warns them that the enemy is not without the church, but within. In attempting to tell everyone that the enemy is still future and is coming from the horizon afar off, they do the devil’s own work and deceive people into ignoring the real enemy who is standing beside them whose doctrines and dogmas they have all been partaking of. In this they are ignoring the very word of God that says “Come out of her my people”. God says come out, they say he hasn’t arrived yet. And not only so, but because they believe the coming enemy is an individual, how can they come out anyway from an individual? God’s warning makes no sense to such a one. They fail to perceive that the Antichrist is not an individual, but a succession of individuals who preside over the one system. It is that system that is so very well described in scripture, and it is that system that God calls His people to leave. It is the system that God warns of, it is the system that is the enemy, and it is that system that so many are even now fully card-carrying-life members of but are totally unaware and oblivious of the danger!

In Revelation 13, that wonderful chapter that focuses so intently on the ‘Beast’ and its character and work, mentions ‘worship’ five times, and in the following chapter, 3 times. Satan lusts for and craves worship. Isaiah quotes Lucifer in

Isaiah 14:13,14. “I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.”!! Satan, aka Lucifer, has an “I” problem.

If Satan however strolled into the local church, of whatever denomination, introduced himself and said “worship me”, is the congregation going to do that? Hardly. Does Satan know such a tactic would fail? Of course. So in order for him to receive the worship he so desperately craves, he has to make people believe they are worshiping the true God, when in actuality they are worshiping the false. Thus Satan has to use deception. He must introduce a system of worship that is so close to the original that it is almost impossible to tell them apart. He must introduce a counterfeit. He cannot do this by force, as people will be on to it immediately. In order to destroy the church, Satan tried with persecution through pagan Rome, but failing to lessen the growth of the church, he had to use more subtle methods. Introducing false doctrine he slowly but surely began to chip away at the foundations of truth until the people were believing a lie. Then they would be ready for the last great deception, and be led into false worship. God, Who sees the end from the beginning, warns us of this great counterfeit.

God has shown us who is Antichrist.

Paul wrote in

2 Thess. 2:3,4. “Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day (the second advent) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped: so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”

Here we see Antichrist promoting himself to a place of worship. What is the temple of God in the Christian era? It is the church. (1 Cor.3:16,17; 6:19; 2 Cor.6:16; Eph. 2:19-22). Therefore Antichrist is placing himself in a position of authority and as an object of worship within the church. He is not on the outside attacking the church, he is on the inside deceiving it. Paul repeats his former warning in

Acts 20:29,30. “I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”

Paul also says in

2Thess. 2:7 “the mystery of iniquity doth already work.” Thus the great apostasy he warned of had already begun in the days of the apostles, and this apostasy was to result in slowly and cunningly eroding away many important Bible truths from men’s minds that would last for centuries.

The Antichrist who was to bring on the crisis of the mark of the beast at the end of time began forming and growing into power in those early days. John confirmed this saying in

John 4:3 “that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now is it in the world.”

So Satan was raising up his counterfeit a long time ago,for it was through this counterfeit system of worship that Satan himself would be worshiped. Notice in…

Revelation 13:1 1 ¶ And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.”


Who is this dragon? Revelation 12:9 tells us

” And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

Thus it is Satan who gives the beast its power, its seat (or throne) and authority. Bu this is not all. In reading Revelation 13:1,2 we are taken back to the 4th beast of Daniel, pagan Rome. The parallels between pagan Rome and the dragon, both in symbol and practice, is not a coincidence. And documented history reveals that it was pagan Rome, more specifically Emperor Justinian, that gave official approval to the popes in the 6th century to assume civil power in Rome. It was from this time that the Roman church began its venture as a church/state union, the typical and common characteristic of all pagan religions. And continuing in

Revelation 13:3 “And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered (or marvel in admiration) after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”


So there it is. By worshiping Antichrist, they by proxy are worshiping Satan. Antichrist is Satan’s frontman, his alter-ego, his counterfeit. Through the worship of Antichrist Satan fulfils his lifelong dream to receive the worship of man. But there is more. He enlists help, and we read about this a little later in the same chapter…

11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
 
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Brakelite

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Continued....

Notice that it is the people, (the ‘they in verse 14) who under recommendation from the state power, create this image, another church/state union, and it is the second beast, or nation, that gives the church/state union its power. And notice that this nation with the horns like a lamb speaks as a dragon…speaks like the devil…like the pagan emperor who granted the Roman church power in the 6th century, so also does this second nation give power and authority to this newly developed church/state union.

The Majority will Worship their Enemy.

Deception,worship,deception,worship. These are the issues of the last days. Remember, this is God’s loving ‘revelation’ concerning true and false worship. It is the love of God which prompted Jesus to warn constantly of the core theme of the times leading up to His second advent.

Matt. 24:4 ¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many….11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many….23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Deception is surely a major factor contributing to the confusion and apostasy of Babylon. Are not the abominations in the cup which she holds her deceptions and false doctrines? But of what purpose are these deceptions if they do not relate directly to how we relate to our Creator? Are they not designed to draw us away from a right relationship with God? Yes, assuredly. But more than that, and I cannot stress this enough, Satan seeks to draw us away from the Creator toward himself. Through deception, he has the whole world worshiping the Antichrist, and the whole world believes they are worshiping God. The counterfeit system of worship is so beguiling, so attractive, and presents itself in such a loving, caring, compassionate, Christian way, that the entire world is deceived into accepting her, obeying her dogmas, following her counsel, keeping her man-made commandments.

The Truth Liberates.

So back to our original question. Does God want us to be so deluded that we would submit ourselves to a system of worship directed through Antichrist to Satan? Of course not. That is why Jesus warned us repeatedly of false prophets, false Christs. That is why the inspired scriptures go into such great and minute detail in the books of Daniel and Revelation concerning Antichrist and his work. And it is from these details that we can gather sufficient information to come to an honest and correct conclusion as to the exact identity of the Antichrist. To the precise identity of this false worship system that even now has much of the world in its grasp. The apostle Paul said that if we have a love for truth, we would not be deceived (2 Thessalonians 2:8-12) , and Paul is referring directly to the Antichrist when he penned these words. Jesus said in John 17:17 that we are sanctified by the word of truth, and in John 8:32 that if we continue in His word the truth of His word will set us free. Free from sin, free from error, free from false doctrine, free from deception.

According to most modern evangelists, Antichrist is yet to come. The scriptures however are very clear. Antichrist is here now, and hard at work drawing the world after him as you read these words. And true to form, and in fulfillment of prophecy, much of the Christian world is either in denial, deluded, or at best confused, as to the true nature of the beast which is before them. They see it, they even wonder after it marveling at her power and splendor, many praise it, countless millions obey her commands in direct contradistinction to the commandments of God, but very few perceive the true nature of it.

God’s exceedingly great and infinite love for you demands you understand this truth. In His word He has provided all the information needed to ensure that no-one need be deceived or lack understanding in matters relating to such an essential matter as worship. Worship is what is due our Creator. It is who we worship that defines our loyalties. And it is how we worship that defines who we worship. Jesus said to the Samaritan woman, “the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father is Spirit and in Truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.” John 4:22-24.

The last great delusion is set to present itself to the world, and even now is busily doing so. Antichrist is to perform his marvelous works in the sight of man. So closely will this system resemble the true, that it will be almost impossible to discern between truth and error except for the scriptures. No-one who hasn’t trained themselves to search for and grasp the truths of the Bible will remain faithful to the true God when the coming crisis deepens. When demands come that they obey certain commandments, because they have failed to study and accept scripture, they will not discern that these commandments of men demand submission to counterfeit truth, and usurp the commandments of God. The fearful judgements that are proclaimed against those who worship the beast, the image, and receive the mark, as revealed in Revelation 14, should drive all men to an earnest study of the scriptures and the prophecies to learn what the mark is, who the beast is, and how they are to avoid them.

The Bible, and the Bible only, must be the standard for all doctrine and belief.

As a wise woman once said…The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science,the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority …not one or all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain ‘thus saith the Lord’ in its support….with the many warnings against false teachers, why are the people so ready to commit the keeping of their souls to the clergy? There are today thousands of professors of religion who can give no other reason for the points of faith which they hold than that they were so instructed by their religious leaders…a lack of moral courage to step aside from the beaten track of the world, leads many to follow in the steps of learned men, and by their reluctance to investigate for themselves, they are becoming hopelessly fastened in the chains of error…the truth and the glory of God are inseparable; it is impossible for us, with the Bible within our reach, to honor God by erroneous opinions. It is the first and highest duty of every rational being to learn from the scriptures what is truth, and then to walk in the light, and encourage others to follow His example. Ignorance of God’s word is sin, when every provision has been made that we may become wise. We should day by day study the Bible diligently, weighing every thought, and comparing scripture with scripture. With divine help, we are to form our opinions for ourselves, as we are to answer for ourselves before God.

Compare Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. Take note of all the parallels. There is no other power other than the RCC which meets all the criteria of being the Antichrist of scripture. Nor is there any other nation than the US who being democratic, has the power and worldly influence and authority to convince her people, and then the world, to create a Protestant church/state union as a direct image of the papacy, demanding obedience to papal dogmas, papal creeds, and specifically with regard to the laws or commandments of God, Torah, submission to the papal counterfeit of Sabbath, Sunday. Sunday, the RCC officially claims, is the “mark of her authority” in religious matters. Remember, in Revelation 14 there are only two groups of people in the last days. The sheep and the goats are divided on the basis of obedience to God’s laws. Those who accept the mark of the beast, are set in direct contrast to “those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.” Revel. 14:12.
Study current events. Line them up with prophecy. And pray. Pray earnestly and diligently for confirmation and help from the Holy Spirit. God promises that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth. God wants you to know the truth. No more trusting in fictional novels and so-called ‘Christian’ movies. No more trusting in the clergy and the television evangelists who assume so much and present so little.

” To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Isaiah 8:20

And finally my friends, remember. If you do require help from a pastor or teacher or even me, always, and I repeat always, apply the above verse.
 
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Timtofly

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You have me thinking and i follow your train of thought and agree with the physical aspect of King on earth but would differ just slightly and here is why:

(For the Lord is our Judge,
The Lord is our Lawgiver,
The Lord is our King;
He will save us);
Isaiah 33:22

And the LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people regarding all that they say to you, because they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being King over them.
1 Samuel 8:7

You can also say that 'Messiah' pertains to His earthly role as well since it was mandated that He come to earth in the flesh - born of a virgin, of the line of Judah an Israelite - AND - be "cut off, but not for Himself"

Would not His true spiritual status be the same as it was from the Beginning???
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning."

Would not this be eternally true???
Grace and peace to you from Him who is and was and is to come, and from the seven Spiritsc before His throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood, 6who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and power forever and ever! Amen.

7Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

8I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty.

peace
The eternal status of Jesus is equally physical and spiritual from before creation.

Being physically born was only for our understanding to comprehend a physical aspect.

The term Lord covers all three persons of the term God; Adonia or Yhvh.

The physical aspect of the Word was not part of the vocabulary of the OT. But the Messiah aspect would cover the spiritual role as the future promise of spiritual redemption to God. Since the Son was still future, the Trinity relationship was not Father and Son in OT Scripture. The term Son of man was used once in Daniel 7 indicating the Word had a physical form at least 500 years before Jesus was born. Some try to point out Daniel was talking about an event after the birth. However, people reading Daniel would know that a physical body as a son of man would describe the Word, had the Holy Spirit shown them. There were two people still looking for the physical son of man at the time Jesus was born. To say that was an unknown cannot be true. Luke 2:25-38

When people argue the Trinity and this is one of the subjects that are not negotiable if one wants to continue posting, but do we view the Trinity outside of creation, or just the Lord? A true view of the Trinity would mean time is not a factor considering the Resurrection body of Christ. The Resurrection body always has existed, even before creation itself. Some people who agree with the Trinity, seem stuck in the notion thr the Resurrection body only existed post the Cross. If that is the case, one may as well say the Trinity only applies to this creation. In the NHNE, Adonia may have even more persons. I am not against the Trinity. I see it more than just the rigid definition human place on it. But Paul points out that at the end, even the Son is made subject to God, as if the Trinity wad no longer applicable.

"For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

John describes the same point:

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

Does God become all in all as Paul claims, even though John watched it all dissappear? The same thing, John only saw God as one, and nothing else besides God, until a new creation started. According to John all that was left outside of creation and time, were the dead, the place called death, the place called sheol, and they all were cast into the LOF. Now we have the LOF separate from creation and time, even the NHNE. Yet the Lamb and God are still found in the next creation. Of course all the sons of God remain in the NHNE. Many refuse to see the physical aspect of creation and symbolize it away.

The physical part of creation is corrupt right now. That does not mean creation cannot be changed, because it is mere physical. Neither is the physical transformed into something spiritual. The physical is equal to and just as important as the spiritual aspect of creation, just with sin and the curse taken away. My point was as Messiah/Christ Jesus restored the spiritual. As Prince/King Jesus restores the physical. Still the same Word.
 
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David in NJ

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The eternal status of Jesus is equally physical and spiritual from before creation.

Being physically born was only for our understanding to comprehend a physical aspect.

The term Lord covers all three persons of the term God; Adonia or Yhvh.

The physical aspect of the Word was not part of the vocabulary of the OT. But the Messiah aspect would cover the spiritual role as the future promise of spiritual redemption to God. Since the Son was still future, the Trinity relationship was not Father and Son in OT Scripture. The term Son of man was used once in Daniel 7 indicating the Word had a physical form at least 500 years before Jesus was born. Some try to point out Daniel was talking about an event after the birth. However, people reading Daniel would know that a physical body as a son of man would describe the Word, had the Holy Spirit shown them. There were two people still looking for the physical son of man at the time Jesus was born. To say that was an unknown cannot be true. Luke 2:25-38

When people argue the Trinity and this is one of the subjects that are not negotiable if one wants to continue posting, but do we view the Trinity outside of creation, or just the Lord? A true view of the Trinity would mean time is not a factor considering the Resurrection body of Christ. The Resurrection body always has existed, even before creation itself. Some people who agree with the Trinity, seem stuck in the notion thr the Resurrection body only existed post the Cross. If that is the case, one may as well say the Trinity only applies to this creation. In the NHNE, Adonia may have even more persons. I am not against the Trinity. I see it more than just the rigid definition human place on it. But Paul points out that at the end, even the Son is made subject to God, as if the Trinity wad no longer applicable.

"For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

John describes the same point:

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

Does God become all in all as Paul claims, even though John watched it all dissappear? The same thing, John only saw God as one, and nothing else besides God, until a new creation started. According to John all that was left outside of creation and time, were the dead, the place called death, the place called sheol, and they all were cast into the LOF. Now we have the LOF separate from creation and time, even the NHNE. Yet the Lamb and God are still found in the next creation. Of course all the sons of God remain in the NHNE. Many refuse to see the physical aspect of creation and symbolize it away.

The physical part of creation is corrupt right now. That does not mean creation cannot be changed, because it is mere physical. Neither is the physical transformed into something spiritual. The physical is equal to and just as important as the spiritual aspect of creation, just with sin and the curse taken away. My point was as Messiah/Christ Jesus restored the spiritual. As Prince/King Jesus restores the physical. Still the same Word.

Good stuff.
i cannot find any Scripture that the Son was flesh before His incarnation.
Daniel was shown the future, therefore he witnessed the physical form of "Son of Man" in future tense.- not present tense.

The Trinity is not a dogma of religion(catholocism etc) but is Torah and Gospel = Genesis, Isaiah, John

No Trinity = No Gospel

What did John watch dissapear?
 

David in NJ

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If your search for truth brings the same kind of result as your present understanding of Adventist teaching and worldview, I don't hold much hope for you. But rest assured, you aren't alone I in your self induced ignorance of adventism. As Barney said, there are numerous web sites and blogs given over to the sole purpose of discrediting Adventist teaching and doctrine. While there are literally dozens of excellent web sites with resources in video, book, article, and sermon form with nothing to hide and no shame in loudly proclaiming Bible doctrine.
Cult you say? Tell me. Are these the words and counsel of a cult leader?

In public labor do not make prominent and quote that which Sister White has written as authority to sustain your positions. To do this will not increase faith in the testimonies.

Bring your evidences, clear and plain, from the Word of God.

A Thus saith the Lord is the strongest testimony you can possibly present to the people.

LET NONE BE EDUCATED TO LOOK TO Sister White, but to the mighty God, who gives instruction to Sister White.—

Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don’t you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible.

When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God.

But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don’t you give a rap any more what “Sister White said”—“Sister White said this,” and “Sister White said that,” and “Sister White said the other thing.”

But say, “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel,” and then you do just what the Lord God of Israel does, and what he says. SpM 167.2.

Sounds like a cult to me = scriptually speaking of course
 

Always Believing

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Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


It is not the Lord that will cause him to live again. He will be cloned and brought back to life.


The giants were demigods in that their fathers were fallen angels. Yet they can be killed.
You should realize that the story of a woman, Mary, having a child whose father was not a man was also told long ago by Satan. It's just that the mother was not Mary and the father was not of the spirit of God and the child was not Jesus.
The story of the false savior, Tammuz has spread all over the world. Most of the false religions of the world have the sun god as the father, The false savior Tammuz is also known as Horus, or Mithra, or Thor, or Apollo etc., etc., etc. If you look on the back of the dollar bill you will see a pyramid with the eye of Horus on the back. I think you are not realizing that these people are NOT myths but are in fact the false religion that spread from Babylon which is why Babylon is the hammer of the earth.

BTW. Islam is different. In Islam it is the moon god that is the father god and not the sun god. FYI.

On your first point, it is one of the horns of the beast of the earth that it the popular person. And it is the other horn of the beast of the earth, the false prophet that causes the world to worship the beast of the sea.

Nothing to forgive brother. The things I have said are a little hard to swallow. But if you realize why the fir trees rejoice when he is laid down, this person can be no one else but Nimrod. There will be no more millions and millions of Christmas trees cut down when he is laid down.

There is no doubt that Nimrod is the king of Babylon, who is also an Assyrian, who was before John's time, is not at John's time and will come again. He died by the sword and will live again. There is no new thing under the sun. The first to bring world order will be the last to bring world order

The coming world order is right around the corner. The wise will be watching and ready for the coming of the Lord. The wise will have oil in their lamps so they can see. The time draws very short. Be watching and be ready.
So you're the one that has come up with the risen dead man theory for the beast. I've never heard that one before. It certainly is unique. In the spirit of the teaching I have a possibility you might want to consider.

The first beast rises to live again from the sea and the second is from the earth and so both could be made alive again. The Bible says the rest of the dead shall live again at the white throned judgement and that the sea gives up the dead in it as separate from hell giving up the dead in it. I've always found that peculiar but in this context it makes difference between the dead that live again from the sea and them from the earth.

Also it says they give up the dead in them. That is by the power of God as if commanding them. Since God can command the sea and the earth to give up their dead during that judgment, then why not two specific dead sooner? All the dead are going to live again anyway. Jesus did once already with Lazarus to live again on earth after being physically dead. And so in a sense the beast and false prophet are early risers back to life on earth and then they too are cast into the lake of fire sooner than the rest of the dead that will live again to be judged.

Maybe another besides Nimrod will also rise again to assist him. Someone that was once a false prophet or priest already.
 

Always Believing

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The AC is not even human, but a beast. That "wicked" that Paul mentions. Paul does not even call it a human.
That's right. Paul doesn't call him a human, but a man. A man of sin. A thinking man that shows himself off as God. Animals don't think of God at all. They are not made in His image nor lightened by Christ to have power to do so.
 

Timtofly

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Gilgamesh is a mythical figure that never existed.

He is not Nimrod of Scripture, nor is his flood that of God.

All myths are inspired by Lucifer, to corrupt the revealed truth of Scripture, so as to mock the Bible as just another book of myths, such as the Gilgamesh Epic.

Joseph Campbell made himself fame and money among the unbelievers and decieved Christians alike, by showing how the Bible is just another version of other religions and myths.

He said Jesus was teaching another form of Buddhism, and the 'flood story' was just another version of the Gilgamesh Epic, that was the first written myth and poem before the Bible.

The 'kernel of truth' becomes the distant memory of man, rather than the inspiration of the Spirit of Christ.

As though Moses wrote the first four books of the Bible, from oral tradition and memory alone.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Oral tradition and memory is completely by will of man.
The whole point is that one history is recorded by humans about the same people found in Scripture, not the other way around. They were the same person. The human person was mentioned in Scripture.

A person could write about Abraham Lincoln as a strong Christian. Or they could turn his time into a vampire hunter as some "hidden fact". That does not mean Abraham Lincoln a fake made up person.

There was only one Flood in history and all legands are about that one single Flood.

Why would I ever point out Scripture came from human legends passed down from generation to generation? I would point out that Jesus with His nail scares and pierced side, sat down with Moses on mount Sinai as the Word, and told Moses the whole history of all creation. From the beginning to the end, after the Day of the Lord. You think it took 40 days to talk about just the book of Genesis? Moses was one of the OT witnesses, who appeared in a permanent incorruptible physical body on the mount of Transfiguration. Moses was not condemned to death for disobedience. He was prevented from the celebration of entering and settling the Promised Land with Joshua.

"And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated."

There was nothing physically wrong with Moses. He was taken from the earth. But under terms of His punishment, it was like a physical death to his people, because his time on earth was over. His body was not sent to the grave. He did not go to Abraham's bosom. He was one of the 4 witnesses. Moses wrote those words that he died, and told them not to look for his body, because they would never find it. No one actually saw Moses die, and wrote about it.

Any one claiming Moses physically died would be as wrong as all the made up stuff about Nimrod under the name of Gilgamesh.

And angels never took on human flesh either. That is as much a made up story as Gilgamesh. The half god, aliens, different beings is all hogwash from Satan. The sons of God were created on the 6th Day. Adam was just one of the sons of God, God called out for a purpose, just like God called Abraham out for a purpose, 2,000 years later. After over ten generations, the offspring of the sons of God mixed married with Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Thus all humanity became corrupt, and the generations became more evil and wicked.