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Michiah-Imla

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sinless perfection crowd.

This is how corrupt, proud, and lost this generation is. They despise the “sinless perfectionist”.

“The shew of their face doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves. Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.” (Isaiah 3:9-10)

Keep declaring you are a sinner, bud…

Despite what the Bible says.

:hmhehm
 

Ronald Nolette

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This is how corrupt, proud, and lost this generation is. They despise the “sinless perfectionist”.

“The shew of their face doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves. Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.” (Isaiah 3:9-10)

Keep declaring you are a sinner, bud…

Despite what the Bible says.

:hmhehm
I don't desp[se them, I pity them actually.

They have to live in denial, excuses and all sorts of mental gymnastics in order to keep thinking they never sin 24/7/365
 
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mailmandan

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And sinless perfection is not a teaching from teh bible. so if a teacher teaches it- they are teaching unbiblical truth.
Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)
 

Michiah-Imla

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Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

Another copy and paste text. You might as well be a bot.

But your canned message is against what the scriptures say:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” (John 14:12)

Why don’t you believe this scripture?
 

marks

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Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)
Or maybe just a lack of self-awareness. Or maybe it's their personal understanding of just what sin is. I've come accross those who have lied about me to discredit me as I present Scripture that shows we will have to deal with out contrary flesh until we are transformed into our incorruptible bodies.

I've been railed at and accused of various manner of sin unjustly by those trying to defend their self-concept of sinlessness.

Cognitive Bias can account for this. If someone is of the notion that no sin is tolerated, and any sin causes you to be condemned, that's a big reason to define sin in some more friendly manner.

Much love!
 
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Behold

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In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action - a matter of practice.

IN those verses, as in Chapter 6, ..... as also found in Acts 28, you find Christ rejecting HEBREWS, in all three ...... not Born Again Christians (notice that) who are rejecting Paul's Gospel, which is "Christ is your Messiah".

CULTS, who are led by people who can't discern or teach anything in the NT correctly, falsely assign these verses written to CHRIST REJECTING HEBREWS (unsaved Jews) to the Born Again Christian.

Avoid anyone who teaches these verses in that regard, Mailmandan, as they are lying to you to try to deceive you.
 

Michiah-Imla

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not Born Again Christians (notice that) who are rejecting Paul's Gospel

What a silly statement.

Who is claiming that the “Born Again Christians” are rejecting the gospel????

falsely assign these verses written to CHRIST REJECTING HEBREWS (unsaved Jews) to the Born Again Christian.

You are falsely un-assigning verses written to Christians based on false doctrine.
 

mailmandan

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Or maybe just a lack of self-awareness. Or maybe it's their personal understanding of just what sin is. I've come accross those who have lied about me to discredit me as I present Scripture that shows we will have to deal with out contrary flesh until we are transformed into our incorruptible bodies.

I've been railed at and accused of various manner of sin unjustly by those trying to defend their self-concept of sinlessness.

Cognitive Bias can account for this. If someone is of the notion that no sin is tolerated, and any sin causes you to be condemned, that's a big reason to define sin in some more friendly manner.

Much love!
1 John 1:8 - if we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Those are statements of condemnation which are in contrast to - if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us ours sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
 
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Michiah-Imla

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if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us ours sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness

When you first confessed and believed in Christ, He cleansed you.

Now if you go rolling around in the mud of sin again you are defiled once again.

You cannot mock Christ, put him to an open shame, and trample him under feet by confessing again.

You cannot prove otherwise @mailmandan , you can only pull out more gainsaying text from your toolbox.

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)

“…who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:29)

EVERYONE:

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” (Galatians 6:7-8)
 

Behold

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Who is claiming that the “Born Again Christians” are rejecting the gospel????

Every Cross Rejecting fool who teaches that Hebrews 10:26 is talking to the born again.

These deceived people read..."if you sin willfully".......which is Paul talking to Christ Rejecting HEBREWS who are rejecting His Gospel......and they flip those verses, twist those verses written to UNSAVED JEWS, and teach them as :"See you can do that and lose your salvation".

So, its that FOOL im talking to, Michiah-Imla.

That one.
 
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Michiah-Imla

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Every Cross Rejecting fool who teaches that Hebrews 10:26 is talking to the born again.

:jest:

Proof that you lost the debate. Hurling insults with no scriptural evidence.

You claim that Hebrews 10:26 is not written to the born again Christian.

Well then please explain to all of us why the writer included HIMSELF in the warning:

“For if WE sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

If WE Christians sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth (Jesus!) there remains no more sacrifice for your new willful sin!

You attempt to subvert the brethren from the means for obtaining perfection like @mailmandan and @Ronald Nolette

Because:

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
 

mailmandan

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IN those verses, as in Chapter 6, ..... as also found in Acts 28, you find Christ rejecting HEBREWS, in all three ...... not Born Again Christians (notice that) who are rejecting Paul's Gospel, which is "Christ is your Messiah".

CULTS, who are led by people who can't discern or teach anything in the NT correctly, falsely assign these verses written to CHRIST REJECTING HEBREWS (unsaved Jews) to the Born Again Christian.

Avoid anyone who teaches these verses in that regard, Mailmandan, as they are lying to you to try to deceive you.
Confusing Christ rejecting Hebrews with common born again Christians in those passages of scripture is a common error that is made by false teachers in false religions and cults who promote salvation by works and sinless perfection. You don't have to worry about me. I am not easily fooled by liars and deceivers who troll Christian forum sites.

In regards to Hebrews 6:4-6, the words, once enlightened, which means to shed light upon in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.

In regards to partakers of the Holy Spirit, the word translated “partaker” can certainly refer to a saving partaking in Christ, as we read in Hebrews 3:14, yet it can also refer to a less than saving association or participation. See Luke 5:7 and Hebrews 1:9 - "comrades, companions," which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. These Hebrews who fell away had obviously in some aspect shared in the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but in what way?

Those who fall away have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come, yet simply tasted and stopped there. People who have experienced these positive factors mentioned in Hebrews 6:4-6 is not enough to give conclusive evidence that the beginning stages of the Christian life (repentance unto life, regeneration, salvation, justification, sealed by the Holy Spirit etc..) have taken place for those who fell away. These individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and temporarily responded to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead unbelievers to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" which is the guarantee of future inheritance. Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)

In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." We do not merely "taste" into one Spirit but drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)

In regards to fall away, in Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. Those who permanently fall away demonstrate they were not truly born again. (1 John 2:19)

In regards to renew them again unto repentance, this does not specify whether the repentance was merely outward or genuine accompanied by saving faith. They have in some sense "repented," there may be sorrow for sins and an attempt to turn from them (moral self-reformation) that non-believers can experience. There is repentance that falls short of salvation, which is clear from Hebrews 12:7 and the reference to Esau, as well as the repentance of Judas Iscariot in Matthew 27:3. Paul refers to a repentance “without regret that leads to salvation,” which shows there is a repentance that does not lead to salvation. As with “belief/faith”, so too with “repentance,” we must always distinguish between what is substantial and results in salvation and what is spurious. Renew them again "unto salvation" would be conclusive evidence otherwise.

In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. We read in scripture that good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that the writer of Hebrews is talking about people who are not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.

Now if the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation here.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then we would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

In regards to Galatians 6:7-8, the one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt, sinful nature which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Romans 8:5 - For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body isdead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
 

mailmandan

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Every Cross Rejecting fool who teaches that Hebrews 10:26 is talking to the born again.

These deceived people read..."if you sin willfully".......which is Paul talking to Christ Rejecting HEBREWS who are rejecting His Gospel......and they flip those verses, twist those verses written to UNSAVED JEWS, and teach them as :"See you can do that and lose your salvation".

So, its that FOOL im talking to, Michiah-Imla.

That one.
Throughout the book of Hebrews, we see Christ rejecting Hebrews mixed in with genuine Christian Hebrews, just like on Christian forum sites and in various churches, we see pseudo Christians mixed in with genuine Christians.

In Hebrews 4:1-2, For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but DID NOT MIX FAITH with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Those who fall away have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come, yet simply tasted and stopped there.

Is that what the inspired writer of Hebrews did @mailmandan ?

Just taste and stopped?

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Is the “we” not saved @mailmandan ?

Or are you going to be a coward and just copy and paste more of your heresy?

More of your multitude of words to dilute the discussion with your sectarian garbage?

“…a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.” (Ecclesiastes 5:3)
 

mailmandan

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Trolls are known for their insults and slander. Now although the writer includes himself in this warning (if we sin willfully) note that he switches pronouns in Hebrews 10:29 to "he" and at the end of the chapter (Hebrews 10:39) the writer makes it clear that he considers himself a genuine believer by including himself in the "we" who do not "draw back to perdition." But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

For further study see - Hebrews 10:26-27 Commentary | Precept Austin
 

Michiah-Imla

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Trolls are known for their insults and slander.

What are scripture deniers known for?

And prove the slander. I have stated facts with scripture. You have denied scripture with looong explanations.

Now although the writer includes himself in this warning (if we sin willfully) note that he switches pronouns in Hebrews 10:29 to "he"

How about this one @mailmandan :

“And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away…” (Colossians 1:21-23)

And what will happen to us if we move away?

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame…” (Hebrews 6:4-7)
 

mailmandan

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What are scripture deniers known for?
You should ask yourself that question.

And prove the slander.
I already have but only those who have eyes to see will see it.

I have stated facts with scripture. You have denied scripture with looong explanations.
You have stated your bias. I have stated facts and have properly harmonized scripture with scripture in my "thorough" explanations before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

How about this one @mailmandan :

“And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away…” (Colossians 1:21-23)
How about it? You are always looking for that "gotcha" moment that never happens. :rolleyes:

And what will happen to us if we move away?
Those who move away demonstrate that their faith was NOT grounded and settled to begin with. Just as we see in 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast (demonstrative evidence of faith being firmly rooted and established) that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).

Now in regards to Colossians 1:23 - ..if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. The word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith." Continuance would show that the person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really have been reconciled. The form of this phrase indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose profession of faith does not continue?

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who "profess" to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation here that they will be saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that their faith is in fact grounded in the gospel and they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their spurious faith was not grounded in the gospel to begin with.

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame…” (Hebrews 6:4-7)
This has already been thoroughly explained to you in post #33.
 

Michiah-Imla

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bias. I have stated facts and have properly harmonized scripture with scripture in my "thorough" explanations before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

You have “harmonized” scripture with heresy.

Those who move away demonstrate that their faith was NOT grounded and settled to begin with

What kind of madness are you peddling here?

Paul warned us not to be moved away from our grounded and settled state!!!

This is the kind of craziness these ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED peddlers engage in…

If me and @mailmandan were taking cover in a building from a danger outside, and I warned @mailmandan not to go outside, but then he ignores my warning and gets injured outside - this means that @mailmandan was never inside the building to begin with!!!!

:jest:
 
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Behold

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Proof that you lost the debate.

You are debating, in your own head.
Im just highlighting you for the benefit of the real believers.
Its what i do with dark lights who troll my Threads.
See it yet?
You're just one more typical example, Michiah-Imla
Just one more.
You provide that service on my Threads.
And you'll do it again, as how can you not?