What Christ said in John 14:1-3 totally debunks your position. So it is you who has to take it up with Him.
The Rapture vs. the Pre-tribulational Rapture
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If you think those "mansions" mean up in the sky somewhere off the earth, then sorry to say brother, but those who taught you that show they haven't studied their Bible for theirself anymore than you have. And I say that out of love, because I want you to understand God's Word as written, and not men's doctrines loosely based on The Bible.
John 14:1-3
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
KJV
The Greek for "mansions" above means 'abodes'. And The "Father's house" is the future Millennial temple that will exist ON EARTH for Christ's future reign of Rev.20.
This is WHY Zechariah 14 revels Jesus RETURNING BACK TO THE EARTH WITH HIS SAINTS, to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from.
Ezek 40:45-46
45 And he said unto me, "This chamber, whose prospect is toward the south, is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the house.
46 And the chamber whose prospect is toward the north is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar: these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, which come near to the LORD to minister unto Him.
KJV
There it is above, The Father's house that Lord Jesus was speaking of in John 14. It is being described starting in Ezekiel 40 through 47. The name "Zadok" means The Just. And Lord Jesus is a Priest forever after the order of Melchizedek (King of The Just, per Hebrews 7).
Not realizing the above Ezekiel Scripture is what Lord Jesus was pointing to reveals a PROBLEM with many of today's Churches that won't teach Bible line upon line, chapter by chapter. Some Churches today even wrongly think everything written in the Old Testament Books is past history, which is just a show of ignorance, because there's still much prophecy written in the Old Testament prophets that has yet to come to pass today. So lack of Old Testament study, especially in God's prophets, shows up real... easy with those who have not done their homework. Study to show thyself approved of God, a workman that need not be ashamed, Paul told Timothy.
The elect that are referred to as being gathered in verse 31 are not the church; they are the great multitude of people that live through the great tribulation, mentioned in Revelation 7 (WEB):
(13) One of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are arrayed in the white robes, who are they, and from where did they come?”
(14) I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, “These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb’s blood.
Christians from the gospel age, those that live up to the rapture/first resurrection, have already been changed to spirit beings and are living in heaven before the events of the great tribulation. In the above verses, the person speaking to John is one of the 24 elders, who symbolically represent the resurrected Church. John recognised those and associated himself with them (Rev 1:6 - "made us kings and priests to God and His Father"), but he didn't know who the great multitude were, and it had to be explained to him.
As has already been pointed out by others ealier in this thread, the Church does not go through the Great Tribulation:
Colossians 3:5-6
(5) Put to death therefore your members which are on the earth: sexual immorality, uncleanness, depraved passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry;
(6) for which things’ sake the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. [But not on the Church.]
Romans 5:9
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.
1 Thessalonians 1:10(10) and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 5:9(9) For God didn’t appoint us to wrath, but to the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
The resurrected Church is in heaven observing Jesus take the scroll and open the seven seals, and pour out his and God's wrath on those living on the earth - the Great Tribulation. Revelation 6 (WEB):
(16) They told the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,
(17) for the great day of his wrath has come; and who is able to stand?”
Jesus and God don't have wrath for the Church, members of the body of Christ, and God's adopted sons. They have nothing but love for the Church, so it is unreasonable to suppose that God would make the Church go through the Great Tirbulation. There are even Old Testament allusions to the Church being removed from the earth before God pours out his wrath on the earth, e.g. Zephaniah 2:3 (WEB):
Seek Yahweh, all you humble of the land, who have kept his ordinances. Seek righteousness. Seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden in the day of Yahweh’s anger.
The church will be hidden during the day of God's wrath - the Great Tribulation.Another example, or type, is Enoch, who was caught up (raptured) before the tribulation of the flood - prophetic of the church being raptured before the Great Tribulation.
I'm sure your preacher would want you to think that, but the Matthew 24:31 verse is the direct parallel to the 1 Thessalonians 4:14-15 Scripture about Jesus bringing the 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes.
But of course one would FIRST have to actually read that Matthew 24:31 verse to understand that, because it shows those saints are gathered FROM HEAVEN, which means they are already there when Jesus gathers those, and He simply brings them with Him when He comes.
Matt 24:31
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV
In the Mark 13:27 version of that, the angels Jesus sends gather the alive saints FROM THE EARTH, which is a direct parallel to the 1 Thessalonians 4:17 verse.
Mark 13:27
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV
So it was Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 that was covering WHAT JESUS HAD ALREADY TAUGHT IN HIS OLIVET DISCOURSE ABOUT THE CHURCH BEING GATHERED, not the other way around like you say.
That above Scripture you are pulling from, Revelation 7, the whole chapter is about those whom God seals in prep for the "great tribulation". That is HOW those came out of great tribulation by overcoming through Christ, not... escaping. The 144,000 sealed represent those of the seed of Israel that are sealed in prep for the trib, and the "great multitude" of Rev.7:9 forward represent the sealed Gentiles that will go through the trib and overcome in Christ Jesus. And the Rev.7:11-17 verses are ALL... showing a FUTURE FORWARD VIEW for AFTER Jesus' future return. This kind of sectional description with showing the seed of Israel, and then the Gentiles, happens in the Books of God's prophets. Most don't catch that there in Rev.7 because they're too lazy to study their Old Testament history.
No such thing as Dispensationalist "Church Ages". That idea was devised by men, and is not in God's Word.
The 24 elders of Rev.4 & 5 are NOT shown having been resurrected during this present world time. The view given there is a FUTURE VIEW AFTER Christ's future return, because ONLY THEN will those gold crowns they have be handed out...
Rev 4:4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
KJV
So already when you pre-tribbers read in Rev.4 you are already in error, because you have missed what 'timing' that is about. NO ONE receives the rewards from Christ until His future return.
And even in Rev.5, you should have caught this which shows the timeline there is FUTURE after Jesus has returned...
Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."
KJV
So the 24 elders are already MADE KINGS AND PRIESTS while the rest of the Church has not? No, no brother, it doesn't work that way, because the kings and priests idea is for the world to come only. One should easily know that (Revelation 20:6).
Christ Church DOES GO THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION, by your just saying it does not proves nothing. That Colossians 3 Scripture doesn't prove a pre-trib rapture either. Apostle Paul explained in 1 Thessalonians 5 who God's wrath is upon, and WHEN it will happen, and IT IS NOT DURING THE GREAT TRIB.
1 Thess 5:3
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
KJV
The wicked and deceived will be thinking they are in a time of world peace on earth during the "great tribulation". Your money-grubbing spokesmen like Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye don't teach what The Bible actually shows about the time of the "great tribulation". They instead received their monies by tricking those deceived on pre-trib theory into thinking the trib is going to be a time of all out chaos and war. Not what Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 24:6.
There again, you aren't paying attention to what Apostle Paul taught in 2 Thessalonians 2 about the timeline of Christ's future return and gathering of His Church. Pre-trib theory only teaches how to abuse short verse examples like the above, taking them out of their Chapter context.
So how is it that Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 taught that Jesus returns to gather His Church AFTER... the working of the Antichrist, which HAS to mean the tribulation is going on when that Antichrist is working?
2 Thess 2:1-4
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV
That final Antichrist is not here on earth yet. He is set to show up in Jerusalem and be crowned king and Messiah by the orthodox Jews. And he will cause a new stone temple to be built in Jerusalem, as today's Jews already have the materials ready to build it. They will startup sacrifices again there. Then that Antichrist will end their daily sacrifices, and instead place the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in the temple that Jesus warned about, and the Antichrist will exalt himself as God over the whole earth. THAT... is when the "great tribulation" will begin. As Paul shows above, what ends that Antichrist's false working is Lord Jesus' coming!
2 Thess 2:8-9
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
KJV
So why haven't you believed Apostle Paul there, since you like to quote him in those other verses?
I don't have time to respond to the rest of your post, which is just more of the same, taking Scripture out of context.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Misunderstanding of Scripture is how pre-trib rapture 'pops-up' and becomes a sensational doctrine that is false.
It begins, as you say thru separation = pre-trib rapture divides His Second Coming into two.
The Scripture never does this = God is not the author of confusion.
Man's intellectual/religious intervention upon the Scripture always confuses and divides = pre-trib rapture a perfect example of this.
The Holy Spirit never separates the Coming of the LORD into two Returns/Coming's
EXAMPLE (A) = Matt ch24 = Only One Second Coming spoken by the LORD
Pre-trib explains away, divides from Scripture, the Second Coming of Christ in Matthew ch24.
There is no pre-trib rapture ever spoken by God so the pre-trib theorist must interject their own words upon God's words.
pre-trib Example (Matt ch24) : "Jesus is not speaking to His Church/Elect/Saints but is speaking to Jews/Israel".
Pre-trib goes directly against the very words of Christ and the Holy Scripture.
This is just one example and you will see that in every place pre-trib rapture is claimed it is only the words of men and never the Word of God.
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
keithr,
What makes you think that the 'elect' in Matt ch24 is not the Church.?
i read your post but you did not show forth any Scripture that divides the elect from His Body = the Saints.
Revelation ch1
Also, those of us who are presently in Christ have already been made into kings and priests.
John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
What makes you think that the 'elect' in Matt ch24 is not the Church.?
i read your post but you did not show forth any Scripture that divides the elect from His Body = the Saints.
Revelation ch1
Also, those of us who are presently in Christ have already been made into kings and priests.
John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You have misunderstood the verse because of the ambiguous KJV translation. The word translated as heaven can also be translated (more apropriately in this case) as sky. It says "from the four winds", an expression that means everywhere on the earth, e.g. :
Jeremiah 49:36 (WEB):
(36) I will bring on Elam the four winds from the four quarters of the sky, and will scatter them toward all those winds. There will be no nation where the outcasts of Elam will not come.
Zechariah 2:6 (WEB):(6) Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,’ says Yahweh; ‘for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the sky,’ says Yahweh.
So the expression used in Matthew 24:31 (WEB):
(31) He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
means that the chosen ones will be gathered from all over the earth. It is not referring to gathering people that are in heaven. The same applies to Mark 13:27, which the WEB translates as:
(27) Then he will send out his angels, and will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the sky.
and the GNB translates as:
(27) He will send the angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather God's chosen people from one end of the world to the other.
The 1 Thessalonians 4 passage is different. There is no sending out of angels to gather people, instead Jesus alone descends from heaven to the earth, the dead Christians are then resurrected, then all the living Christians are instantly snatched up and changed "in the twinkling of an eye " (1 Corinthians 15:52) to join them. There are no angels involved. The Matthew and Mark verses also mention nothing about dead Christians being resurrected. The Matthew passage refers to "(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days ..." but the 1 Thessalonians 4 passage doesn't mention that.
The vision of the Great Multitude, who have "come out of great tribulation", occurs after the opening of the sixth seal and before the opening of the seventh seal, when even more tribulation comes upon the earth. Jesus's second coming to the earth, and the outpouring of his and God's wrath, starts with the opening of the first seal. As Paul said concerning Jesus' second coming, 1Thessalonians 4:14 (WEB):
(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
so the resurrection and rapture that Paul then describes must precede Jesus' second coming/presence.
Christ's return is detailed in later chapters, which occurs after the 24 elders are said to be sitting on their thrones. They would not be in heaven, in God's throne room, sitting on thrones and wearing crowns if they had not been resurrected and changed. The sealing of the 144,000 and the great multitude being taken up to heaven occurs after that.
The Church is resurected and receive their rewards before Jesus' second coming. They come with him, and have joint heirship of his kingdom. 2 Timothy 2:11-12 (WEB):
(11) This saying is trustworthy: “For if we died with him, we will also live with him.
(12) If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he also will deny us.
1 Thessalonians 3:13 (WEB):(13) to the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.
The "Great Multitude" is not "the rest of the Church". The Church are members of the body and bride of Jesus, the Great Multitude become servants to God. You have confused two different groups of people, which have different eternal destinies. You cannot become a member of the Church after the first resurrection and rapture has taken place. The parable of the 10 virgins tells us that. If you are an unwise virgin and you miss the return of the bridegroom, then you also miss out on the wedding.
Matthew 25:10-13 (WEB):
(10) While they went away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut.
(11) Afterward the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us.’
(12) But he answered, ‘Most certainly I tell you, I don’t know you.’
(13) Watch therefore, for you don’t know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
I don't know who those people are.
That is an illogical deduction. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 (WEB):
(6) Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.
(7) For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way.
It is the Holy Spirit that restrains him. The holy Spirit is in the members of the Church. When the Church is raptured then the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way". The tribulation cannot start until the Holy Spirit/Church is taken away.
The Church hasn't been raptured yet either.
And he brings his saints with him! Once again, 1 Thessalonians 3:13 (WEB):
(13) to the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.
I do believe the apostle Paul!
Actually Jesus was speaking to his diciples only - Matthew 24:3 (WEB):
(3) As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? What is the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
YES keithr = 100% TRUTH = Thank You
Who were His Disciples?
What does the Holy Spirit/Scripture declare them to be?
Matthew 24:29 (WEB):
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
That seems to me to be describing events after the great Tribulation has started. Revelation 4 - 7 indicates that the Church has already been resurrected before then - the 24 elders are sitting on thrones and wearing crowns before the Great Tribulation starts.
When John wrote Revelation 1:6 (WEB):
(6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
he was not at that time a king and priest. He was saying that Jesus has destined us to become kings and priests. What follows that was a revelation from God of future events.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Dear keithr,
Let us take on scripture one at a time and allow the Holy Spirit to show us His answer = from Scripture.
Matt ch24 - His Disciples = Who does the Scripture declare them to be?
a.) only Jews/Israel of the flesh pertaining to the earthbound Israel
b.) Christ's Elect
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
We can discover from scripture your approach here but first we need to discover the Truth of Matt ch24/Disciples
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
ONLY CHRISTS ELECT . All scriptures pertain to the believer . Er word JESUS ever said feeds our souls .
HIS WORDS , HOWEVER will be the judge of every gentile and jew who rejected Him . THEY WILL ALL BE JUDGED
on the last day . There are not two groups of the elect , NOR is any who are not of CHRIST the ELECT .
THIS is a fact . GOD has chosen HOW to save the world . THE JEW AND THE GENTILE . AND that is
BY THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL . ALL who reject CHRIST as MESSIAH , AS SAVOIR , AS THE ONLY
WAY TO GOD , the ONLY NAME WHEREBY ONE MAY be saved WILL FACE THE WRATH OF GOD and of the LAMB
who treads THE GREAT WINEPRESS OF THE WRATH OF ALL MIGHTY GOD .
FOLKS are abandoning the one true gospel in hopes of some fairy tale love that will save none and will
hold all accountable UNTO GOD and UNTO HIS CHRIST on the DAY of judgment .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.
You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
These things I command you, that you love one another.
John ch15
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Its due to the teachings of men who hold to certain view points we have such a mess within christendom .
Always they twist and abandon the scrips and says oh that part applied only to the jew
or this or that all to defend mens teachings .
TIME we just know and understand the gospels were written FOR THE CHURCH to read and to learn
and that er WORD of JESUS was meant to be taught , embrace , loved and obeyed .
Same for the letters of the apostels . THEY WERE WRITING THEM to BELIELVERS.
FEAST ON ER WORD and do not pick and choose what to beleive , BELIEVE IT ALL , EMBRACE IT ALL
LOVE IT ALL and LEARN IT WELL
Always they twist and abandon the scrips and says oh that part applied only to the jew
or this or that all to defend mens teachings .
TIME we just know and understand the gospels were written FOR THE CHURCH to read and to learn
and that er WORD of JESUS was meant to be taught , embrace , loved and obeyed .
Same for the letters of the apostels . THEY WERE WRITING THEM to BELIELVERS.
FEAST ON ER WORD and do not pick and choose what to beleive , BELIEVE IT ALL , EMBRACE IT ALL
LOVE IT ALL and LEARN IT WELL
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
When Matthew uses the term "his disciples" he was normally referring to Jesus' 12 disciples, who Jesus chose, and who were all Jews (one of whom went on to betray him, and was therefore not one of God's elect).
John 8:31 (WEB):
Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples.
Israel was God's elect (Isaiah 45:4). The elect (chosen ones) are chosen by God, not Jesus. Christians are also chosen by God - Colossians 3:12 (MKJV):
(12) Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender feelings of mercy, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long-suffering,
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
These same disciples that ask Jesus: "what will be the sign of Your coming and the end of the age?" were given a specific designation by God.
John 3:25-29
Then a dispute arose between John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the issue of ceremonial washing. So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”
John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’ The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom stands and listens for him, and is overjoyed to hear the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. He must increase; I must decrease.
The elect of God, His chosen disciples are His Bride.
His Bride began the very day HE chose them and continuing Today for all HE continues to elect till His Second Coming.
@keithr you are 100% correct that God chooses His Elect = SEE here John 15:16
"You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. These things I command you, that you love one another."
@keithr the Elect of God are Believers in Christ = the Saints - 1 Peter 1:1-5
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience
and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
Therefore, as the elect of God, -Colossians ch3
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I guarantee I have not... misunderstood the Matthew 24 verse. And the KJV translation is still the MOST ACCURATE translation in English to this day. It was translated from the Traditional Greek text which many other English translations before it were also translated.
The Critical text that you... refer to as better than the KJV is a CORRUPT Greek translation from completely different manuscripts which are rare and don't even agree with each other as much. Wescott and Hort, 19th century British scholars, made a new Greek translation from those manuscripts that are corrupt which their origins still have yet to be verified.
So much for your anti-KJV rhetoric.
And if you were to do a Bible study on what the "four winds" actually are, you'd find out they are in connection with God's Spirit, and NOT simple air that blows upon the earth like in the sky.
Ezek 37:9-10
9 Then He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, 'Thus says the Lord God: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.'”
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
ESV
There, I even used the ESV translation which is based on Wescott and Hort's new Greek New Testament translation!
Is just like I showed from Ezekiel 37 above, about God's Spirit, and that is what Christ was pointing to in Matthew 24:31 with the 'asleep' saints being gathered from one end of HEAVEN to the other. That Matthew 24:31 example is NOT about a rapture. Jesus brings those 'asleep' saints with Him like Paul said, remember?
1 Thess 4:13-15
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
KJV
Apparently, you don't remember Scripture too well, otherwise you would not have forgotten what Paul said above about the 'asleep' saints, which is what Jesus was talking about in the Matthew 24:31 verse, those gathered "...from one end of Heaven to the other."
No, the 1 Thessalonians 4 Scripture is NOT different, because Paul was emphatic as I showed that Jesus will bring the "asleep" saints with Him FROM HEAVEN, not from the earth! That is EXACTLY what Jesus showed in the Matthew 24:31 verse, that group of saints being gathered from end of Heaven to the other.
In the Mark 13:27 version, these, a second group still alive on earth, are gathered FROM THE EARTH, then to Heaven...
Mark 13:27
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV
That is what you guys call a 'rapture' (what Apostle Paul and myself call being "caught up"). Thus the 'asleep' saints are NOT raptured, because the Biblical idea of being raptured is ONLY for those still alive ON EARTH. How could you not know this?
Thusly, what Jesus taught in His Olivet discourse about the gathering of His saints is the SAME THINGS that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonian 4. And I have SHOWN YOU the Scripture, but YOU REJECT THE SCRIPTURE AS WRITTEN.
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