The Rapture vs. the Pre-tribulational Rapture

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,871
2,919
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
This is what 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (WEB) says:

(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,​
(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.​

That sure sounds to me like Jesus does come to the earth (or at least to the air above the earth, among the clouds).
So they will be meeting the Lord in the Holy Spirit in fact.
The worthy will be caught up in together his Majesty !

Spiritual speaking, they who have passed away and who are alive are caught up in his Majesty to meet the Lord Christ Jesus in the Holy Spirit !

Caught up means Involved ?

So They who are of Christ Jesus = "His" regardless of having past away or living in the flesh body ? are Involved to meet the Lord Christ Jesus in the Holy Spirit !
This is on about Souls ? Souls that are connected ! to Christ Jesus.
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,546
413
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
So they will be meeting the Lord in the Holy Spirit in fact.
The worthy will be caught up in together his Majesty !

Spiritual speaking, they who have passed away and who are alive are caught up in his Majesty to meet the Lord Christ Jesus in the Holy Spirit !

Caught up means Involved ?

So They who are of Christ Jesus = "His" regardless of having past away or living in the flesh body ? are Involved to meet the Lord Christ Jesus in the Holy Spirit !
This is on about Souls ? Souls that are connected ! to Christ Jesus.
It is totally illogical and fanciful to interpret 1 Thess. 4:17 in that way! What supporting evidence do you have to make you think that is the correct interpretation? What other verses use the words 'air' and 'clouds' in the same manner?

The word 'air' only occurs 11 times in the whole Bible, so it is quick and easy to see that none of those occurrences of the word 'air' can be interpreted to mean "The Holy Spirit". Likewise I can't spot any verses using the word cloud or clouds where it could be interpreted as "His majesty". You're deluding yourself.

As Tommy Cool said,
God means what He says and says what He means
and all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16, WEB: "Every Scripture is God-breathed"). What did the two angels say at Jesus' ascension? Acts 1:11 (WEB):

(11) ... “You men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky, will come back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky.”​

The disciples saw Jesus rising up into the sky. When he returns for the Church, his bride, he will in the same manner descend from the sky, and the resurrected and those alive "will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air".

Matthew 26:64 (WEB):
(64) Jesus said to him, “You have said it. Nevertheless, I tell you, after this you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of the sky.”​
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tommy Cool

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,176
2,384
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All our eschatology are mere guesses...

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:43-44
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,546
413
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Sorry, what is the pre-tribulation rapture? Thanks. I looked it up and got the idea that the rapture is when the chosen ones are all collected, right?
Yes, it's referring to the Christians who are alive when the first resurrection takes place. The dead in Christ are resurrected as spirit beings, and the Christians still alive will be changed to become spirit beings and caught up to join the resurrected Christians and Jesus amongst the clouds in the sky. From that point they/we will be forever with Jesus. The "pre-tribulation" part is referring to the timing of the rapture. Some, like me, believe that the rapture will take place before the great tribulation (mentioned in Revelation 6), whereas some Christians believe it will occur after or during the great tribulation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thelord's_pearl

Tommy Cool

Active Member
Jul 17, 2022
316
198
43
HIGHLAND,MI
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You have no Spiritual understanding then do you. Such is coming from a one who is clearly totally carnal. I could get some idiot carnal dupe picked up from the street and such would see it as you see such. Truly ! just go out and ask such a one.

When one understands or has a handle on understanding Hebrew History and how the interpret from Hebrew etc is translated into English you may understand better what is truly being translated.

Biblical Cloud relates to Gods Majesty and Air relates to the Holy Spirit in fact.
I am not your enemy…. We are all members of the body of Christ …and the true enemy would like nothing more than to have us destroy each other from within.

I have no problem with members of the body disagreeing with me …”iron sharpens iron”. But……… And you can take this for what it’s worth ... When someone resorts to personal attacks (be it here, or in the world) it is generally recognized in two ways….Either it’s a reflection of themselves ….or they have run out of ammunition (useful information).
So, no matter how stupid you think I, or someone else is, try to refrain from personal attacks…try a different approach, as the intended results not what you think. …. and keep in mind, the majority of people here are your brother and sisters in Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cassandra

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,871
2,919
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I am not your enemy…. We are all members of the body of Christ …and the true enemy would like nothing more than to have us destroy each other from within.

I have no problem with members of the body disagreeing with me …”iron sharpens iron”. But……… And you can take this for what it’s worth ... When someone resorts to personal attacks (be it here, or in the world) it is generally recognized in two ways….Either it’s a reflection of themselves ….or they have run out of ammunition (useful information).
So, no matter how stupid you think I, or someone else is, try to refrain from personal attacks…try a different approach, as the intended results not what you think. …. and keep in mind, the majority of people here are your brother and sisters in Christ.
Grow up it's not a personal attack.
 

Cassandra

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2021
2,631
2,995
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Grow up it's not a personal attack.
He was being kind. Telling him what you told him was a personal attack, I thought when i read it.. "You have no Spiritual understanding then do you. Such is coming from a one who is clearly totally carnal. I could get some idiot carnal dupe picked up from the street and such would see it as you see such. Truly ! just go out and ask such a one." And you do, of course have spiritual understanding, right?
 

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,871
2,919
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
It is totally illogical and fanciful to interpret 1 Thess. 4:17 in that way! What supporting evidence do you have to make you think that is the correct interpretation? What other verses use the words 'air' and 'clouds' in the same manner?

The word 'air' only occurs 11 times in the whole Bible, so it is quick and easy to see that none of those occurrences of the word 'air' can be interpreted to mean "The Holy Spirit". Likewise I can't spot any verses using the word cloud or clouds where it could be interpreted as "His majesty". You're deluding yourself.

As Tommy Cool said,

and all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16, WEB: "Every Scripture is God-breathed"). What did the two angels say at Jesus' ascension? Acts 1:11 (WEB):

(11) ... “You men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky, will come back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky.”​

The disciples saw Jesus rising up into the sky. When he returns for the Church, his bride, he will in the same manner descend from the sky, and the resurrected and those alive "will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air".

Matthew 26:64 (WEB):
(64) Jesus said to him, “You have said it. Nevertheless, I tell you, after this you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of the sky.”​
Religious people are carnal. One who play's the religious are most, because they are not truly saved, born again of the Holy Spirit.
Religion never saved anyone's Soul in fact.
Even the Atheist is religious.
Look at the stupid Jews they are religious dupes as well, for they do not know Salvation, for they are Lost, only the Jews who looked to Moses were worthy of God and so they came to Jesus and became the first Christians.

When I go to a Church it's never ending the Carnal rubbish that does not inspire anything to do with Salvation at all but only Carnal nonsense, mans works dribble.

Do you think that Christ Jesus is coming like monkey Magic.
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,546
413
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Religious people are carnal. One who play's the religious are most, because they are not truly saved, born again of the Holy Spirit.
Religion never saved anyone's Soul in fact.
Even the Atheist is religious.
Look at the stupid Jews they are religious dupes as well, for they do not know Salvation, for they are Lost, only the Jews who looked to Moses were worthy of God and so they came to Jesus and became the first Christians.

When I go to a Church it's never ending the Carnal rubbish that does not inspire anything to do with Salvation at all but only Carnal nonsense, mans works dribble.

Do you think that Christ Jesus is coming like monkey Magic.
I asked if you had any supporting Biblical evidence, and you respond by insulting the Jews and asking a stupid question. So from that I take it that you have no Biblical evidence to support your claims.

As for the Jews being stupid, that is God's work - Romans 11:8 (WEB):

(8) According as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, to this very day.”​

Those whom God calls and gives understanding of the Scriptures is also God's work. Romans 11:5-6 (WEB):

(5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant [of Jews] according to the election of grace.​
(6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.​

The faith and belief of all Christians is a free gift from God - Ephesians 2:8 (WEB):

(8) for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,​

If you have been saved by the grace of God then you should not then insult and attack those that have not yet received similar grace from God. You should be always harmless and loving towards everyone:

Matthew 10:16
(16) “Behold, I send you out as sheep among wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.​
John 15:12
(12) “This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you.​
1 Thessalonians 3:11-13
(11) Now may our God and Father himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you;​
(12) and the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we also do toward you,​
(13) to the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.​
 

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,871
2,919
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I asked if you had any supporting Biblical evidence, and you respond by insulting the Jews and asking a stupid question. So from that I take it that you have no Biblical evidence to support your claims.

As for the Jews being stupid, that is God's work - Romans 11:8 (WEB):

(8) According as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, to this very day.”​

Those whom God calls and gives understanding of the Scriptures is also God's work. Romans 11:5-6 (WEB):

(5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant [of Jews] according to the election of grace.​
(6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.​

The faith and belief of all Christians is a free gift from God - Ephesians 2:8 (WEB):

(8) for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,​

If you have been saved by the grace of God then you should not then insult and attack those that have not yet received similar grace from God. You should be always harmless and loving towards everyone:

Matthew 10:16
(16) “Behold, I send you out as sheep among wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.​
John 15:12
(12) “This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you.​
1 Thessalonians 3:11-13
(11) Now may our God and Father himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you;​
(12) and the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we also do toward you,​
(13) to the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.​
Fact is the Jews etc and all un saved born again Christians are Carnal dupes in fact, that's the bottom line, do you understand that fact !
When the worthy Jews who had faith in Jesus and then came to know he was the Christ Jesus they became the first Christians and were Saved, born again, do you understand that fact.

Outside of Christians who are truly born again the rest are nothing, they are not worthy of God at all in fact. Regardless ! only a carnal person would make statements otherwise.

I understand were you are at, you are carnal and you have only faith in so called Jews, who are carnal in fact, because they can not see ?

I am Jewish I can see ! and the Jews who had faith in Jesus were worthy of Moses and they came to see clearly who Christ Jesus was in the day ? They created Christianity in fact and No Goyim created Christianity.

What happened to the Jews was that the Rot set in and they the majority were lead astray, such crept in unawares ? did you know that.
Not to mention in Christianity the same workings prevail and it has set people off in the wrong direction seeking worldly works like the stupid duped Jews were led astray after workings of Man.

So some carnal dup would think Oh Reggie is bagging the Jews, well in fact Reggie is bagging you all, because such are carnal dupes.
So I ask where are you looking at ? Christ Jesus ! No ! you are looking to the so called Jews who are not worthy of being Jews in the first place in fact. They are of the idiots who rejected Jesus, turned their backs on him and killed him as all carnal people do in fact, because they do not know him at all. For they are only religious and religion never saved anyone ! Only Christ Jesus saves ones Soul ! outside of that there is nothing worthy of God in fact, because no one can come to God but only through his only begotten Son ! get that !

Now as to the worthy Jews of today ? You need reed all of Romans Chapter 11 bro. See who did not bowed their knees to Baal ?
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,546
413
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Fact is the Jews etc and all un saved born again Christians are Carnal dupes in fact, that's the bottom line, do you understand that fact !
When the worthy Jews who had faith in Jesus and then came to know he was the Christ Jesus they became the first Christians and were Saved, born again, do you understand that fact.
You call them "worthy" as though it was by their works that they had faith in Jesus, but the Scriptures says otherwise. To repeat, Romans 11:5-6 (WEB):

(5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.​
(6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. ...​

and Ephesians 2:8 (WEB):

(8) for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,​

All Christians are only Christians because God made them so. Your faith was given to you by God, however much you think it was your own decision. All others, who you refer to as carnal dupes, are only so because God made them so - it is all God's work. So you should have a more gentle, loving, compassionate attitude towards them. As Jesus said, Matthew 11:29 (WEB):

(29) ... learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; ...​

and Paul said, Philippians 2:1-4 (WEB):

(1) If therefore there is any exhortation in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any tender mercies and compassion,​
(2) make my joy full, by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind;​
(3) doing nothing through rivalry or through conceit, but in humility, each counting others better than himself;
(4) each of you not just looking to his own things, but each of you also to the things of others.​

John 6:44-45 (WEB):
(44) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.​
(45) It is written in the prophets, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who hears from the Father, and has learned, comes to me.​

Outside of Christians who are truly born again the rest are nothing, they are not worthy of God at all in fact. Regardless ! only a carnal person would make statements otherwise.

So some carnal dup would think Oh Reggie is bagging the Jews, well in fact Reggie is bagging you all, because such are carnal dupes.

Now as to the worthy Jews of today ? You need reed all of Romans Chapter 11 bro. See who did not bowed their knees to Baal ?
I have read all of Romans 11. Perhaps you should read all of Romans 3 (WEB):

(1) Then what advantage does the Jew have? Or what is the profit of circumcision?​
(2) Much in every way! Because first of all, they were entrusted with the revelations of God.​
(3) For what if some were without faith? Will their lack of faith nullify the faithfulness of God?​
(4) May it never be! Yes, let God be found true, but every man a liar. As it is written, “That you might be justified in your words, and might prevail when you come into judgment.”​
(5) But if our unrighteousness commends the righteousness of God, what will we say? Is God unrighteous who inflicts wrath? I speak like men do.​
(6) May it never be! For then how will God judge the world?​
(7) For if the truth of God through my lie abounded to his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?​
(8) Why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), “Let’s do evil, that good may come?” Those who say so are justly condemned.​
(9) What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously warned both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin.​
(10) As it is written, “There is no one righteous; no, not one.
(11) There is no one who understands. There is no one who seeks after God.​
(12) They have all turned away. They have together become unprofitable. There is no one who does good, no, not so much as one.”​
(13) “Their throat is an open tomb. With their tongues they have used deceit.”“The poison of vipers is under their lips;”​
(14) “whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”​
(15) “Their feet are swift to shed blood.​
(16) Destruction and misery are in their ways.​
(17) The way of peace, they haven’t known.”​
(18) “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”​
(19) Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God.​
(20) Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight. For through the law comes the knowledge of sin.​
(21) But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets;​
(22) even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction,
(23) for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;​
(24) being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;​
(25) whom God sent to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance;​
(26) to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus.​
(27) Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.​
(28) We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.​
(29) Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn’t he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,​
(30) since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith.​
(31) Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! No, we establish the law.​
 

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,871
2,919
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
You call them "worthy" as though it was by their works that they had faith in Jesus, but the Scriptures says otherwise. To repeat, Romans 11:5-6 (WEB):

(5) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.​
(6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. ...​

and Ephesians 2:8 (WEB):

(8) for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,​

All Christians are only Christians because God made them so. Your faith was given to you by God, however much you think it was your own decision. All others, who you refer to as carnal dupes, are only so because God made them so - it is all God's work. So you should have a more gentle, loving, compassionate attitude towards them. As Jesus said, Matthew 11:29 (WEB):

(29) ... learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; ...​

and Paul said, Philippians 2:1-4 (WEB):

(1) If therefore there is any exhortation in Christ, if any consolation of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any tender mercies and compassion,​
(2) make my joy full, by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind;​
(3) doing nothing through rivalry or through conceit, but in humility, each counting others better than himself;
(4) each of you not just looking to his own things, but each of you also to the things of others.​

John 6:44-45 (WEB):
(44) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.​
(45) It is written in the prophets, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who hears from the Father, and has learned, comes to me.​


I have read all of Romans 11. Perhaps you should read all of Romans 3 (WEB):

(1) Then what advantage does the Jew have? Or what is the profit of circumcision?​
(2) Much in every way! Because first of all, they were entrusted with the revelations of God.​
(3) For what if some were without faith? Will their lack of faith nullify the faithfulness of God?​
(4) May it never be! Yes, let God be found true, but every man a liar. As it is written, “That you might be justified in your words, and might prevail when you come into judgment.”​
(5) But if our unrighteousness commends the righteousness of God, what will we say? Is God unrighteous who inflicts wrath? I speak like men do.​
(6) May it never be! For then how will God judge the world?​
(7) For if the truth of God through my lie abounded to his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?​
(8) Why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), “Let’s do evil, that good may come?” Those who say so are justly condemned.​
(9) What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously warned both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin.​
(10) As it is written, “There is no one righteous; no, not one.
(11) There is no one who understands. There is no one who seeks after God.​
(12) They have all turned away. They have together become unprofitable. There is no one who does good, no, not so much as one.”​
(13) “Their throat is an open tomb. With their tongues they have used deceit.”“The poison of vipers is under their lips;”​
(14) “whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”​
(15) “Their feet are swift to shed blood.​
(16) Destruction and misery are in their ways.​
(17) The way of peace, they haven’t known.”​
(18) “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”​
(19) Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God.​
(20) Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight. For through the law comes the knowledge of sin.​
(21) But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets;​
(22) even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction,
(23) for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;​
(24) being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;​
(25) whom God sent to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance;​
(26) to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus.​
(27) Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.​
(28) We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.​
(29) Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn’t he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,​
(30) since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith.​
(31) Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! No, we establish the law.​
God calls them Jews Worthy in fact ! for without them there would not be any Christian Church Body in fact !
They were true Israelites in fact, they had faith in Moses and the rest did not, as the duped Jews followed the works of Man with no regards as to God at all in fact !

You are dismissing them Worthy Jews and 2000 years of history buster.
Typical of the new age so called Christian idiots who are looking for the Devil who will come, but they claim to be Jesus ? but they have rejected Christ Jesus in fact ! because fact is they have rejected Christ Jesus in fact !
They seek another ? just like the Golden Calf bastards did. They wanted to kill Moses ! For Jesus pointed such as them out for who they truly are in fact.

Jesus came and gave us everything that we needed in fact ! But who asks for the 2ed coming ? One who is not truly Saved ! why because he does not know the Lord Christ Jesus in fact, so the idiot is seeking ? but seeking what ! It's not Christ Jesus that's for sure.

Remember the point that Jesus will claim that he never knew such Christians ? Not worthy because they did not know him in fact, look around you and see the bastards in the churches, look at the history of the Churches, plenty of bastards who have not the Grace of Christ Jesus at all, but evil as they come ! child molesters for a start ! not to mention covered up for the churches sake :rolleyes: Nothing to do with God at all ! but a curse, that they inspire towards, saving face ! to who God, Christ Jesus, hell no ! too Man in fact ! Grubs ! out right grubs. not to mention all the grubs that bow down to such grubs that dominate the Church in fact.
It's in your face ! such people are in fact in you face ! just as was as we seen with the Jews dominating over all, as they did with Jesus in fact.

What Jews were worthy ! only a few in fact and this is the same with Christians.

Did it make one worthy of God to be a Jew ? No ! not at all in fact, Look at Moses ! Look at Jacob he became Israel ! So why did he become Israel, well because he was worthy of such in fact. That is the Key. Not just someone of the Tribe or all in it.

As for Grace Mary was Full of Grace and one other that was Full of Grace remember him ? now as to the rest who had Grace was it Full ? no they may of had Grace but not Full of Grace.
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,546
413
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
God calls them Jews Worthy in fact !
Please give Scripture references to support your claims.
You are dismissing them Worthy Jews and 2000 years of history buster.
I have not dismissed anyone! Buster?
Typical of the new age so called Christian idiots who are looking for the Devil who will come, but they claim to be Jesus ? but they have rejected Christ Jesus in fact ! because fact is they have rejected Christ Jesus in fact !
They rejected Jesus because they rejected Jesus? You're talking nonsense!
Not worthy because they did not know him in fact, look around you and see the bastards in the churches, look at the history of the Churches, plenty of bastards who have not the Grace of Christ Jesus at all, but evil as they come !
You're now calling people idiots and bastards - you're showing more hatred and lack of love and compassion! Remember, nobody, not even any Christian, is righteous. We have all sinned and are all imperfect, still having a sinful nature. We are saved only by the grace of God.

Mark 12:29-31 (WEB):

(29) Jesus answered, “The greatest is, ‘Hear, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one:​
(30) you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.​
(31) The second is like this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”​
 

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,871
2,919
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Please give Scripture references to support your claims.

I have not dismissed anyone! Buster?

They rejected Jesus because they rejected Jesus? You're talking nonsense!

You're now calling people idiots and bastards - you're showing more hatred and lack of love and compassion! Remember, nobody, not even any Christian, is righteous. We have all sinned and are all imperfect, still having a sinful nature. We are saved only by the grace of God.

Mark 12:29-31 (WEB):

(29) Jesus answered, “The greatest is, ‘Hear, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one:​
(30) you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.​
(31) The second is like this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”​
So Everyone is worthy to you ?

2/ You think not ?

3/ They openly reject Jesus in fact, or they would become Christians in fact.
That is what it looks like you do not comprehend. or understand the difference between Saved and the dupes of This world. They do not cut it in fact regardless. or Christ Jesus is not Christ Jesus, is what you are pointing to.

4/ All who are not saves are bastards in fact ! did you knot know that such are Father less ? The people who killed Jesus were bastards in fact. The people who support abortion on demand of a healthy baby are bastards, for if they knew Christ Jesus they would no do such a thing, would they ! No they are offering up to a god Moloch in fact that's what they worship !

5/You are right about Mark 12:29-31 but I would not put such in bold as you have did, for it looks as tho you have no regard for the You shall love the ? not, love the as you put in bold ?

Now another thing is that you use the bastard NIV. You should read the AKJV and you may see more clearly, 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: This is the first commandment.
30 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Then you have Lev.19:18; Matt. 22:39; James2:8 to look up if you want it says under that.

Oh I just noted that you are from the UK and the word bastard over their is highly offensive for some stupid reason, my brother in law is Married to a pommy and he got in trouble for saying some words over in the UK that us Aussies use everyday norm that does not raze an eyebrow at all, and he is a Church minister and does not use foul language, but he was sure surprised in the UK to get such a reaction.
Even the Americans who come to Australia use some words that would get one kicked out of the Pub directly, but such a word does not mean, how we think of such at all.
And that is before any of the Political Correctness nonsense, comes about to bastardise everyone as well.
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,546
413
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
So Everyone is worthy to you ?
What makes you think that? I wrote, "nobody, not even any Christian, is righteous. We have all sinned and are all imperfect, still having a sinful nature". How can you twist that to mean "everyone is worthy"?
3/ They openly reject Jesus in fact, or they would become Christians in fact.
That is what it looks like you do not comprehend. or understand the difference between Saved and the dupes of This world. They do not cut it in fact regardless. or Christ Jesus is not Christ Jesus, is what you are pointing to.
You're not making much sense to me!
4/ All who are not saves are bastards in fact ! did you knot know that such are Father less ? The people who killed Jesus were bastards in fact. The people who support abortion on demand of a healthy baby are bastards, for if they knew Christ Jesus they would no do such a thing, would they ! No they are offering up to a god Moloch in fact that's what they worship !
A bastard is someone whose mother and father are not married to each other, so they are an illegitimate child. It does not mean that they don't have a father - that would be impossible. Again, what you write doesn't make much sense.
5/You are right about Mark 12:29-31 but I would not put such in bold as you have did, for it looks as tho you have no regard for the You shall love the ? not, love the as you put in bold ?
What? :confused: You're not making sense again.
Now another thing is that you use the bastard NIV.
No, I did not use the NIV. I clearly stated that I was quoting from the WEB - the World English Bible.
You should read the AKJV and you may see more clearly,
The Authorised Version says exactly the same as the WEB. I don't understand why you are objecting to the version I quoted, which just uses more modern English.

I think I've posted enough replies (at least three) to try and make my point, but you don't seem to get it, and you still haven't come up with any biblical support for what you have written, so there's no point in continuing this discussion. It's time to move on, I think. :waves:
 

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,871
2,919
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What makes you think that? I wrote, "nobody, not even any Christian, is righteous. We have all sinned and are all imperfect, still having a sinful nature". How can you twist that to mean "everyone is worthy"?

You're not making much sense to me!

A bastard is someone whose mother and father are not married to each other, so they are an illegitimate child. It does not mean that they don't have a father - that would be impossible. Again, what you write doesn't make much sense.

What? :confused: You're not making sense again.

No, I did not use the NIV. I clearly stated that I was quoting from the WEB - the World English Bible.

The Authorised Version says exactly the same as the WEB. I don't understand why you are objecting to the version I quoted, which just uses more modern English.

I think I've posted enough replies (at least three) to try and make my point, but you don't seem to get it, and you still haven't come up with any biblical support for what you have written, so there's no point in continuing this discussion. It's time to move on, I think. :waves:
Ok I will have to inform you that a child who's Parents are not officially Married does not make such a Bastard at all in fact, as to the Law it does reflect such. But one who is officially Married can be seen to be worthless regarding the child in fact truly.
But then again they who not officially Married can be the best parents one could have in fact in reality !

But as for God or Christ Jesus, if one has not regard for Christ Jesus then one is a bastard regarding God in fact. because such are Lost in fact. They have no guidance or direction. Such is damnation. one can not build on such grounds.

Jews who claim to be Jews now are bastards, not the Jews who came to Christ Jesus, for they were worthy of God and became the first Christians and Islam are bastards as well in fact because they like the so called Jews are of the same ilk, they reject Jesus as the Christ, Now Islam has a Jesus but this Jesus is not the Christ as far as they claim, for they are looking for a Jesus, just as the stupid Jews are looking for another Jesus and many new age so called Christians are looking for another Jesus in fact, Why ! because they reject Christ Jesus in fact, so they are seeking another in fact.
That's why they are seeking the 2ed coming ! because they are not truly born again in fact ! for if they knew Christ Jesus they would be saved, The second coming does not save the Truly born again, why well one can not be born again twice can they !

So you see it's such as the Godless religious bastards that bring on the Hellfire in fact. and as such they want to bring on the Hellfire in fact ! It's they who make up stupid rapture nonsense claiming that they are not going to experience what they have sown ?
I have heard their claims thinking that they are saved and are going to be taken out from the Hellfire not harmed, but they see with glee that everyone else will be burnt up in the Hellfire that they all created. both atheist and religious ?

The Religious are not Saved in fact ! Religion never Saves ones Soul, only Jesus Christ can save ones Soul in fact.

If Religion can Save ! then all religions must be the same ? But they do not serve the same God in fact, not to mention, no one can come to the Father but only through his only begotten Son ! so that makes it clear in fact !

All religions nowadays are on about worldly works in fact, for they have rejected Christ Jesus in fact. They may talk about a Jesus but only the truly born again know for a fact 100% The Christ Jesus. This comes first and foremost in our lives, not religion.
It's Christ Jesus and then down from him and in him, as we are the Body of Christ Jesus and he is the Head !
But what do we see nowadays in the Churches, Political Correctness idolised, cultural Marxism dominating over the Church. You are all about to become Slaves too idolise stupid gods !
 

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
1,546
413
83
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
What do you mean by "spirit beings"???
It's difficult to define what a spirit being is, because we have no knowledge or experience of what it is like. Scientific theory would lead us to suspect that spirit beings live in an extra dimension, or dimensions, that we don't have access too, and have difficulty imagining. They are not made of physical material, because they are not part of God's creation of the universe and the Earth (they existed before God created the Earth - Job 38:4-7).

God is a spirit being ("God is a spirit", John 4:24) and the angels are spirit beings. They are invisible to us and are not restricted by physical matter. As Jesus said, "The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don’t know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:8). When Christians are resurrected as spirit beings, they will have the same spirit nature as Jesus and God, so although invisible to humans Christians will then be able to see God, Jesus and the angels ("Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is", 1 John 3:2).
 

DarylFawcett

New Member
Nov 30, 2022
21
4
3
75
Nova Scotia, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I am trying to get my head straight around this.

What about Christ?

When He was resurrected, was He also resurrected as a "spirit being"???