What does it mean to be born again?

[marks]

Walking in the Spirit and being in the Spirit is synonymous

The apostle admonishes that "if we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit". One may be reborn, but not faithful, and while having a new life in the Spirit, does not walk in the Spirit, but instead walks according to the flesh. Being reborn but living as if not.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Indeed, [actually] being born again of the spirit of God, as not a new hat, or even a new book to quote from. One does not walk in the spirit like one walks into a room an turns the light on--no, but those who do are rather like a deer in the headlights, who then turn to a defensive position for lack of internal confidence that is not them at all, but Christ in them. Such are the religious. Unfortunately.

Care to explain this for me in simple English Scott? This flew right over my head--and I am not ashamed to admit it.

 

[Episkopos]

I read at least part of this.
Remain in Me and I in you are two different things to me. Since I have never been in the Spirit or walked in the Spirit yet, I could be wrong about that in some way but the verses tell me they are two different things.

It takes courage to be real when so many exaggerate their claims about where they are at. Religious conditioning and carnal competitiveness makes people afraid to reveal their actual experience. Instead people will justify themselves by saying they already have everything written in the bible...by "faith" (actually make-believe). And this satisfies the religious speculators...but not God-seekers and truth seekers.

No wonder that the Christianity of today is so anemic and downright ineffective to stop the slide of the world deeper and deeper into oblivion. That slide has first afflicted the church. There is no power in make-believe.

 

[Lizbeth]

In a nutshell...cross avoidance. We must come to the end of ourselves each time to progress to a new level of grace with the Lord. Calling something there that isn't there is NOT faith...it is fantasy...or as the bible puts it...fables. People will be uplifted in their flesh...thinking that's advancement. But for Jesus to truly be the finisher of one's faith...there is a surrender that needs to take place. A further going to Him...when we come to the end of ourselves.

I see a bleacher full of the peanut gallery spurring on a carnal attempt at fulness in Christ....but without the requisite fear of the Lord and the humility required to see that the flesh is not enough. Human reasoning is not enough.

There is a way that seems right to a man (or woman)....

It takes a breaking to realize there is more to the present limitation....a pipe with a blockage can be unplugged...and reveal a passage that goes on to the next blockage. but this requires spiritual understanding and experience to realize this. Otherwise people will think that the blockage is there until one dies...thereby effectively bearing no eternal fruit.

People perish for a lack of knowledge and depending on their own understanding.

Haven't I talked about the need to crucify the flesh and die to ourselves. Didn't I just mention even today about following Jesus so that the veil of our flesh could be torn, like His was? Certainly we need to come to the end of ourselves. Loving not our life to the death....if we lose our life (psuche) we will save it. I don't rely on carnal reasoning, the Lord gives me light. Yes, it does require spiritual understanding and experience.

Peanut gallery, huh? Well, thank you kindly for that put-down.. Maybe that's because I enjoy feeding peanuts to the squirrels, especially in our winters here.

Sometimes out of the overflow one's own heart, the mouth speaks......words aimed at others are sometimes a mirror reflecting one's own situation.

 

[Johann]

The apostle admonishes that "if we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit". One may be reborn, but not faithful, and will having a new life in the Spirit, does not walk in the Spirit, but instead walks according to the flesh. Being reborn but living as if not.

What is your experience of "live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit"
What is the reality of this experience? The fruit of the Spirit?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

2-27-23

1 Peter 1:23-25

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Read full chapter

Love, Walter and Debbie

 

[Episkopos]

Here is the hypocrisy and dishonesty of the present religious culture...

A person picks up a bible and reads..."We are seated in heavenly places in Christ." The person gasps..."I am"???? The religious lying spirit responds..."yes you are!" The person is made happy because he can have an even greater self-esteem...thanks to Jesus. His flesh (now made religious) can be twice as deceived as it ever was.

Now that same person reads in the bible..."you are poor, naked, wretched and blind". The person gasps..."who me?" The religious lying spirit says..."no, not you, you're special...you are seated in heavenly places, remember?!!!" The person's self-esteem remains intact and untouched by the truth and can continue to avoid the cross (since it's Jesus' job to do all the hard stuff...we just get all the free benefits) And they all said...amen!

 

[Johann]

Yes, it does require spiritual understanding and experience.

@Lizbeth, this is puzzling to me, the spiritual understanding of scriptures I do understand--the experiential side, how do you experience walking in the Spirit, being led by the Spirit, in/en the Spirit 24/7?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That is a very accurate statement of the crux of the problem and the misunderstanding of so many who see the sin and think the worst. It is however not correct. In fact it is "while we were yet sinners" that God saves us, causing us to be free from it. Such is the grace of God.

When I talk to men, they usually mean (when they say saved) live eternally. So I do not disagree that some men are saved. I would just disagree that all those saved men are free from sin. They are free from the penalty of death, free from the law of sin and death. I suppose men who have struggled would agree with me and men who have not struggled would agree with you.

Now there is still the impression of continued sin being evidence against it--but what are we to believe, our eyes and our own lowly thoughts supported by part of the scriptures, or all of what is written?

You lost me here. There is an impression that sinning is evidence against being free from sin? Is that what you’ve said?
And furthermore, are you saying that…one who sins is free from sin? That’s what you’re defending? That even when you sin, you must believe you are free from sin?
I understand going by trust rather than the bleakness my eyes see. I understand hoping against hope for Gods promises. I do not, however, understand saying a man who sins is free from sin.

Still, what about the feeling that remains that we are not [really] completely there, not fully arrived, not a hundred percent--even if we feel new? Why should we be convinced of what we don't yet feel we have fully attained? The answer is not that those other scriptures that would seem to indicate that salvation is instantaneous don't actually mean what they say. No, but rather that we are looking at it wrong--that the sin whether remaining to some degree, is not the measure of salvation--we are not the measure. Christ in us is!

Which was made evident before His ascension, for He wore the marks of our sins also, and yet was pure in and of Himself. He is the measure.

Once again, I believe when we receive the down payment of theSpirit, we will live forever and that’s “instantaneous.” That’s basic. Any more, I am mostly talking about moving on from such elementary things and to things like honor or dishonor, reward or loss.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I admire your frankness, that you have never been in, or walked in the Spirit.
May I give you advice? Don't go on other's testimonies Stun.
Do not compare your experience with that of other's.

I don’t. I go on scripture and my own experience of God. And so, when I read that there is no sin in Him, I see that I am not in Him yet. He is in me of course.

 

[Lizbeth]

It takes courage to be real when so many exaggerate their claims about where they are at. Religious conditioning and carnal competitiveness makes people afraid to reveal their actual experience. Instead people will justify themselves by saying they already have everything written in the bible...by "faith" (actually make-believe). And this satisfies the religious speculators...but not God-seekers and truth seekers.

No wonder that the Christianity of today is so anemic and downright ineffective to stop the slide of the world deeper and deeper into oblivion. That slide has first afflicted the church. There is no power in make-believe.

No, people are not justifying themselves, nor making claims about themselves. But you are just not getting it.

 

[Episkopos]

No, people are not justifying themselves, nor making claims about themselves. But you are just not getting it.

I resist religious spirits that lie against the truth... and that puts people in a snit, since so many believe the first thought (voice) that comes into their heads

Have you no memory? All the claims of people here...like claiming to be as righteous as God Himself. Man, that sure beats those pesky Pharisees...who only thought they were maybe as righteous as Moses.

 

[Johann]

I don’t. I go on scripture and my own experience of God. And so, when I read that there is no sin in Him, I see that I am not in Him yet. He is in me of course.

May I be frank with you? I have the same experience as you, but you have to believe/trust that you are IN Christ and Christ IN you. This is the reality of the Scriptures, you might not "feel" like you are not IN HIM, but you are.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

"It all happens", that's rather vague statement.

I'm not saying we mature in a moment. I'm not saying we become trained in faith in a moment. But in a moment God slays us and births us and we are new. In a moment God frees us from sin and we are free.

What is it that you don't think happens when we are born again?

Much love!

I don’t think what happens is your “slayed in a moment.”
What part of you do you think was killed in that moment? Surely not the part that has to pick up it’s cross and follow…so what part or parts of yourself do you think died in that instant?

 

[Episkopos]

May I be frank with you? I have the same experience as you, but you have to believe/trust that you are IN Christ and Christ IN you. This is the reality of the Scriptures, you might not "feel" like you are not IN HIM, but you are.

As in...humility has NO part in the Christian life. You are rich and have need of nothing...! Now say that to yourself a hundred times...and voila...still nothing!

 

[marks]

What is your experience of "live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit"
What is the reality of this experience? The fruit of the Spirit?

My experience is that a full trusting in the efficacy of Jesus' death to have worked my own death absolves me of anything that would hinder my faith in Him, so that I can walk in His Spirit, bearing the fruit of His Spirit in me, walking in the pre-ordained works, not conscious of sins.

I don't expect that I would ever claim to be sinless, that strikes me as foolishness and hubris, only Jesus is the proper and fit judge.

My experience has been that for a time I think that God gifted me with the faith to so live for a season, then after that season began my training to apprehend that same walk and mind through trusting in Chris on a more conscious level.

Isaiah, Jeremiah, both used words like, our transgressions testify against us, the Godly answer is, the just shall live by faith, and, we walk by faith and not by sight.

Seeing the sins of your flesh doesn't mean your new creation is tainted by sin. Standing in that faith, you will see the sins of the flesh cease. Maybe quickly, maybe through a process of time - of training - of renewing the mind.

And I'm not just talking about "not sinning", that is, abstaining from those things you hold to be wrong, but truly not sinning, meaning, a failure to be joyful, a failure to be loving, a failure to be faithful and trusting, like that.

Simply stated, He showed me through experience what walking in faith looks like, and now He shows me how to hold to that faith more and more consistently, so as to stand in His grace.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

As in...humility has NO part in the Christian life. You have need of nothing...you are rich! Now say that a hundred times...and voila...still nothing!

Brother, you need to calm down ten notches.

 

[marks]

I don’t think what happens is your “slayed in a moment.”
What part of you do you think was killed in that moment? Surely not the part that has to pick up it’s cross and follow…so what part or parts of yourself do you think died in that instant?

Romans 6:3-7 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Our old man was crucified with Christ, and now, being dead, we are freed from sin. Literally, "justified away from sin". Interesting expression, isn't it?

You could say, "righteousified away from sin".

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Brother, you need to calm down ten notches.

100 divided by 10....hey, that still leaves 10. So then, repeat it only 10 times.

 

[Johann]

100 divided by 10....hey, that still leaves 10. So then, repeat it only 10 times.

Correct, calm down, your flesh is stirred up, and Stun can see it.