4:18 - being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. Who is they? Not the apostles.
Yes not apostles, the reason I used this verse is to show those with hardness of heart cannot be saved. The apostles are in the same boat with these folks. They(apostles) had hardened their hearts.
You are trying to convince me that folks with hardened hearts will be saved and in heaven.
All you need to do to convince me that I can have a hardened heart and go to heaven is give the scriptures they teach what you're teaching?
So far I've not heard you give one scripture that proves hardness of heart = salvation.
Believers do not perish (John 3:16) Only unbelievers will perish
This is why you cannot see the obvious with Simon the Sorcerer.
You hold to a theology OSAS therefore you refuse to allow the scriptures to interpret themselves.
Stop reading the scriptures through OSAS glasses and you can understand Acts 8.
Show me in the New Testament in which a Christians is described as HEART IS NOT RIGHT BEFORE GOD/POISONED BY BITTERNESS AND BOUND BY INIQUITY. May your money perish with you (do you know what it means to perish?) Just accept the truth!
If you had been paying attention, doesn't seem you have, I have always taken the position that when Simon sinned after he had already been saved. Simon was once again in a lost condition UNTIL he repents of the sin of trying to purchase the apostles power of the Holy Spirit with money.
So now you admit that Simon was going to perish? Now we are getting somewhere.
THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY BELIEF SINCE I WAS A YOUNG MAN.
You are not paying attention to my answers.
Look what your theology has done to you Dan?
You have the apostles with hardness of hearts going to heaven.
Prove where the bible teaches those with hardened hearts will be in heaven?
Every scripture in the old and new testaments never, ever teach anyone with a hardened heart IS RIGHT WITH GOD.
But because you hold to your theology, you must make a silly argument that those with hardness of heart are saved and going to heaven.
Prove it, you have not proven your doctrine with scripture.
No, that is the response of someone who is fearful and wanting to escape the consequences of his sinful actions. He still needed to repent of his wickedness and get his heart right before God
I have taught you repeatedly that No unbeliever when told by an apostle to repent and pray to God unless you perish IS GOING TO BE AFRAID, FEARFUL!!!
Dan, Simon knows Peter believes Jesus is God. And according to you SIMON DOES NOT BELIEVE JESUS IS GOD.
Why would an unbeliever on the street today be scarred if I or you told them to repent because they have sinned against Jesus?
Many would laugh in your face. That is the common response of unbelievers being told they are sinning against Jesus.
You already told me Simon was so bold in his sin to try and purchase the apostles power why?
You claim it was because he was an unbeliever and this is why he was not afraid to commit this sin.
Now you say he asks Peter to please pray for him that he not perish because he is afraid of what Peter's God will do to him.
Inconsistent Dan.
Also, Simon according to you is an unbeliever. Peter never even mentions to Simon that he needs to believe in Jesus. Only that he needs to repent.
The bible teaches alien sinners need to be told to believe first in Christ to be saved, John 3:16
Christians are told to repent of their sins just as Peter told Simon, 1John 1:9.
Once again you hold to your theology that repentance comes before faith.
The only reason you hold on to this doctrine is you know repentance is a work,
Therefore you must put repentance before faith to get works out of salvation.
In reality it does not matter if you put repantance first or belief first.
Fact: If one does not repent before he believes he cannot be saved.
Can one be saved without repenting Dan?
Same is true with belief then repentance. Both required to be saved.
They did not believe at first and this saying was hid from them. (Luke 18:31-34) Peter did not believe it at first and even rebuked the Lord for saying He would be killed, and be raised the third day.
Dan, why did they not have faith in what Jesus had ALREADY REVEALED TO THEM?
Jesus told them He was going to die and be ressurected. Yet the apostles did not believe.
I agree early on when Jesus told them He would die and be ressurected they did not understand.
But after they witnessed the Transfiguration of Jesus, Jesus commands them not to tell of His transfiguration until...
He is risen from the dead.
Matthew 17:8-9,
- when they(apostles) had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them saying,
Tell the vision to no one until,
the Son of man is risen from the dead.
At this point they did not need to fully understand what Jesus was telling them.
They just needed to believe what He was telling them.
We see they had no faith in what Jesus taught them in Mark 16.
They lost their faith in Jesus.
Out of Jesus' own mouth, He said they had their hearts hardened.
They had hardness of heart.
All you have to do is give evidence that people with hardness of heart are going to heaven.
Mark 16:14,
- Later Jesus appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table and He rebuked their unbelief
and hardness of heart because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
It does not matter if you understand what Jesus tells you.
If He tells you He is going to be ressurected from the dead, just believe what God says.
Jesus certainly thought they were wrong for not believing what He told them. Otherwise He would not have rebuked them for their unbelief.