A Test Of Reading Comprehension and Honesty

[David in NJ]

Paul's sins were washed away and he was gloriously saved on the road to Damascus when he said, "Lord, what will you have me do."

That was the moment he surrendered to Christ, and according to Eph. 1:13 he was saved receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Three days later Ananias sent him to be water baptized, confessing what had happened in his salvation on the road to Damascus. The wdater baptism of Paul, as with all, represented the washing away of his sins. It is the symbol and confession of being baptized spiritually into Christ, Rom. 6.

HaleluYAH

 

[Behold]

The context of the verse is to be saved, not to be water baptized.

Next, look at what damns you.

"he that believes not".......and no water baptism is mentioned., as water has nothing to do with Salvation, unless water died on the Cross for your sin.
It didnt, and that is why the verse says the CHRIST REJECTOR... "believeth NOT" is damned.

Now look at this verse, as its connected.


John 3:36

""Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever does not obey the Son , the wrath of God remains on him.”

The wrath of God is against Christ Rejectors because their SIN isn't dealt with.
So, They are going to be dealt with after they die. = God's Wrath. = Hell, then the Lake of Fire (2nd Death).

And if they are still here when Jesus comes back, then its going to happen then.

2 Thessalonians 1:8

""""In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus Christ""""

Notice Reader that "obey the Son" is explained in 2 Thessalonians 1:8 AS.... "OBEY THE GOSPEL".

Reader, how do you OBEY IT?

You BELIEVE IT, and that connects to "they believed not and are damned"..


see that?
That is how you "rightly divided" the Word.
I just "compared scripture with scripture".. for you.

= "study to show yourself approved".
==================================================================================================

And reader...why does that matter so very much?

It matters so that you are NOT led astray, into a cult by someone who had practiced the scriptures in such a way that they will turn you into their cult member. Which is what has happened to them.

Let me give you an example of how a cult member can take one of those verses I posted and wrongly divide it and ruin your faith, if your faith is not strong.

They will take...>John 3:36, that says to "Obey the Lord." that means to obey the Gospel = BELIEVE IT.

And they will teach you this....... 'Obey the LORD" means to Keep the Commandments of Jesus, and if you do that, you are saved. If you dont, then you are not.

See that?
I just twisted a verse into heresy for you, as an example as that teaching happens a lot, when these liars use the NT against you to try to get your faith off of the Cross of Christ and onto the commandments or WATAR Baptism, or works and self effort.

Learn to see these deceivers.
I keep showing you how.

 

[amigo de christo]

HaleluYAH

Sumbit . submission . Me thinks this church age has no idea what that means .
But this generation could learn a lot from even the animals .
When one submits , it puts itself in a position to where the greater IS ITS RULER and it is in obediance unto its master .
Ever seen a dominate dog approach the subordinate . The beta will lay down and raise its leg , giving the dominate
dog total control over it . Ed and xactly . many have not submitted unto GOD , NOR HIS CHRIST .
THEY LIVE as though they the alpha and yet try and believe and act as though THEY the subordinate .
IT wont bode well on the day of the LORD for those .
If a dog cant be fooled by a false submission , BELIEVE YOU ME GOD WONT BE EITHER

 

[amigo de christo]

A, B an C are all Correct = according to the Word of God

i am not a calvinist

Hebrews 9:22 = key words = "according to the Law"

Salvation thru GRACE was firmly and IRREFUTABLY established by God in Genesis and confirmed in Gospel and Galatians

Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith,
preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Praise GOD . yeah dont follow calivin either .
All that the FATHER has are mine . All who have learned of the FATHER cometh to ME .
No man can come to me lest the Father draw Him . THUS oh yes its by grace we are saved .
But beware of calvin for he has seriously messed things up .
The simple truth is this . Not me , not you , not anyone , OTHER THAN GOD and HIS CHRIST
knows who will come . THUS our job is to simply preach JESUS to all that has breath .
The truth also is , GOD never desired the death of any , but rather they would repent .
So all we truly need to do , IS PREACH JESUS and HIS EVERY WORD as well as every WORD instructed and given
by THE HOLY GHOST In that bible . But for a lamb this comes from GOD . I KNOW what i was once .
And i know it was GOD alone who put the new desire into my heart .
EVERYTHING written is for our good . Folks seem to forget that . Was not what paul and even the other apostles
INFLUENCED BY SAID HOLY GHOST when they wrote as they did . YET with them THEY WARNED THE CHURCH
by the SPIRIT about HAVING TO CONTINUE IN JESUS . SO how come when true lambs today , BY that same SPIRIT
reminds the church of those SAME SPIRIT INSPIRED WORDS that JESUS and the apostels left us
DO THEY RESIST and say , YE HAVE NO FAITH IN JESUS YE WHO PREACH and WARN WE MUST CONTINUE .
WHEN EVEN JESUS , and the apostels WHO HAD THE SPIRIT , SAID THE SAME THING .
ME THINKS MEN ARE TRUSTING IN MEN WITH AGENDAS and ACROYNMS , rather than in GOD , HIS CHRIST
and the SPIRIT INSPIRED WORDS OF and in that bible . WE GOT PROBLEMS WITHIN THE CHRISTENDOM OF TODAY .

 

[Titus]

Paul's sins were washed away and he was gloriously saved on the road to Damascus when he said, "Lord, what will you have me do."

That was the moment he surrendered to Christ, and according to Eph. 1:13 he was saved receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Three days later Ananias sent him to be water baptized, confessing what had happened in his salvation on the road to Damascus. The wdater baptism of Paul, as with all, represented the washing away of his sins. It is the symbol and confession of being baptized spiritually into Christ, Rom. 6.

Why did God tell him to go into the city and it will be told you what you must do?
We know when Jesus preached His gospel he included baptism, Mark 16:15-16.
Why did Ananias teach him to be baptized if he had already learned the gospel of Christ?
He would not need Ananias to tell him to be baptized.
Jesus taught in His great commission that His apostles were to go into all the world and teach them His gospel, Matthew 28:19,
- Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father......

Jesus left that work up to men to teach others His gospel.
That's why Jesus told Paul he would be told what to do.
That's why He sent Ananias to tell Paul words by which he would be saved.

You are stating that Paul was Holy Spirit baptized on the road to Damascus.
Where is your Scriptural evidence? You gave none.
Am I supposed to believe you because you say so?

What the Bible actually says is Paul receives HS baptism three days later after faith.
He did not have the Holy Spirit, he had to have Ananias lay his hands on Paul.
God told Ananias that is how Paul is to recieve the power of the HS.
Acts 9:17,
- And Ananias went His way and entered the house and laying His hands on Paul he said, brother Saul the Lord Jesus whom appeared to you on the road to Damascus has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Why not believe what the Scriptures teach?

 

[Charlie24]

Why did God tell him to go into the city and it will be told you what you must do?
We know when Jesus preached His gospel he included baptism, Mark 16:15-16.
Why did Ananias teach him to be baptized if he had already learned the gospel of Christ?
He would not need Ananias to tell him to be baptized.
Jesus taught in His great commission that His apostles were to go into all the world and teach them His gospel, Matthew 28:19,
- Go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father......

Jesus left that work up to men to teach others His gospel.
That's why Jesus told Paul he would be told what to do.
That's why He sent Ananias to tell Paul words by which he would be saved.

You are stating that Paul was Holy Spirit baptized on the road to Damascus.
Where is your Scriptural evidence? You gave none.
Am I supposed to believe you because you say so?

What the Bible actually says is Paul receives HS baptism three days later after faith.
He did not have the Holy Spirit, he had to have Ananias lay his hands on Paul.
God told Ananias that is how Paul is to recieve the power of the HS.
Acts 9:17,
- And Ananias went His way and entered the house and laying His hands on Paul he said, brother Saul the Lord Jesus whom appeared to you on the road to Damascus has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Why not believe what the Scriptures teach?

Looks as though we have some confusion on the baptisms found in Scripture. There are several, but let's concentrate on the the big 3.

Baptism into Christ

Baptism in the name of the Lord (water baptism)

Baptism of the Holy Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in other tongues)

Let's follow Paul to see where and when he received these baptisms. Briefly speaking and we can discuss.

Baptism into Christ was received the very second that Paul surrendered to Christ on the road to Damascus. That was his salvation, justification before God.

Baptism in the name of the Lord (water baptism) came 3 days later when Ananias sent him. It was Paul's confession of what had happened in his heart the moment he was saved on the road. The visible symbol of being crucified with Christ, buried with Him, and raised a new man in Christ, coming out of the water.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in other tongues) was administered by Ananias while Paul was still in the house. The Scripture does not always record the "speaking in tongues" at this baptism, This is separate than receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit at the very moment of salvation. Scripture bears out that one must be saved, therefore already possessing the indwelling Holy Spirit in order to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.)

I'll be happy to go to the Scripture and point out any of this in more detail, if you wish.

 

[Titus]

Yes, please do.

Baptism into Christ

Baptism in the name of the Lord (water baptism)

Baptism of the Holy Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in other tongues)

You have seperated baptized into Christ and water baptism.
Please explain Galatians 3:26-27,
- For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
- For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Which baptism is verse 27?

Romans 6:3-4,
- Or do you know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death?
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should also walk in newness of life.

Which baptism is Verses 3-4?

You have claimed twice Paul was savec by Jesus on the road to Damascus and baptized.
Please give Scripture for how you know this. And what baptism would this be?

Paul says there is only one in the gospel of Christ, Ephesians 4:5, One Lord, One faith, One baptism

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, please do.

You have seperated baptized into Christ and water baptism.
Please explain Galatians 3:26-27,
- For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
- For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Which baptism is verse 27?

Romans 6:3-4,
- Or do you know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death?
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should also walk in newness of life.

Which baptism is Verses 3-4?

You have claimed twice Paul was savec by Jesus on the road to Damascus and baptized.
Please give Scripture for how you know this. And what baptism would this be?

Paul says there is only one in the gospel of Christ, Ephesians 4:5, One Lord, One faith, One baptism

OK, let's take them one at a time.

Gal. 3:26-27

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Paul is telling us that all are saved by faith alone. Yes, that is what he is saying in vs. 26.

Paul mentions the "Baptism into Christ" which is covered by him in detail in Rom. 6.

It is as I have told you, this is the justification of the saint. It is the spiritual experience of salvation that takes place the very instant one accepts Christ as Saviour. This baptism has nothing to do with water baptism, which is referred to as "baptism in the name of the Lord" throughout the Gospels.

 

[Titus]

Good.
At what point are added to Christ? When do we get in Christ?

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Here we see folks who have faith in Christ Jesus, verse 26.
Next we learn we are baptized into Jesus, verse 27.

Two requirements here to be children of God, faith in Him and to get into Jesus, baptism.

That is exactly what Jesus taught about salvation in Mark 16:15-16,
he that believeth(theres the faith in Jesus) and is baptized(theres when we are added to Him)
Only the saved are in Christ. You cannot be saved outside of Christ.

Therefore both are essential but only one puts you in Christ.
No one has ever been added to Christ by faith only and no baptism.
Folks who claim this are violating this teaching of Paul in Galatians.

Acts 8:12-13,
-But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the ,-'name of Jesus Christ both men and women were baptized.
Now are these folks in Christ at belief only? Or were they added to Christ when they had faith then were baptized?

If you say they are already baptized before they were water baptized how do you prove that with Scripture?
If they were baptized by faith alone then water baptized after, this violates scripture,
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, One faith, One baptism.
You currently have two in the conversion of Acts chapter 8.

Continue with Acts 8: 12-13; 15-16,
- Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.

Alright Philip taught them the gospel. They believed and were baptized.
Why are the apostles coming now? Because only the apostles have the power to lay hands on christians to give them miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Verse 15-16,
- who when they had come down prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
- for as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Did you here Luke?
They believed and were water baptized.
Now your doctrine is they have already been baptized the moment they believed.
But the Inspired writer says they have only been baptized in the name of the Lord.

You already admitted that baptism in the name of the Lord is water.
Your doctrine of a baptism occurring when one Believes the gospel of Jesus Christ then later they got baptized in water, then baptized by the Holy Spirit does not exegete. Your teaching here is unscriptual.
You need to accept the Inspired words of Luke when he says they have only received one baptism.

 

[Charlie24]

Good.
At what point are added to Christ? When do we get in Christ?

Here we see folks who have faith in Christ Jesus, verse 26.
Next we learn we are baptized into Jesus, verse 27.

Two requirements here to be children of God, faith in Him and to get into Jesus, baptism.

That is exactly what Jesus taught about salvation in Mark 16:15-16,
he that believeth(theres the faith in Jesus) and is baptized(theres when we are added to Him)
Only the saved are in Christ. You cannot be saved outside of Christ.

Therefore both are essential but only one puts you in Christ.
No one has ever been added to Christ by faith only and no baptism.
Folks who claim this are violating this teaching of Paul in Galatians.

Acts 8:12-13,
-But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the ,-'name of Jesus Christ both men and women were baptized.
Now are these folks in Christ at belief only? Or were they added to Christ when they had faith then were baptized?

If you say they are already baptized before they were water baptized how do you prove that with Scripture?
If they were baptized by faith alone then water baptized after, this violates scripture,
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, One faith, One baptism.
You currently have two in the conversion of Acts chapter 8.

Continue with Acts 8: 12-13; 15-16,
- Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.

Alright Philip taught them the gospel. They believed and were baptized.
Why are the apostles coming now? Because only the apostles have the power to lay hands on christians to give them miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Verse 15-16,
- who when they had come down prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
- for as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Did you here Luke?
They believed and were water baptized.
Now your doctrine is they have already been baptized the moment they believed.
But the Inspired writer says they have only been baptized in the name of the Lord.

You already admitted that baptism in the name of the Lord is water.
Your doctrine of a baptism occurring when one Believes the gospel of Jesus Christ then later they got baptized in water, then baptized by the Holy Spirit does not exegete. Your teaching here is unscriptual.
You need to accept the Inspired words of Luke when he says they have only received one baptism.

I prove the "baptism into Christ" is not referring to water, but referring to an operation of God in the spiritual realm from Col. 2:11-14.

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

Baptism does not always refer to water as some think. The "baptism into Christ" that Paul speaks of is being immersed into Christ in the spiritual realm, at the very point of salvation.

 

[Titus]

I prove the "baptism into Christ" is not referring to water, but referring to an operation of God in the spiritual realm from Col. 2:11-14.

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

Baptism does not always refer to water as some think. The "baptism into Christ" that Paul speaks of is being immersed into Christ in the spiritual realm, at the very point of salvation.

No, you cannot ignore what I have just taught from the scriptures Sir.
I can just ignore what you have shared too.
Does that do me any good in my learning?
An honest man will always take into consideration when evidence is given that clearly shows unexplainable examples that contradict what claims have been made.
If you just ignore Luke in Acts 8:16 then you are dedicated to your theology and not what saith the Scriptures.

 

[Charlie24]

No, you cannot ignore what I have just taught from the scriptures Sir.
I can just ignore what you have shared too.
Does that do me any good in my learning?
An honest man will always take into consideration when evidence is given that clearly shows unexplainable examples that contradict what claims have been made.
If you just ignore Luke in Acts 8:16 then you are dedicated to your theology and not what saith the Scriptures.

That's fine with me. I'm just showing you what I know to be true.

 

[Titus]

That's fine with me. I'm just showing you what I know to be true.

Your showing when the Scriptures go against your theology your allegiance is to your theology.

 

[mailmandan]

We dont know if the thief was or was not baptized by John. Danthemailman teaches he was not,
Which he cannot prove therefore he is teaching error. I challenge Dan to prove with book, chapter and verse that the thief on the cross was not baptized by John the baptist.

That's the other common argument I hear from water-salvationists. So you argue that the thief on the cross may have been converted, was water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely)

In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. More fruit? I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blaspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith.

Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:39-43). Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized. That's all the proof I need.

Danthemailman wants us to believe the Baptism of John is not for the remission of sins.
That is in order to cleanse the Jews of their sins.
Dan teaches they had repented and their baptism represents they have already repented.

I already explained this in post #177.

They makes their water baptism i consequential to their repentance (because they already repented begore baptism). Therefore, if they were not baptized they would still have repented.
John's baptism was commanded, it was not if you wanted to.
If the Jews were not baptized they would be dis-obeying Gods law.

No one can be penitent and go against Gods decrees.
Therefore if they did not obey the command to be baptized THEY COULD NOT BE REPENTANT!
In order to be repentant they must have obeyed God by being baptized for the forgiveness of sins.

Can anyone claim they have repented of their sins against God and dis-obey His commandments?
Dan wants you to believe they already repented before obeying Gods command to be baptized.

Water baptism would be the fruit of repentance, but not the essence of repentance and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 26:18) Repentance is a "change of mind" and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin.

 

[amigo de christo]

Point to Christ to the last and final breath .

 

[Titus]

That's the other common argument I hear from water-salvationists. So you argue that the thief on the cross may have been converted, was water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief? - (highly unlikely)

First all you do repeatedly is misrepresentation. I'm not a water salvationist.
I do not believe water washes away anyone's sins.
Second: more misrepresentation. No, I do not argue the thief on probably was baptized by John.
The Bible is silent, therefore I will not speculate.
It is possible he was. It is possible he was not. I dont make any claims I cant back up with Scripture.
You, however repeatable make the claim the thief on the cross was not baptized. Pure speculation on your part. I make no claims either way.
Third claim Dan's making is no way thief could have been baptized because he was crucified as a thief. More pure speculation, you have zero scriptural evidence to back up your assertions.
It absolutely is possible for someone to be saved and immediately commit sin against God out of ignorance. New converts are babes in Christ. Do all new converts know it is a sin to to worry? Matthew 6:30-33. Sometimes worry can be caused by a lack of faith in God providing what we need.
Here's biblical proof new converts can sin immediately, Acts 8 Simon the Sorcerer believed and was baptized yet tried to buy the power that the apostles had. Peter did not tell him to believe to be saved because he was already a believer. Peter told him to repent of thy wickedness. Which Simon reply was a request for Peter to also pray for him. I dont speculate. I'm tired of Danthemailman's misrepresentation and his presuppositions.

 

[amigo de christo]

Your showing when the Scriptures go against your theology your allegiance is to your theology.

What the real question should be is this and this alone . IF THE EARLY CHURCH DID IT , WHY DONT WE SIMPLY DO IT .
Why did peter , even after the household of cornelious had been baptized by the HOLY GHOST,
STILL say , is there water here that these may be baptized as well as we .
IF the early church did it , END OF DISCUSSION . WE DO IT .

 

[Titus]

IF THE EARLY CHURCH DID IT , WHY DONT WE SIMPLY DO IT

Amen, amen, amen ALL disagreements would end if we all just did what the Scriptures teach. Acts 2:42
-and they continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine..

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen, amen, amen ALL disagreements would end if we all just did what the Scriptures teach. Acts 2:42
-and they continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine..

And yet this church age THINKS if we just cast aside doctrine and gather for unity and do some good works
ALL would unite . THEY ONLY half right . ALL Who do so WILL UNITE . ONLY IT WONT BE UNDER GOD but under satan .
IF we would simply have done and have taught TO DO the things FIRST DELIVERED UNTO US
THEN the true lambs would have united UNDER JESUS as it was supposed to be .

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen, amen, amen ALL disagreements would end if we all just did what the Scriptures teach. Acts 2:42
-and they continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine..