What does it mean to be born again?

[quietthinker]

Claiming to be justified by Christ while still living under the power of sin makes a person a transgressor. No different than a Pharisse...worse actually, since no Pharisee would have the gall to claim to be as righteous as God.

so we come back to the question, how do you define sin?...and secondly, is the text you quoted saying what you stated above?

 

[Episkopos]

so we come back to the question, how do you define sin?...and secondly, is the text you quoted saying what you stated above?

Why do you think you have to redefine sin in order to be righteous in God's eyes? Did Jesus die in order to merely redefine sin...or give us the power of His life to overcome as He overcame? As we abide in Him, we walk as He walked....above sin.

 

[Waiting on him]

Why do you think you have to redefine sin in order to be righteous in God's eyes? Did Jesus die in order to merely redefine sin...or give us the power of His life to overcome as He overcame? As we abide in Him, we walk as He walked....above sin.

John 1:17-18 KJV
[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. [18] No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Do you really believe God gave those laws?

 

[quietthinker]

Why do you think you have to redefine sin in order to be righteous in God's eyes? Did Jesus die in order to merely redefine sin...or give us the power of His life to overcome as He overcame? As we abide in Him, we walk as He walked....above sin.

I am not redefining sin. Jesus' statement makes us re-look at how we define it.....and how he defines it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

John 6:5-11 reads like this,

'5“But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Given that all are transgressors of the Law and subsequently sinners and any who claim they are not loose credibility....where do we go? Some deny that the Law is no longer applicable thus absolving them in some fashion, at least in their own minds, to disregard it or minimise it....but here, in these texts above Jesus redefines all three (sin, righteousness and judgement) contrary or other to what is generally understood.

My question relates to understanding his statement.....and its connection to new birth.

Okay, I see. So the verse I gave gives a portion of the one you were thinking of.
Whatever is not of trust/belief is sin.
Of sin, because they do not believe

I guess I have a comment at least on the first of them - regarding sin as being not believing God, its not (at least to me) a redefining of what sin means. Thinking clear back to Adam, they would not have ate had they believed Him. So their sin was not believing God. Eating was the outward display of the sin in their heart.
So I don’t see a redefining. I DO see, in a lot of what Jesus taught, a more focused defining of things but not a redefining.

 

[Lizbeth]

The fruits of what is in a persons heart will always be made known . its quite obvious .
One thing about the co exist ecumincal we are one generation
is ye shall know them by their defense of sinful behavoir , and their attacks against those who simply bring doctrinal truth .
You wont ever see them rebuking folks for their paths , lifestyle choices , mindsets , UNLESS those mindsets
expose the darkness . NOW THOSE they will go after like a pit bull on a porkchop .
THEY always preach LOVE , LIVE and let live , JUDGE NOT , YET if one brings truth that exposes the darkness
THEY aint so tolerant anymore . We must march on in the LORD my dear sister .
This generation has fast fallen in love with relative truth syndrome and other such things
and have created a god that serves their own desires . Not rather that we ought to serve the GOD who created .
And to honor HIM in all we do and say . Rather for them its the god that serves their own desires .
This is truly a sad thing to watch . But all we can do is expose the darkness by the LIGHT of CHRIST and stay well dug
in the scriptures too and be in prayer and be stirred up to do the things That PLEASE GOD
and not mans ways .

Amen, exactly right.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I am not redefining sin. Jesus' statement makes us re-look at how we define it.....and how he defines it.

Yes. And He did that in the “you have heard it said” passage too. He adjusted the blurred lens. Its the difference between the blurry seeing of: I see what looks to be trees? TO: ah, trees don’t move like that so they have to men I see.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Okay, I see. So the verse I gave gives a portion of the one you were thinking of.
Whatever is not of trust/belief is sin.
Of sin, because they do not believe

I guess I have a comment at least on the first of them - regarding sin as being not believing God, its not (at least to me) a redefining of what sin means. Thinking clear back to Adam, they would not have ate had they believed Him. So their sin was not believing God. Eating was the outward display of the sin in their heart.
So I don’t see a redefining. I DO see, in a lot of what Jesus taught, a more focused defining of things but not a redefining.

After the help of coffee, I see that the three are actually the three things the messed up doctrines have got so wrong and if the three were understood correctly we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in.
And they are the three things Epi has always focused on and helped to teach me - sin, righteousness and judgement…
I know you won’t see that because you haven’t had the benefit of all he has taught about what we’ve got wrong for so many years as I have. But if Epi were a scratched record, the needle would be stuck on a constant repetition of “sin, righteousness and Gods judgement.”

And now I’ve done it. I’ve mentioned Epi again. It will give them something to gnash their teeth at while they eat their cereal. Lol.

 

[Episkopos]

I am not redefining sin. Jesus' statement makes us re-look at how we define it.....and how he defines it.

You mean like even just lusting after another person is sin? Or being angry against a brother is murder?

 

[Lizbeth]

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.


18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

"For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor."

Plain to see.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes. And He did that in the “you have heard it said” passage too. He adjusted the blurred lens. Its the difference between the blurry seeing of: I see what looks to be trees? TO: ah, trees don’t move like that so they have to men I see.

No he didn't do anything. He was simply RECEIVING, from Jesus, sight to see.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No he didn't do anything. He was simply RECEIVING, from Jesus, sight to see.

You are like a two year old on sugary birthday cake, all you can keep saying is, NO! NO! NO!

It’s not a bad thing to expend some thought on what you read before you speak you know.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

John 6:5-11 reads like this,

'5“But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Given that all are transgressors of the Law and subsequently sinners and any who claim they are not loose credibility....where do we go? Some deny that the Law is no longer applicable thus absolving them in some fashion, at least in their own minds, to disregard it or minimise it....but here, in these texts above Jesus redefines all three (sin, righteousness and judgement) contrary or other to what is generally understood.

My question relates to understanding his statement.....and its connection to new birth.

By the way, you sent me to the wrong place, it’s John 16, not John 6. But it was okay, I saw something in the wrong place you sent me to I’d never seen before.

 

[Episkopos]

"For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor."

Plain to see.

That's assuming you were ever broken in the outer man. People here are lifting up the part of themselves that needs to go to the cross...for the first time!

So then all this preserving the flesh...and defending the flesh...makes people very unlike Paul. Paul was an actual apostle. And people are so deluded as to think they have what Paul had. Jesus said the way was difficult and narrow. That's why no one tries to misunderstand Jesus. They just avoid Him.

People here follow a deluded monk named Luther. These have NO idea what the gospel is, the power of grace is...and what salvation from sin really entails.

 

[Lizbeth]

I am not redefining sin. Jesus' statement makes us re-look at how we define it.....and how he defines it.

Whatsoever is not of FAITH is sin........because it means one is walking in the flesh at that moment, not by FAITH/SPIRIT. And the flesh is corrupt.

I don't know how clear my mind is this morning to try and tentatively tackle this but maybe we could say that walking in unbelief is walking in the flesh, walking in a state of iniquity. Eve in the garden chose to believe the serpent, and not God...she walked/acted in unbelief (towards God) and that equaled sin in a way. That was her fall. Eating fruit is not even sin in itself, but being out of the will of God is....and unbelief, ie, not being in faith, is sin. Sin is more than what someone might do, it's an overall condition. Being in faith, in the spirit, lifts us out of that condition. That is the wonderful blessing we have in Christ. Hope that might be at least partly helpful.

 

[Lizbeth]

That's assuming you were ever broken in the outer man. People here are lifting up the part of themselves that needs to go to the cross...for the first time!

So then all this preserving the flesh...and defending the flesh...makes people very unlike Paul. Paul was an actual apostle. And people are so deluded as to think they have what Paul had. Jesus said the way was difficult and narrow. That's why no one tries to misunderstand Jesus. They just avoid Him.

People here follow a deluded monk named Luther. These have NO idea what the gospel is, the power of grace is...and what salvation from sin really entails.

Paul is simply talking to all believers, but I believe and often perceive that there can be more than one level of things in the Spirit, but each level is valid in itself.

 

[Lizbeth]

You are like a two year old on sugary birthday cake, all you can keep saying is, NO! NO! NO!

It’s not a bad thing to expend some thought on what you read before you speak you know.

Sister, more than once I've resisted the temptation to point out the irony recently.

 

[Episkopos]

Paul is simply talking to all believers, but I believe and often perceive that there can be more than one level of things in the Spirit, but each level is valid in itself.

Do you claim to be walking on the same level as Paul? As Jesus? More like Luther...who was so deluded that he concocted a scheme that wrested the truth from the bible and turned it inside out...justifying the flesh and claiming great swelling things...building sepulchers on high,

And judgment is coming for all who have adopted the great delusion. God Himself has sent that delusion to be accepted by all who hate the truth...who hate their brothers who are in the truth.

The spirit of Cain is here...the spirit of Amalek. These are the crows that come to destroy the truth...for the sake of their offended flesh.

When you say...all believers, you seem to have no idea that half of ALL believers will be rejected. Jesus speaks of the ministers in His name being rejected. And you have the gall to ignore all the warnings and only accept what builds up your religious outer man. Well, no wonder so many will be rejected. And more here in the rich West. One could ask...can any rich, spoiled Westerner ever enter into the kingdom?

Jesus said how hard it is for the rich to enter.

Do you ever read Jesus' words? or just Paul's...as interpreted by the rabid monk Luther?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Sister, more than once I've resisted the temptation to point out the irony recently.

It’s okay. I know you’re doing the best you can. But I’m not going to ever treat seriously anyone whose sole intent to enter a thread is to attack and tear down rather than discuss. I will always answer nonsense with nonsensical animal videos. So everyone will have to bear with me or else ignore me. And I would do the same thing if I saw someone stalk every thread you went to to attack you too.

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you claim to be walking on the same level as Paul? As Jesus? More like Luther...who was so deluded that he concocted a scheme that wrested the truth from the bible and turned it inside out...justifying the flesh and claiming great a swelling things...building sepulchers on high,

And judgment is coming for all who have adopted the great delusion. God Himself has sent that delusion to be accepted by all who hate the truth...who hate their brothers who are in the truth.

The spirit of Cain is here...the spirit of Amalek. These are the crows that come to destroy the truth...for the sake of their offended flesh.

When you say...all believers, you seem to have no idea that half of ALL believers will be rejected. Jesus speaks of the ministers in His name being rejected. And you have the gall to ignore all the warnings and only accept what builds up your religious outer man. Well, no wonder so many will be rejected. And more here in the rich West. One could ask...can any rich, spoiled Westerner ever enter into the kingdom?

Jesus said how hard it is for the rich to enter.

Do you ever read Jesus' words? or just Paul's...as interpreted by the rabid monk Luther?

Brother you seem to just always stick to a pre-determined script rather than trying to hear what anyone else might bring. Like cement shoes weighing one down. We need wings to blow where the spirit is blowing and meet the Lord in the air, so to speak.

I don't hate you at all, where did you get that idea?