Nation born in a day in 1948?
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As to Israel being born 14/May/1948. Only worldly person would believe that rubbish and such as they do ! talk to an idiot who know nothing much of the Jews and you get the same answer, Israel was born 1948 dribble.
Not even the most devout in depth Jews claim that it's Israel, they hope it will become Israel tho. but it has not happened !
The State is a shocking display of nothing like the OT Israel was at all, the devout Jews are shocked at the 3rd rate so called Jews who are in outright violation of the OT Laws. all of the Fags would be killed if it was OT Israel.
Not even 15% of the Jews are worthy of anything regarding the OT Laws.
But as every worthy truly born again Christian knows, Christ Jesus has come in fact and one only has to come over to be Saved !
No one is worthy of God but truly born again Christians in fact because they are found ! the rest are Lost ?
Only fools talk about Jews, trying to idolise some sort of stupid lost Jew ? Why is that ! well it's because the one who rant about the so called Jews are not Saved in fact ! Because such a fool is not found in fact, so that's why they seek the so called Jew !
The only worthy Jews were found and Saved right back when Jesus went to Heaven and it was they who were the Christian Church in fact ! No stupid Goyim created the first Church Body of people, that came later.
The Jews who were lead astray from Jesus by this World that is full of Deceptions and Delusions, that was their path ! and remember the ones who crept in unawares ? well they worked to bastardise the Jews ! Look at all such in the OT as proof ! don't idolise one who claims to be a Jew ! just as one may claim to be a Christian in fact, as Jesus said of them saying Lord Lord ? for they do not know him as he said I never knew you ? They are on about this world ? Jesus is talking about the Kingdom of God !
So when one looks up to a Jew regarding God one is an total idiot ! Because they do not know God in fact, because no one can come to the Father through his only begotten Son ! as No one comes but through Christ Jesus in fact, the rest are only religious dupes and are Lost !
Under the Roof of Christ all are the same ! No Jew etc exist for all are as one ! for they are changed in Christ Jesus and serve a real life in Him, for they have been transformed. they do not seek this world of delusions and deceptions that all fools are in fact under !
But we who are in Christ Salvation are of the Kingdom of God ! for we are not under such of this world. we are above that trash, as we understand the issue at hand.
Lord Rothschild built the State fools called Israel ! Lord Rothschild said so, it was all their creation in fact, Sure the sacrificed 6 million Jews to do it and some 70 million stupid Goyim fools, but that's what a Burnt sacrifice is all about ?
Does Christ Jesus want Burnt Sacrifice ? No !
So all who call the 6 million Jews a Holocaust are stupid or of Satan !
Now I can understand a so called Jew or some fool calling such a Holocaust, because they are lost and clearly not worthy of God.
Such people are invoking Satan !
All Lord Rothschild's and Co creation ! it was, they created and controlled Communism and the all the Nazi BS. One can see it clearly was all a game played out on fools that danced to the tune played by Rothschild's and Co. W Churchill said about WW2 that he could not truly care that the Nazis were on about or Communism ? W C said on TV, they could of won the War without firing a shot. But they wanted to win markets.
They needed to set it all up for themselves ! They play Games how they please. Same with nowadays and get away with it all easy as pie, kicking off Wars with no regard and not even questioned, the MSM is totally owned and that's all that the majority bother with, a one sided story with no regard otherwise. Just like Nazi Germany was and every Communist trash dictatorship, dominating over the people.
They idolise Zelensky in Ukraine but he is a Tyrant and mass murderer total evil nut case. all because of Joe Biden's intent to hide his arse from his Sons dealings and the Labs that created COVID in Ukraine, as it's the only place in the world that has freedom to do what it likes with such stuff, because it's a no mans land Legally on such things, but China and Russia can not get away with such things under international Laws as their are agreements set forward regarding such things, that's why the USA had invested in Ukraine Labs.
So we see in every Nation we have criminals within be it left wing or right wing. Just look at the history of the Drug trade and the Games that are played. Are we winning on the Drug War ? why not ? well their is no war on such at all truly. another deception !
Since God Personally was there and leading them day and night there is no need to invoke some natural fluke theory.Hi, everyone! I am brand new here - found this thread via a search engine. I have a couple of thoughts that may seem superficial at first glance, but in fact I have spent a lifetime developing them. I lay no claim to knowing God's mysterious ways, but I will throw in my two cents on this topic.
First and foremost: Coming from a denomination steeped in theology, I have watched myriad scholars insist they KNOW with 100% certainty that they are right about whatever. They cannot ALL be right. Therefore, pride... hubris... is getting in the way. There ARE things we can KNOW. Most minor points of doctrine and eschatology are NOT among them. Given that, we should all be HUMBLE in our offerings of thought, as Christ has taught us and commanded us. I have been greatly dismayed at some of the vitriol launched toward brothers and sisters in Christ. It is so easy to write what we would never say in person. I have been guilty of the same.
Second, and more to the point of the thread: I find ALL of the information herein fascinating! In recent years, I have struggled to reconcile the different ways of interpreting prophecies with what we have seen in history and are seeing currently. It occurred to me that excellent human story-writers generally don't write simple plot lines but rather sprinkle their works with foreshadowing, symbolism, suspense, and repeated themes. If God is the ultimate story-writer, would not He do those things perfectly? Of course! Is it not then possible that the Preterists are partly right when they read many End Time prophecies and see them align wonderfully with the years leading up to AD 70 and the destruction of Jerusalem - the end of the JEWISH Age, and the ushering in of that of the Gentiles? Ohhh, but all those "signs of the times"! SURELY we are seeing those today! Yes, we do seem to be. And many times in the past, our ancestors have been quite certain THEY were seeing those signs. Could it not be that both are true? That those symbolic prophecies spoke of the end of the Jewish Age but ALSO of the end of all things? Must God confine it to ONE event in history?
Third: When I was young, I scoffed at people trying to explain God's miracles by "natural" means. I saw it as a faithless belittling of God's works. But over time I realized that just because such a thing could happen by "natural" means, doesn't diminish at all God's choice to make it happen at a certain time and place in a miraculous way. Take the crossing of the Red Sea for example. There is (I am told) a "land bridge" at a certain place across the Red Sea. With a strong East wind, the waters can actually be "piled up" such that the land is laid bare and made crossable. If that wind suddenly ceases, the waters rushing back are ferocious and anyone caught on the "bridge" will surely die. (Napoleon is reported to have nearly lost his life in just that way.) If this IS what happened, does that negate God's hand in it? Surely not! What are the odds such a thing would happen JUST when Israel needed it and that the wind would suddenly stop JUST when in needed to in order to kill ALL of the Egyptians? Pretty much zero. Statistically speaking - impossible. Along that line... why should God NOT use nuclear weapons (or other man-made things/problems) to fulfill prophecy? Did He not make all? Did he not use evil kingdoms to do His will throughout the Old Testament? Does His use of such things make Him any less powerful? Of course not! He CAN speak and cause any calamity to happen as He wills it. But He CAN also use delicately interwoven pieces of history and man's will and the general degradation of all Creation -- and how much more intricate, all-knowing, and powerful is that? Pretty cool, really! I can teach by recounting a list of facts and shoulds/shouldn'ts, but how much more intelligent and forceful to teach by the Socratic method. I can fertilize and spray weeds and overseed and aerate my pastures constantly in order produce a good stand of forage. OR, I can use "natural" means to achieve the same result. It's more difficult; it takes much more learning and knowledge to pull it off. Blunt force versus finesse.
As for 70 AD there is zero possibility that could fulfill the things that happen in the end. Basically claiming it was all history is foolishness and unbelief.
Finally, I didn't see an opinion stated on the topic. (Whether Israel brought themselves back or God gathered them there already)
It would be wise to remember that God is not a story creator but the actual creator.
When Israel is born in a day what else happens?
Isaiah 66:7
Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
Isaiah 66:9
Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord : shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. Isaiah 66:10
Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
Isaiah 66:11
That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
Isaiah 66:12
For thus saith the Lord , Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
Her children are children of faith and believers. That is when God will bring them forth in a day. Should we rejoice today for the way Jerusalem is? Has He extended peace today? Is the glory of the Gentiles coming there now? Are we borne on her sides now? Can anyone be delighted in the abundant glory of Israel today?? No. In fact they are ripe for the judgments of God, the time of Jacob's trouble that God will bring.
I will rejoice when all Israel gets saved in the end. Only then will God bring them peace.
It was not in 1948 that this happened...
Isaiah 66:16
Isaiah 66:13
As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem
Isaiah 66:14
And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the Lord shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
Isaiah 66:15
For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
None of that was 1948.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
The nation born in a day was fulfilled. Just because the rest of the prophecies (yes there is more than one prophecy here) have not happened many have rejected the physical return pof Israel as biblical. It is and time will show.
1967 Israel regained all of Jerusalem
Teh blueprints and plans for the rebuilding of the temple are complete.
the ephods have been woven and the tools of sacrifice have been made.
Levites have been instructed in temple sacrifice.
All that is left is God allowing her to do so.
Davy
Well-Known Member
The Jews are the only ones having returned, and only a small portion of them. Events of 1948, 1967 did not fulfill God's promise to return all Israel to the land.
Because there is a prophecy in Zech.6 that shows Jesus will build the temple (millennial temple), the orthodox Jews will accept the pseudo-Christ that is to come first, and he will be behind their building their 3rd temple which Jesus will destroy at His coming.
God told Abraham that in the fourth age of the existence of his descendants that (some) will return to the Land of Canaan and that at that time the iniquities of the Amorite people will not yet be completed. God gave Abraham no undertaking in this prophecy that he would help Abraham's descendants to return to the land.
This prophecy was fulfilled in 1948 AD exactly 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac, who was the beginning of the Israelite nation.
Genesis 15:16: - In the fourth generation your descendants will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
Christ used the sign of the fig tree budding new leaves after Israel had been forcibly removed from the "remaining Promised Land as was promised in @ Chron 7:11ff
2 Chron 7:19-20: - 19 But if you turn away and forsake the statutes and commandments I have set before you, and if you go off to serve and worship other gods, 20then I will uproot Israel from the soil I have given them, and I will banish from My presence this temple I have sanctified for My Name. I will make it an object of scorn and ridicule among all the peoples.
In Jermiah 50-51, he tells us what must happen while the Israelites are seeking Mt Zion in the world. The 2 Chron 7:19-20 verses above describe what will occur when the iniquities of the fathers' is visited upon their children and the children's children during the third and the fourth age of their existence. The fourth age of the existence of the Israelites has not yet run its way to completion yet, and it still has another 20-25 years before this is so.
Ezekiel tells us that when God Gathers the Israelites to himself in our near future that He will plant them once more in the fertile soil of Christ and that He will teach them about the religion of Christ. (Ez 34). Jer 31:31ff tells us that when God has cleansed the Israelites, that he will sprinkle them with water so that He can make like new again the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession Among the Nations Covenant that he Had first made with them at Mt. Sinai.
When the fullness, with respect to time, of the Gentiles is completed, after that, those of Israel will be saved.
Sadly, we Christians tend to race ahead of God and His plans and muddy the waters so to speak as to what must happen in the revealing of God's Everlasting Kingdom.
Many Christians are blind as to the identities of the entities who have bit parts to play in God revealing of Himself to us.
Shalom
This prophecy was fulfilled in 1948 AD exactly 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac, who was the beginning of the Israelite nation.
Genesis 15:16: - In the fourth generation your descendants will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
Christ used the sign of the fig tree budding new leaves after Israel had been forcibly removed from the "remaining Promised Land as was promised in @ Chron 7:11ff
2 Chron 7:19-20: - 19 But if you turn away and forsake the statutes and commandments I have set before you, and if you go off to serve and worship other gods, 20then I will uproot Israel from the soil I have given them, and I will banish from My presence this temple I have sanctified for My Name. I will make it an object of scorn and ridicule among all the peoples.
In Jermiah 50-51, he tells us what must happen while the Israelites are seeking Mt Zion in the world. The 2 Chron 7:19-20 verses above describe what will occur when the iniquities of the fathers' is visited upon their children and the children's children during the third and the fourth age of their existence. The fourth age of the existence of the Israelites has not yet run its way to completion yet, and it still has another 20-25 years before this is so.
Ezekiel tells us that when God Gathers the Israelites to himself in our near future that He will plant them once more in the fertile soil of Christ and that He will teach them about the religion of Christ. (Ez 34). Jer 31:31ff tells us that when God has cleansed the Israelites, that he will sprinkle them with water so that He can make like new again the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession Among the Nations Covenant that he Had first made with them at Mt. Sinai.
When the fullness, with respect to time, of the Gentiles is completed, after that, those of Israel will be saved.
Sadly, we Christians tend to race ahead of God and His plans and muddy the waters so to speak as to what must happen in the revealing of God's Everlasting Kingdom.
Many Christians are blind as to the identities of the entities who have bit parts to play in God revealing of Himself to us.
Shalom
How abou the rest I posted from the same chapter? Or do you want to dissect a verse and apply it as you wish?
So what? Nothing about that suggests God restored and brought them back.
So what? Having some blasphemous silly temple one day has zero to do with whether GOD restored them.
A generation is 1000 years? Did the generation that dies in the wilderness with Moses last 1000 years? Will the generation that starts to see the signs in the end last 1000 years? etc No
Context, Context, Context is important in presenting your rebuttal. This is the verse in Numbers that I believe you are referencing in the quote above: -
Numbers 32:13: - 13The anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the whole generation who had done evil in His sight was gone.
Now what is the context of this verse? It is speaking of the generations that had done evil in God's sight after he had brought them out of Egypt.
You have presented a very different context to the Hebrew word with the Hebrew Root H:1755 which is found in both verses. In the case of Numbers 32:13 it is speaking of the generation/age of those who God had brought out of Egypt. In Matthew 24:34, it actual represents a time period of just season plus a little while which is slightly longer than a 1,000-year time period.
Generally, H:1755 has the same duration as a Day of the Lord, which can be counted on the ten digits of our hands.
If you had presented your rebuttal based on the right Context, then I would have agreed with you but you chose the wrong context. SO be it.
The definition from Hebrew of generation used in Gen 15 is as follows.
1) period, generation, habitation, dwelling
1a) period, age, generation (period of time)
1b) generation (those living during a period)
1c) generation (characterised by quality, condition, class of men)
1d) dwelling-place, habitation
That cannot be forced to mean 1000 years, sorry.
One commentary says this
16. In the fourth generation Evidently reckoning one hundred years as an average generation among these patriarchs .
Genesis 15 - Whedon's Commentary on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Genesis 15, Whedon's Commentary on the Bible, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary was written by Whedon, a central figure in the struggle between Calvinism & Arminianism
www.studylight.org
The verse before, for context says this
And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age
Nothing hinting 1000 years there.
Earlier in Genesis the word is used again, and once again has no relation to 1000 years.
And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation
Here it talks about Noah and the people he was living with on earth in his time.
In one commentary we see this
Gen 15"16. In the fourth generation Evidently reckoning one hundred years as an average generation among these patriarchs .
Genesis 15 - Whedon's Commentary on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Genesis 15, Whedon's Commentary on the Bible, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary was written by Whedon, a central figure in the struggle between Calvinism & Arminianism
www.studylight.org
There is no need to demand that a generation be 1000 years here! (or anywhere else in the bible as pointed out earlier)
Another commentary agrees with the one above
"fourth generation after its oppression, from which we may infer that a hundred years are reckoned as a generation"
Genesis 15 - Lange's Commentary on the Holy Scriptures: Critical, Doctrinal and Homiletical - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Genesis 15, Lange's Commentary on the Holy Scriptures: Critical, Doctrinal and Homiletical, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary has been valued for generations and consulted by Bible scholars everywhere
www.studylight.org
And yet another
"Fourth, &c. after the 400 years are finished; during which period of time"
Genesis 15 - Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Genesis 15, Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary was originally compiled by priest and biblical scholar Rev. George Leo Haydock.
www.studylight.org
And another
"fourth generation of those that descended thither; for Moses and Aaron were the fourth from Levi, or Eleazar from Kohath, and Caleb from Judah; or rather this was in the fourth age or century from the birth of Isaac, when the four hundred were up before mentioned, men living at that time about an hundred years"
Genesis 15 - Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Genesis 15, Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this verse-by-verse commentary contain gems of information found nowhere outside the ancient Jewish writings
www.studylight.org
And another
"As the four generations are identical with the four centuries of Genesis 15:13"
Genesis 15 - Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Genesis 15, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary, by Charles Ellicott has been an oft consulted resource by many a preacher!
www.studylight.org
and another
"fourth = Levi, Kohath, Amram, Moses; (or Levi), Jochebed (born in Egypt)."
Genesis 15 - Bullinger's Companion Bible Notes - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Genesis 15, Bullinger's Companion Bible Notes, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary, by E.W. Bullinger, has stood the test of tine as an incredible resource for the diligent student.
www.studylight.org
and...etc
"16. In the fourth generation Evidently reckoning one hundred years as an average generation among these patriarchs ."
Genesis 15 - Whedon's Commentary on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Genesis 15, Whedon's Commentary on the Bible, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary was written by Whedon, a central figure in the struggle between Calvinism & Arminianism
www.studylight.org
Your attempt to get this to meet 1948 therefore is weak and out of context with the rest of the bible it seems
Any commentary written before 1948 or even in the years prior, lets say 1848 or earlier the authors did not or could not perceive that Genesis 15:16 was referring to 1948 when some of Abrham's descendant returned to the land of Canaan in their own strength.
I have a Book Authored by J Barton Payne copy righted by him 1973 with the title of "Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy. The complete Guide to Scriptural Predictions and their Fulfilment." He drew from many scholars in his presentation in the book, but he did not perceive that Genesis 15:16 was independent of Genesis 15:13-14 which spoke of God's bring Israel out of Egypt to go up to the Land of Canaan.
His book is so out of date now that it bears little to the prophecies that have been fulfilled even in our present time.
In reading the linked commentary, I discerned that most of them used language like: - "Evidently reckoning one hundred years as an average generation among these patriarchs." In other words, the last reference was clutching at straws to justify his position. Some of the others also used the same type of argument to justify their position.
Now I am happy to accept that you disagree with me, and I understand why you disagree. I could be wrong just like you could be wrong, but time will confirm whether or not that is so. Matt 24:32 links the budding of leaves on the fig tree was a signpost for when the end of the age would be and when God will establish His everlasting kingdom during the time of those kings who make up the fifth segment of the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy.
It is my belief that the Armageddon gathering of the kings in our near future will be at the end of this present age and from the Matt 24:32 prophecy, we can discern that the end of the age will be some time after the year 2040, within the tolerances for that calculation of plus or minus 5 or so years.
If Armageddon happen when I believe it will the Judgement of the Kings of the earth at that time as well as the heavenly hosts will confirm to me, if I am still alive at that time as to the validity of my POV.
Shalom
So they lacked your special perception. I see. The way generation was used must be changed by you to fit what you think is an important date.
I Guess that means that the the iniquity of the Amorites was full. "the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full" So explain how it was full in 1948? Ha
Regardless of some out of date book, what is your proof? What was 'fulfilled' in our time exactly regarding the verse? The iniquity of the amorites was full?
That would be a patently ridiculous claim. What Amonites where? Why 1948?
Well, apparently they tried to reconcile events that happened after Abraham with the actual time involved that they happened in!
That just means that when we see the signs begin to happen, like a tree blooming, it is near.
Armageddon is at the end of the last seven years and Tribulation. No connection to 2040. (except that you arbitrarily inserted a date for no apparent reason)
I you are here at the battle of Armageddon that means you missed the Rapture.
Exactly! Robert Noulette though DEFIES God's Written Word Ezekiel 20, which READS: "38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: [Israel and the Jews!] I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye [God's People everywhere "scattered"] shall know that I am the Lord."
Ezekiel says that Israel or and the Jews WILL FINALLY, BE EXPOSED FOR NEVER HAVING BEEN "MY PEOPLE" Gods, People.
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It is after that time of purging or the time of Jacob's trouble that all Israel get saved, and then God restores them, protects them, brings them to the promised land etc. I do not see any evidence from Robert or others that that happened in 1948
Not sure what you mean. Of course He will save them one day and restore them, that is not any question or debatable. The issue is when. Some claim God already brought them back and is making the desert bloom like a rose etc etc.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but your sense of Biblical timelines is way............. off.
God speaking to Abram (Abraham):
Gen 15:13-16
13 And He said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
KJV
1. "thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs" = Egypt
2. "and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years" = the children of Israel as slaves in Egypt.
3. "And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge..." = Pharaoh and Egypt
4. "... in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." = after the 400 years that the children of Israel would serve under Egypt. Then they would return back to the land God promised Abram, which is where the Amorites in that time were dwelling and in iniquity.
THAT... return to the holy land was 400 years after God had said that to Abraham, NOT 1948, which instead is way... off! The above timing was only about the children of Israel FIRST ENTERING the promised lands! They hadn't even become a 'nation' yet at that time, having just left Egypt!
Sorry to embarrass you, but you need to pay better attention to the Scripture and think.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Yes, his idea is way... out of context with the Scripture.
Anyone who 'carefully' reads that Genesis 15:13-16 passage and realizes that the 400 years and the 4th generation are the same thing God is speaking about, along with His punishing that nation which the children of Israel were slaves under, ought to make it easy to figure what time their return to the lands of promise then was. That would be the time of Moses and Joshua.
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