What is "Parousia"?

[keithr]

Soul sleep is a false doctrine = so is adding to God's words what HE did not say.

Jesus, speaking of the death of Lazarus, said, John 11:11 (WEB):

(11) He said these things, and after that, he said to them, “Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.”​

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The majority of Bible translatons translate 1 Cor. 15:51 as "shall not sleep". The Greek word is koimao, which means 'to cause to sleep, put to sleep'. Very few translate it as "shall not die" - the Living Bible does, but that is not a word for word translation, it paraphrases. Likewise the NLT, which Wikipedia states, quoting from 'The Complete Guide to Bible translations', by Ron Rhodes:

It has been suggested that this "thought-for-thought" methodology, while making the translation easier to understand, is less accurate than a literal (formal equivalence) method, and thus the New Living Translation may not be suitable for those wishing to undertake detailed study of the Bible.​

Dead bodies will NOT be falling to the ground as we are CHANGED and TRANSFORMED into GLORY.

Indeed. That is why I wrote "our human body will be dissolved away and exist no more". As Paul wrote, 2 Corinthians 5 (WEB):

(1) For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.​

(2) For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven;​

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus, speaking of the death of Lazarus, said, John 11:11 (WEB):

(11) He said these things, and after that, he said to them, “Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.”​

The majority of Bible translatons translate 1 Cor. 15:51 as "shall not sleep". The Greek word is koimao, which means 'to cause to sleep, put to sleep'. Very few translate it as "shall not die" - the Living Bible does, but that is not a word for word translation, it paraphrases. Likewise the NLT, which Wikipedia states, quoting from 'The Complete Guide to Bible translations', by Ron Rhodes:

It has been suggested that this "thought-for-thought" methodology, while making the translation easier to understand, is less accurate than a literal (formal equivalence) method, and thus the New Living Translation may not be suitable for those wishing to undertake detailed study of the Bible.​

Indeed. That is why I wrote "our human body will be dissolved away and exist no more". As Paul wrote, 2 Corinthians 5 (WEB):

(1) For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.​

(2) For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven;​

Sleep is a metaphor for death in Scripture referring to the DEATH of a physical body = No exceptions - period.

Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead."

WHY is 'sleep' used???

Because of CHRIST = RESURRECTION

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt. Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever - Daniel 12:1-3

Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus, speaking of the death of Lazarus, said, John 11:11 (WEB):

(11) He said these things, and after that, he said to them, “Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.”​

The majority of Bible translatons translate 1 Cor. 15:51 as "shall not sleep". The Greek word is koimao, which means 'to cause to sleep, put to sleep'. Very few translate it as "shall not die" - the Living Bible does, but that is not a word for word translation, it paraphrases. Likewise the NLT, which Wikipedia states, quoting from 'The Complete Guide to Bible translations', by Ron Rhodes:

It has been suggested that this "thought-for-thought" methodology, while making the translation easier to understand, is less accurate than a literal (formal equivalence) method, and thus the New Living Translation may not be suitable for those wishing to undertake detailed study of the Bible.​

Indeed. That is why I wrote "our human body will be dissolved away and exist no more". As Paul wrote, 2 Corinthians 5 (WEB):

(1) For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.​

(2) For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven;​

See if you can SEE Post #182

 

[keithr]

Sleep is a metaphor for death in Scripture referring to the DEATH of a physical body = No exceptions - period.
etc.

I agree, that is correct.

 

[David in NJ]

I agree, that is correct.

Do you agree with = "Jesus said to them plainly - Lazarus is dead."

 

[keithr]

Do you agree with = "Jesus said to them plainly - Lazarus is dead."

Of course. Lazarus had died, or had "fallen asleep" as Jesus put it, and was currently dead, or "asleep"; hence Jesus said "I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep".

 

[David in NJ]

Of course. Lazarus had died, or had "fallen asleep" as Jesus put it, and was currently dead, or "asleep"; hence Jesus said "I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep".

OK then - Now that you believe Lazarus was dead - then you should also believe that his dead body came back to life.

What is the purpose of God raising 'dead bodies' from the grave/dust of the earth when HE Returns?

 

[keithr]

What is the purpose of God raising 'dead bodies' from the grave/dust of the earth when HE Returns?

To give them the opportunity to have eternal life, by believing in God and Jesus, and to become perfect humans during Christ's 1,000 year reign. For the Church, the dead will be raised as incorruptible and immortal spirit beings in the first resurrection, moments before the rapture occurs ("the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed" to be like them - 1Co 15:52).

 

[rwb]

You said: Because death is appointed or awaits all men.

You, again, are adding to God's words what HE did not say in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-51

Hebrews 9:27 speaks of sin causing death to all men, therefore Christ came and bore our sins!
Therefore when HE Returns - we who are alive will not experience death = we will be Transformed from mortal to Imortal.

Hebrews 9:28 "unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto Salvation."

There is No Death in JESUS our SALVATION at His Coming.

There is NO DEATH in Hebrews 9:28 = stop adding to God's words, which is sin.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

Every human is born in sin with a mortal, corruptible body destined from the fall to die. The promise is not that some will NEVER physically die, but that those who die in Christ will NEVER die the second death which is the lake of fire.

Believers who are alive when Christ comes again will be changed from mortal, corruptible body to immortal, incorruptible physical body, fit to live with Christ forever on the new earth.

Hebrews 9:27 is clearly stated, EVERY mortal human is appointed/reserved to physically die. The cross of Christ made atonement for all sin done by mortal humans. For those who believe, the cross of Christ assures none of them will come into condemnation of the SECOND death, which shall be FOREVER to all who are condemned. NEVER does the cross of Christ promise faithful, mortal human beings will not physically die. For all who physically die in Christ, like those who are still physically alive at His coming will be changed from mortal, corruptible human flesh, to immortal, incorruptible human flesh. Together with their eternal spirit which returns with Christ from heaven, with those raised immortal, incorruptible human flesh will once more be as man was created in the beginning when God pronounced everything "very good", before sin, and death through sin entered into God's glorious creation. To become immortal and incorruptible the old man must be put to death for the new immortal, incorruptible body with eternal spirit to be fit for everlasting life with Christ on the new earth.

 

[David in NJ]

To give them the opportunity to have eternal life, by believing in God and Jesus, and to become perfect humans during Christ's 1,000 year reign. For the Church, the dead will be raised as incorruptible and immortal spirit beings in the first resurrection, moments before the rapture occurs ("the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed" to be like them - 1Co 15:52).

The opportunity for Eternal Life MUST be embraced BEFORE the Resurrection.

Here is your opportunity and Entrance Requirement = Acts ch17 - Read carefully so you do not miss it

ATTENTION keithr - This is a PASS or FAIL exam. The exam takes place in your heart before LORD Jesus Christ

Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious;
for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their pre-appointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising.
Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained.
He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[David in NJ]

Every human is born in sin with a mortal, corruptible body destined from the fall to die. The promise is not that some will NEVER physically die, but that those who die in Christ will NEVER die the second death which is the lake of fire.

Believers who are alive when Christ comes again will be changed from mortal, corruptible body to immortal, incorruptible physical body, fit to live with Christ forever on the new earth.

Hebrews 9:27 is clearly stated, EVERY mortal human is appointed/reserved to physically die. The cross of Christ made atonement for all sin done by mortal humans. For those who believe, the cross of Christ assures none of them will come into condemnation of the SECOND death, which shall be FOREVER to all who are condemned. NEVER does the cross of Christ promise faithful, mortal human beings will not physically die. For all who physically die in Christ, like those who are still physically alive at His coming will be changed from mortal, corruptible human flesh, to immortal, incorruptible human flesh. Together with their eternal spirit which returns with Christ from heaven, with those raised immortal, incorruptible human flesh will once more be as man was created in the beginning when God pronounced everything "very good", before sin, and death through sin entered into God's glorious creation. To become immortal and incorruptible the old man must be put to death for the new immortal, incorruptible body with eternal spirit to be fit for everlasting life with Christ on the new earth.

Hebrews 9:28 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51 and 1 John 3:1-3 rebuke your error

NO DEATH for living Believers in these Scriptures that ALL pertain to His Second Coming

The IRONY of this thread upon those who reject God's words by adding their own...............


God says Enoch did not die = You and others say "Enoch did die"

God says Believers will not die at His Coming = "You say yes they will"

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not experience death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”;
for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
But without faith it is impossible to please Him,
for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Unbelief will always have a person seeking to elevate carnal intellect over what God says.........

 

[rwb]

Unbelief will always have a person seeking to elevate carnal intellect over what God says.........

Is this what you are struggling with, and why you must insert unbiblical opinion into God's Word? Pray that God might help you in your unbelief!

 

[keithr]

The opportunity for Eternal Life MUST be embraced BEFORE the Resurrection.

Only for Christians, for those called to share in Jesus' inheritance, as his bride. The rest of mankind, especially those that have never heard of God (YHVH) and Jesus during their lives, are not abandoned by God - they will have opportunity for eternal life during the 1,000 year reign (they're who Christ and his bride reign over!). God "desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth" (1Ti 2:4), for "God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (1Ti 4:10). 1 John 4:14 (WEB):

(14) We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.​

 

[David in NJ]

Is this what you are struggling with, and why you must insert unbiblical opinion into God's Word? Pray that God might help you in your unbelief!

Your carnal/unbiblical mind is at war against God's words.

"the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be"

Instead of you submitting to God's words you seek to override them with your own and when that failed you attempt to use scripture against scripture.

This same tactic is was used by satan against Christ = Matthew 4:1-7

 

[David in NJ]

Only for Christians, for those called to share in Jesus' inheritance, as his bride. The rest of mankind, especially those that have never heard of God (YHVH) and Jesus during their lives, are not abandoned by God - they will have opportunity for eternal life during the 1,000 year reign (they're who Christ and his bride reign over!). God "desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth" (1Ti 2:4), for "God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (1Ti 4:10). 1 John 4:14 (WEB):

(14) We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.​

LORD Jesus is the Savior/YHWH of all men who believe on HIM = John 3:16

If a man/woman rejects CHRIST all the way to the grave, then they will never be saved = John 3:18

If a person claims to know Him but does not "bow the knee, the heart and confess that Jesus is LORD" - then no Entrance into His Kingdom.

 

[rwb]

Your carnal/unbiblical mind is at war against God's words.

"the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be"

Instead of you submitting to God's words you seek to override them with your own and when that failed you attempt to use scripture against scripture.

I fear you are still struggling with unbelief? Very sad!

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you agree with = "Jesus said to them plainly - Lazarus is dead."

Then he told them plainly . YEP . When this mortal shall have breathed his last present with the glorious KING .
Death shall not be tasted . PRAISE THE KING GLORY HALLELUJAH .
Those here at HIS COMING , his lambs will instantly also be changed .
It wont be like suddenly there are all these dead bodies . NOPE that group is INSTANTLY transformed .
Folks forget something . It aint like the apostels went into the tomb and saw a dead body
and then JESUS was somehow walking around in a new one . IT WAS INSTANT CHANGE .
exactly LET THE KING BE PRAISED and ER hand raised to the LORD .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Revelation 1:7 is not talking about our literal eyes. It means the world will recognize Christ’s presence by the establishment of His righteous kingdom on Earth. (Zechariah 14:3.) All will be resurrected. (John 5:28-29) Additionally, “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea.” (Isaiah 11:9 NKJV) Mankind will be restored to perfect health. (Isaiah 35:4-10)

Eventually, every eye shall discern Him and know that the Lord is present!

This watchtower teaching is so wrong on so many levels.

Teh word in REv. for see is "optomai" and in the Greek only means to visibly see.

Parousia does mean presence but for the rest of the definition it means either a proximate presence (by your side) or relative presence) somewhere near)

IN MAtt. 24 Jesus said that His return will be liek the lightening flashing! that is not an invisible but very visible sign.

Jesus even warned people about those who teach Jesus has returned and is in the "secret chambers" (returned but secretly).

 

[amigo de christo]

Every human is born in sin with a mortal, corruptible body destined from the fall to die. The promise is not that some will NEVER physically die, but that those who die in Christ will NEVER die the second death which is the lake of fire.

Believers who are alive when Christ comes again will be changed from mortal, corruptible body to immortal, incorruptible physical body, fit to live with Christ forever on the new earth.

Hebrews 9:27 is clearly stated, EVERY mortal human is appointed/reserved to physically die. The cross of Christ made atonement for all sin done by mortal humans. For those who believe, the cross of Christ assures none of them will come into condemnation of the SECOND death, which shall be FOREVER to all who are condemned. NEVER does the cross of Christ promise faithful, mortal human beings will not physically die. For all who physically die in Christ, like those who are still physically alive at His coming will be changed from mortal, corruptible human flesh, to immortal, incorruptible human flesh. Together with their eternal spirit which returns with Christ from heaven, with those raised immortal, incorruptible human flesh will once more be as man was created in the beginning when God pronounced everything "very good", before sin, and death through sin entered into God's glorious creation. To become immortal and incorruptible the old man must be put to death for the new immortal, incorruptible body with eternal spirit to be fit for everlasting life with Christ on the new earth.

The body dies for the soul departs to the LORD . That is correct . Our soul wont taste it we go home with THE KING .
THERE is a generation , however that wont die , their own bodies will instantly be transformed .
Those who are HIS and still here on earth at HIS COMING .
As for paul , stephen and many others they too waited for His coming . But this indeed is that generation
that will in an instant be changed , wont be buried , their bodies wont even be here as were pauls and others who
went on to be with the LORD . NO these bodies will be changed INSTANTLY , for those who were still walking and breathing
AT HIS COMING . THERE IS another event which has yet to occur . MANY through all generations
waited for it . THEY DiD wait for HIS COMING . But this gen GETS TOO SEE IT .
THE SIGNS have SWOLLEN FULL and the TIME IS AT HAND . BUT WOE to those who are not HIS on thatday .
THEY GO UNDER the WRATH OF GOD . those are the beast and those who followed it .
The wrath of man and of the beast cometh against the saints , but the wrath of GOD cometh against the beast and those
who followed it .

 

[amigo de christo]

This watchtower teaching is so wrong on so many levels.

Teh word in REv. for see is "optomai" and in the Greek only means to visibly see.

Parousia does mean presence but for the rest of the definition it means either a proximate presence (by your side) or relative presence) somewhere near)

IN MAtt. 24 Jesus said that His return will be liek the lightening flashing! that is not an invisible but very visible sign.

Jesus even warned people about those who teach Jesus has returned and is in the "secret chambers" (returned but secretly).

yah about the watch tower . I wouldnt follow that to even burger king . That place is a mess my friend .