The folly of Preterism

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WPM

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Preterists have to ignore/reject many clear Scriptures that teach a prolonged period of time in-between the two comings of Christ. That is because what they have been taught contradicts the clear and repeated teaching of the NT. I want to look at some of the strong biblical evidence that forbids Preterism. This is just one of many issues that negate this doctrine.

They overlook what the Lord taught in Matthew 25:14: For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.”

We find parallel accounts in Mark 13 and Luke 19. In Mark’s account we learn: “For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch” (Mark 13:34).

In Luke 19:12-13 we read: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.”

As we piece these 3 accounts together, we grasp the fulness of the whole parable. Here Christ is speaking of the intra-Advent period. He is talking about the kingdom authority that was delegated to God’s people during the intra-Advent period. These servants were given “authority” and ordered to “Occupy till I come.” This assignment is still ongoing. The kingdom is still growing, and will do until the end (His coming), when it will be handed over to His Father. We are still ruling and reigning "in Christ." The gates of hell cannot prevail aginst the Church of Jesus Christ on this earth in this intra-Advent period. We are still invading the devil's kingdom with the glorious Gospel of Christ. Men and women, boys and girls, are still getting saved. We are still in the day of salvation. That ends when Jesus returns.

Jesus continues in Matthew 25:19-30: After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord."

Here is a picture of the final judgment that occurs at the all-consummating return of Jesus. This comes after a long protracted period where their service would be accounted. This has not happened yet. This is still future!

The reference in this parable to the “nobleman” who “went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return” clearly relates to the Lord Jesus Christ and His ascension into heaven. This assumption is supported by the words of Christ at the end of this parable (in verse 27) when He personalizes the story of the ‘certain nobleman’ by saying, “those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”

Jesus taught us that the gap between His first and second comings would be so long it would result in the scoffing of the ungodly. Diligence and patience would be required from the redeemed.

When you examine the record of each parallel you will see that they all conclude with the glorious climatic second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is when the general resurrection is. That is when the general judgment is. These are all related to the final event.

Does the Bible contradict itself? Why in places in the New Testament does it present the coming of the Lord as “at hand,” “near” or coming “quickly” or “shortly” while in other places it is presented as “after a long time”? In fact, the duration of the intra-Advent period is so long that the religious cynics mock the reality and realization of the second coming. Jesus details their contempt in Matthew 24:48: My lord delayeth his coming.”

These fools arrive at this foolish conclusion because of the protracted wait between the Lord's 2 Advents. We are still in that long period in-between. Preterists foolishly mock the blessed hope held by sincere Christians in regards to the Lord's literal physical visible return for His people.

Jesus continues in Mark 13:35–37: “Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

Jesus said in the other parallel passage in Luke 19:15: “And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.”

We haven’t seen the reward of the righteous and the reward of the wicked yet. This is a picture of Judgment Day. Jesus says of the hypocrite in Luke 19:23, 26-27: “Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? … For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”

Christ is currently king. He is still reigning over His people. He is still reigning over His enemies. All power and authority has been given unto Him in heaven and on earth. That did not terminate in AD70. He has not yet returned in majesty and power to rescue His elect, destroy the wicked and remove all the bondage of corruption.

What is more, we are constantly exhorted through the teaching of Christ and the New Testament writers to “watch” and be “ready” for Jesus’ climatic return when He will raise and judge mankind. It is only then where mankind will be apportioned their just and final reward. If He had already returned then what have we to prepare for and watch?
 
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WPM

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Revelation 20:1-5 teaches: "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

A thousand years is simply a simile for a long period of time. The figure "a thousand" is used repeatedly in Scripture to mean a long period of time or a large amount. Revelation is no different Revelation is saturated in figurative language and symbolic numerology. This same sense can be found in the usage of “one hour” in Revelation 17:12 where the beast is said to reign with the “ten kings” “one hour.” Is this describing a literal sixty minutes period? Of course not! It is a figurative phrase, as is the "one thousand" period. It means a short period of time. This is the complete anthesis of "a thousand" which describes a prolonged period of time.

Revelation 20:1-5 describes the authority Jesus secured through His resurrection (the first resurrection). He cast Satan out of heaven and then restrained him with spiritual chains so that the Gospel could enlighten the nations. Satan's defeat came after the resurrection. The first resurrection opened up the Gospel to the nations! Christ’s first resurrection was the start of the evangelization of the Gentiles. Most people see that in the New Testament. The Gentiles are depicted in the OT as being outside of hope, blind, in gross darkness, rebellious, bound in chains and in a prison. That all changed after the resurrection of Christ. The NT is a picture of Gentile evangelizing.

We should note in this passage, the enlightening of the Gentiles (or) ethnos is carefully connected to the first resurrection of Christ. It is only through this powerful event that the deception that smothered the Gentiles was lifted. Moreover, the binding of Satan is expressly connected to the enlightenment of the Gentiles (or) ethnos. The general broad deception that engulfed the Gentiles in ignorance and darkness is lifted. They now can receive if they believe. That does not suggest the majority will.

Revelation 20 finishes at the coming of Christ and the one-and-only general resurrection/judgment of all mankind.

This all negates the Preterist paradigm that is fixated with the coming of Titus in AD70. Preterists find themselves in the camp of the scoffers mocking the reality of, and the supposed delay in, the glorious climactic return of Christ.

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai]: with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

What is the focus here (and that of the rest of the NT)? Is it Titus or Jesus?What is the promise? Is it AD70 or the final climactic return of Christ, which includes the general resurrection/judgment of the living and the dead and the introduction of the new perfect eternal state?

Peter highlights the derision of the fools who question the Lord's future coming.

James 5:7-9: Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative]. Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Christians require patience in waiting for the Lord’s return. That is because it would take time!

James, speaking 2000 years ago, testified that the coming of the Lord was approaching in the future. The personal reality of that had drew near to the Lord’s disciple back in the day. It was impending for him back 2000 years ago. The approaching of Jesus return was indeed a past reality for James, as he has now left this earth and is now gone. But that was literally and experientially true for him then, as it is true for us today. We can therefore say the same in our day: “the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” Eggizo is indeed a verb that is in the perfect tense, and thus it was a completed reality for James. That does not negate the ongoing reality of Christ impending return for us.

Christians require patience in waiting for the Lord’s return. That is because it would take a long time!

This all negates the Preterist paradigm that is fixated with the coming of Titus in AD70. It negates the Preterist view that the second coming occurred in AD70.
 
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MatthewG

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My personal belief is that everyone will end up seeing Jesus at the end of life now today. That is why when reading the word of Jesus when he stated “heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words will never pass away” this signifies to me that death is a reality and the sky and land will pass away from our eyes one day, but the promises of Christ remain and continue to be heard for generations to come, and many coming into a never ending kingdom.

It most certainly takes time, to be patience and ask for the Father to help you by the spirit knowing that the holy spirt of God and the love of God is upon your heart, even to be patient to read and take time out spent reading the Bible.

The hope is being able to go and be with the Father and the Son and family believers one day after this life. Having faith; hope; and love, looking towards the eternal aspect that awaits in the after life. If the desire is to grow as a child of God, and become mature in Christ, make that one’s mission to do so in faith.

Therefore many do say, be ready for the lord draws near; but the day of death is unknown, so continue to be on your feet and ready if you are so lead to do those things. To know the living God and the one whom he had sent is eternal life.
 

WPM

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My personal belief is that everyone will end up seeing Jesus at the end of life now today. That is why when reading the word of Jesus when he stated “heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words will never pass away” this signifies to me that death is a reality and the sky and land will pass away from our eyes one day, but the promises of Christ remain and continue to be heard for generations to come, and many coming into a never ending kingdom.

It most certainly takes time, to be patience and ask for the Father to help you by the spirit knowing that the holy spirt of God and the love of God is upon your heart, even to be patient to read and take time out spent reading the Bible.

The hope is being able to go and be with the Father and the Son and family believers one day after this life. Having faith; hope; and love, looking towards the eternal aspect that awaits in the after life. If the desire is to grow as a child of God, and become mature in Christ, make that one’s mission to do so in faith.

Therefore many do say, be ready for the lord draws near; but the day of death is unknown, so continue to be on your feet and ready if you are so lead to do those things. To know the living God and the one whom he had sent is eternal life.

What then are the NT original Greek words for a literal "earth" and a literal "heaven," or do they even exist in your esoteric Full Preterist theology?
 
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MatthewG

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Free use website: Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages check dictionary / Greek - on whatever bible chapter and verse you wanna go check those words out, and see what they mean.

Free use bible program - www.e-sword.com - has free commentary, dictionary, and encyclopedias.

Also sometime language may not be literal. The Jewish people seen the temple, as Heaven and Earth. As its construction was like a mini-cosmic heaven and earth, because God would come in the inner most part the holy of holies. Also the brazen sea was out in the inner court.

This heaven and earth they knew was destroryed allowing for the new spiritual age which a person who has faith, has relationship with the Father through the Son and love God and love others. There is no more material place to go as far as the temple anymore and all of that generation of people whom were destroyed and ruined, took away priesthood, sacrifices, the Law, and opened up the doors to allow all to come to God through Christ because of his blood being accepted. Of course if they so choose to follow after Him.
 

WPM

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Free use website: Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages check dictionary / Greek - on whatever bible chapter and verse you wanna go check those words out, and see what they mean.

Free use bible program - www.e-sword.com - has free commentary, dictionary, and encyclopedias.

Also sometime language may not be literal. The Jewish people seen the temple, as Heaven and Earth. As its construction was like a mini-cosmic heaven and earth, because God would come in the inner most part the holy of holies. Also the brazen sea was out in the inner court.

This heaven and earth they knew was destroryed allowing for the new spiritual age which a person who has faith, has relationship with the Father through the Son and love God and love others. There is no more material place to go as far as the temple anymore and all of that generation of people whom were destroyed and ruined, took away priesthood, sacrifices, the Law, and opened up the doors to allow all to come to God through Christ because of his blood being accepted. Of course if they so choose to follow after Him.

You did not answer my question. You seem to have an inability to address counter-arguments. This is a trait of the Cults.

Where in Scripture does it say "the Jewish people seen the temple, as Heaven and Earth"? That is utter nonsense! Your teachers have misled you again.

What then are the NT original Greek words for a literal "earth" and a literal "heaven," or do they even exist in your esoteric Full Preterist theology?
 

MatthewG

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You did not answer my question. You seem to have an inability to address counter-arguments. This is a trait of the Cults.

Where in Scripture does it say "the Jewish people seen the temple, as Heaven and Earth"? That is utter nonsense! Your teachers have misled you again.

What then are the NT original Greek words for a literal "earth" and a literal "heaven," or do they even exist in your esoteric Full Preterist theology?

It’s a quote from Josephus, who lived in Jerusalem, and was from a family line of priest but he became a nonbeliever. He was born in 37Ad.
 

WPM

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It’s a quote from Josephus, who lived in Jerusalem, and was from a family line of priest but he became a nonbeliever. He was born in 37Ad.

Please give us it then.
 

MatthewG

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I can’t find it at this moment but perhaps later when do, I’ll share that with you. My head hurts some right now but consider.

However think about this for a moment.

When the Jewish people would go to the temple and sacrifice and go in once a year to the holy of Holies to give blood sacrifice to Yahweh to have their one year of forgiveness of sins. The priest would tie a rope around the waist of the one whom went in there in case they had to drag him out and he died, but If he lived and walked out it would mean the offering was accepted. God would show up here in this temple, and that would be the known sign it was taken, at least for on more year.

The temple is were heaven and earth united.

That temple was destroyed heaven and earth in how the administration worked before through going to the temple; which was through material means.

Now human beings are the temple that God dwells in, by the Holy Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. There is no more need to have to go to a priest or priest those prior ways things worked because Jesus fulfilled the Law, which by faith in him, he makes a person right with God because of his law completion is the righteousness of God, found in the Son of God. And now God is in control, and Jesus is the King.

Human beings suffer the temptations of the flesh, and the Holy Spirit of God, with Spirit of Christ fight against one another. The flesh vs the spirit, and the soul that needs rest is in need of being renewed in the word. And the flesh will die down the more one allows the spirit to come through instead, of the flesh that can cause harm to others or to one’s self. Strength is found in the Lord Jesus, to help overcome, and the Father is there to ask.

@WPM here you go EXCERPT: Revelation 21 - Information from commentary
 

WPM

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I can’t find it at this moment but perhaps later when do, I’ll share that with you. My head hurts some right now but consider.

However think about this for a moment.

When the Jewish people would go to the temple and sacrifice and go in once a year to the holy of Holies to give blood sacrifice to Yahweh to have their one year of forgiveness of sins. The priest would tie a rope around the waist of the one whom went in there in case they had to drag him out and he died, but If he lived and walked out it would mean the offering was accepted. God would show up here in this temple, and that would be the known sign it was taken, at least for on more year.

The temple is were heaven and earth united.

That temple was destroyed heaven and earth in how the administration worked before through going to the temple; which was through material means.

Now human beings are the temple that God dwells in, by the Holy Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. There is no more need to have to go to a priest or priest those prior ways things worked because Jesus fulfilled the Law, which by faith in him, he makes a person right with God because of his law completion is the righteousness of God, found in the Son of God. And now God is in control, and Jesus is the King.

Human beings suffer the temptations of the flesh, and the Holy Spirit of God, with Spirit of Christ fight against one another. The flesh vs the spirit, and the soul that needs rest is in need of being renewed in the word. And the flesh will die down the more one allows the spirit to come through instead, of the flesh that can cause harm to others or to one’s self. Strength is found in the Lord Jesus, to help overcome, and the Father is there to ask.

@WPM here you go EXCERPT: Revelation 21 - Information from commentary

No wonder your head hurts. This is all utter and complete Full Preterist nonsense. It is time to get your theology from the Bible not from Josephus, Jewish Kabbalism or your Full Preterist mentors. So far, you have failed to address one single Scripture or argument in the Op.
 

MatthewG

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No wonder your head hurts. This is all utter and complete Full Preterist nonsense. It is time to get your theology from the Bible not from Josephus, Jewish Kabbalism or your Full Preterist mentors. So far, you have failed to address one single Scripture or argument ion the Op.
No need to. Just sharing information. Thank you, and may you have a good day.
 

amigo de christo

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No wonder your head hurts. This is all utter and complete Full Preterist nonsense. It is time to get your theology from the Bible not from Josephus, Jewish Kabbalism or your Full Preterist mentors. So far, you have failed to address one single Scripture or argument in the Op.
Therein has always been his problem . He takes his notes and cues FROM UNBELIEVERS , NOT FROM THE BIBLE .
That is why he has gone down such a dangerous path .
 

MatthewG

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You and many others believe Jesus is coming today. That is okay. That is why there’s no reason to argue, you were told by me yesterday it’s by faith I believe Jesus came. There is no evidence, other than the words of Jesus and the apostles of a time that would never happen again, which comes from the entire narrative of Jesus and his mission to the lost sheep of Israel.
 

WPM

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You and many others believe Jesus is coming today. That is okay. That is why there’s no reason to argue, you were told by me yesterday it’s by faith I believe Jesus came. There is no evidence, other than the words of Jesus and the apostles of a time that would never happen again, which comes from the entire narrative of Jesus and his mission to the lost sheep of Israel.

See Op above why we believe what we believe. You clearly have no argument against it. Building your beliefs on Josephus, Jewish Kabbalism or your Full Preterist mentors is not smart.
 
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rwb

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You and many others believe Jesus is coming today. That is okay. That is why there’s no reason to argue, you were told by me yesterday it’s by faith I believe Jesus came. There is no evidence, other than the words of Jesus and the apostles of a time that would never happen again, which comes from the entire narrative of Jesus and his mission to the lost sheep of Israel.

No Matthew, it is you who sets a certain time for the return of Christ. As a Full Preterist you say He's already come. Most Christians of true biblical faith simply believe Christ shall come again at the appointed time when the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete. We don't speak of a certain date or time, because Scripture has not given us to know this. You do not speak as though you have faith in what is written in Scripture, rather your faith is dependent upon what you have been taught by others, of which some, like Josephus was an unbelieving Jewish Historian.
 
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MatthewG

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No Matthew, it is you who sets a certain time for the return of Christ. As a Full Preterist you say He's already come. Most Christians of true biblical faith simply believe Christ shall come again at the appointed time when the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete. We don't speak of a certain date or time, because Scripture has not given us to know this. You do not speak as though you have faith in what is written in Scripture, rather your faith is dependent upon what you have been taught by others, of which some, like Josephus was an unbelieving Jewish Historian.

It doesn’t matter to me if you don’t believe Jesus was coming back for people of that time or if you believe Jesus is coming back for people now today.

There is no reason for me to try and argue on the reasons why you shouldn’t believe Jesus and consider the very first Christian’s the bride of Christ that he came back to save from the wrath of God.

Either one believes it by faith; or they believe they will see it one day based on the faith they have.

Either way when the reality of death finally sets in.

To me all people will see Jesus after this life.

It may be similar to Jesus coming to give you judgment upon your resurrectional new spiritual body is given by and from God to live in. Then again I could be wrong.


But none of the things that are being said are badly outlandish.

Though to others it seems they are really chapped someone had the audacity to even suggest Jesus Christ has returned; people must think I am a darn right fool, and are deceived by the devil.

How could I be by trusting and believing Jesus and in faith believe he came to get his bride which was spotless and blameless?

It’s because people make the choice to say those people in the beginning don’t matter what matters is what us compared to them.

They were insignificant and we are more significant than they were.

One time I mentioned to a lady in sharing information about how the apostles were afraid when they had seen the Lord walking in the sea at night, after hearing me she said I wouldn’t have been afraid I seen him coming.

So it’s always the mindset, and how guarded you are to even consider Jesus and his coming back in that generation and the promises of the closing of the Mosaic age and opening the doors to all, through the age of fulfilment. Eschatology of course is the study also of these things, pertaining to the end of the age, when all things would be fulfilled.