Sanctification is not a Process

[Johann]

This is great stuff! And I also hunger for every nuance of God's Word, it's truth that sets us free, and everything in the Book is to bring us closer to Jesus, more like Him. And that's what we want!

--not really "experiencing" what I'm typing/quoting to you marks, but that is my cross to bear.

Num_14:31 However, I'll bring your little ones—the ones whom you claimed would become war victims—into the land so that they'll know by experience the land that you've rejected.

Num_14:34 Just as you explored the land for 40 days, you'll bear the consequences of your iniquities for 40 years—one year for each day—as you experience my hostility.

Jdg_3:1 Here's a list of nations that the LORD caused to remain in order to test Israel (that is, everyone who had not gained any battle experience in Canaan)

Jdg_3:2 only so that successive Israeli generations, who had not known war previously, might come to know it by experience.

Job_4:8 It's been my experience that those who plow the soil of iniquity and those who sow the seed of trouble will reap their harvest!

Job_32:7 I thought, experience should speak; abundance of years teaches wisdom.

Psa_10:6 They say to themselves, "We will not be moved throughout all time, and we will not experience adversity."

Psa_16:10 For you will not leave my soul in Sheol, you will not allow your holy one to experience corruption.

Psa_25:13 He will experience good things; his descendants will inherit the earth.

Psa_37:19 They will not experience shame in times of trouble; in times of famine they will have plenty.

Psa_56:9 My enemies will retreat when I call on you. This has been my experience, because God is with me.

Psa_71:20 God, who can compare to you, who caused me to experience many distresses and evil? You will return to revive me and lift me up from the depths of the earth.

Psa_73:5 They do not experience problems common to ordinary people; they aren't afflicted as others are.

Ecc_8:5 Whoever obeys his commands will not experience harm, and the wise in heart will discern both the appropriate time and response.

Ecc_8:16 When I dedicated myself to experience wisdom and to observe what is undertaken on earth—even going without sleep day and night—

Ecc_9:2 Everyone shares the same experience: a single event affects the righteous, the wicked, the good, the clean, the unclean, whoever sacrifices, and whoever does not sacrifice. As it is with the good person, so also it is with the sinner; as it is with someone who takes an oath, so also it is with someone who fears taking an oath.

Isa_29:19 The humble will again experience joy in the LORD, and the poorest people will rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

Jer_10:18 For this is what the LORD says: "I'm going to throw out the inhabitants of the land at this time, and I'll bring distress on them so they'll experience it."

Jer_14:13 Then I said, "Ah, Lord GOD, look! The prophets are saying to them, 'You won't see the sword and you won't experience famine. Rather, I'll give you lasting peace in this place.'"

--and on and on I can go--

 

[marks]

--not really "experiencing" what I'm typing/quoting to you marks, but that is my cross to bear.

Num_14:31 However, I'll bring your little ones—the ones whom you claimed would become war victims—into the land so that they'll know by experience the land that you've rejected.

Num_14:34 Just as you explored the land for 40 days, you'll bear the consequences of your iniquities for 40 years—one year for each day—as you experience my hostility.

Jdg_3:1 Here's a list of nations that the LORD caused to remain in order to test Israel (that is, everyone who had not gained any battle experience in Canaan)

Jdg_3:2 only so that successive Israeli generations, who had not known war previously, might come to know it by experience.

Job_4:8 It's been my experience that those who plow the soil of iniquity and those who sow the seed of trouble will reap their harvest!

Job_32:7 I thought, experience should speak; abundance of years teaches wisdom.

Psa_10:6 They say to themselves, "We will not be moved throughout all time, and we will not experience adversity."

Psa_16:10 For you will not leave my soul in Sheol, you will not allow your holy one to experience corruption.

Psa_25:13 He will experience good things; his descendants will inherit the earth.

Psa_37:19 They will not experience shame in times of trouble; in times of famine they will have plenty.

Psa_56:9 My enemies will retreat when I call on you. This has been my experience, because God is with me.

Psa_71:20 God, who can compare to you, who caused me to experience many distresses and evil? You will return to revive me and lift me up from the depths of the earth.

Psa_73:5 They do not experience problems common to ordinary people; they aren't afflicted as others are.

Ecc_8:5 Whoever obeys his commands will not experience harm, and the wise in heart will discern both the appropriate time and response.

Ecc_8:16 When I dedicated myself to experience wisdom and to observe what is undertaken on earth—even going without sleep day and night—

Ecc_9:2 Everyone shares the same experience: a single event affects the righteous, the wicked, the good, the clean, the unclean, whoever sacrifices, and whoever does not sacrifice. As it is with the good person, so also it is with the sinner; as it is with someone who takes an oath, so also it is with someone who fears taking an oath.

Isa_29:19 The humble will again experience joy in the LORD, and the poorest people will rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

Jer_10:18 For this is what the LORD says: "I'm going to throw out the inhabitants of the land at this time, and I'll bring distress on them so they'll experience it."

Jer_14:13 Then I said, "Ah, Lord GOD, look! The prophets are saying to them, 'You won't see the sword and you won't experience famine. Rather, I'll give you lasting peace in this place.'"

--and on and on I can go--

I'm hearing you. Even this, God is working for your good. Hang in there!

Much love!

 

[Johann]

I'm hearing you. Even this, God is working for your good. Hang in there!

Frustrated, but still believing every word as it stands written, Perfect Tense.
Shalom
J.

 

[setst777]

Many have been taught that sanctification is a process. But this is a smokescreen. No one gets holier with time. Maybe just holier than thou.

The Catholics also have a smokescreen. They call it "purgatory". But it's the same scheme....only with a different approach

What is the scheme? It is a reference to a denial that we can walk with God in holiness in THIS life...by grace through faith. That is our salvation. To walk with God as Jesus walked. No one does that gradually...it's not by works. It is a gift given to all who surrender themselves fully to God.

There are two paths we can follow...according to the ways of God. These are the ancient paths to walk in.

The way of righteousness. This way is the way of humility, honesty, brokenness and the fear of the Lord. This is the low road

The way of holiness in Christ: This is the narrow way that very few will find. This is the way of resurrection life...to walk as Jesus walked. This is the high road

Now, most believers walk in neither the low road nor the high road...(neither hot nor cold) instead they try to raise themselves up through a religious process...exemplified by Babylon.

The way up is actually down. Only God translates people into the higher walk. No one attains it over time.

We are to receive with MEEKNESS the implanted word. But that's not what happens, in most cases. In most cases a person who begins well gets seduced into placing themselves in a much higher place than they ought to. Let no one esteem himself higher than he should.

All religious efforts end the same way.

True, that to be in The Faith is to sanctify ourselves to God by following Lord Jesus into a life of righteousness and love, which is to live and walk by the Spirit of God who indwells the believer (John 7:37-39). Faith is a sanctified life onto God. We grow in faith, but faith is always a sanctified life onto God.

1 John 2:4-6 (WEB) 4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

John 10:27-28 (WEB) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they [the sheep who listen to and follow him] shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Hebrews 5:9 (WEB) Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation

Matthew 28:18-20 (WEB) 18 Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Galatians 5:24-25 (WEB) 24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.

When we sanctify (separate) ourselves onto the Lord from serving sin to following Lord Jesus, God sanctifies us onto himself and justifies us - accounts to us rightousness.

By sanctifying ourselves to God does not mean we will never sin again in thought, word, or deed, but that we no longer live for and serve the Old Man of Sin; rather, we live for and serve our rightful Master, Lord Jesus.

If you say, as a Christian, that you never sin in thought, word, or deed then God's Word to you is that you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you.

1 John 1:6-9 (WEB)
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. [all present tense]
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [present tense]
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness [present tense].

John is teaching the Christians, whom he is writing to in the present tense, what it means to be sanctified before God. God accounts righteousness to those who live by faith evidenced by following His Son.

If a believer says that he never sins, that he always loves and serves God with all his heart, mind, and soul, and body, then he does not need Christ Jesus as his High Priest to make intercession for him, because he never commits any sins in thought, word, or deed. He does not need God to account righteousness to him, because he believes that he is perfectly righteous as a believer. He does not need to say that part of the Lord's Prayer where he asks God to forgive him as he forgives others, because he is already righteous and holy in himself.

But if that were true, then why do we need a High Priest to intercede for us?

Hebrews 2:17-18 (WEB) 17 Therefore he was obligated in all things to be made like his brothers, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself has suffered being tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.

Hebrews 4:14-16 (WEB) 14 Having then a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let’s hold tightly to our confession. 15 For we don’t have a high priest who can’t be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace for help in time of need.

Hebrews 7:25 (WEB) 25 Therefore he is also able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, seeing that he lives forever to make intercession for them. 26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

When sin and death has finally been conquered, and we are raised incorruptible, then we will be completely holy and perfect, without sin. The New Covenant has its fulfillment in the glorified state when we dwell in the presence of God forever. The fulfillment is in the Eternal State. At the present time, we grow in love for God, as we live out our faith. And, according to how we live out our faith now, we will be rewarded in the eternal state. Some Christians will shine like the stars in heaven, when others will shine like the firmanent. God accounts righteousness to us who live by faith, not that we are completely righteous now.

Daniel 12:3 (WEB) Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

 

[ChristisGod]

Many have been taught that sanctification is a process. But this is a smokescreen. No one gets holier with time. Maybe just holier than thou.

The Catholics also have a smokescreen. They call it "purgatory". But it's the same scheme....only with a different approach

What is the scheme? It is a reference to a denial that we can walk with God in holiness in THIS life...by grace through faith. That is our salvation. To walk with God as Jesus walked. No one does that gradually...it's not by works. It is a gift given to all who surrender themselves fully to God.

There are two paths we can follow...according to the ways of God. These are the ancient paths to walk in.

The way of righteousness. This way is the way of humility, honesty, brokenness and the fear of the Lord. This is the low road

The way of holiness in Christ: This is the narrow way that very few will find. This is the way of resurrection life...to walk as Jesus walked. This is the high road

Now, most believers walk in neither the low road nor the high road...(neither hot nor cold) instead they try to raise themselves up through a religious process...exemplified by Babylon.

The way up is actually down. Only God translates people into the higher walk. No one attains it over time.

We are to receive with MEEKNESS the implanted word. But that's not what happens, in most cases. In most cases a person who begins well gets seduced into placing themselves in a much higher place than they ought to. Let no one esteem himself higher than he should.

All religious efforts end the same way.

Sanctification just like Salvation has a past, present and future aspect to it.

Strong's Concordance

hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify

Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 37 hagiázō (from 40 /hágios, "holy") – to regard as special (sacred), i.e. holy ("set apart"), sanctify. See 40 (hagios).

[37 (hagiázō) means "to make holy, consecrate, sanctify; to dedicate, separate" (Abbott-Smith).]

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 1:30
But it is due to Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written: “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

1 Corinthians 1:2
To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

Acts 26:15-18
“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Sanctification occurs in Scripture in the past (1 Cor. 1:2; 6:19; Acts 20:32), present (Rom. 6:22; 2 Cor. 7:1), and future (Eph. 5:25-27; 1 Thess. 3:12,13). We have been sanctified, we are being sanctified and will be sanctified. The sanctifying process begins at new birth and ends in heaven.

James 3:1
Not many of you should be teachers my brothers, knowing that we will receive greater judgment.

hope this helps !!!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

James 3:1
Not many of you should be teachers my brothers, knowing that we will receive greater judgment.

Wisdom!

 

[Johann]

Sanctification is the process of becoming more like Christ in our conduct and character. The objective of this pursuit of moral integrity is to be holy as God is holy (1 Pet. 1:15, 16).

There is a great deal of debate over how sanctification occurs, however. To determine the Biblical truth, we need to answer three questions. First, who is responsible for sanctification? Is God responsible? Am I responsible? Or is sanctification a cooperative effort between God and the believer? Second, when does sanctification begin? Does it begin at salvation? Or is there a later decision that I must make to begin the sanctifying process? The third question concerns the extent of sanctification. Is sanctification an ongoing process without an earthly final conclusion or is there a plateau of obedience or perfection that I reach in this lifetime?

Before we look for these answers, we need to distinguish three ways the concept of sanctification occurs in Scripture. Positional sanctification refers to the position of the believer before God through Christ’s death (Heb. 10:10, 14). This was accomplished at Christ’s death (Heb. 13:12) and is applied to the believer at salvation. Paul told the Corinthians that they “have been sanctified” (1 Cor. 1:2) and coordinates sanctification with washing (regeneration) and justification “as though all three elements had taken place at the same time”1 (1 Cor. 6:11). Thus believers can be called “saints” or “holy ones” (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 1:1; Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2).

Final sanctification (or glorification) is the believer’s hope (Eph. 1:4). “The eternal purpose not only pardons, but also sanctifies, absolves in order to renew, and purifies in order to bestow perfection. It is the uniform teaching of Paul that holiness is the end of our election, our calling, our pardon and acceptance.”2 Our final sanctification was provided for by Christ’s redemptive work (Eph. 1:7), but it will be finally completed when the believer meets Christ at His return (1 Thess. 3:13; 5:23).

There is little disagreement over these two forms of sanctification. The debates routinely arise concerning the third kind of sanctification. Progressive sanctification is the process by which a believer becomes more like Christ during his earthly sojourn, and it is this sanctification which this article shall address. Many discussions of sanctification are, appropriately, focused on this sanctification. A good starting point is the New Hampshire Baptist Confession of 1833, which states,

We believe that Sanctification is the process by which, according to the will of God, we are made partakers of his holiness; that it is a progressive work; that it is begun in regeneration; and that it is carried on in the hearts of believers by the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, the Sealer and Comforter, in the continual use of the appointed means—especially the Word of God, self-examination, self-denial, watchfulness, and prayer (Article X).

Who is responsible for sanctification? God is responsible for the spiritual work in our lives (1 Thess. 3:13; 4:7, 8). Jesus is our “wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption” (1 Cor. 1:30). We are sanctified in the name of Jesus Christ and by the Spirit (1 Cor. 6:11). The Holy Spirit is the one who makes us “spiritually minded” (Rom. 8:1–11) and sanctifies us (Rom. 15:16). Jude 1:1 declares that we are “sanctified by God the Father.” While sanctification is accomplished by God, believers have a responsibility to advance their own sanctification. In Eph 4:22–24 Paul teaches that sanctification negatively involves the decision to put off the “old self” and positively, through the continual process of the mind’s renewal, to put on the “new self.” This idea of mind renewal is also found in Romans 12:1, 2 (see Andy Hudson’s article in this issue), where sanctification is identified with a conscious decision. In Ephesians 4:25ff Paul lists a string of points of conduct, sprinkled with motivators—unity (4:25), charity (4:28), love (5:2), looking to Heaven (5:5), Spirit (5:9, 18). In chapter 6 Paul identifies the Christian’s armor, which represents several elements of the Christian life. In 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 we see that Scripture was given that we might be perfect. James 1:3, 4 indicates that trials are part of our sanctification. First John 2:5 says perfection comes through keeping God’s Word. God uses the fellowship of God’s people in the local church (Heb. 3:12, 13) so that believers may be partakers of God’s holiness. We could go on, but the idea is clear. “Perhaps the real ‘secret’ of holiness consists precisely in learning to keep that balance: relying thoroughly on God as the true agent in sanctification, while faithfully discharging one’s personal responsibility.”3

When does sanctification begin? While there are passages that seem to indicate a post-conversion start to sanctification, it is more evident that sanctification, as a work of the Spirit, begins at salvation. A newly born believer desires the milk of God’s Word to grow just as a newly born infant desires physical milk (1 Pet. 2:2). Paul indicated to the Philippians that God will not stop his work of sanctification in their lives (Phil. 1:6). In Romans 8 Paul declared that through the Holy Spirit the believer is free from the power of the law, free from the power of sin, and free from the power of the flesh. This freedom begins with our unification with Christ and indwelling by the Spirit. The work of the Spirit to help us live as sons of God (v. 14) begins once we are saved. The key is our relationship to Christ. Salvation and walking in the Spirit are connected. There is no need for a second working of God’s grace now that we have a relationship with Christ.

This writer rejects the idea of a single crisis experience sometime after salvation that begins the sanctification process. However, he does acknowledge that there are often crises in believers’ lives that play a significant role in a person’s sanctification. This is frequently the case with those who accept Christ while very young. As they grow up, they enter into different areas of temptation. When they discover the “other gender,” they enter into the temptations of lust. When they get a job, they may have to deal with greed. As they finish their teen years, they have to begin to make life choices concerning college, career, and life partners, some of the most important decisions in their lives, decisions that are life-changing. Each of these is a mini-crisis, that can move their sanctification forward—or backwards, depending on how they respond.

The final question concerns the extent of salvation in this life. Everyone can agree that glorification results in perfection, but not everyone agrees on whether or not one can reach “perfection” in this life. One problem is the definition of the term. The Biblical concept of “perfect” does not necessarily refer to sinlessness. Hebrews refers to the incarnate Christ as having been made “perfect through sufferings” (Heb. 2:10).4 There was never a need for Christ to be “made sinless.” Nevertheless, Christ was “made perfect” when He finished the task for which He was sent. While there are uses of “perfect” that refer to the sinlessness of our glorification, perfection also refers to maturity, growth in grace that leaves room for even more growth.

Saints at salvation, ongoing change during this life, and finally the glorification of these bodies of sin into our glorified bodies, where sinlessness is the norm: that is this author’s view of Biblical sanctification.

Larry Oats is the Professor of College of Bible and Church Ministries at Maranatha Baptist Seminary

The Process of Sanctification

Sanctification is the process of becoming more like Christ in our conduct and character. The objective of this pursuit of moral integrity is to be holy as God is holy (1 Pet. 1:15, 16). There is

www.proclaimanddefend.org

 

[marks]

Frustrated, but still believing every word as it stands written, Perfect Tense.
Shalom
J.

Romans 5:3-5 KJV
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

It's not fun, but it's worthwhile.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

You dont understand what fruit is at all.. Fruit is produced by being attached to the vine. And ONLY believers can produce it.
If you do not produce fruit. You have done no work. And according to James your faith is dead.

Thats what the first three represent.

I am amazed you talk about the power of God. Yet over and over, The power of God has no meaning to you. People are not changed, they produce n fruit. Yet they were washed, sanctified and justified?


Who is offended by you? I have not seen anyone. Now I see many (especially your email friend) get offended when you are allegedly persecuted and react in the flesh. I have even seen yourself do that..

No, their righteousness would be what God calls bloody rags, Because their righteous was human righteousness, Self motivated from the flesh. And not produced by God in the spirit.


The only people who walk in the kingdom are people wh have been born into the kingdom. Sadly many think they are in the kingdom. Yet have never met Christ. Even though they claim to know him. No different than the jew who claimed they knew God, but when Gods son came and he told them the truth they rejected him and had him killed

You have faith? Well yes, In yourself. What about your faiht in God. Can God change his own children? Or is God limited. And saves people who never do anythign for him>

Who walks without sin? The only one who did this is christ my friend. If we (john included himself) say we are without sin (present tense) we are decieved. Even paul spoke of the war between the flesh and the spirit. Are you saying people walk this earth today and have achieved what neither of these two great apostles did?

I met him through Gods word

He believed god and God ACCOUNTED to him righteousness. Not hs own righteous. Abraham was not righteous. He laughed at God Through fear he said his wife was his sister. He commited adultry with his servant and his children have suffered the war between those two brothers ever since.


Nah, I just know the truth, anyone who disagrees with you is attacking you. You And your disciples say this all the time

You still have not answered my questions or response.

I am just stating a fact. When you refuse to answer and try to blame shift and accuse someone else. What else do you call it?

The prophet and his faithful follower do nothing but encourage a lie . The lie
That is their mission . The gospel means nothing to them . SURE they might agree to it
at times , but always preach contrary to it . I have seen these kinds and they KNOW how to allure and to deceive .
As for me , I AM STICKING TO THE ONLY GOSPEL that saves , the only gospel that bears fruit pleasing to GOD .
THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST . Nothing else saves and all who deny HIM , HE WILL DENY .

 

[ChristisGod]

You will know them by their fruits. One way to tell is someone speaks from the Spirit of God, self or the evil one is easily discerned. Jesus told us how and its an easy test to pass or fail.

Jesus said the OT was about Himself

Luke 24:25-27
25 And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

John 5:39-40
39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Luke 24:44-45
44Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,


Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM, testify of Him, Glorify Him- the Ministry of the Spirit is to honor and point us to Jesus. The Author and Finisher of our Faith !

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.


John 16:7-9
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me

John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Johann]

Romans 5:3-5 KJV
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

It's not fun, but it's worthwhile.

Much love!

experience. Greek. dokime. Here; 2Co_2:9; 2Co_8:2; 2Co_9:13; 2Co_13:3. Php_1:2, Php_1:22.
Experience (δοκιμήν)
Wrong. The word means either the process of trial, proving, as 2Co_8:2, or the result of trial, approvedness, Php_2:22. Here it can only be the latter: tried integrity, a state of mind which has stood the test. The process has already been expressed by tribulation. Rev. renders probation, which might be defended on the ground of English classical usage. Thus Shakespeare:
“And of the truth herein
This present object made probation.
“Hamlet,” i., 1
Jeremy Taylor: “When by miracle God dispensed great gifts to the laity, He gave probation that He intended that all should prophecy and preach.”
But probation has come to be understood, almost universally, of the process of trial. The more accurate rendering is proof or approval.
Vincent


δοκιμή, δοκιμῆς, ἡ (dokimos];
1. in an active sense, a proving, trial: θλίψεως, through affliction, 2Co_8:2.
2. approvedness, tried character: Rom_5:4; 2Co_2:9; Php_2:22; τῆς διακονίας, exhibited in the contribution, 2Co_9:13.
3. "a proof (objectively], a specimen of (Dioscorides (?) 4, 186 (183); occasionally in ecclesiastical writings.)
Thayer.


dokimē
7x: trial, proof by trial, 2Co_8:2; the state or disposition of that which has been tried and approved, approved character or temper, Rom_5:4; 2Co_2:9; Php_2:22; proof, document, evidence, 2Co_8:2; 2Co_13:3.


--guess I'm going through dokimazo--and not peiradzo.

 

[amigo de christo]

Romans 5:3-5 KJV
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

It's not fun, but it's worthwhile.

Much love!

While we experience it , its painful . but rest assured more than one apostel was BEATEN WITH A CAT OF NINE TAILS
for JESUS . and though it must have hurt like all get out , AFTERWARDS they were REJOICING , HAPPY as could be
to have been counted worthy to suffer shame for HIS NAME .
JESUS was WITH THEM . and JESUS DONT CHANGE . HE WILL BE WITH US MARK . HE WILL .
The beatings might hurt , BUT SO DID HIS . WE WILL REJOICE in HIM no matter what comes against us .
FOR greater IS HE that is in us than he that is in the world . NO chastening feels pleasant
but IT DOES YEILD the peaceable fruit unto those who go through it .
What we are experiencing now is NOTHING compared to what is coming .
BUT It seems the LORD is getting the lambs ready . HE ALREADY KNOWS what is coming .
HE is preparing us my friend . TO know and understand that no matter what does come against us
HE IS WITH US and ITS FOR OUR GOOD . I Am fully convinced that GOD KNOWS what is best for me .
HE KNOWS what i need , FAR MORE THAN I DO . SO LET HIS WILL BE DONE IS ALL I CAN SAY .
FOR GOD knows what is best for those who love him . GOD GIVETH and GOD also taketh away .
THERE is a time and a season for all things . WE are entering into a time of great persectutions .
BUT IT DONT MEAN GOD WONT BE WITH US MARK . HE WILL . AND OUR FAITH WILL BLOSSOM .
DO not fear what is nor that which is to come upon the lambs . JUST HAVE PEACE IN CHRIST .
LOOK to the PRIZE , TO THE LORD , to the HOME we have at the end of our faith .
AND ITS NOT LIKE ANYONE OF US EARNED OR DESERVED IT . JESUS EARNED IT FOR US and HE BUILT our HOME .
LOOK to the prize that cometh at the end of our faith . FOR if any looks to hope in this world , THEY AINT GONNA MAKE IT .
ITS GONNA GET ROUGH for the lambs . BUT believe me , we wont be the first ones to experience
persecutions . MANY who went before us have . AND GOD , CHRIST WAS WITH THEM and now they are home .
ITS US , this last generation that must now endure . Now lift those hands up . MY peace cometh of GOD
no matter what comes against me . FOR GOD IS WITH ME and my end is GOOD . No fear of man
no fear of death . WHY fear death . JESUS has conquered it . IF a lamb dies , IT GOES HOME TO THE KING .
and if we suffer HE IS WITH US . ALL THINGS . work to the good of those who LOVE GOD . SO march on my friend .
Just march on in the LORD . WE have all hope . FOR OUR Hope comes not from men nor the world
BUT FROM GOD and IS IN HIS CHRIST . GLORY HALLELUJAH . GLORY TO THE KING . NO fear . ONLY PEACE IN HIM .

 

[Johann]

While we experience it , its painful . but rest assured more than one apostel was BEATEN WITH A CAT OF NINE TAILS
for JESUS . and though it must have hurt like all get out , AFTERWARDS they were REJOICING , HAPPY as could be
to have been counted worthy to suffer shame for HIS NAME .
JESUS was WITH THEM . and JESUS DONT CHANGE . HE WILL BE WITH US MARK . HE WILL .
The beatings might hurt , BUT SO DID HIS . WE WILL REJOICE in HIM no matter what comes against us .
FOR greater IS HE that is in us than he that is in the world . NO chastening feels pleasant
but IT DOES YEILD the peaceable fruit unto those who go through it .
What we are experiencing now is NOTHING compared to what is coming .
BUT It seems the LORD is getting the lambs ready . HE ALREADY KNOWS what is coming .
HE is preparing us my friend . TO know and understand that no matter what does come against us
HE IS WITH US and ITS FOR OUR GOOD . I Am fully convinced that GOD KNOWS what is best for me .
HE KNOWS what i need , FAR MORE THAN I DO . SO LET HIS WILL BE DONE IS ALL I CAN SAY .
FOR GOD knows what is best for those who love him . GOD GIVETH and GOD also taketh away .
THERE is a time and a season for all things . WE are entering into a time of great persectutions .
BUT IT DONT MEAN GOD WONT BE WITH US MARK . HE WILL . AND OUR FAITH WILL BLOSSOM .
DO not fear what is nor that which is to come upon the lambs . JUST HAVE PEACE IN CHRIST .
LOOK to the PRIZE , TO THE LORD , to the HOME we have at the end of our faith .
AND ITS NOT LIKE ANYONE OF US EARNED OR DESERVED IT . JESUS EARNED IT FOR US and HE BUILT our HOME .
LOOK to the prize that cometh at the end of our faith . FOR if any looks to hope in this world , THEY AINT GONNA MAKE IT .
ITS GONNA GET ROUGH for the lambs . BUT believe me , we wont be the first ones to experience
persecutions . MANY who went before us have . AND GOD , CHRIST WAS WITH THEM and now they are home .
ITS US , this last generation that must now endure . Now lift those hands up . MY peace cometh of GOD
no matter what comes against me . FOR GOD IS WITH ME and my end is GOOD . No fear of man
no fear of death . WHY fear death . JESUS has conquered it . IF a lamb dies , IT GOES HOME TO THE KING .
and if we suffer HE IS WITH US . ALL THINGS . work to the good of those who LOVE GOD . SO march on my friend .
Just march on in the LORD . WE have all hope . FOR OUR Hope comes not from men nor the world
BUT FROM GOD and IS IN HIS CHRIST . GLORY HALLELUJAH . GLORY TO THE KING . NO fear . ONLY PEACE IN HIM .

2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
2Co 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
2Co 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
2Co 11:26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
2Co 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
2Co 11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
2Co 11:32 In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:
2Co 11:33 And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.


2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Strong words--
J.

 

[amigo de christo]

2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
2Co 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
2Co 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
2Co 11:26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
2Co 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
2Co 11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
2Co 11:32 In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:
2Co 11:33 And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.


2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Strong words--
J.

exactly my friend . Paul went through a living hell of persecutions . YET he knew . HE KNEW .
ANd so will we my friend . WE have not yet experienced what they did .
And the mind of men might fear that . BUT i say DONT . GOD is with us .
WHEN we are weak then WE ARE STRONG . GOD knows what is best for every single lamb .
ON that i am fully persauded . I aint praying to be PERSECUTED . BUT I DO PRAY for STRENGTH THROUGH IT .
WE must not fear what is nor what is to come against us .
THESE MEN EXPERIENCED IT , and they sure didnt seem DEPRESSED TO ME .
PAUL seemed more full of joy than most any christain i know . THE JOY OF THE LORD .
AND HE was persecuted big time . Sure its gonna hurt . BUT whatever GOD allows against us
I PROMISE WILL WORK FOR OUR GOOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

a lot of pauls letters were not written from a penthouse where he was surrouned with jets and big money .
THEY was writ from prison . And the man had far more joy than these false prosperity preachers will ever know .
CAUSE HIS HOPE was IN CHRIST , IN HIS DAY , IN THE REWARD HE WOULD RECIEVE IN HIS NEW HOME .
But therein lies the problem with todays christendom , their hopes are all in the wrong place , IN THIS WORLD , IN THIS LIFE
YA BEST LIFE NOW JOEL OSTEINS . MY BEST LIFE is BY FAR YET TO COME . and even knowing that
HAS GIVEN ME THE BEST LIFE I COULD EVER HAVE IN THIS WORLD NO MATTER WHAT HAS OR WHAT WILL COME AGAINST ME .
GO and let us learn that .

 

[Johann]

exactly my friend . Paul went through a living hell of persecutions . YET he knew . HE KNEW .
ANd so will we my friend . WE have not yet experienced what they did .
And the mind of men might fear that . BUT i say DONT . GOD is with us .
WHEN we are weak then WE ARE STRONG . GOD knows what is best for every single lamb .
ON that i am fully persauded . I aint praying to be PERSECUTED . BUT I DO PRAY for STRENGTH THROUGH IT .
WE must not fear what is nor what is to come against us .
THESE MEN EXPERIENCED IT , and they sure didnt seem DEPRESSED TO ME .
PAUL seemed more full of joy than most any christain i know . THE JOY OF THE LORD .
AND HE was persecuted big time . Sure its gonna hurt . BUT whatever GOD allows against us
I PROMISE WILL WORK FOR OUR GOOD .

He never promised that the cross would not get heavy,
and the hill would not be hard to climb.
He never offered victories without fighting, but
He said help would always come in time.
Just remember when you're standing in the valley of decision
and the adversary says give in, Just hold on.
Our Lord will show up,
and He will take you through the fire again.
So many times I question the certain circumstances,
things I could not understand.
Many times in trials my weakness blurs my vision,
that's when my frustration seems gets so out of hand.
It's then I am reminded, I've never been forsaken.
I've never had to stand one test alone.
That's when I look at all the victories, the Spirit rising up in me.
And It's through the fire my weakness is made strong.
He never promised that the cross would not get heavy,
and the hill would not be hard to climb.
He never offered victories without fighting, but
He said help would always come in time.
Just remember when you're standing in the valley of decision,
and the adversary says give in, Just hold on.
Our Lord will show up,
and He will take you through the fire again.
I know within myself that I would surely perish.
If I trust the hand of God, He'll shield the flame again, again!
He never promised that the cross would not get heavy,
and the hill would not be hard to climb.
He never offered victories without fighting,
He said help would always come in time.
Just remember when you're standing in the valley of decision,
and the adversary says give in, Just hold on.
Our Lord will show up,
and He will take you through the fire again.

Just hold on,
Our Lord will show up,
He will take you through the fire again.
Again.

Jason Crabb - Through the Fire Lyrics

 

[marks]

xperience (δοκιμήν)
Wrong. The word means either the process of trial, proving, as 2Co_8:2, or the result of trial, approvedness, Php_2:22. Here it can only be the latter: tried integrity, a state of mind which has stood the test. The process has already been expressed by tribulation. Rev. renders probation, which might be defended on the ground of English classical usage. Thus Shakespeare:
“And of the truth herein
This present object made probation.
“Hamlet,” i., 1
Jeremy Taylor: “When by miracle God dispensed great gifts to the laity, He gave probation that He intended that all should prophecy and preach.”
But probation has come to be understood, almost universally, of the process of trial. The more accurate rendering is proof or approval.
Vincent

I understand this particular part to be speaking something like,

Tribulation/affliction works endurance, in the way that if we don't patiently endure, we eventually learn that doesn't work for us. So we learn to wait on God to work.

Endurance works experience, that is, as we accumulate in our lives the experiences of God coming through for us, this gives us a "body of evidence" (experience) in our lives of His faithfulness.

Having that body of evidence behind us, we have hope for the future, knowing that God will remain faithful as He's shown Himself faithful in the past. We have a greater strength of faith, and believing His promises, that is our expectation.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

I understand this particular part to be speaking something like,

Tribulation/affliction works endurance, in the way that if we don't patiently endure, we eventually learn that doesn't work for us. So we learn to wait on God to work.

Endurance works experience, that is, as we accumulate in our lives the experiences of God coming through for us, this gives us a "body of evidence" (experience) in our lives of His faithfulness.

Having that body of evidence behind us, we have hope for the future, knowing that God will remain faithful as He's shown Himself faithful in the past. We have a greater strength of faith, and believing His promises, that is our expectation.

Much love!

Amen our God is Immutable and He never changes and in Him there is no shadow of turning.

 

[marks]

--guess I'm going through dokimazo--and not peiradzo.

Doesn't peiradzo produce dokimazo? In the child of God, that is?

1 Peter 1:6-7 KJV
6) Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

experience. Greek. dokime. Here; 2Co_2:9; 2Co_8:2; 2Co_9:13; 2Co_13:3. Php_1:2, Php_1:22.
Experience (δοκιμήν)
Wrong. The word means either the process of trial, proving, as 2Co_8:2, or the result of trial, approvedness, Php_2:22. Here it can only be the latter: tried integrity, a state of mind which has stood the test. The process has already been expressed by tribulation. Rev. renders probation, which might be defended on the ground of English classical usage. Thus Shakespeare:
“And of the truth herein
This present object made probation.
“Hamlet,” i., 1
Jeremy Taylor: “When by miracle God dispensed great gifts to the laity, He gave probation that He intended that all should prophecy and preach.”
But probation has come to be understood, almost universally, of the process of trial. The more accurate rendering is proof or approval.
Vincent


δοκιμή, δοκιμῆς, ἡ (dokimos];
1. in an active sense, a proving, trial: θλίψεως, through affliction, 2Co_8:2.
2. approvedness, tried character: Rom_5:4; 2Co_2:9; Php_2:22; τῆς διακονίας, exhibited in the contribution, 2Co_9:13.
3. "a proof (objectively], a specimen of (Dioscorides (?) 4, 186 (183); occasionally in ecclesiastical writings.)
Thayer.


dokimē
7x: trial, proof by trial, 2Co_8:2; the state or disposition of that which has been tried and approved, approved character or temper, Rom_5:4; 2Co_2:9; Php_2:22; proof, document, evidence, 2Co_8:2; 2Co_13:3.


--guess I'm going through dokimazo--and not peiradzo.

When we read this it is real easy to see what paul meant . HE meant real persecutions from men against us .
WE must endure it faithfully . the early church always warned the peoples not to allow those persecutions to move them .
Rather to endure it . Paul even says its the righteous judgment of GOD to the thessaolonians .
THIS is speaking of the trials we will face in this world . Yes indeed my friend . We are appointed unto tribulations .
Let us read second thess the first chapter too .