Sanctification is not a Process

[marks]

But grow (auxanete de). Present active imperative of auxanō, in contrast with such a fate pictured in 2Pe_3:17, “but keep on growing.”
In the grace and knowledge (en chariti kai gnōsei). Locative case with en. Grow in both. Keep it up. See note on 2Pe_1:1 for the idiomatic use of the single article (tou) here, “of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”
Robertson.

Did you notice the Aorist, Passive Subjunctive and here the Present, Active, Imperative marks?

I hadn't been thinking about that, thank you for bringing this out! That makes another connection that I hope to remember!

On vs 15, But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

I've thought this was an active rather than passive, that we do this. Though there must be the working of God upon us for that to happen I would think!

But I was just noticing that vs 16, making growth of the body, is passive, which reminds me of,

1 Peter 2:5 KJV
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

This is a passive verb also.

We are working our our salvation with fear and trembling, and God is building us together into a spiritual temple.

Good morning/evening, brother!

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Women think about people. Men think about things.

Men obeying the holy scriptures think on these things:

“…whatsoever things are true,
whatsoever things are honest,
whatsoever things are just,
whatsoever things are pure,
whatsoever things are lovely,
whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Philippians 4:8)

 

[marks]

My apology for the edit--but I know you would understand why I believe in "progressive sanctification" and sanctification in the Aoristic, and our forensic justification.

No worries! Yes, I think you see the same things that I do.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

I hadn't been thinking about that, thank you for bringing this out! That makes another connection that I hope to remember!

On vs 15, But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

I've thought this was an active rather than passive, that we do this. Though there must be the working of God upon us for that to happen I would think!

But I was just noticing that vs 16, making growth of the body, is passive, which reminds me of,

1 Peter 2:5 KJV
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

This is a passive verb also.

We are working our our salvation with fear and trembling, and God is building us together into a spiritual temple.

Good morning/evening, brother!

Much love!

5.24 PM, hello marks--

Our Lord of the Imperatives--and our duty, Middle, Passive Voice--not always, necessarily in that order, but most of the time our duties to our covenantal heavenly Father dia the Messiah and the blessed sealing of the Holy Spirit.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hmm, I wonder how far you are taking this idea that we "need" prophets to interpret scripture for us and without prophets the church loses its way?

I can say this though, Israel kept silencing and killing her prophets and in those days, when there wasn’t a prophet (other than dead ones), every man began to do what was right in his own sight. If that isn’t speaking of the plethora of denominations then I don’t know what does. And if one can’t see it, I can’t show them.

Israel always slid towards entropy after awhile, God sent a prophet to warn, to get back on track. One of those prophets (I think Ezra?) saw something from reading the word of God that no one had yet seen. That sight began rebuilding. It made Sanballat was it? and some other men very angry. They did everything they could to stop rebuilding of the wall.
I see that same thing in here.

 

[marks]

I see some low resolution stuff with an almost severe acuity. God has taken me a route of…intimate knowledge of human nature and motives and why people are acting a certain way. I’m nearsighted.
But put me into a group dynamic, or a larger setting, with a few more layers of obfuscation (like examining the machine of politics for instance) and I struggle to adjust and apply what I’ve learned. And make that setting among people who may have received the down payment and I do a really strange thing. I expect those people to be completely different from the smaller or more intimate settings among unbelievers He’s taught me about human nature in. I for some reason assume those people will not be afraid of truth as unbelievers are, will not become distressed if backed into a corner with truth. But they are the same.
But there is one difference in this particular place (here). For instance, among say…the unbelievers in my family, they avoid me (And I’m quite okay with that because the only way for me to not make them uncomfortable would be to play their silly pretend games). And they sometimes seem…afraid to make eye contact. I told them at some point, like…why they were having a problem with a certain person, I layed it all out so they could see it, they were amazed and asked how on earth I saw that and I said, well…God, the Holy Spirit. And the Bible. And then they…became scared because…if I could see and understand the workings and motives of ONE human nature then their own might be seen by me. And that has most often happened that they were (for example) at some point furious with someone and I attempted to help them out of their distress with exactly why and…it was too much truth then. So they sort of rush by me now without making eye contact too much. So our tacit and unspoken agreement is: don’t ask me anything or involve me in anything if you aren’t prepared for the truth.
So that’s a difference between that setting and here - they’ve stopped scapegoating me (because it doesn’t work any more) and they now avoid me (out of fear) and HERE, there are some so angry at truth that they do the opposite of avoid and instead try to silence me by screaming at me.
And, of course, it’s the same thing they do with Epi, out of fear of the truth, but even more viciously because…I don’t know why….because it’s on a macro scale?

Look back over your posts if you want to know why I'm not addressing you much. I'm neither angry with you nor afraid of you.

I'm always interested in a real conversation, but there's not been a lot of that with you.

My own thoughts, I offer this not to be negative, but to say what I see, you can come across as having positioned yourself "over" others, judging them, or ridiculing them, or projecting things on them, or changing their words around then accusing them.

Maybe you don't mean these things, but the behaviors are very divisive. I don't find it fruitful, and it's not what I'm here for. I'd love to see something better!

Much love!

I hope you can receive this in the spirit I intend for it.

 

[APAK]

Anytime mate. I have more...

@Christophany ..here's another uplifting experience in every day life..that occurred early last year

Again, in my community of around 2100, split into 15 major sub-communities..

I was speaking with a neighbor two doors down at the corner, near the street edge and intersection.

I was asking him about if he knew of a less non-invasion way for my wife to get one of her knees fixed up, instead of having knee replacement. He really had no good ideas. And as we kept our mouths flapping in the street, a person from the road behind us stopped and yelled out of his vehicle at the intersection, to say hello to the neighbor I was speaking with just now. I looked at this loud mouth and his smile and his words then drew me to ask him the same question, for some odd reason.

I suddenly burst out and greeted this black gentleman as he was sitting with a big grim on his face and I told him hello and that I lived up a few doors....and then asked him if he had knowledge of the same subject....he did!...and then I said maybe God has another plan for her, my wife...upon me saying that he said our Lord is a great God indeed or words close to that effect....and very soon the previous neighbor left us as we continued and congested the thin road near the intersection that was not busy at all....We spoke of the praises of God in our lives and we ended by him giving me a business card of a physician that was well sought after, even in the State of Florida...he actually worked for him and knew first hand of his work.

The Body of Christ is a mystery indeed, you don't know where are most of its member ( and they are not necessary in the brick and mortar of a building visited every Saturday or Sunday), where they live, as we are sometimes too busy in life and blind spiritually to notice them and their glowing spirit lurking in plain sight.

And then I have a few false encounters, with those I regard as fake members of the Body of Christ. They are afraid to uplift God and his Son in praises of glory and thanksgiving.....later then...

 

[marks]

5.24 PM, hello marks--

Our Lord of the Imperatives--and our duty, Middle, Passive Voice--not always, necessarily in that order, but most of the time our duties to our covenantal heavenly Father dia the Messiah and the blessed sealing of the Holy Spirit.
J.

I like the way you put that!

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I can say this though, Israel kept silencing and killing her prophets and in those days, when there wasn’t a prophet (other than dead ones), every man began to do what was right in his own sight. If that isn’t speaking of the plethora of denominations then I don’t know what does. And if one can’t see it, I can’t show them.

What a great post. Too much truth for most. Blessings to you!

 

[marks]

Speaking of spiritual women here is the Bible's teaching on how they can be spiritual.

1 Tim 2:11-15
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

1 Corinthians 14:34
women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.

1 Corinthians 14:35
If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church.

Titus 2:5
to be self-controlled, pure, managers of their households, kind, and subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be discredited.

1 Timothy 2:11
A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness.

1 Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet.

1 Peter 3:1
Wives, in the same way, submit yourselves to your husbands, so that even if they refuse to believe the word, they will be won over without words by the behavior of their wives

hope this helps !!!

What are you trying to say here? Your placement of this post looks off to me. Like you're saying SBG shouldn't be contributing or something, but that's not it, right?

Much love!

 

[Johann]

I've thought this was an active rather than passive, that we do this. Though there must be the working of God upon us for that to happen I would think!

It is in the Active Voice--

αυξησωμεν
G837
V-AAS-1P
αὐξάνω
to grow


2) "May grow up into him in all things" (auksesomen eis auton ta panta) "We may grow with relationship to him in all respects or all points," in knowledge, grace, works, and experience, Eph_2:10; 2Pe_3:18.

Here the Active is coupled with an Imperative--which means our Father is causing the growing--and yet the command--we need to keep on growing, as you know our relationship with Abba is a covenant, I am not advocating ergoi/works here brother...just our duties in this relationship with Jesus and yield/hearken to Christ's Imperatives. Says me, sounding so scholarly but I'm not--this is boot-camp and pride no longer, since I don't "feel" a need to be accepted on this Forum--but to stand accountable and in need of correction when in error.

. Simple Active
The subject performs or experiences the action. The verb may be transitive or
intransitive. This is the normal or routine use, by far the most common.
Mark 4:2 edj idv asken aujtou©ß ejn parabolaiçß pollav
he was teaching them many things in parables
John 1:7 ou|toß hl\ qen eijß marturivan he came for a testimony

➡2. Causative Active (Ergative Active) ExSyn 411–12
a. Definition. The subject is not directly involved in the action, but may be
said to be the ultimate source or cause of it. That cause may be volitional, but is
not necessarily so. This usage is fairly common.
For the simple verb, sometimes the gloss cause to can be used before the verb
and its object; in such cases it is usually best to convert the verb to a passive (e.g.,
he causes him to be baptized). However, this is not always appropriate.
b. Illustrations 4
Matt 5:45 to©n h{lion aujtouçanj atelv lei ejpi© ponhrou©ß kai© ajgaqou©ß kai©
brecv ei ejpi©dikaivouß kai© ajdivkouß
he causes his sun to rise on [both] evil and good [people], and
he causes it to rain on [both] the righteous and unrighteous
John 19:1 emj astigv wsen he scourged him
Pilate caused Jesus to be scourged, but did not perform the act
himself.

➡3. Stative Active ExSyn 412–13
a. Definition and key to identification. The subject exists in the state indicated by the verb. This kind of active includes both equative verbs (copulas) and
verbs that are translated with an adjective in the predicate (e.g., ploutevw—“I am
rich”). This usage is common, even routine.
Voice 181


The key to identification is simple: the stative active occurs either with the
equative verb or one that in translation uses am + a predicate adjective (“I am X”).
b. Illustrations
John 1:1 ∆En ajrch/çhn\ oJlovgoß In the beginning was the Word
1 Cor 13:4 hJ ajgavph makroqumei,ç crhsteuev tai hJ ajgavph
love is patient, love is kind

➡4. Reflexive Active ExSyn 413–14
a. Definition. The subject acts on himself or herself. In such cases naturally
the reflexive pronoun is employed as the direct object (e.g., eJautovn), while the corresponding reflexive middle omits the pronoun. This usage is relatively common.
b. Illustrations
Mark 15:30 swsç on seautovn save yourself
Rev 19:7 hJgunh©aujtouçhtJ oimv asen eJauthvn
his bride has prepared herself

This is how I have studied for years, but not because of pride--to come to know/yada my Lord and Savior in a deeper, more intimate experience.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What a great post. Too much truth for most. Blessings to you!

I added more to it.

 

[ChristisGod]

What are you trying to say here? Your placement of this post looks off to me. Like you're saying SBG shouldn't be contributing or something, but that's not it, right?

Much love!

No I was just stating there are roles in Marriage and the church that God has ordained and also there are roles/functions within the Trinity- the Son for example submits to the Father. So God has placed the same roles/functions in marriage and the church that are to reflect His own nature/character. Man has made submission a negative thing but in Gods way it reflects Him when its done in love.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think women have an easier grasp with the beginning of the truth. But a harder to time with how that plays out.

As in…do you see this?! Put the paper down and look at what your son is doing!! What are you going to do about it?!!

 

[marks]

Growing up means no longer needing to rely on spiritual “parents”, trusting in man, but having learned to rely on the Lord and be taught by Him….He is the Shepherd of our souls and His sheep know His voice. Doesn't necessarily mean He will never teach us any more through man, but when we are abiding in Him we recognize His voice, when what is being taught is of Him and when it is not. HE is not a man that He should lie......and David cried out that all men are liars.......I think that means we can expect no man is going to be right and speak truth all the time, so we must learn - by relying on the Spirit - to eat the meat and spit out the bones of what anyone says. It's like, as we grow from childhood into adulthood, learning to think for ourselves, we begin to realize that our parents are only human after all and subject to having faults and being wrong at times.

I see this reflected in Ephesians 4,

Ephesians 4:11-15 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

He gave us all of these to mature us. That maturity will involve us having unity in the faith and knowledge of the Son of God. We could spend a long time just unpacking that!

Ephesians 4:16 KJV
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

We are taught as we mature, and when we've matured in Christ we build each other up, in a body that is nourished by every member.

But like you said, we can always receive teaching. My choices for what to listen to are choral hymns, Bible reading, and Bible teaching.

Much love!

 

[marks]

more humanism and human philosophy. Paul talks about it in Colossians 2:8. You reject the God ordained roles of men and women God has placed in the 2 Divine institutions that are a reflection of Him- Marriage and the Church. There are even roles within the Tr-Unity of God that involve humility and submission. If you cannot understand Gods nature and character then you cannot understand mans and how God created man in His own image and likeness. All heresy and false teaching starts with a wrong belief about God.

I remember some years ago, I said once that I thought women had an easier time being more spiritual. Maria, she was both retired Choir Director and School Teacher, she shot bolt upright, "WHAT? Are you CRAZY???" The look on her face burned into my memory!

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Men obeying the holy scriptures think on these things:

“…whatsoever things are true,
whatsoever things are honest,
whatsoever things are just,
whatsoever things are pure,
whatsoever things are lovely,
whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Philippians 4:8)

Well said, with Scripture.

 

[marks]

2) "May grow up into him in all things" (auksesomen eis auton ta panta) "We may grow with relationship to him in all respects or all points," in knowledge, grace, works, and experience, Eph_2:10; 2Pe_3:18.

Here the Active is coupled with an Imperative--which means our Father is causing the growing--and yet the command--we need to keep on growing, as you know our relationship with Abba is a covenant, I am not advocating ergoi/works here brother...just our duties in this relationship with Jesus and yield/hearken to Christ's Imperatives. Says me, sounding so scholarly but I'm not--this is boot-camp and pride no longer, since I don't "feel" a need to be accepted on this Forum--but to stand accountable and in need of correction when in error.

I see in this something like what I see here,

Romans 8:15-16 KJV
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

It's by His Spirit that we cry. In our unity with Him, what part is me? What part is His Spirit? What part is me? When our life becomes like His, because He lives in us,

Galatians 2:20 KJV
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

2 Corinthians 3:18 KJV
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Active coupled with Imperative,

Romans 4:17 KJV
17) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

And they come to be. In His command is the power for His children to obey.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is how I have studied for years, but not because of pride--to come to know/yada my Lord and Savior in a deeper, more intimate experience.

This is great stuff! And I also hunger for every nuance of God's Word, it's truth that sets us free, and everything in the Book is to bring us closer to Jesus, more like Him. And that's what we want!



Much love!

 

[Johann]

I see in this something like what I see here,

Romans 8:15-16 KJV
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

It's by His Spirit that we cry. In our unity with Him, what part is me? What part is His Spirit? What part is me? When our life becomes like His, because He lives in us,

Galatians 2:20 KJV
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

2 Corinthians 3:18 KJV
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Active coupled with Imperative,

Romans 4:17 KJV
17) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

And they come to be. In His command is the power for His children to obey.

Much love!

Well explained marks.
Your gift must be that of a teacher/preacher/servant.
J.