Address the issuers above that you have ducked around. Your avoidance is a classic Premil tactic.
23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!
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Address the issuers above that you have ducked around. Your avoidance is a classic Premil tactic.
Always Believing
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The same people that mock His millennial reign, as being full of reprobates that ultimately take over the world, also glorify their own present reign over this wicked world, that will be conquered by an antichrist.
Always Believing
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So much for fire of God coming down upon them gathered to make war.
It'll be a slaughter to feed the fowls of the air.
The Lord doesn't rule them that is burned up to ashes. He only rules them that are not slaughtered of the nations.
The BIG difference is that we Amils never portray the millennial world as something it is not. It is a world where the Gospel invades the blinded Gentiles and enlightens them. That is the only purpose for the binding of Satan - to facilitate the greta commission. The Premil paradigm is a delusion. It will never happen. This perfect pristine millennium that they invent with Christ and the glorified saints reigning in unparalleled glory over subjugated creation is a myth. It is nowhere to be found in Rev 20. It belongs to their fiction books. It is this mythical depiction that we Amils reject and refute.
It is this concept of Christ ruling on the earth in some so-called future golden age before the new heavens and new earth with a rod of iron with sin and wickedness supposedly subjugated that makes this belief hard to imagine. How can such a huge number of people that have so dutifully submitted themselves unto Christ’s perfect and righteous government be so effortlessly, and in such a short time, enticed to switch allegiance just because Satan is loosed? Is Satan able to exercise a stronger influence upon the many millennial inhabitants in a short period of time than Christ could in all His glory for a thousand years on the earth? Plainly Christ is unsuccessful in his reign over the nations, whereas Satan is massively successful in his scheme. The sovereign rod or staff or sceptre of authority proves no match for Satan’s. How could that be? This is a picture that Amil doesn’t see or accept as remotely plausible.
So what qualifies a human to avoid the slaughter of the nations at Christ's coming and inherit your millennial earth?
Always Believing
Active Member
And here we truly have the amil manner of spirit:
Not one word about the millennial rule is that of a shepherd as well as judge.
And here we have it. They will be joining in on the fun of mass destruction.
They can't wait until their christ comes and be done with all the hidden church militancy, and get on with openly pounding all flesh to shivers. Whether it's the aged, men, women, children, or babes in their mothers' arms. It's all fair game for them.
And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
The only christ to come and even think to do what they are talking about, is the last great false one on earth.
And these men the sons of Zeruiah be too hard for me: the LORD shall reward the doer of evil according to his wickedness.
Talk about the do-nothing weak making themselves really strong through much talk.
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies.
Amillennial boasting of breaking everyone and everything into shivers on earth, would make Hitler blush. And they speak such hateful blasphemy in the name of Christ.
Who out there is itching to start bludgeoning to death all flesh? Other than these sons of Zeruiah amils, of course.
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Not so. You referred to the biblical evidence but twist it to suit your theology. The coming of Christ is not to high-five sin and mollycoddle sinners. It is to judge sinners and banish sin from the earth forever. Premil ushers countless mortal rebels unto the new earth, but Scripture shows they are all totally destroyed. The new earth is incorrupt! Only the incorrupt can possess it. Your argument conflicts with clear and repeated Scripture.
Revelation 2:25-27 says, “that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule (poimaino) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be ‘broken to shivers’ (suntribo): even as I received of my Father.”
Why do you ignore the crucial words suntribo (to break to shivers) in Revelation 2:25-27 and patasso (to smite) in Revelation 19:15?
The same Shepherd who will comfort His sheep (the elect) will also destroy the goats (the wicked). This teaching is taken from Psalm 2:1-12. See what it is saying: “Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.Thou shalt break (ra` a`) them with a rod of iron; ‘thou shalt dash them in pieces’ (naphats) like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Why do you also ignore the Hebrew here? The Hebrew word ra` a` means to spoil: literally, by breaking to pieces; figuratively, to make (or be) good for nothing. The Hebrew word naphats here derives from a primitive root; to dash to pieces, or scatter.
The picture here is of a Shepherd with a rod. However, this is NO ordinary Shepherd with NO ordinary rod. The Shepherd here is Christ, and He is coming in His wrath at the end of this age to deal with the wicked thus the significance of the rod of iron. He is a jealous Shepherd who is finally coming to destroy those that have rejected Him. The shepherding is clearly associated with the FINAL separation.
There is no sense or mention of, or allowance for, survivors, as you imagine. All the wicked are destroyed. There is no one left to inherit this supposed future millennium full of sin and sinners, dying and crying, decay and disease.
The Lord encounters only 2 types of people when He comes – saved or lost, sheep or goats. The sheep enter into their eternal inheritance; the goats receive their eternal punishment. Nothing could be simpler. You invent some 3rd group of humans that are too righteous to be destroyed at the second coming, yet too wicked to be rescued, yet Premil argue among themselves who they actually are. The reality is: they don't exist.
Nowhere in any of these passages is there any insinuation of a 1,000 years shepherding (or ruling) over the nations -as Premil alleges. What is more, Nowhere in Rev 20 is there any mention of (1) a rod of iron, (2) Christ on earth, (3) and therefore Christ ruling on earth with a rod of iron for 1,000 years. You will only find that in the Premil textbooks.
LOL. What does that make God throughout the OT? Did God "make Hitler blush" in Sodom and Gommorrah and the other 5 cities He destroyed in total? Did God "make Hitler blush" when He destroyed all human flesh in Noah's day apart from 8 souls?
Always Believing
Active Member
What? Are you a Jew? Or are you one of those militant Christians, that don't believe Jews can be saved. Paul rebuked that in Romans 11.
To shut him up period. Not yet though. He still whispers heresy into the ears of the foolish. And tempts the lustful to sin.
What will never happen on earth, is you slaughtering all flesh to shivers.
It's better than the one you preach today, where all nations are still ruled by men and the unjust laws of men.
Your current millennialism is still a whole world of iniquity, with the prince and power of the air still walking about devouring souls at his will.
Your millinium that you rule is that of liberalism, communism, dictatorship, false religion, distopian wokeness, and is only getting worse.
And you mock Christ's future rule over the nations?
Mock away. Just because it makes your own millennium today to be the filthy mess that it is.
I wouldn't let you rule over mowing my lawn, much less the earth.
Because His time of reign on earth is expired. You ought to think first, then write.
You are. Your millennial reign stinks today. Look, just clean up all the mess, by destroying all the evil doers and leaders you wish. Then, I'll preach your millennium from the mountain tops. Until then you're just a millennial ruler in your own mind.
Because you're so-called rule over nations today is a joke. So is the sovereign stick and rod in your hand.
Always Believing
Active Member
It won't be like your ever-extended millennium today.
It doesn't have a sea, but that doesn't make it incorrupt. Trees will still grow and fall, and the unrepentant will be denied healing leaves to continue living on it.
The Shepherd will destroy the wolves, not the sheep. The sheep that knew Him not, will know Him and be saved.
Ruling them is not destroy them. There is no exercising authority over the dead.
Your lust for destruction is not of Christ.
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
True, first the armies around Armageddon, and then the goats left among nations.
This is your current millennial reign. Good job.
You first rule over a mess, then wait for you christ to come, so you can destroy your mess. It's typical of Satan to rule over his own children, and then destroy them altogether.
So, now you say there will be Christians on earth to judge with the unbelievers.
Now you say you are part of a resurrection, that will not happen as His coming again.
No, just neighborly enough not to destroy, but to save.
They don't know Him, nor how they visited Him. Are you also ignorant of how to love your neighbor for Jesus' sake?
Try reading the rest of the Bible. All prophecy of Scripture is not summed up in one chapter of the Bible. The prophecy of Jesus Christ coming in the flesh is not only found in Isaiah 53.
What does that make God throughout the OT? Did God "make Hitler blush" in Sodom and Gommorrah and the other 3 cities He destroyed in total? Did God "make Hitler blush" when He destroyed all human flesh in Noah's day apart from 8 souls?
1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1Sa 15:7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt.
Did God "make Hitler blush" here?
Truth7t7
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Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
You are a master at manipulating Scripture to make it fit your false teaching. You do not even put the references on what you write so as to give the impression to the ignorant (and the indoctrinated) that these passages are all together in the sacred text and that they teach what you have been taught. You also do not quote the passages in full because they would contradict themselves. You cherry pick references from Joel 3 and Zechariah 14 and attempt to merge them into one chapter. This is deceitful. These two passages are talking about 2 different times and 2 different events. You do that because you have nothing in Revelation 20 to show Jesus reigning during your supposed future millennium. It is a Premil lie.
Premils do not seem to think through the "proof" passages they advance to support their so-called future millennium. They do not realize that their placement of many tend to contradict with one another.
Joel 3 is speaking about the second coming of Jesus.
This is talking about the second coming.
Joel 3:12-19 says, “Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim. Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness"
There is no avoiding the fact that there will be no Egypt left to populate a future millennium at Christ's coming. This is a constant point in Scripture. You need to acknowledge this.
In keeping with the Amil understanding of this reading, Egypt continued to exist after the First Advent. Those within that ancient nation that refuse to yield to Christ will one join that rebellion throng throughout time that are condemned at the final judgment. It should be noted, Jerusalem will be holy and no strangers will pass through her anymore. The word interpreted “strangers” means foreigner or profane. Yet the Premil understanding of Jerusalem is quite the contrary. It sees countless rebellious strangers visiting it from the nations will go from year to year.
Ezekiel 40-47 is speaking about the old covenant
Ezekiel 44:9 says, “Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.”
It is amazing how Premillennialists can locate this temple with the re-introduction of all the old covenant practices and stipulations on the new earth after Christ’s return. If this is a literal description of a rebuilt future earthly temple where Christ will reign during a supposed future millennium, why is the Lord forbidding anyone that is not physically circumcised to enter His temple? Especially after Paul taught us in the New Testament that physical circumcision had been done away with?
Zechariah 14:16-21 is speaking about the first coming
Zechariah 14:16-21 says, “And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar. Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.”
Strangers/uncircumcised are prohibited here from Jerusalem and the temple! Egypt is alive and kicking! The Gentiles that come to Christ know salvation, peace, freedom, joy and blessing. Those who refuse experience judgment, misery, wrath, destruction and are cursed. Simple! That is the Gospel!
Zechariah 14 presents more questions and problems for Premil than it creates answers; none more so than confirming the identity and quality of mortal that will inherit the Premil millennial earth. Whilst Premil tries to depict the millennial mortals as righteous or righteous-leaning individuals their support texts present a contrary picture. The mortals that are welcomed onto the new earth in the Premil paradigm are those in Zechariah 14:16-21 who are described as “the families of the earth” who are “left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem.” These are clearly the basest of men that were involved and committed to the destruction of Jerusalem and the cause of God before being ushered into the Premil new earth.
The passage above shows that it will be mandatory for representatives of all the nations to attend the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem every year. If a nation doesn't attend, they will suffer drought.
How can this millennium Premils imagine have “every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16-17) yet at the same time because Jerusalem is "holy" place a prohibition that "there shall no strangers pass through her any more" (Joel 3:17) and “No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel” (Ezekiel 44:9)? This doesn't make sense.
Premil contradicts itself at every angle. It doesn't add up. You are avoiding the contradictions existing within Premil in regard to these 3 proof-text passages.
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So the wicked continue on indefinitely to corrupt your NHNE? Where does it say that trees will still fall on your new earth? The wicked being outside the gates means they miss the boat. They are in the Lake of Fire forever.
Not true. I prefer the sacred text to your taught teaching. II Thessalonians 1:4-10 records: “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”
There is an awful reward for the Christ-rejecter – this will come on that final last day when all will stand before the throne of God and receive their judgment. There the living and the dead will receive their just reward. Whilst the persecutors and mockers are being destroyed and sent to hell, believers will be ushered into eternal “rest.” The tribulation that they have concentrated upon the righteous will be turned on the perpetrators. The Holy Spirit tells us that Christ appears at His coming “in flaming fire” with the intention of taking “vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
The coming of the Lord will be fiery and climactic. There will be no survivors. The evidence for this is overwhelming.
Keraz
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Here is proof of your manipulating and cunningly omitting scripture:
What will happen when Jesus Returns, is the sheep and goat Judgment of the nations.
The 'sheep', the faithful Christian peoples, will take possession of the Kingdom. The 'goats', will go into the eternal fire, but not then, as we see in Zechariah 14:16-19. They must come annually to keep the appointed feast of Tabernacles.
Only at the Judgment of every individual, AFTER the Millennium, will anybody be Eternally destroyed by God. Revelation 20:11-15
This statement directly opposes Revelation 19:11:21
It also conflicts with the 'sheep and goat' Judgment.
Not much time left now, for those with wrong beliefs to get it right. Things will happen and you won't know which way to turn!
Zechariah 14:16-19 relates to the first coming. I have showed you that many times. Where do you get this teaching in the New Testament? Why are Premillennialists so fixated with taking us back to the old covenant? Do you not know that this has been abolished? Is Jesus Christ not enough for you? Is the cross not enough for you? Was the shedding of his blood not efficacious enough for you? He is certainly enough for those who are genuinely redeemed. He is enough for we Amils. They will not need mass blood-letting of countless innocent animals in the world to come to satisfy your misguided religious wants. That is ridiculous. Amils believe that the lion and the lamb will be at eternal rest in the age to come.
Revelation 19 is the end of the world. All flesh is destroyed in that chapter. There is no one left to inhabit your imaginary future millennium. This is another text that exposes Premil error.
Always Believing
Active Member
Do you have your own rod of iron made, so you can play-play at bashing heads, until you get to do the real thing? Do you use one of those punching baby balloons, until you go to work on real babies' heads?
Mighty doctrine for mighty mouths.
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Op Note
I started off in 2000 offline as a wobbling Premil. Y2K had fell through. A lot of what we had been told would occur as we entered 2000 never transpired. The 6000 years were finally up, and it was time for Jesus to come. But He did not. Some of the questions I presented were to get convincing arguments to support Premil. However, the more I asked the more i realized this was a non-corroborative view. It lacked other biblical support. It is Scripture that exposes the false teaching attached to Premil.
I started to question the position. I started to see what the Bible said, rather than man. I noticed that every single second coming passage i read was climactic. It showed a general resurrection/judgment. It showed the wholesale deliverance of the righteous through glorification and the wholesale destruction of the wicked. Creation would be completely and eternally renewed when Jesus comes.
After years on online end-time forums I have developed and tweaked these major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine. This has emanated from observing the many holes in the Premil position. The failure of any Premil to address the concerns in the Op is testimony to the fact Premil is extra-biblical. It will never happen. It belong to the manuals of man not the inspired text.
I started off in 2000 offline as a wobbling Premil. Y2K had fell through. A lot of what we had been told would occur as we entered 2000 never transpired. The 6000 years were finally up, and it was time for Jesus to come. But He did not. Some of the questions I presented were to get convincing arguments to support Premil. However, the more I asked the more i realized this was a non-corroborative view. It lacked other biblical support. It is Scripture that exposes the false teaching attached to Premil.
I started to question the position. I started to see what the Bible said, rather than man. I noticed that every single second coming passage i read was climactic. It showed a general resurrection/judgment. It showed the wholesale deliverance of the righteous through glorification and the wholesale destruction of the wicked. Creation would be completely and eternally renewed when Jesus comes.
After years on online end-time forums I have developed and tweaked these major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine. This has emanated from observing the many holes in the Premil position. The failure of any Premil to address the concerns in the Op is testimony to the fact Premil is extra-biblical. It will never happen. It belong to the manuals of man not the inspired text.
Address the posts above that address/expose and destroy your false claims, if you can. Your MO is avoidance!
Always Believing
Active Member
Tell us all exactly how many people, not already loyal to your group, you have preached your prophecy to? Who exactly have you told, that if they don't repent and get into your group, then when the Lord returns, you will be caving in their heads, and those of their household, for refusing to become like you?
If you haven't told them, then you are failing in your own self-declared prophetic mission and boast.
Go on, tell us how many you have preached your prophecy to, in order to warn them about their head-splitting to come at the hand of you and your christ.
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