23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[WPM]

Tell us all exactly how many people, not already loyal to your group, you have preached your prophecy to? Who exactly have you told, that if they don't repent and get into your group, then when the Lord returns, you will be caving in their heads, and those of their household, for refusing to become like you?

If you haven't told them, then you are failing in your own self-declared prophetic mission and boast.

Go on, tell us how many you have preached your prophecy to, in order to warn them about their head-splitting to come at the hand of you and your christ.

What does that make God throughout the OT? Did God "make Hitler blush" in Sodom and Gommorrah and the other 3 cities He destroyed in total? Did God "make Hitler blush" when He destroyed all human flesh in Noah's day apart from 8 souls?

 

[WPM]

Do you have your own rod of iron made, so you can play-play at bashing heads, until you get to do the real thing? Do you use one of those punching baby balloons, until you go to work on real babies' heads?

Mighty doctrine for mighty mouths.

1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

1Sa 15:7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt.

Does God killing men, women and children "make Hitler blush" here?

 

[Always Believing]

You are a master

Thank you, but it's just simply believing the words written, and taking God at His word.

There are too many that think they are masters, because they master changing His word into something else more complex.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

All the pseudo scholars hate keeping it simple and easy, because sophists love the thrill of intellectual exercise, that only errs from the truth of what is plainly written in the Bible.

The prophecy says the Lord will roar out of Zion and speak from Jeruslaem, and so I believe it. He hasn't yet, and so He will in the future, and it must be with His coming again to earth.

See how simple and easy it is to interpret prophecy of Scripture? Just believe the prophecy as written, and then we can interpret and teach it as written.

Interpretation of prophecy is already written in prophecy: all we need do is just repeat the words of prophecy, for prophecy to interpret itself.

Puffed up scholars love their long-winded expose's They could keep it simple to, and just say what they want to believe, and leave out all the cloking devices of professorial speak, ancient languages, manuscript arguments, etc...

But then, they would be proud of their never-ending science falsely so called.

This is talking about the second coming.

Joel 3:12-19 says,

So, you agree the Lord will roar out of Zion and speak from Jerusalem at His second coming to earth.

“Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim. Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness"

Jerusalem was a desolate at one time on earth.

For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

So will be much of the earth at the Lord's coming again, but it will not remain that way.

Duh.

It's one thing to take God at His word, which is good, but another thing to read a childish conclusion into it. The dead sea will not be desolate anymore either.

There is no avoiding the fact that there will be no Egypt left to populate a future millennium at Christ's coming. This is a constant point in Scripture. You need to acknowledge this.

I acknowledge Egypt will be desolate when He first rules out of Zion and Jerusalem, but of course I never accept any of your false prophecies thereafter.

In keeping with the Amil understanding of this reading, Egypt continued to exist after the First Advent.

And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The Lord is not now withholding rain from any nation not going up to Jerusalem to keep the Lord's world-wide feat of tabernacles.

That's because the Lord does not yet have a worldwide feast of tabernacles.

This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Also, the prophesied punishment is for 'if' any nation does not go up, not just Egypt.

Since you don't take the Bible as written, then you've lost any capacity to reason from what is written.

It sees countless rebellious strangers visiting it from the nations will go from year to year.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

And further, it's not even necessary to lie for no reason, in order to teach false doctrine. Doing that repeatedly is what shows you haven't even got the enough reasoning sense to lie convincingly.

The point is, you're not even any good at teaching false prophecy. A good false teacher of amil, would put you at arm's length.

Ezekiel 40-47 is speaking about the old covenant

Ezekiel 44:9 says, “Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.”

When they take hold the skirt of Jew to go up to Jeruslaem to hear the word of the Lord, that does not mean they will enter into His sanctuary, that is reserved only for saved and circumcised seed of Abraham.

Once again, your lying is unnecessary, especially since it makes no sense.

It is amazing how Premillennialists can locate this temple with the re-introduction of all the old covenant practices and stipulations on the new earth after Christ’s return. If this is a literal description of a rebuilt future earthly temple where Christ will reign during a supposed future millennium, why is the Lord forbidding anyone that is not physically circumcised to enter His temple?

Because He will be keeping His promise to the natural children of Israel to become His special priesthood ministering personally to Him, and for the nations of the earth.

Those in the first resurrection of the church will be reigning kings and priests of Him over all nations of the earth, with thrones of judgment throughout the earth.

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine


And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

This has not yet happen for any natural people on earth, including the children of Israel, who turned back from Him at the mount.

This is only spiritually fulfilled in Christ on earth today.

Especially after Paul taught us in the New Testament that physical circumcision had been done away with?

So is the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:16-21 is speaking about the first coming

You really are delusional. First, you think you are reigning with Christ in His millennium over all nations on earth, and now you say the Lord is commanding all nations to go to Jerusalem yearly? So that He is now keeping rain from all nations on earth but one?

You think for one second the Israelis today allow any nation to enter into their country, to 'keep the feast of tabernacles'?

The only thing interesting about you now, is not so much how false your teaching is, but how unrealistically false you make it.

It's a study in nonsense, decorated with professorial speak. I now preserve your stuff in your own file, as a lesson in how not to teach false doctrine.

 

[Always Believing]

So the wicked continue on indefinitely to corrupt your NHNE?

They will eventually die out by not being allowed to enter the gates and eat of the healing leaves for the natural body to live on.

Your own current millennium is still full of wickedness and the wicked, and the devil walks around as he pleases as a roaring lion, and the prince and power of your millennial air

Where does it say that trees will still fall on your new earth? The wicked being outside the gates means they miss the boat. They are in the Lake of Fire forever.

Not true. I prefer the sacred text to your taught teaching. II Thessalonians 1:4-10 records: “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

There is an awful reward for the Christ-rejecter – this will come on that final last day when all will stand before the throne of God and receive their judgment. There the living and the dead will receive their just reward.

True. Those saved during the Lord's Millinium, which you despise, and all the wicked since Cain, that are not in the first bodily resurrection of Christ's church, that you say you already have part in.

The coming of the Lord will be fiery and climactic. There will be no survivors. The evidence for this is overwhelming.

The only next coming of a christ making fire come down from heaven in your sight, will be the last great false one.

And his followers will be jumping with glee, when they see some of his enemies burnt alive.

 

[WPM]

Thank you, but it's just simply believing the words written, and taking God at His word.

There are too many that think they are masters, because they master changing His word into something else more complex.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

All the pseudo scholars hate keeping it simple and easy, because sophists love the thrill of intellectual exercise, that only errs from the truth of what is plainly written in the Bible.

The prophecy says the Lord will roar out of Zion and speak from Jeruslaem, and so I believe it. He hasn't yet, and so He will in the future, and it must be with His coming again to earth.

See how simple and easy it is to interpret prophecy of Scripture? Just believe the prophecy as written, and then we can interpret and teach it as written.

Interpretation of prophecy is already written in prophecy: all we need do is just repeat the words of prophecy, for prophecy to interpret itself.

Puffed up scholars love their long-winded expose's They could keep it simple to, and just say what they want to believe, and leave out all the cloking devices of professorial speak, ancient languages, manuscript arguments, etc...

But then, they would be proud of their never-ending science falsely so called.


So, you agree the Lord will roar out of Zion and speak from Jerusalem at His second coming to earth.


Jerusalem was a desolate at one time on earth.

For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

So will be much of the earth at the Lord's coming again, but it will not remain that way.

Duh.

It's one thing to take God at His word, which is good, but another thing to read a childish conclusion into it. The dead sea will not be desolate anymore either.


I acknowledge Egypt will be desolate when He first rules out of Zion and Jerusalem, but of course I never accept any of your false prophecies thereafter.


And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The Lord is not now withholding rain from any nation not going up to Jerusalem to keep the Lord's world-wide feat of tabernacles.

That's because the Lord does not yet have a worldwide feast of tabernacles.

This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Also, the prophesied punishment is for 'if' any nation does not go up, not just Egypt.

Since you don't take the Bible as written, then you've lost any capacity to reason from what is written.


Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

And further, it's not even necessary to lie for no reason, in order to teach false doctrine. Doing that repeatedly is what shows you haven't even got the enough reasoning sense to lie convincingly.

The point is, you're not even any good at teaching false prophecy. A good false teacher of amil, would put you at arm's length.




When they take hold the skirt of Jew to go up to Jeruslaem to hear the word of the Lord, that does not mean they will enter into His sanctuary, that is reserved only for saved and circumcised seed of Abraham.

Once again, your lying is unnecessary, especially since it makes no sense.

Because He will be keeping His promise to the natural children of Israel to become His special priesthood ministering personally to Him, and for the nations of the earth.

Those in the first resurrection of the church will be reigning kings and priests of Him over all nations of the earth, with thrones of judgment throughout the earth.

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine


And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

This has not yet happen for any natural people on earth, including the children of Israel, who turned back from Him at the mount.

This is only spiritually fulfilled in Christ on earth today.


So is the feast of tabernacles.

You really are delusional. First, you think you are reigning with Christ in His millennium over all nations on earth, and now you say the Lord is commanding all nations to go to Jerusalem yearly? So that He is now keeping rain from all nations on earth but one?

You think for one second the Israelis today allow any nation to enter into their country, to 'keep the feast of tabernacles'?

The only thing interesting about you now, is not so much how false your teaching is, but how unrealistically false you make it.

It's a study in nonsense, decorated with professorial speak. I now preserve your stuff in your own file, as a lesson in how not to teach false doctrine.

More avoiding and explaining away the inspired text. If Egypt is gone then they are gone. You have to resurrect them to fulfil your erroneous teaching.

What is Zion in the NT? It is heavenly and spiritual. You seem to want to take us back to the old covenant. You are fixated with that arrangement. The cross is not enough for you.

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.

 

[WPM]

They will eventually die out by not being allowed to enter the gates and eat of the healing leaves for the natural body to live on.

Which Left Behind book did you learn that from?

Your own current millennium is still full of wickedness and the wicked, and the devil walks around as he pleases as a roaring lion, and the prince and power of your millennial air

And? But Satan cannot stop the enlightening of the Gentiles since the cross.

True. Those saved during the Lord's Millinium, which you despise, and all the wicked since Cain, that are not in the first bodily resurrection of Christ's church, that you say you already have part in.

There are no wicked left to populate your imaginary future millennium. So, you reject the scared text.

II Thessalonians 1:4-10 records: “we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire (1) taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2) When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

The Holy Spirit could hardly have made this more water-tight: men either know God or they don't. To know God is eternal life (John 17:3). This was also the case in Noah and Lot's day. Nothing has changed. If humans know Him, they are rescued at His return, if they do not know Him, they are destroyed. Simple! Premils have no problems with this reality when it comes to Noah and Lot's day. They only get awkward and pedantic when it comes to the second coming, because it negates their doctrine. They feel the need to diminish the scale and timing of the destruction in order to populate their alleged future millennial earth.

The only next coming of a christ making fire come down from heaven in your sight, will be the last great false one.

And his followers will be jumping with glee, when they see some of his enemies burnt alive.

Not according to the Word of God - which exposes your theology. It would help if you actually read up on a subject or a doctrine before running your mouth off. That is probably too much to ask off you.

The OT outlines the Amil position in very powerful and detailed detail. It shows that the coming of the Lord will be fiery and climactic. There will be no survivors. The evidence for this is overwhelming.

2 Samuel 22:9: “There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.”

Job 41:20-21: “Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.”

Psalm 18:7-8: “the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.”

Psalm 68: 1-3 declares, “Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God. But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.”

Psalm 97:3-5 testifies, “A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled. The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.”

Isaiah 11:4-5: “But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.”

Isaiah 13:9-11: “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars (kowkab) of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.”

 

[WPM]

They will eventually die out by not being allowed to enter the gates and eat of the healing leaves for the natural body to live on.

Your own current millennium is still full of wickedness and the wicked, and the devil walks around as he pleases as a roaring lion, and the prince and power of your millennial air

True. Those saved during the Lord's Millinium, which you despise, and all the wicked since Cain, that are not in the first bodily resurrection of Christ's church, that you say you already have part in.



The only next coming of a christ making fire come down from heaven in your sight, will be the last great false one.

And his followers will be jumping with glee, when they see some of his enemies burnt alive.

The current universe and stars are all going to be changed when He comes. Christ will be the eternal light on the new earth! The whole description indicates this corrupt earth and the heavens (outer space) we know now will be no more when Jesus comes.

Isaiah 30:33: “For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”

Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree … For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”

This is total destruction – for who and what is left behind. This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed. There are no survivors!

Isaiah 34 is speaking about the physical change that affects the earth, heavens and elements when Jesus comes. Premil has to often change the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words in order to get that doctrine to fit. Premil explains away the literal meaning of text after text and replaces with its alternative definition. This is not the way that Scripture should be approached. This is classic eisegesis. There is so much Scripture that forbids the Premil theory that Premil is forced to spiritualize away the clearest and most literal of Scripture, ironically it literalizes the one book that is the most symbolic in Scripture (Revelation). This alone is grounds to reject the doctrine.

Isaiah 66:15-17: “For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.”

Joel 2:1-3 says, “for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.”

Joel 2:10-11: “The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?”

Nahum 1:1, 5-6 says, “God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies …The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.”

Malachi 4:1 says, “For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up.”

How many wicked survived in Noah's day?
How many wicked survived in Sodom?

You know, in both of these examples, all the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed. So will it be when He appears. All the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed, so will it be when He appears.

It is both the suddenness and the scale of the destruction happening that is enlightening for the end-time Bible student. No wicked survive. We are looking at utter and wholesale destruction. That is because the wicked are not qualified to inherit the new earth. Mortals are not welcome. Corruption cannot inherit incorruption.

All of these Old Testament passages agree with the climactic New Testament detail pertaining to the second coming that proves the Amil paradigm. What do you have? Nothing! All you have is the misinterpretation of one apocalyptic passage. That is theologically insane and abysmal hermeneutics. Your understanding of the same conflicts with multiple Old Testament and New Testament passages that show the coming of Christ to be the end.

 

[robert derrick]

Op Note

I started off in 2000 offline as a wobbling Premil. Y2K had fell through. A lot of what we had been told would occur as we entered 2000 never transpired. The 6000 years were finally up, and it was time for Jesus to come. But He did not. Some of the questions I presented were to get convincing arguments to support Premil. However, the more I asked the more i realized this was a non-corroborative view. It lacked other biblical support. It is Scripture that exposes the false teaching attached to Premil.

I started to question the position. I started to see what the Bible said, rather than man. I noticed that every single second coming passage i read was climactic. It showed a general resurrection/judgment. It showed the wholesale deliverance of the righteous through glorification and the wholesale destruction of the wicked. Creation would be completely and eternally renewed when Jesus comes.

After years on online end-time forums I have developed and tweaked these major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine. This has emanated from observing the many holes in the Premil position. The failure of any Premil to address the concerns in the Op is testimony to the fact Premil is extra-biblical. It will never happen. It belong to the manuals of man not the inspired text.

And so, all this amillennial millennialism you prophecy, (which is a contradiction in terms), is the result of being fooled by another bogus
prophecy of the Lord's second coming.

Rather than repent of false prophecy about the Lord's Millennium coming soon, that Scripture plainly warns against, you make up your own millennium on earth in it's place: The amillennium millennium on earth today.

Makes sense. Why repent of false prophecy, when you can make one yourself.

Of course, you'd be better off just preaching amillennialism, and denying He ever will rule over nations on earth with His saints. It's far better than falsely prophesying this current dystopian version of yours, that you also say will end in getting your vengeance on all people on earth, for not joining you.

I'm not joining you at all. And you will not ever be so much as poking me with a rod of iron, much less killing me with one.

This Christian 'Final Solution' of your's is false.

 

[WPM]

And so, all this amillennial millennialism you prophecy, (which is a contradiction in terms), is the result of being fooled by another bogus
prophecy of the Lord's second coming.

Rather than repent of false prophecy about the Lord's Millennium coming soon, that Scripture plainly warns against, you make up your own millennium on earth in it's place: The amillennium millennium on earth today.

Makes sense.

I wonder why you are avoiding these simple questions? Obviously they expose your whole theology. I will keep repeating until you address these:

Did God "make Hitler blush" in Sodom and Gommorrah and the other 3 cities He destroyed in total? Did God "make Hitler blush" when He destroyed all human flesh in Noah's day apart from 8 souls?

1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

1Sa 15:7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt.

Does God killing men, women and children "make Hitler blush" here?

 

[Keraz]

Zechariah 14:16-21 is speaking about the first coming

Zechariah 14:16-21 is all about the Millennium, it matches neither the first Advent, or the Eternal state, as described in Revelation 21-22.
I said this on another thread:

Isaiah 65:18-25, speaks entirely about the Millennium. The thousand year that Christ will reign on the physical earth, over mortal humans. But the sound of weeping and distress will not be heard in Jerusalem; verse 19 and people will live for much longer, verse 20, There will be no more carnivorous animals; verse 25.

Verse 17 mentions the new heavens and earth, as a future Promise, the final fulfilment of God's Plan for mankind. We know from Revelation 21:1, when the NH,NE will come: it is plainly stated to happen AFTER Jesus has reigned for a thousand years and the final Judgment. The given sequence of all the things described in Revelation 19:11-21, Revelation 20:1-17, must take place first.

I find your vehement promotion of AMill, to be rather puzzling, You are obviously an intelligent person, yet you must make a thousand years, to not be a thousand years, you must make Satan impotent, when he drives people like Hitler and all of our fallen world now.
I have proved to you how we are now nearly at the end of 6000 years since Adam. The 7000 year Plan of God for mankind, is a fact and Jesus will be the King of the earth for that final thousand years. He came first as a suffering servant, He will come again as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Wrong beliefs, like Amill and the rapture to heaven theory, are not so bad for people, they are just somewhat personally confused. But the promote those false theories is another matter. You choose to denigrate and question the intelligence of anyone who challenges your beliefs. Not nice or pleasant interaction on a Christian Forum.

Your OP note, #938; is interesting.
But why go down the path of changing the meaning plainly stated Words, as in Revelation 20?
I agree that some of the premill doctrines, such as the 'rapture to heaven', are wrong. However; we are all agreed that Jesus WILL Return to this earth and what then?
We know what: from many OT Prophesies, the ones that confused the Jews in the first Century. The Prophesies that describe the Messiah as a conqueror and a ruler of mankind. Jesus will come as King of Kings and Lord of Lords - it will be His reward. Psalms 2:7-9

 

[WPM]

Zechariah 14:16-21 is all about the Millennium, it matches neither the first Advent, or the Eternal state, as described in Revelation 21-22.
I said this on another thread:

Isaiah 65:18-25, speaks entirely about the Millennium. The thousand year that Christ will reign on the physical earth, over mortal humans. But the sound of weeping and distress will not be heard in Jerusalem; verse 19 and people will live for much longer, verse 20, There will be no more carnivorous animals; verse 25.

Verse 17 mentions the new heavens and earth, as a future Promise, the final fulfilment of God's Plan for mankind. We know from Revelation 21:1, when the NH,NE will come: it is plainly stated to happen AFTER Jesus has reigned for a thousand years and the final Judgment. The given sequence of all the things described in Revelation 19:11-21, Revelation 20:1-17, must take place first.

I find your vehement promotion of AMill, to be rather puzzling, You are obviously an intelligent person, yet you must make a thousand years, to not be a thousand years, you must make Satan impotent, when he drives people like Hitler and all of our fallen world now.
I have proved to you how we are now nearly at the end of 6000 years since Adam. The 7000 year Plan of God for mankind, is a fact and Jesus will be the King of the earth for that final thousand years. He came first as a suffering servant, He will come again as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Wrong beliefs, like Amill and the rapture to heaven theory, are not so bad for people, they are just somewhat personally confused. But the promote those false theories is another matter. You choose to denigrate and question the intelligence of anyone who challenges your beliefs. Not nice or pleasant interaction on a Christian Forum.

Your OP mote, #938; is interesting.
But why go down the path of changing the meaning plainly stated Words, as in Revelation 20?
I agree that some of the premill doctrines, such as the 'rapture to heaven', are wrong. However; we are all agreed that Jesus WILL Return to this earth and what then?
We know what: from many OT Prophesies, the ones that confused the Jews in the first Century. The Prophesies that describe the Messiah as a conqueror and a ruler of mankind. Jesus will come as King of Kings and Lord of Lords - it will be His reward. Psalms 2:7-9

Do you know it is wrong to add unto Scripture? Where is a millennium mention in Zechariah 14:16-21? Your 7000 years theory went up in a puff of smoke in 2000. We must now in in the millennium then.

• Where in Zechariah 14 is a thousand years mentioned?
• Where in Zechariah 14 is the new earth mentioned?
• Where in Zechariah 14 are the glorified saints mentioned?
• Where in Zechariah 14 is Jesus shown to be on earth?
• Where in Zechariah 14 is the binding of Satan?
• Where in Zechariah 14 are the 2 resurrections/judgments?
• Where in Zechariah 14 is the release of Satan and an unparalleled global uprising 1,000 years after the second coming?
• Could any Premil please do a detailed comparison between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 (the two main often-presented Premil proof texts)?

 

[robert derrick]

I wonder why you are avoiding these simple questions? Because they expose your whole theology. I will keep repeating until you address these:

Did God "make Hitler blush" in Sodom and Gommorrah and the other 3 cities He destroyed in total? Did God "make Hitler blush" when He destroyed all human flesh in Noah's day apart from 8 souls?

1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

1Sa 15:7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt.

Does God killing men, women and children "make Hitler blush" here?

Your prophesied Final Solution is false. It's worse than Hitler's in scope and in accusation agaist Jesus Christ.

The christ you prophecy is the one He comes to stop and cast into the LOF, before he does kill off everyone that doesn't join him like you.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Jesus doesn't return to stop your christ, just to finish the job and give you a hand in it with your own shiny little club, as the one would say.

 

[WPM]

Your prophesied Final Solution is false. It's worse than Hitler's in scope and in accusation agaist Jesus Christ.

The christ you prophecy is the one He comes to stop and cast into the LOF, before he does kill off everyone that doesn't join him like you.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Jesus doesn't return to stop your christ, just to finish the job and give you a hand in it with your own shiny little club, as the one would say.

You must be on the back foot. Your silence on these simple questions is deafening. Your whole thesis is crumbling before your face.

Did God "make Hitler blush" in Sodom and Gommorrah and the other 3 cities He destroyed in total? Did God "make Hitler blush" when He destroyed all human flesh in Noah's day apart from 8 souls?

1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

1Sa 15:7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt.

Does God killing men, women and children "make Hitler blush" here?

 

[WPM]

And so, all this amillennial millennialism you prophecy, (which is a contradiction in terms), is the result of being fooled by another bogus
prophecy of the Lord's second coming.

Rather than repent of false prophecy about the Lord's Millennium coming soon, that Scripture plainly warns against, you make up your own millennium on earth in it's place: The amillennium millennium on earth today.

Makes sense. Why repent of false prophecy, when you can make one yourself.

Of course, you'd be better off just preaching amillennialism, and denying He ever will rule over nations on earth with His saints. It's far better than falsely prophesying this current dystopian version of yours, that you also say will end in getting your vengeance on all people on earth, for not joining you.

I'm not joining you at all. And you will not ever be so much as poking me with a rod of iron, much less killing me with one.

This Christian 'Final Solution' of your's is false.

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

How many wicked survived in Noah's day?
How many wicked survived in Sodom?

You know, in both of these examples, all the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed. So will it be when He appears. All the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed, so will it be when He appears.

It is both the suddenness and the scale of the destruction happening that is enlightening for the end-time Bible student.

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

 

[Truth7t7]

Do you have your own rod of iron made, so you can play-play at bashing heads, until you get to do the real thing? Do you use one of those punching baby balloons, until you go to work on real babies' heads?

Mighty doctrine for mighty mouths.

Childish response in complete diversion, Your backed into a corner and silenced with scriptural truth presented

Yes, Jesus returns in destruction of the wicked, just as a Potter destroys his vessels with a "Rod Of Iron"

 

[WPM]

Op Note

It is like pulling hens teeth getting hard biblical evidence out of Premils. I wonder why?

 

[Keraz]

Op Note

It is like pulling hens teeth getting hard biblical evidence out of Premils. I wonder why?

This sort of arrogant and rude comment just shows your mis-placed confidence in the AMill theory, which is so obviously unreal, as to seem that those who believe we are in the Millennium now, to be somehow mentally affected and unable to comprehend reality.

We who reject the AMill theory do have Biblical evidence that the Millennium does not come before Jesus physically returns.
It is sad really, for people to actually think this world situation is as good as it will ever get. Many Bible Prophesies promise great things for those who keep their faith during the forthcoming testing times, as mortals on the present earth, for the Millennium reign of King Jesus.
For the next thousand years, and then comes Eternity in the Spiritual new heavens and earth.

 

[WPM]

This sort of arrogant and rude comment just shows your mis-placed confidence in the AMill theory, which is so obviously unreal, as to seem that those who believe we are in the Millennium now, to be somehow mentally affected and unable to comprehend reality.

We who reject the AMill theory do have Biblical evidence that the Millennium does not come before Jesus physically returns.
It is sad really, for people to actually think this world situation is as good as it will ever get. Many Bible Prophesies promise great things for those who keep their faith during the forthcoming testing times, as mortals on the present earth, for the Millennium reign of King Jesus.
For the next thousand years, and then comes Eternity in the Spiritual new heavens and earth.

No, you do not. If you had it, you would give it.

1. You cannot answer the most basic of simple questions.
2. Your supposed proof-texts all contradict each other.
3. What you attribute to Rev 20 is imaginary.
4. You have zero corroboration for your opinion of Rev 20.
5. Multiple climactic Scripture forbids your error.

 

[WPM]

This sort of arrogant and rude comment just shows your mis-placed confidence in the AMill theory, which is so obviously unreal, as to seem that those who believe we are in the Millennium now, to be somehow mentally affected and unable to comprehend reality.

We who reject the AMill theory do have Biblical evidence that the Millennium does not come before Jesus physically returns.
It is sad really, for people to actually think this world situation is as good as it will ever get. Many Bible Prophesies promise great things for those who keep their faith during the forthcoming testing times, as mortals on the present earth, for the Millennium reign of King Jesus.
For the next thousand years, and then comes Eternity in the Spiritual new heavens and earth.

How about address the issues one by one?

 

[Timtofly]

Was Jerusalem desolated in 70 AD?

No. It was leveled to the ground, and no one could live there for quite some time.