No More Death

[Earburner]

The blood of Christ making atonement for sin has always been the only way to be saved. The blood of Christ made atonement for men/women of faith, like Abraham by hearing the Word of God and believing even from Old. The Old Covenant saints were saved by Christ's atoning blood before one drop was poured out. They were saved according to the promise of God, that can NEVER fail! That's why God preached the Gospel to Abraham, and according to grace through imputed faith Abraham believed God and was accounted righteous before God. Through faith Abraham was saved and blessed by God long before Christ came. Abraham was saved through hope, that is in knowing that God is faithful and none of His promises will fail.

Galatians 3:6-9 (KJV) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

The prophets foretold of the Messiah who would come to redeem those of faith from sin and death. This doctrine was well known to the Old Covenant nation. That which was not clearly understood was that the Old ceremonial and sacrificial system under the Law was no longer the way for Jews to be temporarily cleansed of sins. That did not before well known until after the body of Christ, the true Temple was destroyed. After that all the Jews of faith, having the Holy Spirit understood the Old was gone forever and the New Covenant in His blood began.

Hebrews 9:8 (KJV) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

I will be blunt, because I have said it many times. The factual and biblical truth is that NONE of the OC saints were allowed to have the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit at any time. (Malachi 3:16, fulfillment Rev. 6:9-11). It's a literal and spiritual impossibility!
That situation could NOT take place, not ever, UNTIL AFTER the Blood of Christ was shed. There is no other way that anyone can be made Holy enough, for the permanent indwelling of the Holy righteousness of God to LIVE in them. None were ever made that Holy, no matter how much faith they had.

Again, a "Promise" is not established until the manifestation of its practical working is ratified (made effective).

 

[ewq1938]

I will be blunt, because I have said it many times. The factual and biblical truth is that NONE of the OC saints were allowed to have the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit at any time. (Malachi 3:16, fulfillment Rev. 6:9-11). It's a literal and spiritual impossibility!
That situation could NOT take place, not ever, UNTIL AFTER the Blood of Christ was shed.

This is false and always has been. Anyone that knows the bible knows this.

Luk_11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Sometimes we forget Jesus said this under the old covenant which is the OT....pre-cross! Pre-new covenant! People could ask for the Holy Spirit! Certainly people had the Holy Spirit before the cross.



Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Num 11:24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.
Num 11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

Barnes:

I will take of the spirit which is upon thee - Render rather separate from the spirit, etc.; i. e. they shall have their portion in the same divine gift which thou hast.







Isa_63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

Eze_3:24 Then the spirit entered into me, and set me upon my feet, and spake with me, and said unto me, Go, shut thyself within thine house.


Num_27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;

 

[rwb]

I will be blunt, because I have said it many times. The factual and biblical truth is that NONE of the OC saints were allowed to have the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit at any time. (Malachi 3:16, fulfillment Rev. 6:9-11). It's a literal and spiritual impossibility!
That situation could NOT take place, not ever, UNTIL AFTER the Blood of Christ was shed. There is no other way that anyone can be made Holy enough, for the permanent indwelling of the Holy righteousness of God to LIVE in them. None were ever made that Holy, no matter how much faith they had.

Again, a "Promise" is not established until the manifestation of its practical working is ratified (made effective).

The Old Covenant faithful saints received the Holy Spirit; i.e. made spiritually alive after Christ's death when He through His Spirit descended into prison (captive to the grave), the lower parts of the earth, and then they too ascended with Christ to heaven spiritually alive.

1 Peter 3:18-19 (KJV) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

You view the promises of God in the manner of man, forgetting that Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world is how the Old Covenant faithful saints were saved by faith through the Spirit WITH them. They looked forward to the promise without doubting Messiah would come, and since the cross we look back at His finished work on the cross. Old Covenant saints, even though the Holy Spirit was not permanently in them was WITH the faithful saints of old. Just as the Spirit in us since Pentecost testifies to us of Christ, so too the Spirit with the faithful old Covenant saints would have testified to them the truth of the Messiah to come.

John 14:17 (KJV) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 15:26 (KJV) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:27 (KJV) And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[Earburner]

Sometimes we forget Jesus said this under the old covenant which is the OT....pre-cross! Pre-new covenant! People could ask for the Holy Spirit! Certainly people had the Holy Spirit before the cross.


Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

During the OC, the Holy Spirit of God could only visit upon those of mortal flesh. David experienced that and knew that, and for those reasons alone, is why he said what he did. The HOLY Spirit of God and His Righteousness could not and does not permanently indwell unholy beings, no matter how much human faith they may have expressed.
Your view is an attempt to blend the two covenants. Read more of the epistles of Paul and Peter and not that of the OT, and you will see (perceive) that the Old covenant has been totally eclipsed by the New covenant, through the shed Blood of Jesus.

 

[Earburner]

You view the promises of God in the manner of man, forgetting that Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world is how the Old Covenant faithful saints were saved by faith through the Spirit WITH them. They looked forward to the promise without doubting Messiah would come, and since the cross we look back at His finished work on the cross.

You are absolutely correct!
The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, but it was ONLY IN the eternal mind of God the Father and the Son, but not in the mortal minds of men under the OC.

You got part of this right: those under the OC looked forward to the "Promise" to come, but by human faith ONLY, because "the Promise" did not come in any part of their lifetimes. Therefore, they never HAD the eternally indwelling "faith of Jesus", which could only come, after His Crucifixion, and the shedding of His blood.

That is why we see all the OC saints of faith "written in the book of Remembrance" Malachi. 3:16, THEY HAD NOT YET RECEIVED THE PROMISE, WHO IS CHRIST HIMSELF. However, God did not forget them, for in Rev. 6:9-11 they were still waiting. We see them all, by the symbolic description of them all receiving "white robes", which is God giving to them the permanent Gift of God's Own Holy Spirit.

Personally, I percieve that you are not struggling with scripture here, but rather the preconceived doctrines of men.

 

[Timtofly]

"These are God’s ages to come. God’s ages are plural. There is the age of grace, and then the Millennium of Jesus ruling on earth."

Nope! That is not what the Textus Receptus Greek Text (KJV) says.

And.......

 

[rwb]

You are absolutely correct!
The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, but it was ONLY IN the eternal mind of God the Father and the Son, but not in the mortal minds of men under the OC.

You got part of this right: those under the OC looked forward to the "Promise" to come, but by human faith ONLY, because "the Promise" did not come in any part of their lifetimes. Therefore, they never HAD the eternally indwelling "faith of Jesus", which could only come, after His Crucifixion, and the shedding of His blood.

That is why we see all the OC saints of faith "written in the book of Remembrance" Malachi. 3:16, THEY HAD NOT YET RECEIVED THE PROMISE, WHO IS CHRIST HIMSELF. However, God did not forget them, for in Rev. 6:9-11 they were still waiting. We see them all, by the symbolic description of them all receiving "white robes", which is God giving to them the permanent Gift of God's Own Holy Spirit.

Personally, I percieve that you are not struggling with scripture here, but rather the preconceived doctrines of men.

The Old Covenant faithful saints were saved eternally in the same way we are saved after the cross! There is only ONE Covenant of Redemption and that is through believing the Messiah, Christ Jesus our Lord, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world keeps His promises to eternally save the faithful. The Holy Spirit's imputation of faith for Old Covenant faithful is the same for them as it is for us.

The faithful saints of old believed the promise, just as Abraham did! The that the Messiah/Saviour would come to save them and us from bondage to death. Our names have been recorded in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world. (Rev 13:8; 17:8) That's why Scripture says Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Those ordained to eternal life waited for the promise of the Messiah to come in faith, knowing, without doubting they would be redeemed from death. That's why saints like Job says:

Job 19:25-27 (KJV) For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Job went to the grave, as did all the Old Covenant faithful saints knowing that he would live because he believed God. And since Christ has ascended to heaven, Job, and all the Old Covenant faithful saints ascended there with Him as spirit (living) souls, and when Christ returns the words Job spoke will finally be completely fulfilled. Since Christ has come, the faithful don't have to wait after physical death to be alive through Christ. Because now in death we are absent (spiritually) from the body and present with the Lord in heaven. (1Cor 5:3-8)

Yes, I agree Rev 6 and the souls under the altar proves what I am saying. These Old Covenant faithful saints had to wait under the altar, which is to say they waited believing the Redeemer would come to save them from death. The next time we see them (Rev 7:3-8) they are being sealed, which is made spiritually alive by His Spirit, then they ascend to heaven with the Lord where we see them again in as 144,000 having their Father's name written in their foreheads (sealed), man redeemed from the earth, the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb (Rev 14:1-5). We see the succession of these faithful saints of God, dying in faith, then receiving the promise of heaven they patiently waited for (Heb 11:10-16). Now they wait patiently in heaven until time given the church on earth to build the spiritual Kingdom of God shall be no longer when the seventh trumpet sounds (Rev 10:5-7), then as spirit (living) souls they will return from heaven with the Lord to receive a resurrected immortal & incorruptible body of flesh to live as complete human on the new earth.

 

[Earburner]

The Old Covenant faithful saints were saved eternally in the same way we are saved after the cross! There is only ONE Covenant of Redemption and that is through believing the Messiah, Christ Jesus our Lord, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world keeps His promises to eternally save the faithful. The Holy Spirit's imputation of faith for Old Covenant faithful is the same for them as it is for us.

Yes, I agree with all that, but......they of the OC were NOT YET "made to BE perfect".

ONLY the literal manifestation of the shed blood of Christ can REMOVE sin from a person's life. Nothing else will do.

Like I said, If Christ's blood wasn't to be shed until next year of 2,024, we and all wouldn't be having the conversations that we do.
We, as well as all who would have died, waiting for the Promise to be manifested, would also be in the book of Rembrance, waiting to receive the "White robes", along with those "under the altar" of the OC. Malachi 3:16, Rev. 6:9-11.

BUT......WE ARE NOT, because He who was/is that Promise, DID COME, and for each of us who have come to God the Father, through faith in Jesus' shed blood, we are NOW given the permanent indwelling of His Holy Spirit.
Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ ["the white robe"], he is none of his.

EDIT: here are some good references revealing the truth about when the Promise was to come and be received:

Luke.24​

1. [49] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts.1​

1. [4] And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Acts.2​

1. [33] Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
2. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[Timtofly]

Hell is meaning the graves, and all who remain in them [being bound in captivity], that were not resurrected unto eternal life, are cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS the second death.
Rev. 20
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
They will never to be resurrected into eternal life and immortality, and on earth, there will be NO MORE BORN.

Upon Jesus' Glorious return in His Immortality, ALL the saints will have been resurrected into Heaven, and ALL the unsaved will have been burned up by His eternal "flaming fire", the cause of the lake of fire.
Yes, there will be no more death, because there will be no more births.

The soul in Abraham's bosom was being asleep.

That is death in the OT.

Not any more.


Since the Cross they are all physically alive in Paradise. They are neither asleep nor dead. They are more alive then you and I are. We are still dead in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. And most theology has the church asleep, literally dead.

 

[Earburner]

The soul in Abraham's bosom was being asleep.

That is death in the OT.

Not any more.


Since the Cross they are all physically alive in Paradise. They are neither asleep nor dead. They are more alive then you and I are. We are still dead in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. And most theology has the church asleep, literally dead.

Abraham's bosom is not scriptural.

However, the "book of Remembrance" to God is scriptural. Malachi 3:16.
All of such are seen in Rev. 6:9-11, receiving "the Promise" of the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God [on Pentecost], symbolized as a "white robe", being given to each who were under the altar, symbolizing those who were remembered by God, who died in faith under the OC.

 

[rwb]

Yes, I agree with all that, but......they of the OC were NOT YET "made to BE perfect".

ONLY the literal manifestation of the shed blood of Christ can REMOVE sin from a person's life. Nothing else will do.

You are absolutely wrong! None shall be made perfect until the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete! The literal shedding of Christ's atoning blood is proof the promises of God NEVER fail! Which is why all the Old Covenant faithful saints have now ascended to heaven as God promised.

You have said more than once that God sees what is past, present and future at the same time. Now you seem to be denying what you've said. Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world was ordained in heaven before creation and is as though His precious blood had already been poured out for ALL of His people whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world. The faithful did not, before the cross, nor after the cross, have to wait to be eternally saved by the blood of the Lamb. The precious promises of God in His mind had already saved them from the foundation of the world.

John was shown a vision originating from the foundation of the world and he's shown the Lamb's Book of life that was sealed and no one in heaven or earth was able to open the book, except the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David was able to open the book because He is the Lamb as it had been slain already from before creation. In the mind of God the sacrificial blood of the Lamb had already been shed for whosoever among mankind has been written in the Book of Life, for they are those ordained to believe according to grace through faith.

Revelation 5:1-6 (KJV) And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Yes, it is true Christ must come and literally fulfill the promise ordained in heaven through God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. But since no promise of God will fail, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world was already finished through His precious atoning blood. There was NEVER any doubt that all that was ordained in heaven through the Father, Spirit, and Son would come to pass. That's why the Old Covenant faithful saints who lived and died before the advent of Christ coming to earth a man, were carried after death, not to the place of the DEAD, but were carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom (Lu 16:19-31) where the saints find comfort and rest. But those who died in unbelief were buried in the grave, where for them was only silence and darkness.

The Old Covenant faithful saints did not have to wait for Christ to literally come to make atonement for them by His cross. Because He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. But they could not ascend to heaven spiritually alive until Christ defeated death by His resurrection.

 

[Earburner]

You are absolutely wrong! None shall be made perfect until the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete! The literal shedding of Christ's atoning blood is proof the promises of God NEVER fail! Which is why all the Old Covenant faithful saints have now ascended to heaven as God promised.

You have said more than once that God sees what is past, present and future at the same time. Now you seem to be denying what you've said. Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world was ordained in heaven before creation and is as though His precious blood had already been poured out for ALL of His people whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world. The faithful did not, before the cross, nor after the cross, have to wait to be eternally saved by the blood of the Lamb. The precious promises of God in His mind had already saved them from the foundation of the world.

John was shown a vision originating from the foundation of the world and he's shown the Lamb's Book of life that was sealed and no one in heaven or earth was able to open the book, except the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David was able to open the book because He is the Lamb as it had been slain already from before creation. In the mind of God the sacrificial blood of the Lamb had already been shed for whosoever among mankind has been written in the Book of Life, for they are those ordained to believe according to grace through faith.

Revelation 5:1-6 (KJV) And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Yes, it is true Christ must come and literally fulfill the promise ordained in heaven through God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. But since no promise of God will fail, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world was already finished through His precious atoning blood. There was NEVER any doubt that all that was ordained in heaven through the Father, Spirit, and Son would come to pass. That's why the Old Covenant faithful saints who lived and died before the advent of Christ coming to earth a man, were carried after death, not to the place of the DEAD, but were carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom (Lu 16:19-31) where the saints find comfort and rest. But those who died in unbelief were buried in the grave, where for them was only silence and darkness.

The Old Covenant faithful saints did not have to wait for Christ to literally come to make atonement for them by His cross. Because He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. But they could not ascend to heaven spiritually alive until Christ defeated death by His resurrection.

Unfortunately, you are playing with semantics, whereas I am not.

Since the Eternal Christ has come in mortal flesh, as you and I should believe, then at THAT time, 2,023 years ago, the prophesied "promise to come"....CAME, who is Jesus in the flesh, and therefore God's promise of "THE Promise", who is Jesus Himself, was THEN manifested and fulfilled, by His mortal death and bodily resurrection into Immortality.

Hence, on Pentecost, the "Promised One", now COMES to us by HIS Spirit, bringing within himself the Father, who is Himself "the promise" of the Father's Gift of His Holy Spirit, making Him available to all, through faith in His Son, which is still being gifted through the veil of the flesh of Jesus. Rom. 8:8-9.

The book with the seven seals is the book of Revelation.

 

[Earburner]

The Old Covenant faithful saints received the Holy Spirit; i.e. made spiritually alive after Christ's death when He through His Spirit descended into prison (captive to the grave), the lower parts of the earth, and then they too ascended with Christ to heaven spiritually alive.

That very visual event is seen in Rev. 6:9-11, of all who had died, but were under the altar of the OC, as also seen in Malachi 3:16, whose names were written in the book of Remembrance.

After Christ's blood was shed, those who died in faith, under the OC., were given on Pentecost, "White robes", which is symbolic of God's Holy Spirit, and the permanency of His indwelling of them. Thus, their names were then translated from "the book of Remembrance" and into the Book of Life, of which is Jesus Himself.

Albeit, both "books" are symbolic of God's care for all who come to Him through faith, both those who waited for "the Promised One to come", under the OC, and those who NOW receive Him under the NC.
However, NO ONE permanently received God's GIFT of eternal life, UNTIL after the literal shedding of the blood of Christ, the Promised One who CAME, and was physically manifested among us. 1 John 5:12-13.

 

[Earburner]

You are absolutely wrong! None shall be made perfect until the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete! The literal shedding of Christ's atoning blood is proof the promises of God NEVER fail! Which is why all the Old Covenant faithful saints have now ascended to heaven as God promised.

Mat. 5[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perLife.

That perfection only comes by belief in the literal shed blood of Christ, for the forgiveness of all sin, and then the receiving of the permanent indwelling of His Holy Spirit, the Gift of Eternal life.

 

[rwb]

Unfortunately, you are playing with semantics, whereas I am not.

Since the Eternal Christ has come in mortal flesh, as you and I should believe, then at THAT time, 2,023 years ago, the prophesied "promise to come"....CAME, who is Jesus in the flesh, and therefore God's promise of "THE Promise", who is Jesus Himself, was THEN manifested and fulfilled, by His mortal death and bodily resurrection into Immortality.

Hence, on Pentecost, the "Promised One", now COMES to us by HIS Spirit, bringing within himself the Father, who is Himself "the promise" of the Father's Gift of His Holy Spirit, making Him available to all, through faith in His Son, which is still being gifted through the veil of the flesh of Jesus. Rom. 8:8-9.

The book with the seven seals is the book of Revelation.

Yes, Christ must literally come as was promised. What you fail to realize is that the promise to save a people through the blood of the Lamb was already finished from the foundation of the world. Because the promises of God shall NEVER fail. Atonement through the blood of the precious Lamb of God was finished from the foundation of the world through promise. At that moment whosoever was written in the Lamb's Book of Life were already eternally secure through Him. Because they would be physically born to be eternally saved, and once saved they are saved forever.

Hebrews 4:3 (KJV) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Psalm 37:28 (KJV) For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Psalm 125:1-2 (KJV) A Song of degrees. They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever. As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.

The cross of Christ did more than atone for sin. His cross also defeated Satan by destroying the power he was had to hold people in fear of bondage to death. That bondage is now broken for whosoever believes. In Christ means that death cannot harm us, whether the faithful lived and died before the cross or after. The bondage to sin was defeated by His atoning blood, and the bondage to death was defeated by His resurrection.

The little book John was instructed to eat and made his belly bitter, is the message he had already declared to the Jews, and is now told he must prophesy again to all the nations of the world is the Gospel of Christ. It is the message of the Gospel that is a sweet savor to all who are eternally saved by it, but it is a bitter message for all who refuse to believe.

2 Corinthians 2:15-17 (KJV) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

 

[rwb]

That very visual event is seen in Rev. 6:9-11, of all who had died, but were under the altar of the OC, as also seen in Malachi 3:16, whose names were written in the book of Remembrance.

After Christ's blood was shed, those who died in faith, under the OC., were given on Pentecost, "White robes", which is symbolic of God's Holy Spirit, and the permanency of His indwelling of them. Thus, their names were then translated from "the book of Remembrance" and into the Book of Life, of which is Jesus Himself.

Albeit, both "books" are symbolic of God's care for all who come to Him through faith, both those who waited for "the Promised One to come", under the OC, and those who NOW receive Him under the NC.
However, NO ONE permanently received God's GIFT of eternal life, UNTIL after the literal shedding of the blood of Christ, the Promised One who CAME, and was physically manifested among us. 1 John 5:12-13.

They were under the altar because the altar was the place where the blood was shed to make atonement for sin. To be under the altar meant they had died as martyrs for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. IOW they died believing the message the prophets foretell of the Messiah who would come and redeem them from death. They believed the message of that which was ordained in heaven before creation, and their names, along with the names of all who shall be saved, were written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world.

The white robes they had been given symbolized them as having already been washed in the blood of the Lamb, which made them white, symbolizing faithfulness, and purity. They could not ascend to heaven when they died because Christ had not yet physically died and defeated death for them. Defeating Satan's power to hold people in bondage to fear of death would not be finished until Christ literally came to earth a man. That's because He had to become fully human, yet being fully God, and bodily (as a human being) resurrect from the grave to prove death could not hold all who believed in Him.

The book of remembrance spoken through the prophet Malachi is a recording of the deeds and actions done by man. At the GWTJ there are books, recording and condemning all the works done by the dead during their lifetimes. Malachi indicates that there is also a book recording all the deeds and actions of the faithful. Because God records and remembers everything man does in life, both good and evil.

Romans 14:10 (KJV) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 (KJV) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The other Book that shall be opened in the Book of Life. Since the names of the DEAD shall not be found written there, they will be cast into the lake of fire that is the second death. (Rev 20:11-15)

It matters not if we lived and died before the first advent of Christ, or after, whosoever believes in the Messiah, Christ HAS from the moment they believe through the power of the Spirit WITH them, and now IN us are eternally secure according to the Covenant of Redemption ordained in heaven before the foundation of the world between the triune Godhead; the Father, Spirit, and the Son.

1 John 5:10-11 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

 

[rwb]

Mat. 5[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perLife.

That perfection only comes by belief in the literal shed blood of Christ, for the forgiveness of all sin, and then the receiving of the permanent indwelling of His Holy Spirit, the Gift of Eternal life.

None will be made perfect as Christ is perfect until we become immortal & incorruptible with our eternal spirit when the seventh trumpet sounds when the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, and time given the church to proclaim the Gospel shall be no longer. In this age, being in Christ, we strive for perfection, and in the age to come we will no longer strive, for will shall be like Him.

1 John 3:2 (KJV) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Earburner]

None will be made perfect as Christ is perfect until we become immortal & incorruptible with our eternal spirit when the seventh trumpet sounds when the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, and time given the church to proclaim the Gospel shall be no longer. In this age, being in Christ, we strive for perfection, and in the age to come we will no longer strive, for will shall be like Him.

1 John 3:2 (KJV) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You don't understand. Because of the Holy Spirit of Christ permanently dwelling within the believing born again Christian, through His sacrificial shed blood [past tense], we are MADE TO BE PERFECT, in the eyes of the Father, while we are still in our mortal flesh. Otherwise, God Himself would not be able to dwell within us AT ALL.
The Father needed the sacrifice of His Eternal Son, just as much as we do.

What did you think, that we being "partakers of the divine nature", is only an expression for our future immortaliy?? No, it's right NOW.
"We HAVE this treasure [of God Himself] in earthen vessels [our mortal bodies]."
Just that scripture alone, should tell us all WHAT the NEW Earth shall be.
1 John 5:12-13.

 

[rwb]

You don't understand. Because of the Holy Spirit of Christ permanently dwelling within the believing born again Christian, through His sacrificial shed blood [past tense], we are MADE TO BE PERFECT, in the eyes of the Father, while we are still in our mortal flesh. Otherwise, God Himself would not be able to dwell within us AT ALL.
The Father needed the sacrifice of His Eternal Son, just as much as we do.

What did you think, that we being "partakers of the divine nature", is only an expression for out future immortaliy?? No, it's right NOW.
"We HAVE this treasure [of God Himself] in earthen vessels [our mortal bodies]."

We partake of His divine nature SPIRITUALLY now in this age, through His Spirit in us! We will not be perfect, as He is perfect until we are once again complete with immortal & incorruptible physical bodies reunited with our eternal spirit. When we are complete living soul once again, as we were at creation, we will be complete/perfect.

 

[Earburner]

We partake of His divine nature SPIRITUALLY now in this age, through His Spirit in us! We will not be perfect, as He is perfect until we are once again complete with immortal & incorruptible physical bodies reunited with our eternal spirit. When we are complete living soul once again, as we were at creation, we will be complete/perfect.

Nope! You still are not seeing it.
To be born again by His Holy Spirit, is not a sign around your neck saying that you are born again, just because you read His words.
It's simply said in the following way:
Rom. 8:8-9
[8] So then they that are in the flesh [only] cannot please God.

[9] But ye are not in the flesh [only], but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
That means NO resurrection into ANY kind of life, whatsoever. Whether that be IMMORTALITY OR MORTALITY.

All of such will remain condemned and dead for all eternity. Why?
John 3:18.......because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Through faith in Christ, we already have Eternal Life. The vehicle of that Gift is His ETERNAL Holy Spirit. We are just waiting for His return from Heaven, to be immortalized into His likeness.
Again, 1 John 5:12-13.