What is the one true Church?

[Grailhunter]

Those words and terms (like "Bishop") already existed in Greek. They weren't "invented" later.

The words could not exist in the Greek! LOL We are talking about the Greek language.....not the Greek-English language. And yes English developed later....much later.

 

[Grailhunter]

Do you even understand what "translate" means?

I do understand but you cannot translate one language to a language that does not exist. Greek cannot be translated into English until English exist and taking English words and inserting them into earlier time period is an attempt to deceive.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I certainly do......and the attempt to deceive is very clear.

No you don't - and I believe I have A<PLY illustrated this to anyone reading . . .

The words could not exist in the Greek! LOL We are talking about the Greek language.....not the Greek-English language. And yes English developed later....much later.

Your ignorance is frightening.

The fact that you don't have the slightest grasp of the concept of translation is just frightening . . .

 

[Augustin56]

LOL Ya I know there are Catholics that do not like the Roman connection, but I assure you it was all about Rome to begin with. Emperor Constantine built Christians a city called Byzantium. And any physical enforcement of any Christian ruling was done by the empire.

Rome is just a place. The Church started in the Middle East and spread. St. Peter, the first Pope, went to Rome, where he was eventually martyred for the faith by the Romans. The Roman Empire persecuted the Church unmercifully until Constantine legalized it and they stopped persecuting it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I do understand but you cannot translate one language to a language that does not exist. Greek cannot be translated into English until English exist and taking English words and inserting them into earlier time period is an attempt to deceive.

Good grief - I'm sure your allies here are cringing right about now . . .

Whether English existed before Greek or centuries later is totally irrelevant.
And whether a word develops over a year - or over 5 centuries is equally-irrelevant.

As I educated you before - a translation is simply a word being presented in another language.

 

[Illuminator]

The true church is those who know Jesus. Not churchianity.

That depends on how "churchianity" is defined.
But the Catholic Church is more than a spiritual institution. Apparently using “the strategy of non-coercive power” (Deus Vult: The Geopolitics of the Catholic Church, 2010),

• the Church runs 5,500 hospitals,
• 18,000 clinics,
• 16,000 homes for the elderly and those with special needs,
• with 65 percent of them located in underdeveloped and developing countries.

Consider Caritas, the confederation of Catholic aid agencies that spent billions of dollars for poor humanity. Then sum up all the small-scale charitable projects of more than 200,000 Catholic parishes around the world and those of individual religious orders such as the Franciscans, Jesuits, Dominicans, Opus Dei, Vincentians, and others.

Christians are only following the footsteps of Christ. The historical Jesus had a social mission, in addition to His mission of evangelization. The total liberation of the human person was foremost in the life and death of Him crucified, who was indeed never indifferent to the sufferings of others.

Jesus’ concern was not limited to the forgiveness of sins. He cured the sick, many of them, cleansing lepers, making cripples walk and the blind see. He fed the hungry, thousands of them. and so were His Apostles and the early Christians.

In obedience to her historical Founder, the Catholic Church celebrates the Eucharist and forgives sins (through her ordained Churchmen), as prophet preaches the Gospel without letup and, with the hierarchy and the laity, gets involve with the poor and the marginalized.

Catholic Church: Largest provider of health care services

The review of the history of medical care begins not with the Monastic Rule of Saint Benedict (AD 480–550) that articulates the tenet: “The care of the sick is to be placed above and before every other duty, as if Christ were being directly served.”

From the Gospel to the early Christian communities to the Benedictine Rule, Christ was the inspiration. The Catholic Church’s institutional apostolate for the sick gave rise to the gradual development of a more systematic nursing and medical care of today.

To fast forward a bit, during the Middle Ages (500 AD to 1500 AD), monasteries, bishops’ houses, and convents became the key medical centers of Europe. The Sisters of St. Paul of Chartres, founded in 1696, are dedicated to nursing, visiting the poor, and taking care of the old and infirm, orphans, and the mentally ill. Today, with operations worldwide, they have about 121 Sisters in the Philippines working in 13 hospitals.

Nursing pioneer Florence Nightingale, who cared for the British troops during the Crimean War (1853-1856), once said: “What training is there to compare with that of a Catholic nun.”

Catholic Church: World’s biggest charitable organization

Some consider the Catholic Church as a spiritual institution founded for a spiritual purpose – and only that. And I recall Josef Stalin’s quip to French

usa.inquirer.net

None of this could be possible if the Catholic Church is evil, corrupt power hungry monster as depicted by Grailhunter and Brokelite.
They just don't make sense.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am talking about the Coptic Church.
The Coptic Orthodox Church based in Egypt serving Africa and the Middle East. The head of the church and the See of Alexandria is the Pope of Alexandria is the Pope of Alexandria and the Holy Apostolic See of Saint Mark who established the church in 42 AD and also carries the title of Father of fathers, Shepherd of shepherds, Ecumenical Judge and the 13th among the Apostles. The Coptic Pope presides from Saint Mark's Coptic Orthodox Cathedral in Cairo.

WOW.

Soooo, you DON'T know that the church was ONE entity until the East-West schism in the 11th century??
And you actually have the gall to debate Church history??

The Church IN Egypt and IN Corinth and IN Ephesus and IN Rome and everywhere else was Catholic.
That's why the 1st century Eastern bishop, Ignatius of Antioch referred to the Church as the CATHOLIC Church.

 

[Grailhunter]

No you don't - and I believe I have A<PLY illustrated this to anyone reading . . .

Your ignorance is frightening.

The fact that you don't have the slightest grasp of the concept of translation is just frightening . . .

And it gets more involved than that.
The Greek word can be translated in the English language accurately as overseer.....It is an English word, do you see it. The position of overseer came to be Called Bishop in the Middle Ages....which is fine.....but you cannot say they new that term or position in the early church because if you said all these Catholic terms to them they would look at you like you had three heads......those words were not in the Greek language nor understood by the people of the time period. And this whole effort to do this is to deceive people into thinking that the Catholic Church existed before 321 AD.

 

[Jim B]

Rome is just a place. The Church started in the Middle East and spread. St. Peter, the first Pope, went to Rome, where he was eventually martyred for the faith by the Romans. The Roman Empire persecuted the Church unmercifully until Constantine legalized it and they stopped persecuting it.

So you admit that the Catholic denomination is an invention of a Roman emperor! At last!!!

 

[Grailhunter]

Rome is just a place. The Church started in the Middle East and spread. St. Peter, the first Pope, went to Rome, where he was eventually martyred for the faith by the Romans. The Roman Empire persecuted the Church unmercifully until Constantine legalized it and they stopped persecuting it.

Christianity existed in the Middle East and the Catholic Church and its connection to the Roman Empire started in Rome. The first person to officially hold the title of Pope....is after the English word Pope occurred and that was sometime in the Middle Ages....15th century?

Emperor Constantine did a lot more than just legalize it. He made it the state religion and this strong connection continued with the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire and the various kingdoms that developed in Europe.

 

[Grailhunter]

Soooo, you DON'T know that the church was ONE entity until the East-West schism in the 11th century??
And you actually have the gall to debate Church history??

There was more than one issue between the Catholic Church and the Coptic Church. Why don't you go over them.

The Church IN Egypt and IN Corinth and IN Ephesus and IN Rome and everywhere else was Catholic.
That's why the 1st century Eastern bishop, Ignatius of Antioch referred to the Church as the CATHOLIC Church.

The term Catholic developed after the biblical era, so the it cannot be referred to in the Bible.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And it gets more involved than that.
The Greek word can be translated in the English language accurately as overseer.....It is an English word, do you see it. The position of overseer came to be Called Bishop in the Middle Ages....which is fine.....but you cannot say they new that term or position in the early church because if you said all these Catholic terms to them they would look at you like you had three heads......those words were not in the Greek language nor understood by the people of the time period.

Uhhhhhh - NOT exactly.

The literal translation of Episkopos means "Over-Watcher" - epi- "over" (see epi-) + skopos "one that watches".

As I educated you earlier - MANY nouns (and verbs) have multiple words for the SAME THING.
Couch/Sofa
Carpet/Rug
Groceries/Foodstuffs
Things/Objects

YOUR game of limiting languages as they pertain to translations only works on the ignorant . . .

And this whole effort to do this is to deceive people into thinking that the Catholic Church existed before 321 AD.

And I've proves this WRONG on multiple occasions with actual historical documentation. that the Catholic Church existed from the FIRST century.

YOU, on the other hand have only presented your own pathetic opinions . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Christianity existed in the Middle East and the Catholic Church and its connection to the Roman Empire started in Rome.

The Catholic Church started in the Middle East - not the Roman Liturgical Rite.

The underlined part of your comment is utter stupidity.
Where ELSE would the Church in ROME it have started??

The first person to officially hold the title of Pope....is after the English word Pope occurred and that was sometime in the Middle Ages....15th century?

WRONG, Einstein.

"Pope" is NOT even an official title.
It is simple a term of endearment that means "Papa" or "Father".

Emperor Constantine did a lot more than just legalize it. He made it the state religion and this strong connection continued with the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire and the various kingdoms that developed in Europe.

Constantine legalized Christianity with the Edict of Milan
Christians were legally permitted to practice their religion alongside all of the other pagan religious approved by the state.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There was more than one issue between the Catholic Church and the Coptic Church. Why don't you go over them.

whether there was ONE issue ot ten thousand issues is irrelevant.
They were ONE Body prior to the East-West schicm in the 11th century.

They simply existed in different places.
Today, we call them "Dioceses".

The term Catholic developed after the biblical era, so the it cannot be referred to in the Bible.

Another asinine point.

The term "Trinity" developed after the Biblical era.
The term "Incarnation" developed after the Biblical era.
For that matter - the term "Bible" developed after the Biblical era.

As for "Catholic" -
Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you admit that the Catholic denomination is an invention of a Roman emperor! At last!!!

That's not what he said.

And I thought Grailhunter's posts were dishonest and stupid . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

The literal translation of Episkopos means "Over-Watcher" - epi- "over" (see epi-) + skopos "one that watches".

There is no Greek word for over watcher páno apó for over and φύλαξ -phúlax, means watcher. But the Greek word for over watcher is Hyperion's name and it means "watcher from above" or "he who goes above" from the Greek words hyper and iôn. Hyperion was one of four Titan brothers who conspired with Kronos (Cronus) to castrate and depose their father Ouranos.

 

[Grailhunter]

"Pope" is NOT even an official title.
It is simple a term of endearment that means "Papa" or "Father".

I think I would rather go with that.....the Pope is unofficial in all aspects of religion

 

[Grailhunter]

The term "Trinity" developed after the Biblical era.
The term "Incarnation" developed after the Biblical era.
For that matter - the term "Bible" developed after the Biblical era.

And trying to suggest they are in the bible is a deception.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is no Greek word for over watcher páno apó for over and φύλαξ -phúlax, means watcher. But the Greek word for over watcher is Hyperion's name and it means "watcher from above" or "he who goes above" from the Greek words hyper and iôn. Hyperion was one of four Titan brothers who conspired with Kronos (Cronus) to castrate and depose their father Ouranos.

"Hyperion" means "he that walks on high" or simply "the god above", often joined with "Helios".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(Titan)#:~:text=%22Hyperion%22%20means%20%22he%20that,often%20joined%20with%20%22Helios%22.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I think I would rather go with that.....the Pope is unofficial in all aspects of religion

No - just the word.
The office has been around since Peter.