What is the one true Church?

[Grailhunter]

First of all - the Coptic Rite is one of the Liturgical Rites of the CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Did not say they weren't.
At the Council of Chalcedon, in 451 A.D., Coptic Christians split from the Roman Catholic Church. Rome and Constantinople accused the Coptic Church of being "monophysite," or teaching only one nature of Christ.
But they buried the hatchet.

 

[Illuminator]

The true church is those who know Jesus. Not churchianity.

The true church is the one most persecuted for His name's sake.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, WHEREVER JESUS CHRIST IS PRESENT, THERE IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
(Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]). And Christ said, You can catch a taxi to the airport.

And Christ said, You can catch a taxi to the airport.
Using modern words and inserting them into ancient time periods is misleading.
So what is your point?

 

[Augustin56]

Did not say they weren't.
At the Council of Chalcedon, in 451 A.D., Coptic Christians split from the Roman Catholic Church. Rome and Constantinople accused the Coptic Church of being "monophysite," or teaching only one nature of Christ.
But they buried the hatchet.

The Coptics left, came back, and now they are split, with one Coptic group following the Orthodox and the other being in full communion with the Catholic Church. They're a relatively tiny group, and certainly not there from the beginning. And if they split from the Catholic Church, that implies, logically, that the Catholic Church was certainly there first. Otherwise, from what would they be "splitting?"

Small point here: The official name of the Catholic Church is not the "Roman" Catholic Church. The "Roman" label was merely a polemic by the Anglicans in the 16th century. The official title of the Catholic Church is just that...the Catholic Church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Did not say they weren't.
At the Council of Chalcedon, in 451 A.D., Coptic Christians split from the Roman Catholic Church. Rome and Constantinople accused the Coptic Church of being "monophysite," or teaching only one nature of Christ.
But they buried the hatchet.

The point is that your argument about the Coptic rite “preceding” the Catholic Church is nonsense.
It wasn’t a Church – but a Liturgical Rite. There is a Coptic Orthodox Church – but as we know from history – that split didn’t occur until the 11th century.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And Christ said, You can catch a taxi to the airport.
Using modern words and inserting them into ancient time periods is misleading.
So what is your point?

I don’t know how that text got inserted.
I never typed that. I never even thought it.

Bizarre . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

The point is that your argument about the Coptic rite “preceding” the Catholic Church is nonsense.

That is because truth is nonsense to you.

 

[Grailhunter]

It wasn’t a Church – but a Liturgical Rite. There is a Coptic Orthodox Church – but as we know from history – that split didn’t occur until the 11th century.

The Catholic Church can define them.....but they define themselves differently.

 

[Pearl]

The true church is those who know Jesus. Not churchianity.

Or cultianity!

 

[Grailhunter]

Small point here: The official name of the Catholic Church is not the "Roman" Catholic Church. The "Roman" label was merely a polemic by the Anglicans in the 16th century. The official title of the Catholic Church is just that...the Catholic Church.

LOL Ya I know there are Catholics that do not like the Roman connection, but I assure you it was all about Rome to begin with. Emperor Constantine built Christians a city called Byzantium. And any physical enforcement of any Christian ruling was done by the empire.

 

[Grailhunter]

And if they split from the Catholic Church, that implies, logically, that the Catholic Church was certainly there first. Otherwise, from what would they be "splitting?"

The Coptic Church dates back to around 42 AD, when the Apostle Mark is said to have visited Egypt. As opposed to the Catholic Church which started sometime after 312 AD.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don’t know how that text got inserted.
I never typed that. I never even thought it.

Bizarre . . .

That was a joke....I did it.
I am talking about the terms you used here
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, WHEREVER JESUS CHRIST IS PRESENT, THERE IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
(Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

The word Bishop is English.....English did not exist then.....the word he used was Greek meaning overseer.
The term Eucharist was not Greek and did not exist in that time period.
The phrase Catholic Church is referring to the fact that Christians believed that their religion was universal....for the world. Only logical that the church that formed after 312 AD would adopt that term as its name.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Catholic Church can define them.....but they define themselves differently.

Define WHO??

In the depths of your ignorance - YOU conflate a Liturgical Rite with a Church.
Do you even understand the difference?

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is because truth is nonsense to you.

No – it’s because YOU have a penchant for LYING.

I proved to you that the Catholic Church existed from the FIRST century, as shown in Ignatius’s Letter to the Smyrnaeans.
YOU claimed that it didn’t exist until the almost the FOURTH century.

As I warned you before - I will expose your lies at EVERY turn . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

Define WHO??

In the depths of your ignorance - YOU conflate a Liturgical Rite with a Church.
Do you even understand the difference?

I am talking about the Coptic Church.
The Coptic Orthodox Church based in Egypt serving Africa and the Middle East. The head of the church and the See of Alexandria is the Pope of Alexandria is the Pope of Alexandria and the Holy Apostolic See of Saint Mark who established the church in 42 AD and also carries the title of Father of fathers, Shepherd of shepherds, Ecumenical Judge and the 13th among the Apostles. The Coptic Pope presides from Saint Mark's Coptic Orthodox Cathedral in Cairo.

 

[Grailhunter]

No – it’s because YOU have a penchant for LYING.

I think you think the world lies and truth is lies and faith is believing the Catholic lies.

 

[Grailhunter]

No – it’s because YOU have a penchant for LYING.

I proved to you that the Catholic Church existed from the FIRST century, as shown in Ignatius’s Letter to the Smyrnaeans.
YOU claimed that it didn’t exist until the almost the FOURTH century.

As I warned you before - I will expose your lies at EVERY turn . . .

I think you are funny and I think that most here will think you are somewhere between funny and rude....with little substance.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That was a joke....I did it.
I am talking about the terms you used here
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, WHEREVER JESUS CHRIST IS PRESENT, THERE IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
(Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

The word Bishop is English.....English did not exist then.....the word he used was Greek meaning overseer.
The term Eucharist was not Greek and did not exist in that time period.
The phrase Catholic Church is referring to the fact that Christians believed that their religion was universal....for the world. Only logical that the church that formed after 312 AD would adopt that term as its name.

Are you STILL using this asinine argument??

Bishop is an exact translation of Episkopos.
Catholic Church is an exact translation of Ekklesia Kata Holos.
Eucharist is an exact translation of the GREEK word, Eucharista.

What aren’t you objecting to EVERY word in Ignatius’s Letter, then?
Follow, obediently, Jesus Christ, Apostles, Deacons, God – are ALL Englich words.

Are you SO ignorant that you don’t understand that a direct translation of a word DOESN’T invalidate it? It simply presents it in another LANGUAGE.

And “Catholic Church” is used as a TITLE here – not a description.
Later in the SAME century - we read the document, The Martyrdom of Polycarp:
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath.

As I have already examined, the words, καθ ολης (katah-holos) is GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal”.
The phrase in The Martyrdom of Polycarp - which, by the way, is ALSO written in GREEK - would be horribly redundant, if not comical. It would go something like this:
"... and the whole whole throughout Church throughout the world ..."

It is blindingly clear that this document is using the term Catholic Church as a TITLE and not a mere description or the wording would make no sense whatsoever.

It’s like arguing with an infant . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

Bishop is an exact translation of Episkopos.

Overseer is an exact translation of Episkopos and in more modern times the overseer was called the Bishop.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I think you are funny and I think that most here will think you are somewhere between funny and rude....with little substance.

And this post is nothing but deflective tactic to take attention away from the gact that I NAILED you again for LYING.