The Crucified Flesh

[amigo de christo]

I was with you until this: "Sad thing is i would have been championed as a good christain [sic] in a lot of churches , AND YET I WAS EVIL and loved my sin . They would have hugged me to hell and told me , OH GOD understands , or worse they would have supported and justified my sins to make ME FEEL GOOD and WELCOME".

a) Yet another condemnation of those who belong to Christ! You will pay in eternity for your condemnation of those whom Jesus has brought into His body!!!
b) I have never heard of any church in any place that would have supported and justified your sins (or anyone else's).
c) The body of Christ -- His church -- should welcome anyone and everyone. Period. How would anyone be saved if the church said "you must be righteous before you can enter our doors"?

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU??? WHY DO YOU CONSIDER THOSE WHOM GOD LOVES -- THE WORLD -- TO BE DESERVING OF HATRED AND JUDGEMENT??? Is there anyone (besides yourself!) who meets your impossible standard of purity and righteousness?

Again, "FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON, SO THAT EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM MAY NOT PERISH BUT MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE".

YOUR WARPED STANDARD IS "GOD DOESN'T LOVE THE WORLD. HE LOVES ONLY THOSE WHO COME TO HIM AS PERFECTLY SINLESS. ALL OTHERS DESERVE TO BE JUDGED BY ME AND THROWN INTO HELL!"

exposing evil behavoir is not sin nor wrong jim . nor is exposing those who lead in it either . Try and remember that .

 

[Lizbeth]

If you have children, do you beat them?

"...with the rod of His mouth..." when appropriate.

Do you believe the bible?

2Ti 4:1-3

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

 

[Keturah]

Much better definition my friend . yeah , that is what it is .
Do you notice something . it sure seems not all who claim to know Christ , truly KNOW CHRIST .
Not all who claim to follow Christ truly follow Christ . Rather i see a huge problem as sprung up big time .
many are following another jesus and another gospel , and it cannot save them .
I say its time we go back into bibles and learn Christ and all the holy doctrine and learn it well .
Examine time . For many are as I once was , the can lip the name and spout the game
but they sure aint following HIM at all .
I see a very grievious thing has occured in the land . exactly what paul , Christ , peter , jude , james and others
warned would come , HAS COME BIG TIME . The TIME has come that many no longer endure sound doctrine
but have heaped to themselves teachers who teach n preach a god , a jesus , a gospel that best fits THEIR OWN Lustful desires .
I see the time has come that many who lead now lead the people astray and that MANY follow their pernicious ways
of whom THE WAY OF TRUTH , IS EVIL SPOKEN OF . calling good evil and evil good . I see a great falling away
is growing massive now and taking many captive to a lie , to a image of jesus and of god that simply cannot save them .
SURE it makes them feel , FEEEEEL saved , but their hearts go after their own lustful desires .
WHERE is the PROOF of the CONVERSION . ITS IN THE FRUIT .
And proverbs well says what the fruit of the wicked is . IS TO SIN . I SEE Justfications of all kinds of sins , love of money
love of witchcraft , love of the idea that other religions no longer need to repent and believe on Christ . ITS LOOKING real bad my friend .
JESUS did not come so we could EMBRACE OUR SIN or sins . I see a social gospel jesus getting taught
which cannot and will not save a soul . Progressives have come from within , new age has taken over many places .
Men have become the gods and the god they serve is the god of self . WE GOT MAJOR problems my friend .

 

[Ritajanice]

Just a word for all the churches who consider themselves followers of Christ .

Thank you for posting your summary.

There is so much to understand of your post and teaching.....so I will ask the Lord to lead me through it and take in all that is being said, that’s if the Lord chooses to do so, after all we are led by the Spirit and we have that living relationship with God Through the Holy Spirit.

I do believe as soon as I started to read your post...the word Self Righteous came straight into my mind.....
A self-righteous person is defined as one who is confident in his/her OWN righteousness; a self-righteous person also shows superiority above all others, especially if they have a different opinion than theirs. Isaiah 64:6 speaks of the righteousness of the people as filthy rags in the sight of God.

thanks again for your explanation ,it’s very much appreciated.....

 

[Jim B]

exposing evil behavoir is not sin nor wrong jim . nor is exposing those who lead in it either . Try and remember that .

But it must be balanced by showing others the love which is from God. YOU NEVER DO THAT! All you ever do is judge and condemn others, making yourself out to be righteous and holy. YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT LOVING OTHERS MEANS!!!

 

[marks]

Something is wrong here-and it is not from my side. Who said you must 'overturn" the "plain" meaning of the "plainly stated teaching passages?"
Are you a cut above the rest?

I'm sorry, maybe I'm sounding differently from what I intend. I only meant to say I find the passages in the Bible that speak towards the permanence of our rebirth seemingly so clear that I can't help but think that's what is true. That rebirth is permanent.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Gal 2:17-18

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

I don't know who all the warnings, exhortations and admonishments are for, if not for us. Otherwise we might as well just erase them from the bible and then we'd end up with a much skinnier version.

It's all there for good reason. I wouldn't erase a single word!

That's a fascinating passage to me. If we choose sin after being renewed in the mind away from sin, we "unrenew" our minds. So did Jesus do that? No. I did it.

But I have a question on this. Where Paul says, "the things which I destroyed", what things did he, Paul, destroy?

Any thoughts on that?

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

But it must be balanced by showing others the love which is from God. YOU NEVER DO THAT! All you ever do is judge and condemn others, making yourself out to be righteous and holy. YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT LOVING OTHERS MEANS!!!

Keep in mind that we are here on a forum, with limited scope for interaction. Some people do have different gifts and emphasis, some for pastoring, some for counselling, some for evangelizing, others for dropping the plumbline and calling the church to line up with it.....declaring to "Israel" her sins. Though it doesn't necessarily mean anyone is perfect at what they do and never makes mistakes since we all need to grow and learn. I agree we need to have a balance overall, but that should be supplied by all members of the body contributing in ways that are according to whatever part of the body they are.

Here's a little part of an article about prophets that I think has some good thoughts in it - it isn't an easy calling and they won't win popularity contests, but rather the opposite - since their ministry can seem abrasive at times:

THE FORERUNNER - Preparing the Way

by Arthur Wallis


"Behold, I send My messenger, and he shall preparethe way before Me: and the Lord whom you seek, shall suddenly come to His temple" (Mal. 3:1).

In preparation for a great visitation, God may raise up many messengers, each preparing the way of the Lord

in his own appointed sphere. This is surely a day whenG od is looking for forerunners to blaze the trail of revival;

not smooth preachers, but rugged prophets: men of the stamp of Elijah, who, with the hand of the Lord upon

him, girded up his loins and ran before the king to the entrance of the royal city (1 Kings 18:46). Thus he

demonstrated the spiritual work he was doing as a forerunner. On Carmel Elijah had prepared the way of

the Lord, and now the Lord was coming "as the latter rain that waters the earth" (Hos 6:3).



Those whom God calls to such a ministry - and a call is essential - must be prepared for a pathway of

unpopularity and misunderstanding. "You troubler of Israel" was the way Ahab addressed Elijah (1 Ki 8:17),

and so this prophet whom God had sent to deal with the "Achans in the camp" (see Joshua 7:25) was

himself accused of being one. John the Baptist demonstrates also this element in the ministry of the

forerunner. Standing alone as the champion of righteousness, he unmasked the hypocrisy of the

religionists and even denounced the sin of the king upon the throne. This man, who was "much more

than a prophet", was called to seal his ministry with his blood, yet he succeeded in preparing the way of

the Lord. "Among them that are born of women there has not arisen a greater than John the Baptist"

(Matt. 11:11). A forerunner must be one who can say, "I truly am full of power by the Spirit of the Lord,

and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin" (Mic. 3:8).



Jeremiah was another forerunner. In a day dark with declension and judgment his fearless ministry

helped to check the evils of the time, and prepare the way for a reviving that he did not live to witness,

under Ezra and Nehemiah. The commission given him by the Lord is deeply significant:

"I have set you over nations and over kingdoms, to pluck up and to break down, and to destroy and to

overthrow; to build, and to plant" (Jer. 1:10). It will be noted that there is twice the emphasis on the

negative element as on the positive; two thirds of his ministry was to be destructive, and only one

third constructive. This is characteristic of the work of a forerunner. Stumbling blocks of iniquity have to

be taken up (Isa. 57:14) and stones of unbelief have to be gathered out (Isa. 62:10) if the way of the Lord

is to be prepared. The very word "prepare" contains this idea of casting out, emptying, and clearing as

a field before planting. Destruction, ruthless and thorough, must precede the greater work of

construction that is to follow. It takes a man who "fears no one but God and hates nothing but sin" to

proclaim the message of the forerunner.


[-From "In the Day of Thy Power"

"-The Scriptural Principles of Revival"

by Arthur Wallis].

--

 

[Johann]

I'm sorry, maybe I'm sounding differently from what I intend. I only meant to say I find the passages in the Bible that speak towards the permanence of our rebirth seemingly so clear that I can't help but think that's what is true. That rebirth is permanent.

Much love!

Hi @marks -I'm asking for forgiveness for my silly retort brother.

 

[marks]

So, if you are thinking about that same, as a Christian, then that it the old mind.
You have to get out of it.

"Behold, are you saying that if i try to be good i will be bad,....... but if i rest in the knowledge of who i have become in God's redemption, then i find deliverance into....>"Christ always gives me the Victory".

A.) yes

It seems backwards, upside down, but this is true!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hi @marks -I'm asking for forgiveness for my silly retort brother.

Much love!!

 

[Jim B]

"...with the rod of His mouth..." when appropriate.

Do you believe the bible?

2Ti 4:1-3

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

This doesn't justify mistreating others!

The verse you cited was ""Spare the rod and spoil the child" You are just giving yourself an excuse to be abusive.

Do you believe the bible?

 

[marks]

Yes warnings in the bible are meaningless unless they are written to believers.

For me the rule of thumb is given in John's letter, they went out from us because they were not of us, if they'd been of us, they would have remained.

There are those in the church who are not regenerate, and they need to understand the truth about themselves. So God addresses the church, saying, if you are an adulterer, you will not inherit.

And through Peter, God tells us, we've been born again unto a living hope, our inheritence reserved for us, and that we are kept by God's power, not our own.

Both passages are fully true, so what are we to make of that?

I think the answer is found in our identification as the spirit children of God.

These will not inherit . . . and such were some of you . . . so flee fornication . . .

In Romans 7, there's the discussion about whether this is the regenerate or unregenerate. I find the argument turns on the expression, "no longer I". The only thing that answers, "what changed?", that is, what does it mean, "No longer", something changed, he was reborn. Now it is no longer I, but sin that lives in me. Because I'm no longer the sinner born from Adam, I'm the spirit child born from God. No longer sharing Adam's nature, now I'm sharing God's nature. So don't act like the unregenerate, don't you realize? You join the prostitute to Christ! What he doesn't say is that we become unjoined from Christ.

God speaks here in a manner that we don't become disconnected from Christ by fornication, no, we drag Him into it, being joined to Him.

Much love!

 

[Jim B]

Keep in mind that we are here on a forum, with limited scope for interaction. Some people do have different gifts and emphasis, some for pastoring, some for counselling, some for evangelizing, others for dropping the plumbline and calling the church to line up with it.....declaring to "Israel" her sins. Though it doesn't necessarily mean anyone is perfect at what they do and never makes mistakes since we all need to grow and learn. I agree we need to have a balance overall, but that should be supplied by all members of the body contributing in ways that are according to whatever part of the body they are.

Here's a little part of an article about prophets that I think has some good thoughts in it - it isn't an easy calling and they won't win popularity contests, but rather the opposite - since their ministry can seem abrasive at times:

THE FORERUNNER - Preparing the Way

by Arthur Wallis


"Behold, I send My messenger, and he shall preparethe way before Me: and the Lord whom you seek, shall suddenly come to His temple" (Mal. 3:1).

In preparation for a great visitation, God may raise up many messengers, each preparing the way of the Lord

in his own appointed sphere. This is surely a day whenG od is looking for forerunners to blaze the trail of revival;

not smooth preachers, but rugged prophets: men of the stamp of Elijah, who, with the hand of the Lord upon

him, girded up his loins and ran before the king to the entrance of the royal city (1 Kings 18:46). Thus he

demonstrated the spiritual work he was doing as a forerunner. On Carmel Elijah had prepared the way of

the Lord, and now the Lord was coming "as the latter rain that waters the earth" (Hos 6:3).



Those whom God calls to such a ministry - and a call is essential - must be prepared for a pathway of

unpopularity and misunderstanding. "You troubler of Israel" was the way Ahab addressed Elijah (1 Ki 8:17),

and so this prophet whom God had sent to deal with the "Achans in the camp" (see Joshua 7:25) was

himself accused of being one. John the Baptist demonstrates also this element in the ministry of the

forerunner. Standing alone as the champion of righteousness, he unmasked the hypocrisy of the

religionists and even denounced the sin of the king upon the throne. This man, who was "much more

than a prophet", was called to seal his ministry with his blood, yet he succeeded in preparing the way of

the Lord. "Among them that are born of women there has not arisen a greater than John the Baptist"

(Matt. 11:11). A forerunner must be one who can say, "I truly am full of power by the Spirit of the Lord,

and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin" (Mic. 3:8).



Jeremiah was another forerunner. In a day dark with declension and judgment his fearless ministry

helped to check the evils of the time, and prepare the way for a reviving that he did not live to witness,

under Ezra and Nehemiah. The commission given him by the Lord is deeply significant:

"I have set you over nations and over kingdoms, to pluck up and to break down, and to destroy and to

overthrow; to build, and to plant" (Jer. 1:10). It will be noted that there is twice the emphasis on the

negative element as on the positive; two thirds of his ministry was to be destructive, and only one

third constructive. This is characteristic of the work of a forerunner. Stumbling blocks of iniquity have to

be taken up (Isa. 57:14) and stones of unbelief have to be gathered out (Isa. 62:10) if the way of the Lord

is to be prepared. The very word "prepare" contains this idea of casting out, emptying, and clearing as

a field before planting. Destruction, ruthless and thorough, must precede the greater work of

construction that is to follow. It takes a man who "fears no one but God and hates nothing but sin" to

proclaim the message of the forerunner.


[-From "In the Day of Thy Power"

"-The Scriptural Principles of Revival"

by Arthur Wallis].

--

"... others for dropping the plumbline and calling the church to line up with it.....declaring to "Israel" her sins". Just another rationale to be abusive. "Israel" was living according to the Law, not the Spirit.

The church is the body of Christ, or alternatively, His flock. Not yours! I'm certain that Jesus Christ can manage His own without your punishing them.

 

[marks]

You don’t believe he is judging, as we can see from another members point of view, he was judging in their opinion/ belief .when you say” he isn’t judging, doesn’t make it the truth...that is just your own opinion and maybe others,..not all see it that way..that is all I am saying and trying to explain.

I agree, we need to be careful how we speak, sensitive to how others will hear us. All the more so if we truly have a Godly and spiritual rebuke, lest it be ignored because of how we deliver it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hi Marks....what it means to be born again..WOW!....what happens to us in that rebirth, I can only answer and say, I was birthed in the Spirit, by the Holy Spirit..There is no way I could explain how God did that through the Spirit , repentance indeed is most definitely involved and the name of Jesus, Without Jesus there would be no birth.

​

◄ John 3:6 ►

​

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. New Living Translation Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.

In the past I have spoken about dead faith and was told it’s not biblical?
What does dead faith mean ?

In James, Dead Faith is faith that doesn't have works alongside that demonstrate the effect of faith in your life. You can claim to believe, but when you don't act like a believer, is it just words? Dead faith is when someone says they have faith, but they aren't different from what they were.

Being born again . . . we are joined to Jesus as He dies on the cross, and so we die also. We are joined with Him in burial, and when He rose from the dead, He brought us along with Him.

Dying separated us from the life we lived before, and we'd be dead, except that we've been joined to Jesus, so because He is alive, so are we.

We used to derive our life from living in these bodies, and the kind of life we had was determined by how these bodies are - corrupted by sin. Now we derive our life from the Spirit, and the kind of life we now have is determined by that.

We were once the corrupted by sin fleshy children of Adam living under the power of darkness, now we are the righteous spirit children of God living in the eternal kingdom of light.

Our death satisfies the Law of God, and Jesus Christ provided for us a "survivable death" that satisfies God's righteousness, and renders us righteous so we can be with Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

My understanding, again ,not saying it’s truth, just what I believe the Lord has led me to believe , the seed of God must penetrate the heart,imo/ belief, therefore one must be birthed in the Holy Spirit,a supernatural act, that only God can do...His Word is so very powerful when this happens, that there is no way on the planet that one can deny the existence of God,..He planted that seed/ testified with our spirit that we are his child.....I have always referred to my being birthed in the Spirit, as a bolt of lightning moment.....God’s word was so powerful, there was no mistaking it....just like, when a bolt of lightning strikes..pretty powerful stuff, but NO where near as powerful as the word of God!.

Before I repented, there was that moment of realization . . . Illumination . . . that the Bible was true. I fully agree, there was no mistaking this, no denying it, only, I knew what was true, and I could either accept or reject.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

But it must be balanced by showing others the love which is from God. YOU NEVER DO THAT! All you ever do is judge and condemn others, making yourself out to be righteous and holy. YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT LOVING OTHERS MEANS!!!

Its done many times . You just recognize love as what the progessives have sold you to be love .
Time gets shorter all the time . I must double down on the warnings . Though i be sure you will call me a hater for doing so .

 

[Ritajanice]

Before I repented, there was that moment of realization . . . Illumination . . . that the Bible was true. I fully agree, there was no mistaking this, no denying it, only, I knew what was true, and I could either accept or reject.

Thank you for explaining..when I was birthed in the Spirit,I believe he opened my heart, like he did Lydia, I could not resist the power of his Love and I fell instantly in love with the Holy Spirit...

 

[Jim B]

exposing evil behavoir is not sin nor wrong jim . nor is exposing those who lead in it either . Try and remember that .

But it must be balanced by loving your neighbor. You never do that. All you ever do is criticize others, including those whom Jesus regard as His own. Believers are His body, so when you criticize them you are criticizing Christ!