What is the one true Church?

[Illuminator]

But still the Tyndale Bible was known for its accuracy

 

[Brakelite]

That would be very incorrect....you need to look that up.
Back in that day the Catholic Church did not make the Bible available to the public, even Catholics! Of course it was in Latin and they could not read it anyway.....which was probably on purpose so they could preach one thing and no one would know the difference.

The Catholic did not produce a English translation to the Bible until long after the Protestant started printing theirs.

The scriptures had long been available to the Celtic church, originally in itala, not Latin, derived from the Syrian church, not Roman. Copies of that Bible were produced in their hundreds over the centuries by the Celtic mission schools of Iona, Lindisfarne, and Whitby. Those schools were the origin of missionaries who traveled back into Europe to evangelize those trapped in the state religion of the Papacy, and ignorant of the gospel and the freedoms the scriptures promised. The Celtic church was established as early as the 2nd century as a result of Gaelic people accepting Christ through the missionary efforts of Paul, they in turn sharing the gospel with their own people who had settled in northern Italy and southern France 300 years previous, and with whom they had regular contact and trade. The northern Italian church centered around Turin became known as the Waldensian church as they later resided in the valleys and mountains to escape Catholic crusades. The French branch of those same people became known as the Albigenses. Of course, because they refused to submit to Roman supremacy, they were branded as heretics and largely decimated by the state military arm of the Papacy.
The church of the East had their own issues. Muslim, Mithraism, Buddhism, Zoroastrian. The Catholic notion that they were the only Christian community around and we're the source and supplier and benefactor of all spiritual truth is a crazy ignorant idea which blatantly denies 2000 of miracle working power of God through humanity, and the promise of Jesus that hell would not overcome against His church. While Rome was falling into apostasy, Christ kept truth alive elsewhere and used the perfected churches of the wilderness to spread the gospel as far as Japan and China, a long long time before any Roman Catholic set as much as a little toe on Asian soil..

 

[Grailhunter]

View attachment 32493 View attachment 32494 View attachment 32495

LOL There were translations that used the Tyndale as reference....
But still the Bibles in that time period were not as accurate as more modern translations....the New American Standard Bible makes all of them and the modern Catholic Bible look like the work of amateurs.

 

[Illuminator]

The scriptures had long been available to the Celtic church, originally in itala, not Latin, derived from the Syrian church, not Roman. Copies of that Bible were produced in their hundreds over the centuries by the Celtic mission schools of Iona, Lindisfarne, and Whitby. Those schools were the origin of missionaries who traveled back into Europe to evangelize those trapped in the state religion of the Papacy, and ignorant of the gospel and the freedoms the scriptures promised. The Celtic church was established as early as the 2nd century as a result of Gaelic people accepting Christ through the missionary efforts of Paul, they in turn sharing the gospel with their own people who had settled in northern Italy and southern France 300 years previous, and with whom they had regular contact and trade. The northern Italian church centered around Turin became known as the Waldensian church as they later resided in the valleys and mountains to escape Catholic crusades. The French branch of those same people became known as the Albigenses. Of course, because they refused to submit to Roman supremacy, they were branded as heretics and largely decimated by the state military arm of the Papacy.
The church of the East had their own issues. Muslim, Mithraism, Buddhism, Zoroastrian. The Catholic notion that they were the only Christian community around and we're the source and supplier and benefactor of all spiritual truth is a crazy ignorant idea which blatantly denies 2000 of miracle working power of God through humanity, and the promise of Jesus that hell would not overcome against His church. While Rome was falling into apostasy, Christ kept truth alive elsewhere and used the perfected churches of the wilderness to spread the gospel as far as Japan and China, a long long time before any Roman Catholic set as much as a little toe on Asian soil..

Pope sends blessings to Waldesian church synod​

Pope Francis sends a message to participants in the Waldesian church synod, and encourages Catholics and Waldesians to pursue the ecumenical path of full communion in Christ.
read more here

It was not until 1587, when there were 200,000 Christians in Japan, that an edict of persecution, or rather of prescription, was passed to the surprise of everyone, at the instigation of a bigoted bonze, Nichijoshonin, zealous for the religion of his race. Twenty-six residences and 140 churches were destroyed; the missionaries were condemned to exile, but were clever enough to hide or scatter. They never doubted the constancy of their converts; they assisted them in secret and in ten years there were 100,000 other converts in Japan.

We read of two martyrdoms, one at Takata, the other at Notsuhara; but very many Christians were dispossessed of their goods and reduced to poverty. The first bloody persecution dates from 1597. It is attributed to two causes:
(1) Four years earlier some Castilian religious had come from the Philippines and, in spite of the decisions of the Holy See, had joined themselves to the 130 Jesuits who, on account of the delicate situation created by the edict, were acting with great caution. In spite of every charitable advice given them, these men set to work in a very indiscreet manner, and violated the terms of the edict even in the capital itself;
(2) a Castilian vessel cast by the storm on the coast of Japan was confiscated under the laws then in vigor. Some artillery was found on board, and Japanese susceptibilities were further excited by the lying tales of the pilot, so that the idea went abroad that the Castilians were thinking of annexing the country. A list of all the Christians in Miyado and Osaka was made out, and on February 5, 1597, 26 Christians, among whom were 6 Franciscan missionaries, were crucified at Nagasaki.

Among the 20 native Christians there was one, a child of 13, and another of 12 years. “The astonishing fruit of the generous sacrifice of our 26 martyrs’ (wrote a Jesuit missionary)”is that the Christians, recent converts and those of maturer faith, have been confirmed in the faith and hope of eternal salvation; they have firmly resolved to lay down their lives for the name of Christ. The very pagans who assisted at the martyrdom were struck at seeing the joy of the blessed ones as they suffered on their crosses and the courage with which they met death”.

Japanese Martyrs

Martyrs, JAPANESE.—There is not in the whole history...

www.catholic.com

The only ones who fall for Brakelite's lies are those predisposed to hatred for the CC, most of them are probably elementary school drop-outs.

 

[MatthewG]

Apostles are those who spent time with Jesus, and also seem him, and his resurrection.

There are special qualities to them in their case.

God is the authority and he governs his people by the spirit by having a relationship with their Father who adopts them into the spiritual kingdom.

Paul and others who spent time with jesus and after resurrection.

EPHESIANS 5:27 – That He might present to Himself the church In all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

“And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mount where Jesus appointed them, and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver. And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, ‘Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth; having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them — to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days — till the full end of the age.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭16‬-‭20‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 28:16-20 And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mount where Jesus appointed them, and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver. And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, ‘Given | Young's Literal Translation 18

And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mount where Jesus appointed them, and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver. And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, ‘Given

bible.com

Seems like a mission was given

 

[Illuminator]

Paul and others who spent time with jesus and after resurrection.

EPHESIANS 5:27 – That He might present to Himself the church In all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

“And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mount where Jesus appointed them, and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver. And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, ‘Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth; having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them — to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days — till the full end of the age.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭16‬-‭20‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Matthew 28:16-20 And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mount where Jesus appointed them, and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver. And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, ‘Given | Young's Literal Translation 18

And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mount where Jesus appointed them, and having seen him, they bowed to him, but some did waver. And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, ‘Given

bible.com

Seems like a mission was given

How could 11 men, without planes and helicopters, on foot, reach "all the nations" ??? Either they disobeyed Jesus or they made it to the Aboriginals in New Zealand and the Arctic. So there must be some way to accomplish the seemingly impossible. That "some way" has to be of divine origin. There are 4 of them found in the Nicene Creed. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. If you think the Nicene Creed is wrong, we have to re-invent the wheel and explain the Incarnation.

 

[MatthewG]

They reached thier known world. (Land area), do you ever study any greek words defined as they are in englisg?

 

[MatthewG]

There are 4 of them found in the Nicene Creed. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. If you think the Nicene Creed is wrong, we have to re-invent the wheel and explain the Incarnation.


Created by flawed men and believing in that creed doesnt save you.

 

[Brakelite]

The only ones who fall for Brakelite's lies are those predisposed to hatred for the CC, most of them are probably elementary school drop-outs.

Charming as usual. Very weak response. I've read the history of the Jesuits in Japan. You didn't think I had? Martyrs you say? They died because they demonstrated the righteousness of Christ? Nuh bro. They died because they were cruel murderers who practiced the same spirit of inquisition their compatriots were carrying out in Spain and Portugal. If the manner of Christianity was that of Jesus, maybe they wouldn't have been thrown out, and the country closed to Christianity from that time on.
In the 8th century, Japan was virtually a province of China. Everything Japan had was originally Chinese. China at that time had a powerful Christian community, a monument of which was erected with the approval of the emperor and not discovered by the west until the 17th century.
The name of Adam singles out an unusual leader whose history is connected with the Church of the East in China. When he was director of the Assyrian Church in China, a memorial in marble was erected in that land in 781 to the praise of God for the glorious success of the apostolic church. From the time that it was excavated in 1625 it has stood as one of the most celebrated monuments of history. The events which led to its erection and the story told by its inscription reveal the early missionary endeavors which carried the gospel to the Far East, including at that time, Japan. When the Spirit of God moved upon the heart of Adam, director of the Assyrian Church in China, and his associates to erect this revealing witness, New Testament Christianity had for some time been shining brightly there. The fact that these missionaries possessed sufficient freedom to plant this remarkable memorial in the heart of the empire, when in Europe the father of Charlemagne was destroying the Celtic Church, shows a remarkable existence of religious liberty in the Orient. It furthermore discloses that the Church of the East was large and influential enough to execute so striking a project. To indicate how great a statesman Adam was and how strong he was in 781 in the circles of influence in the Chinese, Japanese, and Arabian Empires, let the following facts testify: He was a friend of the Chinese emperor who ordered the erection of the famous stone monument; of Duke Kuo-Tzu, mighty general and secretary of state, who defeated the dangerous Tibetan attack; of Dr. Issu, Assyrian clergyman, loaded with state honors for his brilliant work; of Kobo Daishi, greatest intellect in Japanese history; of Prajna, renowned Buddhist leader and Chinese teacher of Kobo Daishi; of Lu Yen, celebrated founder of the powerful Chinese religious sect known as the Pill of Immortality; of the Arabian court where Harun-al-Rashid, most mighty of the Arabian emperors, had just secured the services of an eminent Assyrian church educator to supervise Harun’s new imperial school system.
All of these remarkable events took place 1000 years before the Jesuits entered China and Japan to plant their detestable violent practices upon those people. Lies "illuminator"? Do some research and reading. Discover some real history outside of your narrow Rome tinted spectacles.

 

[Grailhunter]

Waldensian teachings came into conflict with the Catholic Church and by 1215 the Waldensians were declared heretical, not because they preached apostolic poverty, which the Franciscans also preached, but because they were not willing to recognize the prerogatives of local bishops over the content of their preaching, nor to recognize standards about who was fit to preach. Pope Innocent III offered the Waldensians the chance to return to the Church, and many did, taking the name "Poor Catholics".[4] Many did not, and were subjected to intense persecution and were confronted with organised and general discrimination in the following centuries. In the 16th century, the Waldensians were absorbed into the Protestant movement, under the influence of early Swiss reformer Heinrich Bullinger.

 

[Augustin56]

But still the Tyndale Bible was known for its accuracy....More so than the Catholic Bible.....the Clementine Vulgate which was written in Latin and Christians could not read it and was part the sources for the King James Version which is one of reasons it is full of errors.

The Tyndale Bible was full of errors. Tyndale was a Catholic priest who was, at best, a very mediocre scholar, with a lot of unorthodox viewpoints and prejudices. Even King Henry VIII, who caused the English to leave the Catholic Church and start the Anglican denomination in order to divorce and remarry, condemned the Tyndale Bible. In 1543, Henry VIII decreed “all manner of books of the Old and New Testament in English, being of the crafty, false, and untrue translation of Tyndale . . . shall be clearly and utterly abolished, extinguished, and forbidden to be kept or used in this realm.”

Small sidenote: A knowledge of history would be helpful to you, I believe. During the Middle Ages, the language of literature and business was Latin, not the vernacular (such as English, French, etc.). Similary, before that it was Greek. And even then, the vast, vast majority of humanity was illiterate until long after the Industrial Revolution. Most people were manual laborers with no need to read until then.

 

[Augustin56]

Apostles are those who spent time with Jesus, and also seem him, and his resurrection.

There are special qualities to them in their case.

God is the authority and he governs his people by the spirit by having a relationship with their Father who adopts them into the spiritual kingdom.

And yet, God (in the person of Jesus Christ), delegated His heavenly authority to the Apostles. The Apostles, likewise, delegated this authority to their successors, the bishops, who have done likewise down through the ages for 2000 years now. Authority is not taken. It is given.

Look at the Gospel of John 20:19-23, which says,

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again,l “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Note what is going on in this scene. Jesus appears to the Apostles in the upper room. He identifies Himself. Then, He gave them His peace and told them "As the Father has sent me, so I send you." How did the Father send Jesus? With all heavenly authority, including the authority to forgive sins!

Then, Jesus breathed on the Apostles! Only twice in all Scripture does God breathe on man. Once in Genesis when He breathed life into Adam, and once here! So, something really important is going on here, yes?

Then, Jesus tells the Apostles, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” Jesus, Who is God, delegated His authority to forgive sins! That's why Catholics have the Sacrament of Confession. Priests cannot read minds, so the sinner must "confess" his sins to the priest, who with the authority delegated him from Christ, can forgive those sins.

 

[Grailhunter]

Small sidenote: A knowledge of history would be helpful to you, I believe. During the Middle Ages, the language of literature and business was Latin, not the vernacular (such as English, French, etc.). Similary, before that it was Greek. And even then, the vast, vast majority of humanity was illiterate until long after the Industrial Revolution. Most people were manual laborers with no need to read until then.

You funny. I am educated in five countries on theology and history.....I am sure I have forgotten more than you know. During the Middle Ages the language that were used depended on where you were at.

So get your note pad so I can take you to school. Pay attention, there will be test. Nothing changes in languages like a switch, and the switch will occur for spoken languages as opposed to written languages at different times. But far as literature and documentation Latin began to fall out of use in the 5th century. Historians have since stated that Latin really became a dead language around the 8th century +-. This is in line with the diminishing Roman Empire where few people could actually read, and the English, Italian, French and Spanish spoken language was rapidly evolving. The Holy Roman Empire was on the push for French.

Old English was evolving out of Anglo-Saxon Britain from around 450. Middle English dates from 1150 and then to Modern English which appears to be an on going process. Old English was very popular and was adopted by Britain after the 5th century. It continued to increase in use but still you have to remember written language versus spoken language, common language versus the language used by aristocrats, and languages used by trades. Italy was a different matter, Italians did not like English and they are still trying to outlaw it today.

But the bottom line, Latin fell out of popularity shortly after the 5th century. The Church kept there Bibles in Latin so they could preach what they wished! LOL That is what the Protestants like to say, but it is not that simple. Definitely the Catholics have their own interpretation of the scriptures but more that, because of the way the Bible was written there can be a lot of different interpretations as proven by the thousands of Protestant denominations. The Catholic use to say that the Protestants would never figure out the Bible....and they have not. But the Catholic did not get it right in word or spirit in the first place.

In the time of the reform the world was translating the scriptures in different areas and languages....and the church was playing a game of Whack A Mole! One translation would pop up and they would hit it over the head and soon as they got that one took care of another one would pop up. And then the Gutenberg Printing Press was invented around 1436 and it was game over! It was not like the Pope picked up a sword and jumped on a horse and chased all these people down....the Church used their power over secular authorities to make translations illegal, to make printing them illegal, and imprison and executing those that did.

For sure and certain the Catholic Church was violently opposed to anyone translating the scriptures or printing Bibles. They even prohibited Catholics from having Bibles. This is documented in history....In 1199, Pope Innocent III, writing in a letter to the bishop of Metz, banned the reading the Bible in private meetings (which he labeled as occultis conventiculis, or "hidden assemblies"). LOL The Catholic Church eventually translated the New Testament and then later the Old Testament....

But eventually they had to translate there Latin Bible to English and offer it up and it was not long after that the English Catholic Bible began to appear in the hands of the people, but again it was not like overnight delivery.

Now anytime you want to butt heads on knowledge, education, or intelligence....bring it on....you will lose!

 

[Augustin56]

You funny. I am educated in five countries on theology and history.....I am sure I have forgotten more than you know. During the Middle Ages the language that were used depended on where you were at.

So get your note pad so I can take you to school. Pay attention, there will be test. Nothing changes in languages like a switch, and the switch will occur for spoken languages as opposed to written languages at different times. But far as literature and documentation Latin began to fall out of use in the 5th century. Historians have since stated that Latin really became a dead language around the 8th century +-. This is in line with the diminishing Roman Empire where few people could actually read, and the English, Italian, French and Spanish spoken language was rapidly evolving. The Holy Roman Empire was on the push for French.

Old English was evolving out of Anglo-Saxon Britain from around 450. Middle English dates from 1150 and then to Modern English which appears to be an on going process. Old English was very popular and was adopted by Britain after the 5th century. It continued to increase in use but still you have to remember written language versus spoken language, common language versus the language used by aristocrats, and languages used by trades. Italy was a different matter, Italians did not like English and they are still trying to outlaw it today.

But the bottom line, Latin fell out of popularity shortly after the 5th century. The Church kept there Bibles in Latin so they could preach what they wished! LOL That is what the Protestants like to say, but it is not that simple. Definitely the Catholics have their own interpretation of the scriptures but more that, because of the way the Bible was written there can be a lot of different interpretations as proven by the thousands of Protestant denominations. The Catholic use to say that the Protestants would never figure out the Bible....and they have not. But the Catholic did not get it right in word or spirit in the first place.

In the time of the reform the world was translating the scriptures in different areas and languages....and the church was playing a game of Whack A Mole! One translation would pop up and they would hit it over the head and soon as they got that one took care of another one would pop up. And then the Gutenberg Printing Press was invented around 1436 and it was game over! It was not like the Pope picked up a sword and jumped on a horse and chased all these people down....the Church used their power over secular authorities to make translations illegal, to make printing them illegal, and imprison and executing those that did.

For sure and certain the Catholic Church was violently opposed to anyone translating the scriptures or printing Bibles. They even prohibited Catholics from having Bibles. This is documented in history....In 1199, Pope Innocent III, writing in a letter to the bishop of Metz, banned the reading the Bible in private meetings (which he labeled as occultis conventiculis, or "hidden assemblies"). LOL The Catholic Church eventually translated the New Testament and then later the Old Testament....

But eventually they had to translate there Latin Bible to English and offer it up and it was not long after that the English Catholic Bible began to appear in the hands of the people, but again it was not like overnight delivery.

Now anytime you want to butt heads on knowledge, education, or intelligence....bring it on....you will lose!

It's not a contest. Lol. It is a search for truth. You cannot deny that only a tiny percentage of the population was literate at all during these times. And, Latin was the common language of literature and commerce, in order to save people the trouble of learning several different languages. Before Latin, it was Greek. Today, believe it or not, it's English. If you are an international pilot, you have to know enough English to communicate with the tower in different countries.

The Catholic Church is the first one to have translated the Bible into vernacular language. But they had the responsibility to assure that translations were accurate, hence, not just anyone was allowed to do so.


Just curious, but where do you think the New Testament came from? I claim it was written by the first members of the Church founded by Christ . But it wasn't declared Scripture until the late 4th century by the Councils of Hippo (393 Ad) and Carthage (397 AD). They went through over 300 documents, books, letters, etc., Before coming up with the 27 we now call the New Testament. It is on the God-given authority that God gave His Church and the guidance of the Holy Spirit that we have the Bible today. Not due to someone who appeared on the scene in the 16th century after the Protestant Reformation.

 

[Grailhunter]

It's not a contest. Lol. It is a search for truth. You cannot deny that only a tiny percentage of the population was literate at all during these times. And, Latin was the common language of literature and commerce, in order to save people the trouble of learning several different languages. Before Latin, it was Greek. Today, believe it or not, it's English. If you are an international pilot, you have to know enough English to communicate with the tower in different countries.

First off, you are the one that started the discussion off in a negative tone.
Illiteracy is a lame excuse for not getting the Bible available to the public. There would be some in the groups that could read. What other purpose does a church have but to get the Word of God out.....the whole story about this involve a multitude of sins.

Save people the trouble! Poppycock! People were wanting the Bible. Like I said there are a lot of sins, corruption, and intrigue behind the reason the Catholic Church did not allow public access to the Bible.

The Protestants were running an underground network to get the Bible out to the people, the Catholics were fighting that. As soon as the Protestants got a hold of the Bible they started translating it in different languages and getting it out to the people. That is what honesty looks like in motion. No denomination is perfect and no Bible is perfect, but the intent speaks loads for the character of the denomination.

The Catholic Church is the first one to have translated the Bible into vernacular language. But they had the responsibility to assure that translations were accurate, hence, not just anyone was allowed to do so.

The Catholic Church could speak against what they wised.....but they did not have the right or authority to move against those that were trying to get the Bible out to the public.

Just curious, but where do you think the New Testament came from? I claim it was written by the first members of the Church founded by Christ . But it wasn't declared Scripture until the late 4th century by the Councils of Hippo (393 Ad) and Carthage (397 AD). They went through over 300 documents, books, letters, etc., Before coming up with the 27 we now call the New Testament. It is on the God-given authority that God gave His Church and the guidance of the Holy Spirit that we have the Bible today. Not due to someone who appeared on the scene in the 16th century after the Protestant Reformation.

I don't think I know were the New Testament came from, I know, and it did not come from the Catholic Church. By the time of the Ecumenical Councils the 27 books had already been but together.....all they did was agree with it.

God did not give authority to the Catholic Church. But wouldn't that have made things a lot more simple if Christ endorsed one of the denominations? The Protestants had the advantage of learning from the mistakes and sins of the Catholic Church. All of the denominations have the same authority and connection to Christ. But the Protestants do not have the blood on their hands that the Catholic Church does.
The Catholic Church through the Middle Ages demonstrated very little understanding of the Spirit of Christ or Christianity. It certainly does not deserve any elevated authority over any Christian denomination. I imagine that Christ was heart broke over the things the Catholic Church did in the Middle Ages, because they shamed Him and Christianity.

As it is now....best to put the past in the past....all churches on an even keel....the Protestants and the Catholics should forgive each other and move forward.....we have enemies and we need to unite against them.

 

[Marymog]

They weren't invisible. If they were, the Catholic Church wouldn't have been able to send crusades to destroy them. They were organized mission focused organizations, with their own bishops/overseas (we won't go there) and a head they called Catholicos. The papal church was only just then becoming an organized body...3rd century. They were still persecuted in Rome by the empire, and the Assyrian church by the Persians state religion, Mithraism. The Assyrian church spread from India across Persia as far as the Caspian Sea. All within 200 years. The Roman church was not the only shop in town.

Ok….They weren’t invisible. That means they left some trace of their existence. Based on your theory I will accept your version of Christian history. With that said:

Can you share any of the historical writings from these “mission focused“ “bishops/overseers“?

 

[Marymog]

You have not quoted one either.

As none of the letters are written to you…

Sure teachers exist but they have no spiritual authority.

Only Christ, and God helping to understand by the spirit, searching the deep things of God out.

That is a person journey; with no authority of anyone to dominate you; having the only true source of Authority being that of God, our Father.

Sure earthly, supervisors, moderators, judges, executives, courts, all still exist but are not on comparsion to God himself, though you can see pictures and types through people are sentenced to go to jail for their crimes.

Lol….OK!!! That means you are not familiar with the NT passages that talk about the men that rule over your spiritual life and that we are to obey them…


thank you for your time

 

[MatthewG]

Lol….OK!!! That means you are not familiar with the NT passages that talk about the men that rule over your spiritual life and that we are to obey them…


thank you for your time

I am sorry you are gonna have to quote where that is from and whom it was written to.

While I respect my elders and what not. I do not have to submit to them if I choose not. It is not a rebellious thing it is called going against the grain of traditions of man, and submitting ones self to God.

I dk what you do personally but I know it is God I submit to. Not man.

So while it is not me who is familiar with the passages you are speaking about - it is lack of discernment in which one assumes one is being written to when they are not -- all the while there are spiritual principles laid out through out the narrative.

Thank you also for your time.

 

[MatthewG]

1 Peter 5:5
5 In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”

Ill do that for you, a letter written from Peter to Jewish people, who were scattered aboard.




You also have Paul writing saying -

1 Timothy 4:12 Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity.

This was a letter written to Paul to Timothy.

So what is it? Do I have to submit to what people decide I need to believe, or make me believe? Or am I at least entitled to my God given life, to seek and search for truth despite what people wanna force me to believe, all while in the while respecting others in the spirit and allowing them believe what they will?

Totally freebased choice if you ask me.

 

[Illuminator]

Apostles are those who spent time with Jesus, and also seem him, and his resurrection.

There are special qualities to them in their case.

That is not contested. The Twelve had a special charism slightly different from their successors. Their words were/are just as inspired as the written word. Their words are preserved in apostolic succession, which you reject.

God is the authority and he governs his people by the spirit by having a relationship with their Father who adopts them into the spiritual kingdom.

You have no bishops and probably no pastor. The only "people" you are talking about is yourself, a pope in a church of one.