What is the one true Church?

[Grailhunter]

Most of the posts in this forum by Catholics are DEFENSIVE. We have the same right as anybody else to defend and explain against a tidal wave of misrepresentations and lies.

When your religion demands that you consider truth lies....time to find another religion......The Catholic Church is well known for telling people what to believe....one of the reasons they were against people having Bibles..

 

[Grailhunter]

But you offer no scholarly source for this LIE.

You are a Liar! You are a Liar! You are Liar! Is that all you got....really!
No scholarly source! It is history! Go look it up! Or are you wanting Catholic propaganda?

 

[Grailhunter]

But you cowardly avoid giving any source for these lies.

You are a cowardly liar! You are a cowardly liar! You are a cowardly Liar! You are so rude calling people names with every post, who can take you seriously or even put up with.......talking about Christianity without a speck of Christian spirit.

So what was the real reason William Tyndale was condemned? Was translating the Bible into English actually illegal? The answer is no. The law that was passed in 1408 was in reaction to another infamous translator, John Wycliff. Wycliff had produced a translation of the Bible that was corrupt and full of heresy. It was not an accurate rendering of sacred Scripture.

The Catholic had no right to call other beliefs heresy or forbid other translations of the Bible or define them as illegal, or move against the people that work at translating the scriptures.....You need to work at cleaning up your own beliefs.....and learning the Christian spirit.

Finding no support for his translation from his bishop, he left England and came to Worms, where he fell under the influence of Martin Luther. There in 1525 he produced a translation of the New Testament that was swarming with textual corruption. He willfully mistranslated entire passages of Sacred Scripture in order to condemn orthodox Catholic doctrine and support the new Lutheran ideas. The Bishop of London claimed that he could count over 2,000 errors in the volume (and this was just the New Testament).

Well the Catholic Bible has never been perfect either....The King James Version has a lot of errors in it....but I would say that it is wrong to kill people over it.

 

[Augustin56]

When your religion demands that you consider truth lies....time to find another religion......The Catholic Church is well known for telling people what to believe....one of the reasons they were against people having Bibles..

The Catholic Church was never against people having Bibles...unless the Bibles had heretical translations (like the Wycliff Bible). It was the Catholic Church who hand-copied the Bibles at great expense throughout the centuries after the Catholic Church decided which books belonged in the New Testament and which of the two versions of the Old Testament belonged in the Bible. Until the printing press, all bibles were hand-written, on velum. Velum is made from the stomachs of cows or sheep and an entire herd was required to make one Bible. Hence, Bibles were very expensive. So, the Catholic Church would put a Bible in many of its churches, chained down to discourage someone stealing it, since it was so expensive.

But it's only been in the last hundred years or so that the world has had any interest in universal literacy. Before that, only a tiny percentage of the world could read or write. Christ didn't create a Bible-reading, self-interpreting method of spreading His truths. He created a (one) Church.

The Catholic Church, as commanded by Christ, tells people what to believe, because it has received the entire deposit of Divine Revelation from Christ. Christ commanded His church to tell people what to believe. He never said, "Well, find a Bible and read it, and whatever you think it means, I'll back it up as truth."

Why are there so many (thousands?) of man-made, Protestant denominations, all believing something different, but reading the same Bible and claiming to be led by the same Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit the spirit of confusion and contradiction? Or could it be that these do-it-yourselfers have it wrong?

 

[Grailhunter]

So troublesome did Tyndale’s Bible prove to be that in 1543—after his break with Rome—Henry again decreed that “all manner of books of the Old and New Testament in English, being of the crafty, false, and untrue translation of Tyndale . . . shall be clearly and utterly abolished, extinguished, and forbidden to be kept or used in this realm.”

But still the Tyndale Bible was known for its accuracy....More so than the Catholic Bible.....the Clementine Vulgate which was written in Latin and Christians could not read it and was part the sources for the King James Version which is one of reasons it is full of errors.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ultimately, it was the secular authorities that proved to be the end for Tyndale. He was arrested and tried (and sentenced to die) in the court of the Emperor in 1536. His translation of the Bible was heretical because it contained heretical ideas—not because the act of translation was heretical in and of itself. In fact, the Catholic Church would produce a translation of the Bible into English a few years later (The Douay-Reims version, whose New Testament was released in 1582 and whose Old Testament was released in 1609).

Oh I know that the Bishops did not kill him.....the Roman Empire enforced the Church's will and the secular authority of Europe enforced the Churches will....as I have explained before....How many denominations fled Europe for the new world because of this collusion between church and state and it was clear they had no interest in having Catholic in the Colonies and when the the constitution was written mandating separation of church and state....it was with the Catholic Church in mind.

 

[Grailhunter]

That's called a source, something Grailhunter never does.

That is not true either I give plenty of sources just not Catholic propaganda. Every denomination is going to pooh pooh each others Bible.
Do you think the Protestants agree with the Catholic Bible? Should the Protestant kill people because they do not agree with Catholic Bible.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Catholic Church was never against people having Bibles...unless the Bibles had heretical translations

That would be very incorrect....you need to look that up.
Back in that day the Catholic Church did not make the Bible available to the public, even Catholics! Of course it was in Latin and they could not read it anyway.....which was probably on purpose so they could preach one thing and no one would know the difference.

The Catholic did not produce a English translation to the Bible until long after the Protestant started printing theirs.

 

[Marymog]

never said i had authority.

God is the only authority known beside earthly governing authority.

I just state what i believe no one has to accept that though.

@Marymog

I agree…..You have no authority.

You dodged the question about finding a single passage in the NT that says that other men, men of The Church, ruling over you…..

 

[MatthewG]

I agree…..You have no authority.

You dodged the question about finding a single passage in the NT that says that other men, men of The Church, ruling over you…..

You have not quoted one either.

As none of the letters are written to you…

Sure teachers exist but they have no spiritual authority.

Only Christ, and God helping to understand by the spirit, searching the deep things of God out.

That is a person journey; with no authority of anyone to dominate you; having the only true source of Authority being that of God, our Father.

Sure earthly, supervisors, moderators, judges, executives, courts, all still exist but are not on comparsion to God himself, though you can see pictures and types through people are sentenced to go to jail for their crimes.

 

[Illuminator]

You have not quoted one either.

As none of the letters are written to you…

Sure teachers exist but they have no spiritual authority.

Jesus gave HIS VERY OWN AUTHORITY to the Apostles.

Only Christ, and God helping to understand by the spirit, searching the deep things of God out.

2000 years of consistent teaching doesn't count???

That is a person journey; with no authority of anyone to dominate you; having the only true source of Authority being that of God, our Father.

That's what every heretic says.

Sure earthly, supervisors, moderators, judges, executives, courts, all still exist but are not on comparsion to God himself, though you can see pictures and types through people are sentenced to go to jail for their crimes.

Nobody is comparing human authority with God. What you fail to understand is that God gave authority to the Church to teach and baptize. You are left with no workable definition of "church" so you have to construct it to suit a rather cartoonish version of authority.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Read full chapter
What does "therefore" mean??? “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me therefore you have no authority to teach??? Strange logic indeed.

 

[MatthewG]

I dont believe anyone had authority but the apostles who are all dead and gone, and Jesus had the victory.


So for me…

Good luck to try and trick me as anyone has any authority concerning “spiritual things”,

What is true, or what is false needs to be tested by the spirit.

Hold on to what is good.

And Jesus having victory over all things is good enough for me personally.

 

[MatthewG]

And dont get it twisted as though i say


“Learning the bible is not good”

Cause it is… when you study it out seeking God in spirit and truth.

 

[Illuminator]

You are a cowardly liar! You are a cowardly liar! You are a cowardly Liar! You are so rude calling people names with every post, who can take you seriously or even put up with.......talking about Christianity without a speck of Christian spirit.

The reason you never post primary or secondary documentation supporting your lies is you can't find any. Just the same boring 'garden variety' anti-Catholic stupidity you can find on billions of web pages.

 

[Grailhunter]

The reason you never post primary or secondary documentation supporting your lies is you can't find any. Just the same boring 'garden variety' anti-Catholic nonsense you can find on billions of web pages.

I do post sources but if it isn't Catholic Propaganda it does not mean anything to you.
And liar liar pants on fire.....when I talking to you it is like talking to 6th grader with angry mental issues.
You really need to clean up your act.

 

[Grailhunter]

The reason you never post primary or secondary documentation supporting your lies is you can't find any. Just the same boring 'garden variety' anti-Catholic nonsense you can find on billions of web pages.

I am not anti-Catholic I represent the Church much better than you and BOL.

A religion of denial makes the congregation frustrated and defensive.
The Jehovah's Witnesses spend their day denying pretty much everything that is Christian. Been there done that....I have spent time as a youth in those kingdom halls with no windows because my aunt was a Jehovah's Witness and watched them huddle together and plot and plan how to deny the Bible and look at the language to find ways to twist the Gospel to try to prove that Yeshua is not a God or the Son of God and that there is no hell. By the time they are done they have no salvation in their religion. A man cannot save you.

In the military you are not sentenced to prison, you are awarded prison because you worked for it. The same for the Jehovah's Witnesses what they will get they deserve because they worked hard at.

The Catholics have the same type of thing going on, but not all of them. Plenty of good Catholics out there. But you guys live a religion of denial....denying all of reality to live a delusion, when it is not necessary and a waste of effort because it is history...it is reality the delusion only working in your head. It is not only what happened but it is the effects of what happened and it is well documented history. It is set in stone and your denial does not change anything or convince people that it did not happen.....

Wasted effort when you guys should be looking at the future not living in the past trying to deny something you cannot change in reality or in other people's minds.

 

[Brakelite]

This invisible church theory that you you teach; When and how did they decide what letters were to be in our NT Scripture?

Curious Mary

They weren't invisible. If they were, the Catholic Church wouldn't have been able to send crusades to destroy them. They were organized mission focused organizations, with their own bishops/overseas (we won't go there) and a head they called Catholicos. The papal church was only just then becoming an organized body...3rd century. They were still persecuted in Rome by the empire, and the Assyrian church by the Persians state religion, Mithraism. The Assyrian church spread from India across Persia as far as the Caspian Sea. All within 200 years. The Roman church was not the only shop in town.

 

[Illuminator]

I dont believe anyone had authority but the apostles who are all dead and gone, and Jesus had the victory.

Church Authority didn't die out with the death of the last Apostle. You've invented a new doctrine that is nowhere to be found in the Bible so it's just your opinion.

The historic Church is an extension of the Incarnation, so we have to re-invent the wheel, go back to square one, and define the Incarnation. So it wouldn't surprise me if you reject the Council of Nicae and others where challenging heresies were addressed. IMO, one cannot claim to be a Christian and reject the Nicene Creed. That would be a good place to start but that won't work because you say the councils had no authority, a purely circular argument.

 

[MatthewG]

Church Authority didn't die out with the death of the last Apostle. You've invented a new doctrine that is nowhere to be found in the Bible so it's just your opinion.

Apostles are those who spent time with Jesus, and also seem him, and his resurrection.

There are special qualities to them in their case.

God is the authority and he governs his people by the spirit by having a relationship with their Father who adopts them into the spiritual kingdom.

 

[MatthewG]

Apostles are those who spent time with Jesus, and also seem him, and his resurrection.

There are special qualities to them in their case.

God is the authority and he governs his people by the spirit by having a relationship with their Father who adopts them into the spiritual kingdom.

Whos other authority do you need in your life? Its not authority that you can deem people if they are his or not. You do not know if they ever expressed faith towards God or not.