Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Randy Kluth]

When we do commit an act of sin, it robs us of our joy-doesn't make us "un-born"
Although, for the most part, I concur with @Behold, in real time all believers are sinning, in word and thought, and as you rightly said, 1 John was written to believers.

I see a reverse form of teaching, we can now keep on sinning, at will, since all our sins have been dealt with, past, present and future, correct me if I wrong here.

Yes, the danger is libertinism, the disregard for willful sin in light of the fact we have, in the past, been completely redeemed and saved for eternity. This confusion between Eternal Salvation and our more immediate relationship with God in the present is an imposition upon Scriptural teaching. It is never taught that one who is truly Saved is sinless and does not need to regularly repair his or her relationship with God.

I believe Sin is a kind of "spiritual DNA." It is not physically inherited, like blue, green, or brown eyes. It is the overwhelming tendency towards rebelling against God's spoken word to us, a verbalized word to our conscience. We naturally resist what challenges the free will of our carnal nature. We want with our eyes. We want what our sexual urges long for.

But God's word directs us away from the things of this world so that we keep our eyes on God's word, and on Christ, our example, in heaven.

I'm a predestinarian, and believe that once we've adopted Christ in our heart, to the point of relinquishing our own ways to Christ's ways, I don't believe we can become "un-born." But I do believe we can choose to seriously backslide, by some temptation or undue influence.

In the end, those who were truly reborn, and have fallen away, will be brought to their senses, whether by a good brother calling us to that or by death itself. Just my view...

 

[Johann]

That’s interesting, I see it this way, when I act in my old self / flesh...especially if I throw a tantrum, I agree,it certainly affects us and can steal our peace....I don’t ask for forgiveness though, as I’m in Christ...just my thoughts...in fact I don’t even worry about it now, I just rest in God.

And NO it doesn’t make us un- Born...absolutely not, how can we be un- Born, when we have had that spiritual birth from God,...

Oh, OK, I would submit to you, based on your reasoning-we can go out sinning as we please-no need to ask forgiveness-the blood of Christ has us "covered"
--based on your view. Let's eat, drink and be merry and live as if there is no tomorrow, Christ have us under the Kaphar/Covering.
I mean, after all, we are "birthed"-we can swear, cuss, drink, waste our time, but hey, all good-we are "birthed"

Please, do me a favor, the discussion is between me and @Behold as we are reasoning together, eternity and my eternal destination is at stake here, no offense.

 

[Ritajanice]

I mean, after all, we are "birthed"-we can swear, cuss, drink, waste our time, but hey, all good-we are "birthed"

Oh, OK, I would submit to you, based on your reasoning-we can go out sinning as we please-no need to ask forgiveness-the blood of Christ has us "covered"
--based on your view. Let's eat, drink and be merry and live as if there is no tomorrow, Christ have us under the Kaphar/Covering.
I mean, after all, we are "birthed"-we can swear, cuss, drink, waste our time, but hey, all good-we are "birthed"

1 John 3:9​

ESVNo one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
NIVNo one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
NASBNo one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.
CSBEveryone who has been born of God does not sin, because his seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.
NLTThose who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.
KJVWhosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Please, do me a favor, the discussion is between me and @Behold as we are reasoning together, eternity and my eternal destination is at stake here, no offense.

Ok,I am sorry if I have upset you,Johann, it was not my intention.

No offence taken,Brother....God Bless You.

 

[Johann]

It is never taught that one who is truly Saved is sinless and does not need to regularly repair his or her relationship with God.

While I concur with your post, this, right here, Randy, and various other Scripture references suggests we can be potentially sinless, and in fact are with our union with Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit-but-in real time, ever met a "sinless Christian?"
Ever read the classic Pilgrims Progress-how many times did he "veer off" the beaten path?
I have a link on all types of sin in Hebrew, there are sins of omission, and we are all guilty of that. For me, and this is just my view, I need to confess, i.e., say the same thing, co-admit with God that I have missed the mark-not as a result of being in a state of willful sinning, but definitely acts of misconduct.

As here--
CONFESSION/PROFESSION

There are two forms of the same Greek root used for "confession" or "profession," homologeō/exomologo. The compound term is from homo, the same; legō, to speak; or ex, out of. The basic meaning is to say the same thing, to agree with. The Greek PREPOSITION, ex, added implies a public declaration.

The English translations of this word group are
praise
agree
declare (cf. Matt. 7:23)
profess
confess (cf. Heb. 4:14; 10:23)

This word group had two seemingly opposite usages
to praise (God)
to admit sin
These may have developed from mankind's sense of the holiness of God and its own sinfulness. To acknowledge one truth is to acknowledge both.

The NT usages of the word group are
to promise (cf. Matt. 14:7; Acts 7:17)
to agree or consent to something (cf. John 1:20; Luke 22:6; Acts 24:14; Heb. 11:13)
to praise (cf. Matt. 11:25; Luke 10:21; Rom. 14:11; 15:9; Heb. 13:15)
to assent to
a person (cf. Matt. 10:32; Luke 12:8; John 9:22; 12:42; Rom. 10:9; Phil. 2:11; 1 John 2:23; Rev. 3:5)
a truth (cf. Acts 23:8; 1 John 4:2)
to make a public declaration of (legal sense developed into religious affirmation, cf. Acts 24:14; 1 Tim. 6:13)
without admission of guilt (cf. 1 Tim. 6:12; Heb. 10:23)
with an admission of guilt (cf. Matt. 3:6; Acts 19:18; Heb. 4:14; James 5:16; 1 John 1:9)
I am astonished to hear we don't need to "confess" our missing the mark, in word, thought and deed, since we are "birthed" and why are we going to have to give an account before our Judge? And a holy, reverential fear of doing wrong is needful and chastisements, we need that, to STAY on this-

Isa 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

There shall be there a pure way, and it shall be called a holy way; and there shall not pass by there any unclean person, neither shall there be there an unclean way; but the dispersed shall walk on it, and they shall not go astray.

As always, a pleasure meeting you and getting to know you Randy.
Johann.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Confessing sin, to be re-forgiven, or to stay saved..... when God does not charge sin to the Born again.?
Really?

Think on these 2 verses.

Romans 4:8

2 Corinthians 5:19

Rom 4.8 Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.
2 Cor 5.19 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

While Israel, in the OT, navigated through their own personal failures, the High Priest year after year offered up an act of atonement, in obedience to God. The nation was covered, and could remain in covenant with God, even though they still had to regularly deal with their moral failures, lapses, and impurities.

It is no different in the NT, except that the atonement Christ offered up to God on our behalf brought us Eternal Life, even while we continue to work out problems concerning this Salvation.

It is, of course, important that we get Saved, to start with. This is a matter of putting on the nature of Christ, so that we naturally want to be like him, doing his works. But that is no guarantee we will continue to live by this nature. We can be lured aside, to look at temptations, just as Satan tempted Eve.

It is therefore also important to God to maintain our walk with God, to avoid turning aside to temptations, to avoid sin, which breaks up our fellowship with God and with fellow Christians. We need to always be on guard, to maintain the peace of Christ, so that we do not turn on one another like wolves, or turn away from God and become empty legalists, or observers of doctrine without love.

Jesus said that a tree is known by its fruit (Matt 7.17). Paul said that nobody speaking by the Holy Spirit can say, Jesus be cursed. (1 Cor 12.3). John said that no one born of God practices sin. His nature--if he lives by it--*cannot sin!*

Much about these seemingly confusing verses are caused by a lack of recognition that they are abbreviated statements, expecting us to fill in the blanks with honest assessments about our own lives. We should understand what John meant when he said those of us who have been born again "do not sin."

I memorized this verse, along with its entire context, back in 1972. And I had zero problem understanding what it meant until people later on came along and declared that it means we should become sinless, which I call Extreme Sanctification.

It doesn't mean we're sinless. It means that, assuming we have been born again, and choose to abide in that nature, we *will not sin!* This was not written to non-Christians who do not have the assurance of their Eternal Salvation. Rather, it was written to those who knew they had Eternal Salvation, who had to be reminded to "abide in their new nature."

John 15.9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love."

For sure, we don't have to beg again and again to be Saved! What we need to do now, according to Jesus, is to "abide in his love."

 

[Johann]

1 John 3:9​

ESVNo one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
NIVNo one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
NASBNo one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.
CSBEveryone who has been born of God does not sin, because his seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.
NLTThose who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.
KJVWhosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Exegete the Scriptures, I can also quote reams of Scripture.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe we abide in God’s Love, when we abide in him, it’s all about learning to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh....the flesh is all about selfish, prideful, arrogant , nasty, jealous,ME...profits us absolutely nothing....we die to self and live for Jesus...

Let the fruit of his Spirit shine out of our hearts/ spirit......die flesh, die!!

 

[Ritajanice]

Exegete the Scriptures, I can also quote reams of Scripture.

I already have, scroll up...here it is.

How do you read it-"practice" "cannot go on sinning?"

I read it that I am a born again child of God, my heart/ spirit has the indwelling Holy Spirit..therefore I can’t go on sinning,why, because I have been born again/ born of God, how can we sin if we have the indwelling Holy Spirit?

God doesn’t see my sin no more, I’ve been birthed in the Spirit...my sin is in Christ...he took all of my sin ,so that I could taste freedom....I am free,yup, free from any sin.

What is the point of confessing our sins, when we don’t have any,they have been forgiven,past,present and future?....my sin is all on Jesus and that’s where they are staying......it has taken over 30 yrs to understand this....my thoughts and belief...

How can the Holy Spirit, live in a sinners heart/ spirit?

I’m born again = no sin.

A born again = they have the righteousness of Christ....

Our heart/ spirit is in Christ....we are not our own...we are children of God..we are HIS...we are in God’s Son..
My opinion and belief.

My sin is hidden in Christ..

Romans 6:8-18​

​

New International Version​

​

​

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

@Behold can you explain/ interpret the above scripture please?

Slaves to Righteousness​

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin,which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

 

[Randy Kluth]

While I concur with your post, this, right here, Randy, and various other Scripture references suggests we can be potentially sinless, and in fact are with our union with Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit-but-in real time, ever met a "sinless Christian?"
Ever read the classic Pilgrims Progress-how many times did he "veer off" the beaten path?

Our family *loves* Pilgrim's Progress. My son uses the name "Christian" on Facebook for that reason! We constantly quote it, and have watched different versions of it on video a number of times. One of the best selling books in history--written while a guy was imprisoned, being persecuted for his spirituality and honesty.

What a great allegory of Christian living--yes, there are many diversions from the path. While I think John Bunyan was a believer in Predestination and Irresistible Grace, of sorts, others disagree. However, there really isn't much practical difference between Predestination and Arminianism in regard to the common need for those Saved to live as though Saved.

I have a link on all types of sin in Hebrew, there are sins of omission, and we are all guilty of that. For me, and this is just my view, I need to confess, i.e., say the same thing, co-admit with God that I have missed the mark-not as a result of being in a state of willful sinning, but definitely acts of misconduct.

As here--
CONFESSION/PROFESSION

There are two forms of the same Greek root used for "confession" or "profession," homologeō/exomologo. The compound term is from homo, the same; legō, to speak; or ex, out of. The basic meaning is to say the same thing, to agree with. The Greek PREPOSITION, ex, added implies a public declaration.

The English translations of this word group are
praise
agree
declare (cf. Matt. 7:23)
profess
confess (cf. Heb. 4:14; 10:23)

This word group had two seemingly opposite usages
to praise (God)
to admit sin
These may have developed from mankind's sense of the holiness of God and its own sinfulness. To acknowledge one truth is to acknowledge both.

The NT usages of the word group are
to promise (cf. Matt. 14:7; Acts 7:17)
to agree or consent to something (cf. John 1:20; Luke 22:6; Acts 24:14; Heb. 11:13)
to praise (cf. Matt. 11:25; Luke 10:21; Rom. 14:11; 15:9; Heb. 13:15)
to assent to
a person (cf. Matt. 10:32; Luke 12:8; John 9:22; 12:42; Rom. 10:9; Phil. 2:11; 1 John 2:23; Rev. 3:5)
a truth (cf. Acts 23:8; 1 John 4:2)
to make a public declaration of (legal sense developed into religious affirmation, cf. Acts 24:14; 1 Tim. 6:13)
without admission of guilt (cf. 1 Tim. 6:12; Heb. 10:23)
with an admission of guilt (cf. Matt. 3:6; Acts 19:18; Heb. 4:14; James 5:16; 1 John 1:9)
I am astonished to hear we don't need to "confess" our missing the mark, in word, thought and deed, since we are "birthed" and why are we going to have to give an account before our Judge? And a holy, reverential fear of doing wrong is needful and chastisements, we need that, to STAY on this-

Isa 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

There shall be there a pure way, and it shall be called a holy way; and there shall not pass by there any unclean person, neither shall there be there an unclean way; but the dispersed shall walk on it, and they shall not go astray.

As always, a pleasure meeting you and getting to know you Randy.
Johann.

Oh my goodness--you are so much like my brother! He is all about the original languages and the text--way before forming doctrinal conclusions. And I am the opposite, and he's aware of that. I tend to formulate systematic theology based on a rudimentary and comparative view of Scriptures--a holistic view--together with personal experience. Between the two of us we have some great conversations, though not always particularly "friendly." But we love each other to death!

In a nutshell, there is a difference between walking in the law of Christ and walking by the nature of Christ. The Pharisees in Jesus' time proved that religious leaders could walk in the Law without having the substance. Similarly, Christians can walk by the Law of Christ apart from the substance.

So when I talk about "substance," I'm talking about "living like Christ," as John argued in 1 John 2. We are not genuinely born again Christians unless we have chosen to adopt not just observance of Law of Christ, but more, the observance of Christ's *nature.*

So this part is all about Salvation. But beyond that we are exhorted to live by that nature, since obviously, born again Christians have the choice to allow themselves to be distracted.

The Sin Nature in us is a nasty spiritual impetus within us inclining us to view God's word as distasteful, because it claims authority over our rebellious, independent will. But we can choose to both embrace the nature of Christ and the righteousness of Christ, which are related. One brings Salvation, and the other enables us to be consistent in that Salvation.

To live a righteous life is to abide in our Christian nature. It doesn't mean we are sinless, but only that we can live a life of victory over our tendency to rebel. It is not the same thing as choosing to sin such as in rejecting Christ as an unholy thing. To live a righteous life is to *regularly* reject our own inner rebellion. To live a sinful life is not just to have a Sin Inclination, but more, to indulge that Sin Inclination regularly.

 

[Johann]

I believe we abide in God’s Love, when we abide in him, it’s all about learning to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh....the flesh is all about selfish, prideful, arrogant , nasty, jealous,ME...profits us absolutely nothing....we die to self and live for Jesus...

Let the fruit of his Spirit shine out of our hearts/ spirit......die flesh, die!!

The concept of crucifying the flesh comes from the apostle Paul’s words in Galatians 5:24: “Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” In this verse, it’s clear that crucifying the flesh is not something done to the believer, but by the believer: “Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh.”
Crucified the flesh (tēn sarka estaurōsan). Definite event, first aorist active indicative of stauroō as in Gal_2:19 (mystical union with Christ). Paul uses sarx here in the same sense as in Gal_5:16, Gal_5:17, Gal_5:19, “the force in men that makes for evil” (Burton).
With (sun). “Together with,” emphasizing “the completeness of the extermination of this evil force” and the guarantee of victory over one’s passions and dispositions toward evil.


The “flesh” that must be crucified is the sin principle that exists in our fallen human nature. In this world we live in fleshly bodies, and the body, being weak (Mark 14:38), is the gateway to sin.

Our bodies, though not sinful in themselves, naturally crave comfort and pleasure, and they too often succumb to temptation, producing the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19–21). Sin entrenches itself in the flesh, which becomes dominated by iniquity of all kinds. It is the sinful passions and wayward deeds of the flesh that Christians must crucify.

In other places, Paul speaks of a crucifixion that happens to the believer through his or her union with Jesus Christ: “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me” (Galatians 2:20; see also Romans 6:6).

in Galatians 5:24, it is the believer who has taken action. Crucify the flesh describes a deliberate putting to death of the old sin nature.

Paul’s instruction was inspired by Jesus Christ Himself, who said, “If anyone wants to follow after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me” (Mark 8:34, CSB).

Take up the cross is a figure of speech closely related to crucify the flesh. Believers are to behave like a person carrying his own cross to the place of his execution. Paul follows the Lord’s words to their logical conclusion. Not only must believers pick up and carry their cross, but they must also make sure their death sentence gets carried out. Crucifying the flesh illustrates the putting to death of selfish, sinful desires.

Believers are to take their old sin nature and, figuratively speaking, nail it to the cross. We crucify the flesh through confession of sin—by turning our backs on the old way of life, by saying no to selfish and sinful passions, and by utterly renouncing the flesh: “Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God” (Romans 6:13, NLT).

In the ancient world, crucifixion was the vilest, most shameful form of death, reserved for the worst of criminals. Paul undoubtedly wanted his readers to understand that the flesh is not to be treated with respect, kindness, or even indifference. The carnal nature is so evil that it deserves nothing but the most dreadful of punishments. Crucifixion was also one of the most painful forms of execution. Believers should not expect to put to death the flesh without experiencing some pain and suffering.

The flesh and the spirit are in continual conflict with each other, so our daily calling as followers of Christ is to crucify the flesh: “For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live” (Romans 8:13; see also Romans 6:11). Because we have been delivered from sin and death to new life in Jesus Christ, we are to yield ourselves to God for His good purposes and “put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry” (Colossians 3:5).

To crucify the flesh is to obey the call to Christian discipleship. It means losing our life to find it in Him (Matthew 10:39). As we daily put to death the sinful nature, we begin to walk in victory over the flesh. Conquering the flesh is what Paul describes as walking in the Spirit: “So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh” (Galatians 5:16).

What does it mean to crucify the flesh (Galatians 5:24)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean to crucify the flesh? What is the meaning of Galatians 5:24?

www.gotquestions.org

Your favorite go to-do you believe in our initial justification and sanctification, the whole salvific plan of YHVH in Messiah and redemption given to us as a gift, having the down payment of the Holy Spirit?

Is sanctification progressive as well? Or a once of event, no room for progression?

 

[Ritajanice]

Your favorite go to-do you believe in our initial justification and sanctification, the whole salvific plan of YHVH in Messiah and redemption given to us as a gift, having the down payment of the Holy Spirit?

Is sanctification progressive as well? Or a once of event, no room for progression?

I can only understand through the Spirit, my belief, I am born again, birthed in the Spirit, a living supernatural birth, that only God can do....that’s it, I have been set free from eternal damnation, the Holy Spirit indwells me,I am in the world,but, I am not of the world.
I am in God’s Kingdom as a born again.
I am being made into the image of God’s Son Jesus, how, Through the power of the Holy Spirit who indwells me ,I know 100% I am a child of God.

My testimony and belief 100%

2 Corinthians 3:18 ►

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. New Living Translation So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.

 

[Johann]

Our family *loves* Pilgrim's Progress. My son uses the name "Christian" on Facebook for that reason! We constantly quote it, and have watched different versions of it on video a number of times. One of the best selling books in history--written while a guy was imprisoned, being persecuted for his spirituality and honesty.

What a great allegory of Christian living--yes, there are many diversions from the path. While I think John Bunyan was a believer in Predestination and Irresistible Grace, of sorts, others disagree. However, there really isn't much practical difference between Predestination and Arminianism in regard to the common need for those Saved to live as though Saved.

Oh my goodness--you are so much like my brother! He is all about the original languages and the text--way before forming doctrinal conclusions. And I am the opposite, and he's aware of that. I tend to formulate systematic theology based on a rudimentary and comparative view of Scriptures--a holistic view--together with personal experience. Between the two of us we have some great conversations, though not always particularly "friendly." But we love each other to death!

In a nutshell, there is a difference between walking in the law of Christ and walking by the nature of Christ. The Pharisees in Jesus' time proved that religious leaders could walk in the Law without having the substance. Similarly, Christians can walk by the Law of Christ apart from the substance.

So when I talk about "substance," I'm talking about "living like Christ," as John argued in 1 John 2. We are not genuinely born again Christians unless we have chosen to adopt not just observance of Law of Christ, but more, the observance of Christ's *nature.*

So this part is all about Salvation. But beyond that we are exhorted to live by that nature, since obviously, born again Christians have the choice to allow themselves to be distracted.

The Sin Nature in us is a nasty spiritual impetus within us inclining us to view God's word as distasteful, because it claims authority over our rebellious, independent will. But we can choose to both embrace the nature of Christ and the righteousness of Christ, which are related. One brings Salvation, and the other enables us to be consistent in that Salvation.

To live a righteous life is to abide in our Christian nature. It doesn't mean we are sinless, but only that we can live a life of victory over our tendency to rebel. It is not the same thing as choosing to sin such as in rejecting Christ as an unholy thing. To live a righteous life is to *regularly* reject our own inner rebellion. To live a sinful life is not just to have a Sin Inclination, but more, to indulge that Sin Inclination regularly.

Well said brother, nothing more I can add here, and you express yourself eloquently.
Shalom to you and family.
Johann.

 

[Ritajanice]

A.) "you are NOT under THE LAW, but under Grace".

"Christ has redeemed the born again from the CURSE of THE LAW".

And what is that curse?
The curse is........... that the LAW defines your carnal behavior as SIN, before God.

So, when the LAW can't do that ever again, , then what you do, can't be defined as a sin, as there is no Dominion of the LAW over you in place to define it.

The born again are "not UNDER the LAW...but UNDER Grace"

As we are under grace, we have been set free from the Law.

We are children of God/ born again, therefore under our Father in heavens grace, we belong to him,...also once we become born again...we are a child of God in spirit as he indwells our spirit, he is indirect contact with us, how, Through the Holy Spirit.

1 John 3:1
Verse Concepts
See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

Source: 20 Bible verses about Believers As Sons Of God

The children of God Also get chastised by their spiritual Father.....and it darn well hurts.
My thoughts and beliefs.

​

◄ Hebrews 12:6 ►

​

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.” New Living Translation For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.” English Standard Version For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” Berean Standard Bible For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises every son He receives.”

 

[Randy Kluth]

As we are under grace, we have been set free from the Law.

We are children of God/ born again, therefore under our Father in heavens grace, we belong to him,...also once we become born again...we are a child of God in spirit as he indwells our spirit, he is indirect contact with us, how, Through the Holy Spirit.

I'm not sure what your issue is, or even if you have an issue, but I don't think the idea of being "set free from the Law" has anything to do with being set free from God's moral Law. That is, Grace does not free us from the obligation to live by Christ's Righteousness.

When Paul speaks of our being set free from the demands of the Law he is talking about being set free from the Law in the holistic sense of being a system designed to give us our own faulty record of righteousness, as well as our own personal failure at achieving the hope of Eternal Life. The Law not only exposed Israel's short-comings, but it also disqualified them, in their record of sin, from receiving Eternal Life. The Law gave Israel Righteousness--however, this Righteousness, based on the record of Sinful Men, could not achieve Eternal Life.

Inasmuch as the Law did provide Righteousness, it did obtain blessings from God. When a better record of Righteousness was made available by Christ, the Law of Moses was nullified in favor of that. And Christ's Righteousness does obtain for us Eternal Life, along with the blessings of Righteousness.

The notion that we cannot or do not choose for a Righteousness that leads to Salvation is false. When we choose to follow Christ we choose to follow his Righteousness, as well. The Apostle John condemns those who claim to follow Christ and yet do not follow his Righteousness at the same time. "Behold" has not admitted this, and has not responded to this biblical passage:

1 John 2. 3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.... 29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

Don't be misled by people who say that "doing Righteousness" is "Law," and cannot Save. In fact, choosing Christ's Righteousness *is* Salvation! It, of course, is not just following the Law of Christ, but more, following Christ himself. When we choose to follow Christ we are following laws that represent his Righteousness. That "Law" is, as you likely know, the Law of Love.

What Saves us is not just our choice to follow Christ but also what Christ brings to us through his Righteousness, which is his Atonement for Sin. If you don't believe it, just keep it in mind. This is not Self-Righteousness, but *Christ's* Righteousness! It is our choice for Christ and his Righteousness that Saves us. It is the Atonement that comes with his Righteousness that Saves us. Otherwise, we have what is called Antinomianism.

 

[Ritajanice]

What Saves us is not just our choice to follow Christ but also what Christ brings to us through his Righteousness,

What saves us from spiritual death, is to be birthed in the Spirit, you must be born again to see the Kingdom of God.

As soon as we are birthed we are saved from eternal damnation, we have been regenerated, brought Alive in Christ, through the rebirth.

I have tried to explain this spiritual birth many times, the spiritual birth is “ Alive”...God’s word is Alive,...and his word has to penetrate the heart of the person he is birthing in the Spirit, you can’t hear God Through your own human intellect...it is an act ,that only God can do, there is much scripture on this, but again, the Living word must penetrate our hearts, then we know it’s from God.

The Spirit of God testifies with our spirit that we are his child, in other words his living word once again as I’ve already explained , must and does speak to your spirit through his Spirit....

There is absolutely nothing hard in understanding when one is born from above...I can also only understand when I believe the Spirit of God speaks to my spirit through his living word.

The flesh and human intellect doesn’t speak to me, as it profits nothing,....as long as I know I am born again 100% the rest of what I need to understand, will come from the Spirit and it will come in God’s timing......his timing is perfect as his word will and does penetrate his child’s heart/spirit, so that they understand it’s Gods word and not the flesh from man...who unfortunately, some think they have all the answers, we don’t ,onlyGod has the answers.
The relationship between God and his child is Alive..we have a personal intimate relationship with God, how, Through the Holy Spirit who indwells the heart/ spirit of his child....he has taken up permanent residence in our heart/spirit.
I am in the righteousness of Christ..I’m not in my own righteousness......it’s also recognising or discerning when one speaks in the Spirit or the flesh, God has shown me when I speak in the flesh, I ignore fleshy remarks, as they are from the self, pride,ego,etc,etc...there is no profit in arguing in the flesh with a person...

I also did not choose God to birth me in the Spirit, he chose to birth me, by his mercy, grace and pure Love, in Jesus Name,Amen.


My thoughts and beliefs...

I can only understand what I believe the Spirit is speaking to me....there is much of your post I don’t understand,.....in other words it’s not speaking to my spirit....no worries, as I say ,God’s timing is perfect in understanding and he may bring me back to your post,when the timing is right, if that makes sense...
Thank you for taking the time to try and explain to me, I appreciate that...I know you are only trying to help.
I can only understand the word of God..I understand this scripture perfectly...my belief...

John 3:6-8​

​

New International Version​

​

​

6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[a] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[b] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[c

Hebrews 4:12​

​

New International Version​

​

​

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

 

[Ritajanice]

God’s Love and Ours​

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved usand sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

 

[Johann]

The Law not only exposed Israel's short-comings, but it also disqualified them, in their record of sin, from receiving Eternal Life. The Law gave Israel Righteousness--however, this Righteousness, based on the record of Sinful Men, could not achieve Eternal Life.

PAUL'S VIEWS OF THE MOSAIC LAW

Paul follows Jesus' understanding of the relationship between the Old Covenant and His New Covenant This is clearly seen in
Matthew 5:17-19, affirmation of the inspiration and eternality of OT revelation.
Matthew 5:21-48, affirmation of the superiority of Jesus' words as ultimate revelation from YHWH. He clarifies and reinterprets both
the law of Moses, vv. 31-32
the Oral Traditions of the Jews
He also intensifies the prohibitions from the act to the thought

The Mosaic Law is good and is from God (cf. Matt. 5:17-19; Rom. 7:12,16). Galatians 3 is a major NT text on how the OT functions in the New Age.
It is not the way to righteousness and acceptance by God (it can even be a curse, cf. Gal. 3:13).
It is still God's will for believers because it is God's self-revelation (cf. Matt. 5:17-19, Paul often quotes the OT to convict and/or encourage believers). It functions in sanctification, not justification!
Believers are informed by the OT (cf. Rom. 4:23-24; 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:6,11), but not saved by the OT (cf. Acts 15; Romans 4; Galatians 3; the book of Hebrews).
It functions in the New Covenant to:
show sinfulness (cf. Gal. 3:15-29)
guide redeemed mankind in society
inform Christian ethical decisions
 It is this theological spectrum related to the Law, from cursing (cf. Gal. 3:10-13) and passing away to blessing and permanency that causes the problem in trying to understand Paul's view of the Mosaic Law. In A Man in Christ, James Stewart shows Paul's paradoxical thinking and writing:

 "You would normally expect a man who was setting himself to construct a system of thought and doctrine to fix as rigidly as possible the meanings of the terms he employed. You would expect him to aim at precision in the phraseology of his leading ideas. You would demand that a word, once used by your writer in a particular sense, should bear that sense throughout. But to look for this from Paul is to be disappointed. Much of his phraseology is fluid, not rigid. . . 'The law is holy' he writes, 'I delight in the law of God after the inward man' (cf. Rom. 7:12,22) but it is clearly another aspect of nomos that makes him say elsewhere, 'Christ had redeemed us from the curse of the law' (cf. Gal. 3:13)" (p. 26).

From 2 Cor. 3:7-11, Paul discusses Exod. 34:23-35. In v. 13 he compares the OT vs. NT using Moses' veil
Paul makes several comparisons between Moses' covenant and Jesus' covenant.
the Lord of Exodus = the Spirit of Jesus
only Moses could approach God intimately versus all believers in Christ can approach God
Moses' glory faded versus Jesus' glory never fades
Moses' followers cannot see Christ in the OT versus Jesus' followers through the Spirit can correctly interpret the OT in light of Christ
Moses brought the bondage of performance versus Christ brings the freedom of grace
the letter of the Mosaic Law brings death versus the Spirit of the New Covenant brings life, life eternal, life abundant
Moses' covenant was unable to produce a righteous people versus Jesus' covenant does produce righteous people (both objectively in justification and subjectively in sanctification),

From the theological outline of the book of Hebrews, one can clearly see the superiority of the NT over the OT, especially3:1-4:13; 4:4-5:10
Heb. 1:1-3
Heb. 1:4-2:18
Heb. 3:1-4:13;
4:14-5:10
Heb. 6:13-7:28
Heb. 5:11-6:12
Heb. 8:1-10:18
Heb. 10:19-13:25  Superiority of the Son over the prophets
 Superiority of the Son over the angels
 Superiority of the Son over the Mosaic Covenant

 Superiority of the Son over the Aaronic Priesthood
 Superiority of the believing Jews over the unbelieving Jews
 Superiority of the Son over the procedures of the Mosaic Covenant
 Superiority of the Son advocated and revealed in believers
For me, there are several main texts that drive my understanding of the relationship between the two Covenants of YHWH (listed at II. C.). Thank God for His self-revelation through Abraham and his descendants; Jesus has fulfilled and over flowed this revelation. He has opened the door for all people. Now we must view the OT through the lens of Jesus' ultimate revelation. The NT is not about Israel, but about Jesus! Neither Jesus or any Apostles reaffirm an OT national promise to Israel!

THE MOSAIC LAW AND THE CHRISTIAN

The Mosaic Law is inspired Scripture and is eternal (cf. Matt. 5:17-19).
The Law as a way of salvation is void and has always been, but mankind had to see that his/her own efforts were futile (cf. Matt. 5:20, 48; Rom. 7:7-12; Gal. 3:1ff; James 2:10).
The gospel of Christ is the only way to God (cf. John 14:6; Rom. 3:21; Gal. 2:15-21; Heb. 8:12).
The Old Testament is still helpful to believers as God's will for humans in society (esp. "The Ten Words"), but not as the way of salvation (i.e., it functions in sanctification but not in justification). The cultus of Israel (sacrificial system, holy days, civic and religious laws) has passed away but God still speaks through the OT. The stipulations mentioned in Acts 15:20 refer only to fellowship issues, not to salvation.
The crucial texts about the OT and its relationship to NT believers are
the Jerusalem Council of Acts 15
the theological summary of the gospel message in Galatians 3
the comparison of the Mosaic Covenant (OT) with the New Covenant of Jesus (NT) in the book of Hebrews.
a. Heb. 1:1-3
b. Heb. 1:4-2:18
c. Heb. 3:1-4:13; 4:14-5:10
d. Heb. 6:13-7:28
e. Heb. 5:11-6:12
f.  Heb. 8:1-10:18
g. Heb. 10:19-13:25   Superiority of the Son over the prophets
  Superiority of the Son over the angels
  Superiority of the Son over the Mosaic Covenant
  Superiority of the Son over the Aaronic Priesthood
  Superiority of the believing Jews over the unbelieving Jews
  Superiority of the Son over the procedures of the Mosaic Covenant
  Superiority of the Son advocated and revealed in believers

SPECIAL TOPIC: THE MOSAIC LAW AND THE CHRISTIAN

Mosaic Law -- Special Topic by Dr. Bob Utley, professor of hermeneutics (retired).

www.freebiblecommentary.org

 

[Behold]

Oh, OK, I would submit to you, based on your reasoning-we can go out sinning as we please-

Christianity is very interesting.

God provided the forgiveness, the righteousness, the power to do it, and the completion of it.

Philippians 1:6

We receive all this, as "yet a sinner"....... We went to the Cross, a dirty rotten unbeliever, .. with a lifetime of sin in our past, and probably that very day we had sinned , and God took all that sin, and sacrificed Jesus for it all, and then gives to us, = the very HOLY LIFE that Jesus lives, as if we have lived it.

This is to become "a new creation IN Christ".... born again.

That is the "Divine Exchange", were we go to God for forgiveness, through Christ, and God gives us righteousness, eternal pardon of sin, and He comes to live in us.

"temple of the Holy Spirit".

Its all God's provision as "the GIFT of Salvation" and "The GIFT of Righteousness".
Salvation is God's to Give, and what we do is receive it....and we have it, its "imputed".
We dont go out the next day trying to DO IT....We go out the next day, having been "made righteous".
The Christian, starts finished.

Jesus said..."its is FINISHED"....>He didn't say...."i started it and now you go and finish Salvation".
So, when we go to God in Faith, we leave Holy, righteous, and eternally "in Christ".

THEN, we learn how to BELIEVE, which is the "renewed mind".. which means we begin to SEE ourselves as God sees us, at all times.
We learn how to UNDERSTAND what God has done for us, as the Blood Atonement = the New Covenant.
We get our heart established in GRACE.
Hebrews 13:9
This coming into the entire revelation regarding what it means to have become "the righteousness of GOD, In Christ'.......is to "work out your salvation".
Most do not.
Most get stuck in trying to perform to try to stay saved, or trying to confess to try to stay forgiven.
They are trying to DO, what God has already provided. = as a "Gift"

We work out our Salvation.....we dont try to keep it, or finish it. We learn how to EXIST in the renewed mind, that is to understand that we are not of this earth., anymore. We are in Fact "in Christ" "seated in heavenly places". "one with God.

We are in another Kingdom, and that Kingdom of God is a different rulebook, that does not have Moses Law in it, or the 10 Commandments.
As before they defined us as a sinner, but Now Christ's Cross has RE-Defined us as a Kingdom of God .. Son/Daughter.

Reader...All this im showing you is SPIRITUAL Reality, and it has to be revealed to you inner man as revelation.

God's Grace has allowed us to be a part of God, Himself. So, from this revelation, we begin to "present our bodies as a living sacrifice" by God's own power inside us to do it, which is not us trying to do it.
Walking in the Spirit, is not done with your feet and legs, reader.
It by us realizing that what God wants us to do, He does through us, as "i can do all things Through Christ".

We rest in God's Grace and God works through us.

Not "i can do all things by trying to be good"
Not, "i can do all things by will power"

As those are FLESH, (self effort) and disconnect you from Jesus's Power... = "apart from me you can do nothing".

 

[Behold]

As we are under grace, we have been set free from the Law.

We are children of God/ born again, therefore under our Father in heavens grace, we belong to him,...also once we become born again...we are a child of God in spirit as he indwells our spirit, he is indirect contact with us, how, Through the Holy Spirit.

Yes,

The law has no dominion in the Kingdom of God, as it does not exist there.
The law and commandment are made for unbelievers on This earth....to show them they are hell bound sinners needing to be forgiven.
We, the born again, exist in the Kingdom of God, In Christ, One with God", "not under the Law, but under Grace".