How Many Christians Believe When We DIE, Our Human Spirit Goes Instantly To HEAVEN?

[Reggie Belafonte]

Did Christ go to the cross for nothing?

Yes ? if one does not understand him ! How would one know if one did not know him ?
But one who knows him knows that Jesus did not go for nothing in fact !

One has to understand the reason Jesus did take that path. It was for all ? but one has to be able to pick it up to understand ? but it's their for all in fact but if one does not value the gift ?

 

[VCO]

Yes ? if one does not understand him ! How would one know if one did not know him ?
But one who knows him knows that Jesus did not go for nothing in fact !

One has to understand the reason Jesus did take that path. It was for all ? but one has to be able to pick it up to understand ? but it's their for all in fact but if one does not value the gift ?

TRUST HIM, HE WILL GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING LATER.

Here is Kris Kristofferson's testimony of how he was Born Again.

I remember When HE gave me Salvation as a GIFT from HIM.

I didn't Know what had Just happened inside me, BUT I HAD TOTAL TRUST IN HIM.

I had this tremendous Guilt for my whole life style, as wave, after wave Washed Over Me.

Crying more that any baby Cries, and begging HIM for Forgiveness,

when that Peace Came, it washed all that Guilt away. I Prayed a Prayer that the Holy Spirit gave to Me,

Lord Forgive ME, Please Forgive ME, If you have a purpose for my life, you can have it. But you are going to have to come into my heart and RUN IT, because I cannot do it, I AM MAKING A TOTAL MESS OF MY LIFE.

I never heard such a prayer in any of the Churches that I had ever been to. Later on it came to me that was a prayer of total Surrender to HIM. And I will never want to take it back. HE gave me LOVE FOR HIM, Happiness, and Peace with HIM in Control.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

He May have done both, it really does not say. In Bible times, their was a tradition after winning the War, of having a Victory Parade in that Country. He may have had a Victory Parade close to Hades, but like I said, it really does not say. The word Touch can also be translated Clinging. Than is why the NASB Translates it this way:

John 20:17 (NASB)
17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

I assume that HE had to go the Mercy Seat in Heaven, immediately after that conversation, to the Father, and to sprinkle the blood on the Mercy Seat, and pour the rest of the blood out on the horns, and base of the Altar in Heaven. SO IF there was a Victory parade, it had to be during the three days HIS Body was dead.

NOW you quoted several FALSE BELIEFS in a ROW.

NO. You could not come close to Paying for your sin if you lived 10,000 years.
NO. The Only Payment PRICE is a Holy Blood Sacrifice.
NO. Every Human Being totally deserves to go to Hell.
NO. NO ONE DESERVES TO GO TO HEAVEN.
NO. You must be Catholic, there is NO LEVEL LIKE YOU THINK. The Third Heaven, is the Eternal Dwelling Place of GOD, PERIOD.
... Second heaven in the Bible is the Stars of Heaven = Universe. And the First Heaven is the Birds sore in the Heavens = Atmosphere.

How Are we SAVED ? ? ?


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but
according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus
before time began.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us- not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this Spirit on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.


If you LOVE HIM and then Trust HIM with All of you HEART, willingly give HIM complete Control.
HE will change the things in your life that don't Please Him. Willing LOVE HIM, and let HIM motivate YOU as an act of LOVE FOR HIM,
and you will be amazed How HE can change your life. No, your WORKS do not save you, JESUS DID IT ALL.

JESUS DID IT ALL, INCLUDING EVEN THIS:

Acts 13:48 (NRSV)
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord; and as many as had been destined
for eternal life became believers.

How is one saved, By being born again ! The Holy Spirit does this in one. because one understands the issue.

Ok so you know a person lets say or such persons and they are fine people and they believe in Jesus, they do not go about trying to drag him down but do not know or understand him enough to support him or to back him up, let alone not to tolerate anyone who works to undermine Jesus ! Remember Peter and the Cock crowing story ? Oh yes ! see ! Who will turn their back on Jesus ? you ! because you do not have the guts to stand up for Jesus ?

Now we have people of faith in Jesus ? as the worthy Jews did, but only for one thing ! they had to be born again ! and they did when Jesus went to Heaven and then they knew he was in fact the Christ ! See that reality ! A huge difference buster !
Oh you of little faith ? is that good ? well it's a start ! but is one the body of Christ Jesus and he their head ? No ! for they do not have the faith that can move Mountains ! Big difference buster.

But back to that person who you know that has only little faith or does the right thing without malice, like a Jew may do nowadays lets say ? lovely person who you love much for who they are. but they do not know Christ Jesus ? that salvation is in Him ! and not the so called churches ? or people in the churches are the same in fact or on par ?

Because I know most in the Church are not worthy of Christ Jesus in fact, to be honest ! such are all on about this world and playing the same handle as the Jew before Christ came in fact, just religious dribbling worldly dead people, boring as, for they have no life within them in fact. They are lukewarm and not on fire for Christ Jesus at all in fact.
If I walk into the Church or one on one and try to put the fire in them ! they will turn ? for they do not want the fire in themselves ! for they are not born again ! for if they were you would see the passion within them directly fire up !
But no ! they grow cold ! like the ones who killed Jesus did in fact.

The Churches nowadays are all lukewarm in fact, they do not preach Christ Jesus at all in fact !

I am on about Christ Jesus ! but watch them run to their gods they idolise and peddle.

So I say that going to Heaven or Hell may not be so simple a subject as some like to make out.
I believe that some may go directly to Hell ! for they are working against God in fact ! but some are not worthy of Hell I believe, like some Protestants ? they may do their best and such may not be Saved but they seek dearly, but for he weeds of this world choke them, stunting their growth or stifle is so much that only a little flicker is left.
Now it's not for me to say who goes to Hell or not but God in his Grace will deal with that issue ?
We know that Jesus went to fetch the OT Saints in fact and so where were such Souls waiting for the day ? so why cry about such a place ? for if you reject such, one is rejecting the Bible saying so.

I am not a RC so don't start all that crap. But I am a Catholic, I was brought up a C of E but also Lutheran and they both claimed to be Catholic in fact.
But I grew up when I was born again for I did not need them for such guidance anymore, for I have Christ Jesus for that in my life.

Talking directly to one I am of the opinion like, Look if one seeks to enter into Heaven, I have to go along with one who has even a little faith, in the hope ! because that's the direction towards Salvation, as I said I am not one to judge ! but I hope for them to grow and be on fire for Christ Jesus ! not lukewarm. It's very depressing to see Lukewarm people.

Look people should know that Jesus came, so that you would have life in abundance ! That's living a life that is full and worthy of him !
But most are if fear of death ? that's were they get off track ? Why not seek Life now ! for it's wonderful to be Saved from this world, so you are not a slave to all of the deceptions and delusions ? Get out of the septic tank ! Stand up for Christ Jesus and become a real human and not some filthy Rat.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

TRUST HIM, HE WILL GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING LATER.

Here is Kris Kristofferson's testimony of how he was Born Again.

I remember When HE gave me Salvation as a GIFT from HIM.

I didn't Know what had Just happened inside me, BUT I HAD TOTAL TRUST IN HIM.

I had this tremendous Guilt for my whole life style, as wave, after wave Washed Over Me.

Crying more that any baby Cries, and begging HIM for Forgiveness,

when that Peace Came, it washed all that Guilt away. I Prayed a Prayer that the Holy Spirit gave to Me,

Lord Forgive ME, Please Forgive ME, If you have a purpose for my life, you can have it. But you are going to have to come into my heart and RUN IT, because I cannot do it, I AM MAKING A TOTAL MESS OF MY LIFE.

I never heard such a prayer in any of the Churches that I had ever been to. Later on it came to me that was a prayer of total Surrender to HIM. And I will never want to take it back. HE gave me LOVE FOR HIM, Happiness, and Peace with HIM in Control.

Good to see such take place in him.

 

[VCO]

How is one saved, By being born again ! The Holy Spirit does this in one. because one understands the issue.
Rat.

Thank you, I am 74 with a heart Condition and several Strokes, so this may be my Last change to Led someone to be Born Again. I have led several, as for 15 years I was a Volunteer Prison Chaplain, in two prisons back to back that were supermax prisons. I will try to keep it Simple to understand, and understand, that I will tell you nothing but the TRUTH. The Church used to do a better job of explain this Critical Truth, but false teaching, started to creep in weakening our doctrinal statements.

At Child Birth the Body is alive and the Human Brain, is alive, But the Human Spirit is DEAD, because of the Sin Nature that we inherited from Adam. Hence the Human Spirit, is the Part of man that needs to be Born Again by the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB)
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body,
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free,
and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

That is the Baptism that SAVES YOU, done by the Holy Spirit, and immersed us into the Spiritual Body of Christ,

John 3:3 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Now I have to be careful, because I do not want this to go over your head, Born Again is the Work of the HOLY SPIRIT, focusing on the Heart of man, and that in itself, if proof that the Holy Spirit is working on your Heart. It is not the Heart Muscle, that is not what it means, but in the Heart area, after you are Born Again, you will notice it. It also involves DEEP, DEEP LOVE FOR CHRIST, that is why we call it the Heart, we just call it the Heart of man. You are very, very close to being Born Again.

So as I said, Being Born Again is Gift from GOD, and all who are Predestined, will become a Born Again Christian. More on the Predestination later. First I have to explain the Deep Mourning over our Sinfulness. That is what it was for me, l was walking down the hall towards my Bed Room after being out getting as drunk as I could. (I want you to promise me if I tell you what I did next, you will NOT TRY TO DO THE SAME), After I got totally wasted, I tried to attempt Suicide for the third time in a week. I saw the Road Crew pouring LOTS OF FRESH GRAVEL on a Bare dirt road a mile west my house. The most Dangerous Surface you can ride a motorcycle, wide open on is Fresh 6 inches thick Gravel. I was VERY DEPRESSED, because my Wife of only 6 month, told me told me she wanted a divorce on Christmas Eve no less. So I planned I would ride down that road FULL THROTTLE, until I wrecked the motorcycle, and if I leaned out over the handle bars, I would hit Head first, Quick and Easy, DEAD.

That whole MILE, that motorcycle, DID NOT EVEN WABBLE ONCE. I went slowly home, and sat their sobering up, and trying to figure out what JUST HAPPENED. About two hours later I walked down the hallway to my bedrock, as I crossed the threshold of my bedroom, the Holy Spirit Hit me with wave after wave of Extreme Grief and Mourning. I was Crying worse than a baby, and Crying out to JESUS, "Lord FORGIVE ME, Lord PLEASE FORGIVE ME, If you have a purpose for my life, I cannot do it. You will have to come into my life and Control IT, I am making a total mess of my Life." It was a Prayer of total surrender TO HIM, and their was Total LOVE FOR HIM, but I did not see How HE could forgive me. There were other things that happen that night the I will tell you about some other time.

So what actually Happens to you when you are Born Again. The Holy Spirit was working on your heart, trying to get you to genuinely Believe, GOD's Way. Mourning over your sinfulness is necessary, and it happened to me in a second or two, as I walked through that Bed Room door, it dropped me to my knees as I started to Cry uncontrollably for about 2 hours. Than is when the Holy Spirit came into my heart, and Jesus. I did not notice it at first, but my Human Spirit was Defiantly ALIVE AND LIVING. He let me get my mourning, crying spell out.

Then the TEACHING BEGINS. By the next day I had a sense there was something different about me. MY SPIRIT WAS ALIVE.

I knew that because I had an intense TRUST in HIM running my life, never before that. Now spiritual Growing, happens as you, feed it on the WORD OF GOD. But I did not know that at the time, so I did not open the Bible for about 3 WEEKS. I was having a running Conversation with HIM, daily. I would talk and HE would be PUT a thought in my HEART. After 3 weeks, I had to ask Him, when are You going to do something in my life? HE answered When you start feeding your new Born Spirit. I knew He meant I needed to get into the WORD, which was Spiritual FOOD. And INSTANTLY I recognized the DIFFERENCE. The Bible was very, very interesting to me, where before I was Born Again, it was the most boring book on earth to me. So I started reading the Gospel of John.

Then the WAR started in me. My HUMAN MIND wanted to go to a PARTY, and my Human Spirit wanted to Study GOD's WORD. That was the Kind of WAR that was inside me. The human Spirit gets stronger, as you feed on the Word, and as time goes by, it got easier and easier to do what GOD WANTED. Eventually the human Spirit will become dominant of the Will of the Flesh, but it takes a long time. What was the First Change in my life style that I Noticed? One day I would using a hammer to nail something together, and I HIT MY THUMB, and all that happened is out of my mouth came, DOG GONE IT! Not the long string of four letter words I used have spouted. I stopped and said to myself, When did that Happen? In the spring of 81 I was arguing with Him as HE put the thought in my Heart, You have got to quit smoking those Cigarettes. My favorite Aunt died of Lung Cancer at 29 years old. I wanted to argue with HIM, I said to Him, "Why should I quit as long as I enjoy them." The next morning I was sitting on the Bed, reached over to my Cigarettes, lite one up, and IT TASTED HORRIBLE TO ME. I had just bought a new Nat Sherman Carton of Cigarettes, only had 1 pack out of it, took them down to the bar, and Gave them away. That was the Last Cigarette I have ever had. You see one, by one, HE WAS CHANGING ME FROM THE INSIDE OUT.

About then I discovered the Christian Radio Station, that had GRACE TO YOU, the program that Dr. John MacArthur was Just starting the verse by verse Study of Revelation, A Jet Tour Through Revelation. That was the title of the first tape. I was HOOKED on Good Bible Teaching for LIFE. And my spiritual Growth just took off, growing Leaps and Bounds.

If you are Looking for a new Church, look for one with one hour sermons that teach verse by verse. Look for Bible Teaching Church, such as (the name of the Town) Community Church, or (the name of the Town) BIBLE CHURCH. And look on line and compare their Doctrinal Statement of Faith, to the one I posted: #172 on this thread: Are only 144,000 saved? (Rev 14:1)

 

[MatthewG]

God bless you in your pains @VCO. May God work in you to help someone else. And so for many people out there seeking out God in faith.

 

[Triumph1300]

Yes ? if one does not understand him ! How would one know if one did not know him ?

Acts 8:30
So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?”

31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

32 Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he opens not his mouth.
33 In his humiliation justice was denied him.
Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”

34 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?”

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus.
-------------------------------

And because somebody told and explained to him he understood and became born again.
Faith comes by hearing and reading the Word of God.

The story about the Ethiopian is a prime example.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Acts 8:30
So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?”

31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

32 Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he opens not his mouth.
33 In his humiliation justice was denied him.
Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”

34 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?”

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus.
-------------------------------

And because somebody told and explained to him he understood and became born again.
Faith comes by hearing and reading the Word of God.

The story about the Ethiopian is a prime example.

I went to Bible study groups for many years when I was young. I loved that ! but I had more answers that the Priest would not bother with, because they did not know or care to give any regard to really.
So I just studied the Bible for many years for myself, I came to love reading the Bible with a passion that book would be what I read every day and night till I could not see the words clearly anymore and had to go to bed.
The Bible I came to understand better as time went on, where I had a doubt over a passage, I would drag out the other Bibles for a translation to try and figure it out and wright such down in a book and then I would get conformed of the issue from another book in the bible as well and things started to click, it was all coming together ! I understood each book as to where they were coming from.

Look I had more faith than anyone that I have ever met by far ! but then came the day that, The Lord our Saviour came to me in person ! out of the blue ! Bang ! down I went crying ! I knew Christ Jesus ! who he truly was in fact, the lights went on in my Soul 100% it was wonderful ! the seeking was finished and I had been truly been born again, much like Saul was when he became Paul !
I have no doubts at all regarding Christ Jesus at all, it's 100% not 99.99%

 

[VCO]

I went to Bible study groups for many years when I was young. I loved that ! but I had more answers that the Priest would not bother with, because they did not know or care to give any regard to really.
So I just studied the Bible for many years for myself, I came to love reading the Bible with a passion that book would be what I read every day and night till I could not see the words clearly anymore and had to go to bed.
The Bible I came to understand better as time went on, where I had a doubt over a passage, I would drag out the other Bibles for a translation to try and figure it out and wright such down in a book and then I would get conformed of the issue from another book in the bible as well and things started to click, it was all coming together ! I understood each book as to where they were coming from.

Look I had more faith than anyone that I have ever met by far ! but then came the day that, The Lord our Saviour came to me in person ! out of the blue ! Bang ! down I went crying ! I knew Christ Jesus ! who he truly was in fact, the lights went on in my Soul 100% it was wonderful ! the seeking was finished and I had been truly been born again, much like Saul was when he became Paul !
I have no doubts at all regarding Christ Jesus at all, it's 100% not 99.99%

Then all you need is some very good Bible Teaching, and at least a FULL MEAL of the WORD at least once or twice a week, and you will experience the the spiritual Growth that I was talking about. Yes, I have found Born Again Catholics before. Most People don't even bother to witness to Catholics. Two of them were Priests. The Bible Teaching Churches have 1 hour sermon, and most limit the rest of the services to about a half hour, so 1.5 hours is about what our church services run. I used to be born and raised Lutheran and to my surprise I was invited to the Catholic Church with a friend. And to my SURPRISE, I knew the entire order of Service, it was the same order of Service Lutheran Churches use. I was even a Acolyte growing up (that is what the Lutherans call an Alter Boy), but was NEVER Born Again. They NEVER Taught US that. I thought I was a Christian, because of infant baptism, of what I did for the Church, and the fact that I took up space on a pew most Sundays. After I was Born Again, I felt like I was on a starvation diet of the WORD, their Sermons lasted only 10 to 15 minutes long. So eventually I had to find a Bible Teaching Church. The hard thing was facing Mom for the first time. She was very upset.

In my search for a Bible Teaching Church, a couple times I found doctrines that I could not agree with. Like those that think tongues are for today. I'm sorry if anybody wants to disagree with me, just keep it to yourself, I have debated that subject enough in my lifetype. I believe they are Counterfeit, their is nobody in recent history, HEARD everything that was said in their own Dialectos, and if it is different than what the Apostles did, it is a counterfeit, in my opinion. We moved a lot in our early life (by the way GOD brought a godly women into my life, and we were married 36.5 years before the Lord took her Home in 2015) so I have a long history of searching for a good Bible Teaching Church. So I look at their Doctrinal Statement of Faith, to find out what they teach, then I make an appointment to go talk to their Pastor, to ask several questions about what they teach, before I am comfortable enough to go to Church there.

In my opinion, A Church that has a 1 hour sermon, and is evangelical in Theology, is the type of Church I will be Comfortable in. I still enjoy a FULL MEAL of God's Word.

 

[Scott Downey]

Hello, VCO. I am very much with you that our spirits go directly to be with the Lord. We can look at what Jesus says (in Luke 23:43) to the thief crucified on His right and see that, like him, we will go to be with the Lord in paradise the very day that we die. Agreed.

But regarding being born again, do you not understand that event to be the point at which, in this life, we Christians are called by God and justified despite our sin and placed in Christ and His righteousness? Among others, the following are the first to Scripture passages to come to mind:

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience ~ among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:1-10; emphasis mine).

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:3-5).

Grace and peace to you, VCO.

yes, no one is born saved. We must believe in the Lord Jesus in our time, but it is true the God gave to us who believe this calling to be in Christ before time began that we would be His people, which is why in our time He makes us born again due to His mercy towards us whom He foreknows as His. And God did not give that upward call in Christ to every single person, only the ones He has chosen before they were born. Born into the natural world, you are of the world, born of God then you are of the family of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, you must be born again both to see and to enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Scott Downey]

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

Only those called and chosen will be with Christ, as only they are enabled by the Spirit to remain faithful to him.
All things work to the good of them that love God who are the called according to His purpose.

12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you [g]saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

 

[VCO]

yes, no one is born saved. We must believe in the Lord Jesus in our time, but it is true the God gave to us who believe this calling to be in Christ before time began that we would be His people, which is why in our time He makes us born again due to His mercy towards us whom He foreknows as His. And God did not give that upward call in Christ to every single person, only the ones He has chosen before they were born. Born into the natural world, you are of the world, born of God then you are of the family of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit, you must be born again both to see and to enter the kingdom of God.

WOW Scott, it is obvious the Holy Spirit gave you those words to put in that Post. AMEN, and AMEN!

 

[VCO]

I went to Bible study groups for many years when I was young. I loved that ! but I had more answers that the Priest would not bother with, because they did not know or care to give any regard to really.
So I just studied the Bible for many years for myself, I came to love reading the Bible with a passion that book would be what I read every day and night till I could not see the words clearly anymore and had to go to bed.
The Bible I came to understand better as time went on, where I had a doubt over a passage, I would drag out the other Bibles for a translation to try and figure it out and wright such down in a book and then I would get conformed of the issue from another book in the bible as well and things started to click, it was all coming together ! I understood each book as to where they were coming from.

Look I had more faith than anyone that I have ever met by far ! but then came the day that, The Lord our Saviour came to me in person ! out of the blue ! Bang ! down I went crying ! I knew Christ Jesus ! who he truly was in fact, the lights went on in my Soul 100% it was wonderful ! the seeking was finished and I had been truly been born again, much like Saul was when he became Paul !
I have no doubts at all regarding Christ Jesus at all, it's 100% not 99.99%

Now I want to tell you reason I abbreviated my testimony the night I was Born Again, there seem to be TOO MANY that would only scoff, or too many would misunderstand it as embellishment. So now I know you will understand, it really happen to me, a bit different than you, and I believe you a 100%. HE gets all the glory, none goes to me.

Remember I said "I could not Believe HE would want me Forgiven and SAVED". I was at that time In my life, when I was into the Party Hardy, lifestyle. Lots of Beer, Lots of Street Drugs, chased women, and claiming to be a Christian on Sundays. UNSAVED as it gets. When after my third attempt at suicide, as I was walking down that Hallway to my bedroom, and turned in "HE had to have reached down and grabbed hold of my Motorcycle, and held it steady at full speed on the mile." That thought dropped me to my Knees, Begging for forgiveness and Crying non-stop for 2 hours or more. About have ways through I dropped Prone on my face and Kept Crying.

Near the end of that mournfully crying spell something happened to Me. It was not a dream, it was MUCH TO VIVID for that to be true, HE gave me a Vision.

I was on my Knees at the Foot of the Cross, Still Weeping and Still begging for mercy, looking up at HIM, with my arms raised. AND realizing my SINS put HIM THERE. When I saw something unusual about the Nails in His Hands. They were not in HIS palm of HIS Hands, they were IN HIS WRISTS.

I Heard a Sermon by Dr. John MacArthur at Resurrection Sunday, that Explained it all, about 10 years Later. Only the Jews consider the Wrists to be part of the Hands. Take one hand and reach to the other with your thumb on the bottom part of your wrist and second figure on the top part, squeeze it in the middle, you will feel a HOLE. That part is where the weight of a man, one long nail would hold the him to the Cross. In the Palm it would rip right through the flesh. Dr. MacArthur read an article by a Christian Surgeon that Confirmed that. Back to the Vision.

I was starring at his wrist in bewilderment, and had stopped crying. In my mind, I was confused, because every picture I had ever seen had those NAILS in the Palm of HIS HANDS. While I stared at the Nails, I saw some Blood come out and fell on raised forearms, AND THE BLOOD FELT WARM. That is where the Vision Ended, but I KNEW FOR SURE I WAS FORGIVEN!

NONE OF IT WAS MY DOINGS, It was JESUS CHRIST Who Did It ALL.

 

[Scott Downey]

Now I want to tell you reason I abbreviated my testimony the night I was Born Again, there seem to be TOO MANY that would only scoff, or too many would misunderstand it as embellishment. So now I know you will understand, it really happen to me, a bit different than you, and I believe you a 100%. HE gets all the glory, none goes to me.

Remember I said "I could not Believe HE would want me Forgiven and SAVED". I was at that time In my life, when I was into the Party Hardy, lifestyle. Lots of Beer, Lots of Street Drugs, chased women, and claiming to be a Christian on Sundays. UNSAVED as it gets. When after my third attempt at suicide, as I was walking down that Hallway to my bedroom, and turned in "HE had to have reached down and grabbed hold of my Motorcycle, and held it steady at full speed on the mile." That thought dropped me to my Knees, Begging for forgiveness and Crying non-stop for 2 hours or more. About have ways through I dropped Prone on my face and Kept Crying.

Near the end of that mournfully crying spell something happened to Me. It was not a dream, it was MUCH TO VIVID for that to be true, HE gave me a Vision.

I was on my Knees at the Foot of the Cross, Still Weeping and Still begging for mercy, looking up at HIM, with my arms raised. AND realizing my SINS put HIM THERE. When I saw something unusual about the Nails in His Hands. They were not in HIS palm of HIS Hands, they were IN HIS WRISTS.

I Heard a Sermon by Dr. John MacArthur at Resurrection Sunday, that Explained it all, about 10 years Later. Only the Jews consider the Wrists to be part of the Hands. Take one hand and reach to the other with your thumb on the bottom part of your wrist and second figure on the top part, squeeze it in the middle, you will feel a HOLE. That part is where the weight of a man, one long nail would hold the him to the Cross. In the Palm it would rip right through the flesh. Dr. MacArthur read an article by a Christian Surgeon that Confirmed that. Back to the Vision.

I was starring at his wrist in bewilderment, and had stopped crying. In my mind, I was confused, because every picture I had ever seen had those NAILS in the Palm of HIS HANDS. While I stared at the Nails, I saw some Blood come out and fell on raised forearms, AND THE BLOOD FELT WARM. That is where the Vision Ended, but I KNEW FOR SURE I WAS FORGIVEN!

NONE OF IT WAS MY DOINGS, It was JESUS CHRIST Who Did It ALL.

19 So when they had rowed about [c]three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and drawing near the boat; and they were afraid. 20 But He said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” 21 Then they willingly received Him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land where they were going.

22 On the following day, when the people who were standing on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other boat there, except [d]that one [e]which His disciples had entered, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with His disciples, but His disciples had gone away alone— 23 however, other boats came from Tiberias, near the place where they ate bread after the Lord had given thanks— 24 when the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, nor His disciples, they also got into boats and came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus. 25 And when they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, “Rabbi, when did You come here?”

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

 

[Enoch111]

I absolutely believe that when we die, our human Spirit, if we are truly BORN AGAIN, goes directly to Heaven to Be with the LORD.

Make that "soul and spirit". The soul does not get left behind.

 

[face2face]

I would LOVE to have everyone Agree on something, but I fear this is not it.

I absolutely believe that when we die, our human Spirit, if we are truly BORN AGAIN, goes directly to Heaven to Be with the LORD.

2 Corinthians 5:8-9 (NKJV)
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. {They are not sleeping in the Grave.}

The importance of this subject should not be mistaken! To get this wrong, is to misinterpret almost every salvation based doctrine!

Firstly, in keeping with Paul's doctrine, what is meant by "away from the body?". What Paul is saying in context is being away from the natural body, and having been rewarded with a spiritual, or immortal body -- as at the judgment which is referred to in verse 10 (2 Corinthians 5:10)

For we must all (responsible believers) appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

It's really important, when we quote a verse, we do so in context and not like you have done by taking it out of context and adding notions which are not present in the text.

Also, notice how there is no mention of a spirit, or an ethereal substance wafting up to Jesus! It's not what Paul is teaching here. In fact, I challenge you to provide a plain speaking text on this immortal essense? You wont find it - I've searched hard.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Another example is look what happens to Beheaded Tribulation Saints.

Revelation 6:9-11 (HCSB)
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the people slaughtered because of God’s word and the testimony they had.
10 They cried out with a loud voice: {They have a voice in their dissembodied Spirit.} “Lord, the One who is holy and true, how long until You judge and avenge our blood from those who live on the earth?”
11 So a white robe was given to each of them, {That may be the very moment they were given their Glorified Bodies.} and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been.

Okay, great we have figurative language here!

Firstly, this is not a literal altar like that in the tabernacle.

Our literal altar is Christ!...and its him being refereed to here!

Heb 13:10 We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.

And those who are dead in Christ i.e We touch the Christ altar when we are "brought close" by baptism. We are then "in Christ' or the
Altar. Those who die "in Christ" are "under the altar," "sleeping in Jesus," dwelling in the dust...though the faith of those lives still speak!

What John saw in vision, was blood poured-out in sacrifice, and splashed upon the Christ altar. The word soul is used synonymously for life in many places.

Leviticus 17:11 states: "For the life (Heb. nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to
you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh); for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the
soul (nephesh).

So first you must get the language being used here - its offering language!
You must also note, its figurative of those who have been persecuted for their belief in Christ Jesus.
It's their lives and how they lived which is speaking out not the actual people who are dead.

In this place, "life" and "soul" are both given as translations for nephesh, and the statement is made that blood represents life or soul. John, therefore, saw the blood of the slain which was representative of their lives, or souls, poured out on the Christ-altar. The figure is obviously drawn from Leviticus 17.

If you are not able to acknowledge the figure then you are unable and unqualified to provide a truth interpretation.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Revelation 7:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

And finally we have Revelation 7!
A future vision of God dwelling with man.
Notice the reference to the Shekinah glory that over-shadowed the Mercy Seat? How will God one day dwell among men?
This is not speaking of ethereal spirits in heaven! What is the vision pointing forward to?
It's not present tense! There are still hungry and thirsty! God's will in Heaven, is NOT done on earth...yet!
There is nothing in this text that speaks of immortal souls or ethereal essence living post death.
F2F

 

[VCO]

Okay, great we have figurative language here!

Firstly, this is not a literal altar like that in the tabernacle.

Our literal altar is Christ!...and its him being refereed to here!

Heb 13:10 We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.

And those who are dead in Christ i.e We touch the Christ altar when we are "brought close" by baptism. We are then "in Christ' or the
Altar. Those who die "in Christ" are "under the altar," "sleeping in Jesus," dwelling in the dust...though the faith of those lives still speak!

What John saw in vision, was blood poured-out in sacrifice, and splashed upon the Christ altar. The word soul is used synonymously for life in many places.

Leviticus 17:11 states: "For the life (Heb. nephesh) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to
you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls (nephesh); for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the
soul (nephesh).

So first you must get the language being used here - its offering language!
You must also note, its figurative of those who have been persecuted for their belief in Christ Jesus.
It's their lives and how they lived which is speaking out not the actual people who are dead.

In this place, "life" and "soul" are both given as translations for nephesh, and the statement is made that blood represents life or soul. John, therefore, saw the blood of the slain which was representative of their lives, or souls, poured out on the Christ-altar. The figure is obviously drawn from Leviticus 17.

If you are not able to acknowledge the figure then you are unable and unqualified to provide a truth interpretation.

F2F

I believe it LITERAL. So we are through here.

BYE. I do not want to discuss it.

 

[VCO]

And finally we have Revelation 7!
A future vision of God dwelling with man.
Notice the reference to the Shekinah glory that over-shadowed the Mercy Seat? How will God one day dwell among men?
This is not speaking of ethereal spirits in heaven! What is the vision pointing forward to?
It's not present tense! There are still hungry and thirsty! God will in Heaven is NOT done on earth...yet!
There is nothing in this text that speaks of immortal souls or ethereal essence living post death.
F2F

That is your First Warning for being argumentative. I do not give you a Third Warning, I just put you on IGNORE LIST.