How Many Christians Believe When We DIE, Our Human Spirit Goes Instantly To HEAVEN?

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face2face

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I believe it LITERAL. So we are through here.

BYE. I do not want to discuss it.
When a person misquotes Scripture out of context and applies non Biblical notions to it...this is the type of response I would expect. At the very least you should be able to make the Lev 17 connection. Modern Christians apply their own confirmation bias to the text to bolster their misguided beliefs.
Your reply is sad and the fact that you dont want to discuss it even sadder.
F2F
 

face2face

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That is your First Warning for being argumentative. I do not give you a Third Warning, I just put you on IGNORE LIST.
It must be a long list - did I strike a nerve?
 

VCO

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When a person misquotes Scripture out of context and applies non Biblical notions to it...this is the type of response I would expect. At the very least you should be able to make the Lev 17 connection. Modern Christians apply their own confirmation bias to the text to bolster their misguided beliefs.
Your reply is sad and the fact that you dont want to discuss it even sadder.
F2F


That Is your Second Warning, already.

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.
 

face2face

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That Is your Second Warning, already.

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.
Don't you think your responses are a little over the top? What's with the warnings? You have created an OP and made certain assumptions which I have respectfully answered. Also, you state you have put me on ignore but you continue to reply to my posts?
how so?
F2F
 

face2face

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I was raised with this sort of thinking. I gravitated toward soul sleep more as I read the Bible.

The basic theological problem with immediately going to heaven is that it circumvents Judgement Day.
Yep, you are spot on here Wrangler! All the teachings of Paul concerning the Judgement are swept away, if you adopt the OP's line of thought.
 

face2face

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"Day" being a term limited to the times of this world, is as good as any in understanding that the day of judgement...is now. This is the day of judgement.
No this is the day of probation...the day of judgement is a fixed day in which God will judge those things done in the body i.e lives of those responsible to judgement.
 

face2face

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Hello, VCO. I am very much with you that our spirits go directly to be with the Lord. We can look at what Jesus says (in Luke 23:43) to the thief crucified on His right and see that, like him, we will go to be with the Lord in paradise the very day that we die. Agreed.
You are talking about a twinkling of an eye aren't you?
When the thief is raised in Christ "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed" 1 Corinth 15
That's what it will be like for those who sleep in the Lord?
 

VCO

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Don't you think your responses are a little over the top? What's with the warnings? You have created an OP and made certain assumptions which I have respectfully answered. Also, you state you have put me on ignore but you continue to reply to my posts?
how so?
F2F

This is a continuation of your Second Warning, because you did not read this Literally.

YOU DID NOT REALLY READ THE VERSE I QUOTED. I am not a new age Liberalistic Christian. I am an old fashioned Christian that believes in Literal Interpretations. Good luck with your liberalistic views, you are going to need it. I do not want to hear your watered down point of VIEWs. No Debates, No Arguments, No Disputes, it is forbidden, where I come from.

I believe this verse is to be taken LITERALLY.

Titus 3:9-11 (ISV)
9 But avoid foolish controversies, arguments about genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the Law. These things are useless and worthless.
10
Have nothing to do with a person who causes divisions after you have warned him once or twice.
11 You know that a person like this is corrupt and keeps on sinning, and so he brings on his own condemnation.


Your style of fun on this thread is SIN in my opinion.
 

VCO

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Make that "soul and spirit". The soul does not get left behind.

Do you know what Soul really is ? ? ?

Everyone in Natural Child Birth becomes a living soul or being. But without a living Spirit.

Let me show you.

1 Corinthians 15:45-46 (NASB)
45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

SOUL - Definition:
Old Testament In the Hebrew OT the word generally translated “soul” is nephesh. The word occurs over 750 times, and it means primarily “life” or “possessing life.” It is used of both animals (Gen. 9:12; Ezek. 47:9) and humans (Gen. 2:7).
Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary.
 
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face2face

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This is a continuation of your Second Warning, because you did not read this Literally.
Not sure if you have treid this approach with others and not sure how well that went for you but okay, I've been warned.

YOU DID NOT REALLY READ THE VERSE I QUOTED. I am not a new age Liberalistic Christian.

Neither am I.

I am an old fashioned Christian that believes in Literal Interpretations.
Being old fashioned doesnt restrict you to only one form of interpratation and I'm certain you dont read all Scripture literally.

Good luck with your liberalistic views, you are going to need it.
Rightly dividing the Word of Truth is not having liberalistic views - its allowing the Word of God to speak...you only need listen.

I do not want to hear your watered down point of VIEWs.
Everything I post is supported with Scripture which you are able to test for yourself.

No Debates, No Arguments, No Disputes, it is forbidden, where I come from.
It's the honour of Kings to search out a matter - this honour should not be so quickly dismissed.

I believe this verse is to be taken LITERALLY.

Titus 3:9-11 (ISV)
9 But avoid foolish controversies, arguments about genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the Law. These things are useless and worthless.
My initial responses to your OP had nothing to do with the above. You held incorrect views which were easily and Scriptually resolved. If anything, you should see the skill in this an endeavour to practice it yourself.
10 Have nothing to do with a person who causes divisions after you have warned him once or twice.
11 You know that a person like this is corrupt and keeps on sinning, and so he brings on his own condemnation.


Your style of fun on this thread is SIN in my opinion.
Yes, I love Scripture and the discovery of truth as I showed you in those three replies. I certainly dont want to deprive you of your cold callous style, if this is what motivates you to seek truth so be it.

As a case in point; you quoting Titus 3 at me, full well knowing this speaks to the wrong use of the Law of Moses, that to which "they of the circumcision" (Tit 1:10) would be inclined.

The motives of the circumcision party are well documented and to arrogantly label someone you dont know; especially someone who has corrected your error as such, is yet again another missuse of Scripture, something it appears you are making a habbit of.

May Yahweh be with in in your endeavours to search the Scripture daily.

F2F
 

face2face

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SOUL - Definition:
Old Testament In the Hebrew OT the word generally translated “soul” is nephesh. The word occurs over 750 times, and it means primarily “life” or “possessing life.” It is used of both animals (Gen. 9:12; Ezek. 47:9) and humans (Gen. 2:7).
Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary.
This is a correct definition for soul. The Bible is silent on an essense which lives on after death.
 

VCO

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Of course. Do you??? If so why did you omit soul? Are the souls of the saints not in Heaven?

It is not part of your Eternal Life, even animals had the soul which will die. I guess it could be called the spark of life temporarily. HOWEVER, at the rapture or the resurrection we get a GLORYIFIED BODY that already has ETERNAL LIFE in it. There was a lot confusion in the Translating the Bible to English, they tried to make the Soul part of the Human Spirit. It is NOT the same. Soul is the part of Natural Body, and at Death, the only the Human Spirit returns to GOD, if you are Saved, or Hades if you are Unsaved.
 

VCO

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This is a correct definition for soul. The Bible is silent on an essense which lives on after death.

Not in my BIBLE, it is NOT SILENT. Let me show you:

1 Corinthians 15:42-47 (NASB)
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.

John 3:3-7 (NASB)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water {the breaking of water at natural child birth,} and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. {The Dead Human Spirit cannot enter Heaven, neither can Natural Body, WE NEED that Glorified Body.}
6 "That
which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, '
You must be born again.'

So now you should know that the part of the Human Being Goes to Heaven when we die.

2 Corinthians 5:6-9 (NASB)
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord—
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight—
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
9 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (HCSB)
51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.
54 When this corruptible is clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal is clothed with immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: Death has been swallowed up in victory.
 
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Scott Downey

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This is a correct definition for soul. The Bible is silent on an essense which lives on after death.
Jehovah's witnesses, like you say, that when a person dies, they completely cease to exist.
No support in the bible for this?
There certainly is, and it is in what Jesus said in confronting the Sadducees who had a similar perspective to yours.
Jesus tells us God is God of the living.
So when someone physically dies and they are belonging to Him, they still live
And when someone believes in Christ this,

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

24 Jesus answered and said to them, “Are you not therefore [g]mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?

27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly [h]mistaken.”
 
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PinSeeker

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In most all of your latest citations, VCO, what is being referred to is the physical body. Paul is differentiating between the spirit and the body throughout, especially to the Corinthians, a troubled church in many, many ways, and so many of those troubles still exist, this being one of the biggest of them. During this life, the spiritual is present within the physical, and it is either dead (still, as it was from birth, dead in sin) or alive (made alive unto the Lord). When our physical (mortal) bodies die:

1.) for those of us who are born again of the Spirit, who have experienced the first resurrection and are thus spiritually alive in the Lord, we ~ our spirits ~ go to be with Jesus. We are with Jesus in paradise that very day (like the thief crucified on Jesus's right) ~ awaiting His physical return and our reunion with our physical bodies ~ our resurrection unto eternal life.

2.) for those who are still spiritually dead, never having been born again of the Spirit and experienced the first resurrection, they go... somewhere else (just like the thief crucified on Jesus's left). They too are then awaiting His physical return and their reunion with their physical bodies ~ their resurrection to eternal judgment.

This whole thinking of the mortal/physical ever really being separate from the spiritual ~ except for the time between physical death and Jesus's return when all are raised, as Jesus Himself says in John 5:28-29, to either the resurrection to life or the resurrection to judgment ~ is just... well, it's not biblical. As God says in Revelation 21, "I am making all things new" (not "I am making all new things").

Grace and peace to you.
 

Scott Downey

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In most all of your latest citations, VCO, what is being referred to is the physical body. Paul is differentiating between the spirit and the body throughout, especially to the Corinthians, a troubled church in many, many ways, and so many of those troubles still exist, this being one of the biggest of them. During this life, the spiritual is present within the physical, and it is either dead (still, as it was from birth, dead in sin) or alive (made alive unto the Lord). When our physical (mortal) bodies die:

1.) for those of us who are born again of the Spirit, who have experienced the first resurrection and are thus spiritually alive in the Lord, we ~ our spirits ~ go to be with Jesus. We are with Jesus in paradise that very day (like the thief crucified on Jesus's right) ~ awaiting His physical return and our reunion with our physical bodies ~ our resurrection unto eternal life.

2.) for those who are still spiritually dead, never having been born again of the Spirit and experienced the first resurrection, they go... somewhere else (just like the thief crucified on Jesus's left). They too are then awaiting His physical return and their reunion with their physical bodies ~ their resurrection to eternal judgment.

This whole thinking of the mortal/physical ever really being separate from the spiritual ~ except for the time between physical death and Jesus's return when all are raised, as Jesus Himself says in John 5:28-29, to either the resurrection to life or the resurrection to judgment ~ is just... well, it's not biblical. As God says in Revelation 21, "I am making all things new" (not "I am making all new things").

Grace and peace to you.
Yes, we will get a new body like Christ's resurrected body. The old body is dead because of sin as Romans 8 says. That same body is not resurrected, it is changed, I think it will though be a flesh and bone type of body, like when Christ showed himself to the disciples after he was resurrected. John says we will have a body like He has, we shall be like Him, yet it will also be a spiritual body.

And we will inherit the earth. God made the earth to be inhabited. Even the new earth has the city of God descending from heaven to be on the new earth. None of the saints are resurrected yet, that is still future, the resurrection is not past. Paul made a point about the false teachers who taught the resurrection was past.

----------------------

A Glorious Body​

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind [f]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

40 There are also [g]celestial bodies and [h]terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made[i] of dust; the second Man is [j]the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the [k]man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we[l] shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

Our Final Victory​

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “O[n] Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
 

Scott Downey

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And since the resurrection is still in the future, In Hebrews 12, it says right now the city of God, Mt Zion in heaven has the spirits of just men living there. Those justified men have not been resurrected yet, but they are alive in the city of God along with the holy angels.

The Glorious Company​

18 For you have not come [g]to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and [h]darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned [i]or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
 

Scott Downey

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The resurrection actually happens on the Last day. The LAST DAY is when Christ returns a second time.

2 Timothy 2:17-19

New King James Version

17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of [a]Christ depart from iniquity.”

  1. John 6:39
    This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. John 6:40
    And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. John 6:44
    No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. John 6:54
    Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
 

Ronald Nolette

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I would LOVE to have everyone Agree on something, but I fear this is not it.

I absolutely believe that when we die, our human Spirit, if we are truly BORN AGAIN, goes directly to Heaven to Be with the LORD.

2 Corinthians 5:8-9 (NKJV)
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. {They are not sleeping in the Grave.}

Another example is look what happens to Beheaded Tribulation Saints.

Revelation 6:9-11 (HCSB)
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the people slaughtered because of God’s word and the testimony they had.
10 They cried out with a loud voice: {They have a voice in their dissembodied Spirit.} “Lord, the One who is holy and true, how long until You judge and avenge our blood from those who live on the earth?”
11 So a white robe was given to each of them, {That may be the very moment they were given their Glorified Bodies.} and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been.

Revelation 7:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
@ Cor. 5 is all we need to know! Now that Jesus ascended all the faithful dead do not go to Abrahams Bosom, but their spirt and souls go to heaven, while the lost dead go the place of torments awaiting their final stop in the lake of fire.
 
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