Are you a Jehovah Witness ? ? ?
If not, tell us what denomination do you support ? ? ?
I support a non-denominational, Evangelical Church, and totally believe in their Doctrinal Statement.
How Many Christians Believe When We DIE, Our Human Spirit Goes Instantly To HEAVEN?
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Are you a Jehovah Witness ? ? ?
If not, tell us what denomination do you support ? ? ?
I support a non-denominational, Evangelical Church, and totally believe in their Doctrinal Statement.
Well, that depends on what you mean by "new."
Absolutely.
Hm, well, a bit of clarification, here:
For those who are still physically alive when the Lord returns, of which there will be many, "...(they) will be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye." This is the distinction that Paul makes in 1 Corinthians 15 ~ there will be those who do not sleep, do not physically die, but will still be physically alive when Jesus comes back, at the "sound(ing) of the trumpet." And this is exactly what he's telling the Thessalonians in his first letter to them in chapter 4, that "(those) who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep, for the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God."
And yes, all those who have physically died at that point will be resurrected, again, as John says in John 5:28-29, some to the resurrection of life and the others to the resurrection of judgment. This will be sorted out at the Final Judgment, described vividly by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 and especially Matthew 25:31-46. All those who died will be reunited with their physical bodies, the same physical bodies that God knitted together in their mother's womb, as David puts it in Psalm 139.
I think it will though be a flesh and bone type of body, like when Christ showed himself to the disciples after he was resurrected. John says we will have a body like He has, we shall be like Him, yet it will also be a spiritual body.
Absolutely. Agreed. Glad to hear you don't understand us to be... ghosts...
Ah, now with regard to the physical resurrection, I agree. That will be the second resurrection. But the first, as described in Revelation 20:4-6, this is just not true. The first resurrection is spiritual, occurring for each of us at our appointed times (Acts 13:48), when we are, as Paul puts it in Ephesians 2, "made... alive together with Christ... and raised... up with Him and seated... with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." This is the first resurrection, and "blessed and holy (are they) who share in (it)... over those the second death has no power" (Revelation 20:5-6).
Grace and peace to you, Scott.
Not if you use the correct Definition of what Soul really is. It is the spark of life in the Human Being. Most people believe it has something to do with Human Spirit, but it is not.
Genesis 9:12 (HCSB)
12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between Me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all future generations:
Psalm 74:19 (NRSV)
19 Do not deliver the soul of your dove to the wild animals; do not forget the life of your poor forever.
Judith 11:7 (NJB)
7 Long life to Nebuchadnezzar, king of the whole world, who has sent you to set every living soul to rights; may his power endure! Since, thanks to you, he is served not only by human beings, but because of your might the wild animals themselves, the cattle, and the birds of the air are to live in the service of Nebuchadnezzar and his whole House.
Ronald Nolette
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Well as you are using the OT definition and a non-Canonical book I can see why you do not understand. the soul of man is the immaterial part of man that makes us our uniqueness from all other living creatures. It is our personality and ratioanlity and what makes us , us in a human body. a saved person is a trichotomous being of body, soul and spirit, it is far more than a spark of life.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Resurrect someone though means to put them back into a body of some kind, just like Christ is the example of that being the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. Sleep means not soul sleep, it means the physical death of the body, a sundering of the spirit, soul, body.Well, that depends on what you mean by "new."
Absolutely.
Hm, well, a bit of clarification, here:
For those who are still physically alive when the Lord returns, of which there will be many, "...(they) will be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye." This is the distinction that Paul makes in 1 Corinthians 15 ~ there will be those who do not sleep, do not physically die, but will still be physically alive when Jesus comes back, at the "sound(ing) of the trumpet." And this is exactly what he's telling the Thessalonians in his first letter to them in chapter 4, that "(those) who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep, for the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God."
And yes, all those who have physically died at that point will be resurrected, again, as John says in John 5:28-29, some to the resurrection of life and the others to the resurrection of judgment. This will be sorted out at the Final Judgment, described vividly by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 and especially Matthew 25:31-46. All those who died will be reunited with their physical bodies, the same physical bodies that God knitted together in their mother's womb, as David puts it in Psalm 139.
I think it will though be a flesh and bone type of body, like when Christ showed himself to the disciples after he was resurrected. John says we will have a body like He has, we shall be like Him, yet it will also be a spiritual body.
Absolutely. Agreed. Glad to hear you don't understand us to be... ghosts...
Ah, now with regard to the physical resurrection, I agree. That will be the second resurrection. But the first, as described in Revelation 20:4-6, this is just not true. The first resurrection is spiritual, occurring for each of us at our appointed times (Acts 13:48), when we are, as Paul puts it in Ephesians 2, "made... alive together with Christ... and raised... up with Him and seated... with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." This is the first resurrection, and "blessed and holy (are they) who share in (it)... over those the second death has no power" (Revelation 20:5-6).
Grace and peace to you, Scott.
Otherwise, the concept is too abstracted from the what the word refers to in the scriptural texts.
resurrection
noun
res·ur·rec·tion ˌre-zə-ˈrek-shənSynonyms of resurrection
1
a
capitalized : the rising of Christ from the dead
b
often capitalized : the rising again to life of all the human dead before the final judgment
c
: the state of one risen from the dead
Well no, it means to raise from the dead, just like all your definitions above say. In this life, we are raised spiritually in Christ from the dead, just as Paul says in Ephesians 2, and when Jesus comes back, we will experience the second, physical resurrection, if we are not still alive in this life, just as Jesus says in John 5 and Paul and Peter speak of, among others.
Grace and peace to you, Scott.
I pulled some verses specifically referencing resurrection.
See if they agree with your view there
Being made spiritually alive is not spoken of in scripture with regard to resurrection, your using this as a concept only.
Scripturally resurrection is much more narrowly scoped.
Acts 2:31
he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
Acts 4:2
being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
Acts 4:33
And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.
Acts 17:18
Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, “What does this babbler want to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods,” because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection.
Acts 17:32
And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.”
Acts 23:6
But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!”
Acts 23:8
For Sadducees say that there is no resurrection—and no angel or spirit; but the Pharisees confess both.
Acts 24:15
I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
Acts 24:21
unless it is for this one statement which I cried out, standing among them, ‘Concerning the resurrection of the dead I am being judged by you this day.’ ”
Romans 1:4
and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
Romans 6:5
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
1 Corinthians 15:12
The Risen Christ, Our Hope
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Corinthians 15:13
But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1 Corinthians 15:21
For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:29
Effects of Denying the Resurrection
Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?
1 Corinthians 15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
2 Corinthians 5:1
Assurance of the Resurrection
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Philippians 3:10
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
Philippians 3:11
if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
2 Timothy 2:18
who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
Hebrews 6:2
of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 11:35
Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection.
1 Peter 1:3
A Heavenly Inheritance
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 3:21
There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The first resurrection is the resurrection of all of the saints of God.
The wicked are not raised with the saints at the same time, they are raised later on at the judgement which is the second resurrection.
Here is the only scriptural use of the 'first resurrection' ever mentioned.
By the way v5 is written, there is also going to be a second resurrection of the rest of the dead who are not the saints of God and Christ
Revelation 20:4-6
New King James Version
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
There is a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust, which is a separate event.
Acts 24:15
I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
Rev 20
The Great White Throne Judgment is the second resurrection
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
The wicked are not raised with the saints at the same time, they are raised later on at the judgement which is the second resurrection.
Here is the only scriptural use of the 'first resurrection' ever mentioned.
By the way v5 is written, there is also going to be a second resurrection of the rest of the dead who are not the saints of God and Christ
Revelation 20:4-6
New King James Version
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
There is a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust, which is a separate event.
Acts 24:15
I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
Rev 20
The Great White Throne Judgment is the second resurrection
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
So the second resurrection leads them to the second death, this is linked.
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Oh, yes it is...
Among others, this is, as I have said several times in this thread, exactly what Paul says in Ephesians 2:4-6 ~ "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..."Ah, well I would both agree and disagree with this, in different respects.
You're unintentionally conflating two different events, Scott. I agree that only the elect experience the first resurrection. However, this is not a one-time event that occurs for all the elect at the same time, but happens to each at the time appointed him by God. We can see this clearly in Acts 13:48, where Luke writes:
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."
So I agree with your first sentence here, insofar as it is written. But I disagree in that this resurrection occurs once for each of the elect and progressively for all the elect throughout the current age. This is what John is talking about in Revelation 20:4-6, when he writes:
"They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection!"
Regarding Revelation 20 specifically, the second resurrection is seen in verses 11-13, This resurrection is general, and corresponds with what Jesus is talking about in John 5:28-29, where we read:
"Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."
As for the second sentence, I agree in one sense, but disagree in another ~ because of the conflation of the two events. With regard to the first resurrection, I agree that those not elect of God are not raised at the same time as any of the elect; indeed they never are and never will be.
The first resurrection, we agree, is specific in nature (only experienced by the elect) and happens individually in this life, each at his/her appointed time, and is spiritual in nature, and has been happening since Jesus's ascension and will continue to happen to the end of the age. This is what Paul is saying in Romans 11:25-26 when he writes:
"...a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..."
The second resurrection is a one-time, future event which occurs upon Jesus's return. It is not specific in nature but general ("all who are in their tombs") and physical ~ the spirits of those who died physically through the age up to the time of Christ's return are reunited with their physical bodies. Then is the White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:12-13, also described by Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 and Matthew 25:31-46.
Grace and peace to you, Scott.
No exactly, I was questioning How an Animal can have a Soul (spark of Life that will die later), which is not the same as Holman's Dictionary defines the Soul in Humans.
Now it seems somebody embellished the meaning somewhere or another, and added something that the BIBLE DID NOT SAY.
New Testament Greek word psuche carries many of the same meanings as the Hebrew nephesh. Often the soul is equated with the total person.
Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary.
Here is PROOF:
Malachi 3:6 (NJB)
6 ‘No; I, Yahweh, do not change;
and you have not ceased to be children of Jacob!
John 3:6 (ASV)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh {<--Doesn't it make sense that Soul is part of the flesh?} ; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
{<--If Soul was part of the Spirit, why does it not say "soul and spirit" here in the pink?}
My turn to ask you a question?
Romans 8:4-6 (ASV)
4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
Do you believe the human spirit has a totally separate mind? I do! Or is that what you call the soul of man?
face2face
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correct man became a living breathing creature just like the animals. Nothing immortal here!
His Word is Spirit (John 6:63) which is the knowledge of God's Powerful Gospel unto Salvation....nothing immortal mentioned here.
Of course, the Spiritual Body which those raised will be given will be divine in nature, like unto the angels. But again, no immortal essence here either.
You would think on such a fundemental Christian doctrine God would give chapters and books to such a theme...but nothing.
We have already provided the correct interpretation for this section (at Judgement!). Also, no mention of immortal essence here.
Ah now you are talking - the mortal body putting on immortality, you cant put something on if you already have it! Man must be clothed with immortality.
Study clothed!
F2F
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face2face
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Yes, soul is more tied to the side of the mind and the flesh is the way I have viewed this in the natural man.
We need to force the old man down of the flesh and promote the new man of the spirit, as it says be renewed in the spirit of your mind. That new man God created in righteousness and holiness. God can help us reorder our mind to be more aligned with holiness and goodness, vs dwelling and living the lusts of the flesh. Our new spirits though are joined with the Lord as one spirit with Him right now. So the mind or soul is separate from the spirit. I have wondered if those believers who do not live as the Lord tells them, if they lose their minds, they may have some consequences to that at the judgement, maybe they are not as fully preserved and suffer losses, as they have a worse resurrection, fewer or even no rewards from the Lord except for that their spirit is saved, and everything else about them burns up. Even so, having eternal life is a great promise from God for all who believe in Christ. But they still will not receive everything they might have.
The New Man, Ephesians 4
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as [f]the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Mind separate from spirit example (spiritual gifts here)
1 Corinthians 14:14-16
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?
God sets your mind to heavenly things, if you are born of God as you are become spiritually minded enabled.
But we also make choices since Paul tells us to put off the old man and put on the new man.
Romans 8:5-6
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
We may actually feel wretched and conflicted, but there is this to encourage you,
Romans 7
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
So your Lutheran Church did not have Bible study days every week, I loved going to such days Thursday and into the night then to the Pizza place for dinner, my mates sister or his dad would drive us to and from. his sister would call it hooning driving to get a pizza !
But then the bible study days got shut down and finished, when I first came to bible study the group grew and grew, I think it got to big and got a bit out of control and the Jew next door was coming over causing friction saying things as well.
We were going on trips as well to the next 3 towns to meet other Lutheran Churches up to a hours drive away and once to Luther Lodge camp, it was great and I met the States Premier's Son their.
Speaking Tongues is for, one may put forward something and another puts it together better for the others to understand the issue better. One may say something that is not fully understood by the group but another makes more sense out of such, it can happen any time when talking about Spiritual matters.
One can say I understand what that person is trying to say or relate to others and then one just puts such in a better way for all to get a handle on.
No jabbering on with words that are not understandable as it's English being spoken, it's just that not all have a real handle on what is being truly said. one could say it's not eloquent spoken but one puts such forward in an eloquent way ? That's the way I see it and not at all to do with someone talking nonsense gibberish that's not English lets say. as we do not understand French say or anything but English. we do not know any other language ? but we may know another language of sorts that is still English but put forward in a different manner one could say but the speaking such is not truly adapt to conveying such well ? That's what I think is speaking Tongues. other than that I believe is just nonsense that idiot's are peddling. just only Religious nonsense that is not worthy, that gets out of control, so as to play people.
What I am saying is pretty simple factual reality of an issue but sure people can learn from getting a better handle on one talking and another, who can bring what was being said by one, clearly better put so all understand better what one was truly trying to convey.
Also regarding political speak ? one may know such language much better that the majority as well ?
Like I could pop up and put forward what was really said ? example the We will, means You will ! and the Us, means Themselves, not you !
Then you can look at insurance cover, that looks fine but if it come to falling back on such, well good luck with that, because they sure as hell are not their to look after your interest at all, but they will go you with every trick in the book to get out of paying up ! down right dirty tricks and all ! their is nothing that they will not stoop to.
Oh yes, but precious little actual Bible was Taught. The Words BORN AGAIN, never came up. Yes, and during to Summer, I went to LSV (Lutheran Service Volunteers.) What I saw was mostly Pep Talk about being a good Lutheran. And a few times, I when to the Pastor with questions about what a verse meant by what it said. I got the Standard Lutheran Answer. I am not allowed to tell you what it means, only what it says. Translated that means he didn't know either. I heard all kinds of Lutherans bashing Catholics, and all kinds of Catholics bashing Lutherans, you would think we were at War.
After I was Born Again, that and the 10 minute Sermons was WHY I decided I had to leave that Church and find a Church that REALLY Taught the BIBLE. I found a Church VERY GOOD Church, that not only taught VERSE BY VERSE, and also explained what it Meant, and How it applied to our lives. Finally after my wife died, I moved back home to Nebraska. So I just went back to same Church, and am Very happy with that kind of Church, with one hour Sermons. I get a FULL MEAL of the Word of GOD.
I looked at your town and their is only one evangelical style of Church, a Community Church, but their Sermons are only about 27 minutes each. I would feel like I was starving for the teaching of the word there. Here in the USA, almost every type of evangelical Church teaches at least one hour Sermons.
No, I do not believe that the so-called tongues speaking today is anything like what the Apostles did. When they spoke in Tongues, there was always some people their that Heard them speak in their native Dialektos, (Dialect). That is a language so specific, even the Dialect was so specific, it was like they were born and raised on the same Street. NONE OF THAT is done in the so-called modern tongues. Tongues ceased around the turn of the first Century. Why?
Mark 16:19-20 (HCSB)
19 Then after speaking to them, the Lord Jesus was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.
WHO CONFIRMED TO THE JEWS, that the New Testament was GOD's Word, just like the Old Testament? It says JESUS DID.
1 Corinthians 1:22 (ASV)
22 Seeing that Jews ask for signs,
and Greeks seek after wisdom:
When the main purpose for those signs, had enough Jewish witnesses to the New Testament, was Confirmed it was of GOD, then genuine TONGUES CEASED. 1 Cor. 13:8
That ecstatic utterances is not what the Apostles did, so I consider that Kind of tongues a counterfeit of the real McCoy.
NO I DO NOT WANT TO DEBATE IT! I got Sick and TIRED of that subject, as I have debated over a Hundred People on that tongues issue.
What about Corinth? Yes, there too. In the House on the right Side of the Jewish Synagogue was where the first Church at Corinth met. When Paul was teaching their. About 50% were Jewish converts, and about 50% were ex-pagans. Yes, years ago, I did a thorough investigation, and came up with the first Church at Corinth where Paul taught. And right next door would have been Synagogue of the Hebrews, so some of those Jews were convinced because to the REAL TONGUES, that the NEW TESTAMENT was also GOD's Word. YES, I believed like the day of Pentecost, those skeptical Jews Heard in their native Dialektos, and were convinced.
I finally found the Study in the spring of 2019, where I was searching for the Church at Cornith so I had a better layout map only because it was labeled. Only because I labeled what I am sure were Synagogue and the Home that Served as a Church until they has enough money to build a Church. The reason I am sure where the Synagogue of the Hebrews was the entire City was destroyed by an earthquake, and never rebuilt. There was a huge stone in the middle of the Lechaion Way (like main street) face down for centuries. And some one Turned it over about 2017, and found part of the inscription implied that it was Synagogue of the Hebrews. It could not be on the N.E. side as it looks like a Pagan Temple. So it had come of the front of the larger building on the S.W. side. And in this verse Paul was asked to leave, he was not welcome there anymore. And here is that VERSE.
Acts 18:7 (HCSB)
7 So he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God, whose house was next door to the synagogue.
All I had to do was find a house on the Lechaion Way, next door to large Synagogue, and you had the first church in Corinth.
QUOTE:
The inscription is crudely carved into a large limestone block. It was found on the Lechaion Road.
Written in Greek, it reads ". . . GOGE EBR . . ." = [SYNA]GOGE EBR[AION] — which can be translated as "Synagogue of the Hebrews [= Jews]." It probably dates to the fifth century A.D. and is evidence of a Jewish population in Corinth at that time. The book of Acts (18:4–17) gives evidence of Paul preaching in the synagogue of Corinth in his day and even mentions leaders of the synagogue such as Crispus and Sosthenes.
END QUOTE:
And HERE IS the Stone with the partial inscription still on it:
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well "flesh" here is Sarx. and while its primary meaning is the natural flesh, it is also used to connote the inner part of man that senses, acts. learns etc. Sarx is different from the spirit of masn, for the spirit of all mankind is dead in tresspasses and sins until we are born again.
the flesh or soul as used in the new testament represents that immaterial part of man that makes us the second highest created beings after the angels. Some call it conscience, some the heart but it is the rational thinking part of man.
that is why PAul gave his trifold blessing of body, soul and spirit. And in the blessing he used the more specific "psyche". which is also the seat of mans abilty to think, feel and rationalize which is not present in the animal kingdom.
Okay, we are almost on the Same Page. Body, Soul, and Spirit can also be translated Body, Mind, and Spirit. I believe the Spiritual Mind, is centered in the Heart area, and it is Separate from the Fleshy Mind, which lies between your ears, so that the sin nature does not contaminate it. Therefore, things like LOVE FOR CHRIST are better produced in the Heart area, rather the up there between your Ears.
Here is where I get the concept of two separate minds, while in the beginning of Born Again, the spiritual mind is weaker, that the carnal mind. BUT AS you feed on the Word of GOD, the spiritual mind gets stronger, and stonger. Eventually will over rule the carnal mind, most of the time.
Romans 8:5-6 (YLT)
5 For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit;
6 for the mind of the flesh is death, and the mind of the Spirit--life and peace; .
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Yes.
As I have said, in Luke 23:43, Jesus, just before dying, tells the thief crucified on His right, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise." Now, their bodies were soon thereafter in their tombs, but they were in paradise, that very day, just as Jesus said they would be.Grace and peace to you, F2F.
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