Moving on from Christs principles?

[ChristisGod]

That verse has nothing to do with receiving the Holy Spirit.

That verse is describing revelation knowledge and "sowing and reaping".

Exactly !

 

[ScottA]

As i was discussing with you.

Paul is "special".
He is the "apostle to the Gentiles", called to be so, After Jesus was back in Heaven.
The other 11, are not this "office".

Also, the Gospel that we are to teach and preach, is for the "time of the Gentiles"< given to us by the "Apostle to the Gentiles". = Paul

Its this.

2 Corinthians 5:19.

You'll notice that Paul wrote most of the Epistles and doctrine for the Body of Christ.

Paul himself warned against giving any man glory in the flesh, even referring to himself, but saying rather, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

 

[ScottA]

That verse has nothing to do with receiving the Holy Spirit.

That verse is describing revelation knowledge and "sowing and reaping".

And here you reveal your lack of knowledge, saying that the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with revelation.

On the contrary, all revelation is by the Holy Spirit. God is spirit.

 

[Behold]

Paul himself warned against giving any man glory in the flesh,

Be sure not to do that.., as Glory belongs to God and Christ...

But, there is also, something else you missed...

John 17:22
Jesus said......>""""I have given THEM the GLORY that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one"""


Now, noone here is giving glory to Paul.
But what we do, is understand that Paul's doctrine is THE Doctrine, regarding the "Body of Christ", in the "time of the gentiles".

 

[Behold]

And here you reveal your lack of knowledge, saying that the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with revelation.

I have not said that "the holy spirit does not give revelation.""""

So, listen ScottA.... dont make things up like that, as then you prove you are being dishonest, while also trying to pretend you are an authority.

Avoid that in the future.

Really.

 

[ScottA]

More heresy either one has Gods Spirit in them or they don’t . God gives different gifts of the spirit to individuals to use building up the body of Christ yet it’s the same Spirit of God at work in believers . And the entire 8th chapter of Roman’s exposes your error on the Holy Spirit .

hope this helps !!!

You speak out of both sides of your mouth.

I advocate for the Spirit by the terms of Christ, and you call "heresy." Then you contradict yourself to as much as agree with those same terms of Christ that I stated in quotes.

 

[ScottA]

Be sure not to do that.., as Glory belongs to God and Christ...

But, there is also, something else you missed...

John 17:22
Jesus said......>""""I have given THEM the GLORY that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one"""


Now, noone here is giving glory to Paul.
But what we do, is understand that Paul's doctrine is THE Doctrine, regarding the "Body of Christ", in the "time of the gentiles".

This is waffling. Have you forgotten? You attempt to justify your point regarding the measure by which Christ gives the Holy Spirit and pressing on beyond the elementary principles of Christ, which you have stated incorrectly.

 

[ScottA]

I have not said that "the holy spirit does not give revelation.""""

So, listen ScottA.... dont make things up like that, as then you prove you are being dishonest, while also trying to pretend you are an authority.

Avoid that in the future.

Really.

I quoted you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

God saves us against our will, right? You might as well say it outright, Ron. Not many first-rodeoers here - lol. We know what the exclamation points are about. You're mad because we're not buyin' the T-U-L-I-P stuff.

(I just can't seem to resist. This insomnia is drivin' me...)

Well those in the flesh cannot please God. the flesh cannot be brought in to the subjection of God. And to the flesh the things of God are foolishness. And masnkind is dead in their trespasses and sins, and we are slaves to sin before being set free by Jesus. According to God our free will is only to sin!

And no the exclamation points are not because I am mad, it is because I wish to strongly emphasize the point! I do not think I have gotten mad on the forum yet.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Perfect perhaps with what already have and already are, but perfect as our Father is perfect?

Job was perfect in the very first chapter of that book, but only perfect with what he had and what he was. He then went through trials and the LORD blessed his latter end more than his beginning. In other words he grew to be effectively more like the Father. Did not Jesus grow during his time as a man of flesh?

Lu 2:52

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

And then...

1jo 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

God has declared us complete and mature (perfect) Now He is making us what He has declared us to be! So our position is perfected already. Our experience is growing into what God has declared us to be.

 

[amadeus]

God has declared us complete and mature (perfect)

Your definition of "complete" is likely confusing to some...

Now He is making us what He has declared us to be! So our position is perfected already. Our experience is growing into what God has declared us to be.

When He has finished making us then would we be complete. By choosing our own way along the way instead of His, we hinder God in His purpose. We choose the Left hand of God rather than the Right hand.

Mt 25:41	Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mt 25:42	For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mt 25:43	I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mt 25:44	Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mt 25:45	Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mt 25:46	And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

When He has finished making us then would we be complete. By choosing our own way along the way instead of His, we hinder God in His purpose. We choose the Left hand of God rather than the Right hand.

I doubt this. god foreknew every move we would make and uses even our failures to our good ultimately. We may hinder but never thwart His will in our lives

Your definition of "complete" is likely confusing to some...

Well it means finished or reached the goal He set for us. In other words God sees us as already conformed to teh image of Jesus and is accomplishing it in our lives.

 

[amadeus]

I doubt this. god foreknew every move we would make and uses even our failures to our good ultimately. We may hinder but never thwart His will in our lives

Well it means finished or reached the goal He set for us. In other words God sees us as already conformed to teh image of Jesus and is accomplishing it in our lives.

I see no change likely in either of us with this.
Fare thee well.

 

[BarneyFife]

We may hinder but never thwart His will in our lives

So if God decided we would be saved, but we don't want to be saved, all we can hope for is to slow Him down a little? I'm having trouble with the word "hinder," Ron. It seems to me like the irresistible grace doctrine invariably spirals into word salad.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So if God decided we would be saved, but we don't want to be saved, all we can hope for is to slow Him down a little? I'm having trouble with the word "hinder," Ron. It seems to me like the irresistible grace doctrine invariably spirals into word salad.

Nobody "wants to be saved" in and of themself! The flesh does not want the things of God and salvation is a thing of God! It takes god changing our hearts to desire to be saved Just as Paul said in Philippians:

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

We cannot work anything out until God works it in! We cannot desire to do the will of God (and that includes getting saved) until god works it in us.

 

[BarneyFife]

Nobody "wants to be saved" in and of themself! The flesh does not want the things of God and salvation is a thing of God! It takes god changing our hearts to desire to be saved Just as Paul said in Philippians:

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

We cannot work anything out until God works it in! We cannot desire to do the will of God (and that includes getting saved) until god works it in us.

I forgot—we're all just fleshy robots.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Why?

Does the writer of hebrews say this?View attachment 32989

Some versions are clearer than others Matt:
(Hebrews 6:1) . . .Therefore, now that we have moved beyond the primary doctrine about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying a foundation again, namely, repentance from dead works and faith in God. . .

 

[Stumpmaster]

Why?

Does the writer of hebrews say this?View attachment 32989

Hi MatthewG.

Here's my contribution for your consideration:

There was an attachment to the Law of Moses among the Hebrews which made it difficult for them to "go on to perfection".

Heb 5:11-14 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing you are dull of hearing. (12) For when for the time you ought to be teachers, you have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. (13) For every one that uses milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. (14) But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Laying the foundation is the first step in the building process and once this in place we are good to go with the rest of the structure.

The subjects and discussions that accompany salvation have us going on to perfection, and by implication to completion. Where there is a genuine desire to be a blessing to the body of Christ by spurring one another on to fellowship in and around the Word of God, there will be teaching, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness as per 2 Timothy 3:16.

Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.