the return of Jesus Christ .... I see two phases
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Davy
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Time to put on the 'Mind of Christ'.
Daniel 9:24
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
Explain how Daniel 9:24 is possible apart from
a.) the Death(Cut-off) of Messiah
b.) the Resurrection of Messiah
c.) the Ascension of Messiah to "anoint the Most Holy"
Davy
Well-Known Member
I ALREADY explained it.
The list of prophetic events in Daniel 9:24 is FOR THE JEWS IN JERUSALEM, Daniel's people, and NOT CHRIST'S CHURCH!
So you CANNOT try to apply those events to CHRIST'S CHURCH, because they are FOR the majority of JEWS in JERUSALEM, Daniel's people, and for Jerusalem. And those JEWS today still REJECT Christ Jesus as Messiah!
Got it?
That is not totally truth. Jesus said to his followers:
Matt. 24:15 “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.
... quoting from Dan. 9:21; 11:31 and 12:11.
Most prophecies got three fulfillments:
1) the inmediate one (mostly involving the israelites),
2) the one in the first century (mostly involving the end of the old Jewish religious system and Christians in the first century) and
3) the one for the last days of the whole human system (involving Christians in the last days).
Davy
Well-Known Member
Your doing = cherry-pickin' of the Scriptures.
The Matthew 24:15-28 verses are all of the same timing, and then the Matthew 24:29-31 verses are about Christ's return to end that "great tribulation". That tribulation kicks off with that false-Messiah placing the IDOL abomination inside the future new temple in Jerusalem, which is what the Daniel prophecy is about that Jesus quoted.
Cherry picking???? I am talking about what you said AND IT IS FALSE. Watch again, and reason:
Jesus said to his followers in the first century:
Matt. 24:15 “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.
... quoting from Dan. 9:21; 11:31 and 12:11.
He is talking about a "disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a wholy place" yet to come at some point in the future, not something that had already happened before.
Reason properly or just don't discuss.
Jesus said to his followers in the first century:
Matt. 24:15 “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.
... quoting from Dan. 9:21; 11:31 and 12:11.
He is talking about a "disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a wholy place" yet to come at some point in the future, not something that had already happened before.
Reason properly or just don't discuss.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The MOST IMPORTANT PROPHETIC EVENT for the JEWS is the NEW COVENANT
Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.” - John ch4
Acts ch2
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’
22“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25For David says concerning Him:
‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’
29“Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33Therefore being exalted [j]to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34“For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’
“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Your being blasphemous against what Jesus showed in Matthew 24:15-28! You INTENTIONALLY leave out the REST of the Matthew 24 Scripture that GOES WITH THAT SINGLE 15TH VERSE! And you obviously did that ON PURPOSE!
Thus YOU... are the one that is pushing falsehood, and reveal you aren't to be trusted with God's Word.
That's the kind of teaching one gets in a lot of the false churches today too, just as with a SINGLE VERSE pulled out of the flow and context of the Bible Chapter, and then taught with adding MEN'S DOCTRINES to it. No wonder so many brethren come to forums looking for the Truth, and still most have to put up with false workers that only copy-cat their false preachers that don't have the "strong meat" of God's Word, and likely treat preaching as a business.
Davy
Well-Known Member
The JEWS in Jerusalem at Christ's 1st coming REJECTED HIM, AND HAD JESUS CRUCIFIED!!!!
So nice try MOCKING GOD'S WRITTEN WORD. That's what your doing, because of your favoring even of the 'ideas' of the UNBELIEVING JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Post# 48 and Daniel 9:24 is the MOST IMPORTANT TRUTH to the Jewish nation and the entire world.
Ignorance of MESSIAH'S fulffillment of Daniel 9:24 results in denying the GOSPEL of GOD for the Jewish Nation and the world.
Thus the Book of Hebrews was written for this very purpose.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You're just mouthing in hopes other will confirm your false notions...
Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
KJV
That "people" and "holy city" is SPECIFICALLY about the JEWS in JERUSALEM. Those things are still yet to happen... to THEM and JERUSALEM!
Therefore, you CANNOT try to apply that to converted Jews to Christ Jesus in Christ's Church!
ONLY... on the future day of Christ's return will those things of verse 24 be applied to JERUSALEM.
Until then, JERUSALEM TODAY still rejects Jesus Christ!
Even just a few years ago, the orthodox unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem had a New Testament Bible burning!!!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Ask yourself this: "where in scripture is Daniel 9:24 in the NT?"
Please read and study Hebrews = this is the OFFICIAL Document on the subject
Also, read Ephesians and Galatians and Romans
Davy
Well-Known Member
What is true violence is the many false ones that stand up behind a pulpit and give out a single verse, most often out of the context of the Chapter, and then STEAL the people's money who LOVE to be told what they WANT to hear, instead of being disciplined in God's written Word!O Lord! How much violence!
Are you Christian?
So just as it was with the children of Israel who would not listen to God in all of His Word, so it is today in the 'beth-aven' type churches...
Isa 30:8-13
8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, "See not"; and to the prophets, "Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
KJV
O Lord! More violence! ... and justifying it with the Bible!!!! 
If you represent God (according to yourself) and that's how you act... what difference would there be with those who represent the Devil? (John 8:42-47)
1 John 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother.
Matt. 7:15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.
I love you and I wish you a very nice day
If you represent God (according to yourself) and that's how you act... what difference would there be with those who represent the Devil? (John 8:42-47)
1 John 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother.
Matt. 7:15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.
I love you and I wish you a very nice day
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Davy
Well-Known Member
You can't preach to me as if I am not studied in God's Word, so stop trying to EXALT yourself to be something you are not.
Your vain attempt to mis-apply the Daniel 9:24 verse to CHRIST'S CHURCH will not work! And I SHOWED YOU WHY... and here goes again...
Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
KJV
The 70 weeks are determined upon WHO AND WHERE? (Jerusalem and Daniel's people, the JEWS)
1. "to finish the transgression" -- has that been finished today? NO! because that "transgression" is about the "transgression of desolation" of Daniel 8:12-13. That is what Jesus was quoting about with the "abomination of desolation" IDOL the coming pseudo-Christ at the end will place in a rebuilt Jewish temple in JERUSALEM.
2. "and to make an end of sins" -- has JERUSALEM and its people made an end of sins yet today? NO!!! Absolutely NOT! Reason is because the majority of JEWS there still REJECT Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, Messiah.
3. "and to make reconciliation for iniquity" -- has that come upon JERUSALEM and her people today? NO! Those orthodox unbelieving JEWS in JERUSALEM today STILL reject Jesus Christ, thus their SINS are NOT reconciled!
4. "and to bring in everlasting righteousness" -- that even has YET to happen for Christ's Church today, because Lord Jesus has NOT returned to reign over all nations and peoples! Only then will that "everlasting righteousness" begin.
5. "and to seal up the vision and prophecy" -- the "abomination of desolation" that Jesus prophesied from the Book of Daniel about the end events of this world is still... yet to happen today. So no, the Daniel prophecy is NOT yet fulfilled, particularly about that Dan.9:27 event which Jesus quoted in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 about the end.
6. "and to anoint the most Holy" --- Nope, not happened yet, for that is about the future cleansing and anointing to the Millennial temple that Christ and His elect will reign over all nations from, as written in Ezekiel 40 thru 47. This next temple the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem are going to build will be a temple of false worship for the coming Antichrist to sit in a exalt himself in place of God, and it will be destroyed on the day of Christ's future return.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You have no authority to claim because you instead heed men's doctrines instead of staying in God's Word. So if you've had your feelings hurt by my posting and covering Bible Scripture that fits your behavior, then if the shoe fits wear it, is all I can say.O Lord! More violence! ... and justifying it with the Bible!!!!
If you represent God (according to yourself) and that's how you act... what difference would there be with those who represent the Devil? (John 8:42-47)
You cann't hurt my feelings ... you don't have that power: the God who gives peace is with me and my brothers and sisters (Rom. 15:33). If you knew him you would love him to be with you too and have some peace, but you don't.John 15:17 “These things I command you, that you love one another. 18 If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me.
I am very sorry that you are filled with so much rage.
I give you this to brighten your life
Davy
Well-Known Member
I don't care what you want to believe. Stay on your smooth things if that's what you want, instead of disciplining yourself in God's written Word. But be warned, if you 'try' to claim you know the Scriptures in vain attempt to try and counter the Scriptures I reveal, then that is just further proof of your lack of understanding in God's Word.
John 15:17 “These things I command you, that you love one another. 18 If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me.
I am very sorry that you are filled with so much rage.
I give you this to brighten your life
So what was that SINGLE verse again in Matthew 24 you TRIED to use to support your ideas about the "great tribulation" events?
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