the return of Jesus Christ .... I see two phases

[Davy]

That is a very interesting way to see this matter. I see that you try very hard to understand the biblical teachings, and you quote many texts directly from the Bible.

I also believe that the reign of Christ and its interaction from heaven with humans is multi-staged and occurs over a period of time, and not just in a short instant. For example, the prophecy of Ps. 110: 1,2 says that Jesus would be seated by God at his right hand, but his enemies would still have to be subdued.

Psal. 110:1 Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” 2 Jehovah will extend the scepter of your power out of Zion, saying: “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

About 30 years after the resurrection and ascension into heaven of Jesus, Paul said that there were still things that had not been placed under the hands of Jesus... and today that is still the case, or else they would not exist on earth. the problems that exist, because Jesus would have finished with them as the Scriptures promise.

Heb. 2:6 But in one place a certain witness said:
“What is man that you keep him in mind, or a son of man that you take care of him? 7 You made him a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.”
By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.

However, Christ is already reigning in heaven, and although not many people can perceive it, the advance of the good news of the kingdom throughout the earth (Matt. 24:13,14) shows that the end is near and the kingdom will soon take over. control of all human affairs and the planet.

So the Scriptures show that 1) his enthronement occurs in a heavenly event at an earlier time, and 2) his coming to judge the world and take full control of it occurs later in a different event. Between one event and the other there is a period of time that allows other events related to Christ's brothers on earth to occur.

More silly doctrines from men not supported by Bible Scripture.

Christ Jesus is still yet to reign over all nations and peoples. So for one to believe He is doing that now would have to have their head buried in the sand, they are so deceived by Satan's host in charge of this present world.

 

[Davy]

Revelation 3:10 - Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,
I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world,
to try them that dwell upon the earth ........... someone wanna tell me this is not the Tribulation 7 year period ?

Rev 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
KJV

That above verse is about Jesus' promise to His very elect Church of Philadelphia that He would keep them from the tribulation by RAPTURING them out?!? NO!

Jesus did NOT say they would physically escape, which is a false idea you are trying to ADD to that Scripture that you got from men's false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture.

 

[Davy]

Where do theologians get that the great tribulation will last 7 years? Should we accept that idea without questioning its validity with the Scriptures? Should we believe that as dogma even if the Bible does not explicitly say that the great tribulation will last 7 years?

Thing is, God's written Word does... define that period. So no one can just 'wish' that Truth away as if it were not written.

The Daniel 9 seventy sevens prophecy given Daniel involved periods that represents a total of 490 years (70 sevens, or 70 x 7). Most English Bible translations uses the idea of a 'week' for a period of one seven, instead of 'sevens'.

69 sevens (or weeks) have been proven already fulfilled per history.

But the final last 7 (or "one week"), has still yet to be fulfilled, that of Daniel 9:27.

And with that final symbolic "one week", in the middle half of that, a false one is to come and end the sacrifices in Jerusalem and instead setup an IDOL abomination in false worship instead.

The middle half of the Dan.9:27 "one week" (7 years) separates it into 2 ea. 1260 day periods. That's the period of Revelation 11 that God's two witnesses will be given to prophecy at the end of this world. It is also equal to the 42 months reign by the "dragon" and his servants, given in Revelation 13 and Revelation 11 involving the Gentiles that tread the holy city in our near future.

 

[Davy]

There is no 7 year period declared in the Gospel or the Apostles or Revelation.

JESUS was "cut-off"(crucified) in the 70th week.


Daniel ch9
24“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

25“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

26“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Jesus was 'cut off' at the end of the 69th week bro.

And just because the pre-trib rapture doctors also agree that only 69 weeks have been fulfilled so far, does not mean they got that part in God's Word wrong.

Per Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse SIGNS about the end of this world, He quoted the "abomination of desolation" event prophecy from the Book of Daniel. And that prophecy directly involves those events of Daniel 9:27 about that final "one week".

But some brethren are not far-sighted enough in God's Word, and wrongly think Jesus was pointing to the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Romans. And since there's no more Jewish temple in Jerusalem, they think all that is old hat and will never be again. They are wrong!

Per the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.), there was NO "abomination of desolation" IDOL setup in the temple in 70 A.D. by the Romans. So Jesus' quote about the "abomination of desolation" regarding the end of this world did NOT happen in 70 A.D. The 70 A.D. temple burned down before the Roman army could get possession of it (that per Josephus).

And that Daniel 9:27 "one week" prophecy involves a STANDING temple.

So just because we don't see a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem today, does not mean there won't be another built just to fulfill that last "one week" prophecy that Lord Jesus pointed to in His Olivet discourse Signs about the end of this world. As a matter of fact, ultraorthodox Jews in Jerusalem already have the cornerstone for the new temple cut, and have already made many of the temple worship artifacts, with some of them on display in Jerusalem.

https://www.templemountfaithful.org/newsletters/5757-1997.pdf

https://www.templemountfaithful.org/newsletters/5758-1998.pdf

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus was 'cut off' at the end of the 69th week bro.

And just because the pre-trib rapture doctors also agree that only 69 weeks have been fulfilled so far, does not mean they got that part in God's Word wrong.

Good Morning Davy,

He was cut-off AFTER the 69th week

Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress.

Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing = after 69 comes 70

70th week Messiah is cut-off which results in:
a.) stop the transgression
b.) put an end to sin
c.) make atonement for iniquity
d.) bring in everlasting righteousness

Gospel and Book of Hebrews details this for us.

Peace

 

[Davy]

Here in Christ's Revelation is the 'link' to the Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11 prophecy of the coming false one to Jerusalem at the end of this world, that will setup an IDOL in false worship, for the coming tribulation.

Rev 13:11-15
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
KJV

That event is still yet future to us today.

But that is how the Daniel 9:27 final 70th week is linked to events for the coming "great tribulation" that Jesus warned us about for the end of this present world.

That future event, when that coming "another beast" will setup that "image of the beast" in false worship, is actually a what has been, will be again, type parallel to the days of Daniel involving Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.

Nebuchadnezzar exalted Daniel over Babylon's false prophets because of God interpreting Neb's dream. The false prophets were jealous, and sought a way to trap Daniel. So they suggested to Nebuchadnezzar to make a gold idol image and require all in the land to bow in worship to it. Then they sneaked around to catch Daniel and his fellows not bowing to it, which is how Daniel was delivered up to death. This "image of the beast" for the end, will be that same kind of event that the king of Babylon setup in Daniel's day. And it will involve a newly built temple in Jerusalem. That is what Lord Jesus' warning for the end about the "abomination of desolation" is about.

 

[Davy]

Good Morning Davy,

He was cut-off AFTER the 69th week

More correctly, AT... the end of the 69th week.

The final "one week" prophecy of Daniel 9:27 is still unfulfilled, which is why He warned us about the "abomination of desolation" event in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14).

Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress.

Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing = after 69 comes 70

70th week Messiah is cut-off which results in:
a.) stop the transgression
b.) put an end to sin
c.) make atonement for iniquity
d.) bring in everlasting righteousness

Gospel and Book of Hebrews details this for us.

Peace

Sorry, but you are following a doctrine of men called Preterism, which often misplaces many prophecies about the end of this world into the past.

None of the Daniel 9:24 list you give above have been fulfilled, and the reason is simple. It's because that list was given about Daniel's people (the Jews) and Jerusalem, NOT Christ's Church.

We CANNOT apply that Daniel 9:24 list to Christ's Church, because it's to the unbelieving Jews (Daniel's people) and Jerusalem. You do... realize that Jerusalem REJECTED our Lord Jesus, don't you, and the majority there still to this day continue to reject Jesus Christ. You realize that, right?

And just because 'some' Jews today have accepted Lord Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, that still does not mean they can apply that Dan.9:24 list to themselves either, because the prophecy is particularly about Jerusalem and its people, which today still rejects Christ Jesus in majority.

 

[David in NJ]

More correctly, AT... the end of the 69th week.

The final "one week" prophecy of Daniel 9:27 is still unfulfilled, which is why He warned us about the "abomination of desolation" event in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14).



Sorry, but you are following a doctrine of men called Preterism, which often misplaces many prophecies about the end of this world into the past.

None of the Daniel 9:24 list you give above have been fulfilled, and the reason is simple. It's because that list was given about Daniel's people (the Jews) and Jerusalem, NOT Christ's Church.

We CANNOT apply that Daniel 9:24 list to Christ's Church, because it's to the unbelieving Jews (Daniel's people) and Jerusalem. You do... realize that Jerusalem REJECTED our Lord Jesus, don't you, and the majority there still to this day continue to reject Jesus Christ. You realize that, right?

And just because 'some' Jews today have accepted Lord Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, that still does not mean they can apply that Dan.9:24 list to themselves either, because the prophecy is particularly about Jerusalem and its people, which today still rejects Christ Jesus in majority.

No need for us to argue as i am in no way a preterism.

If Christ was not cut-off in the 70th week then you have no Gospel and all that Hebrews speaks of.

Put on the Mind of Christ my brother = take time and let it dwell in you

The 70th week has not been completed.

 

[Davy]

No need for us to argue as i am in no way a preterism.

If Christ was not cut-off in the 70th week then you have no Gospel and all that Hebrews speaks of.

Put on the Mind of Christ my brother = take time and let it dwell in you

I had to bring up that seminary doctrine of Preterism because that is one of their ideas that the 70th week was completed on Christ's cross when it was not.

And I sorry to disagree with you about what you're trying to say about The Gospel and Hebrews supporting that 70th week already having been fulfilled, but that's simply not true either.

Preterism trying to join The Gospel and Hebrews as proof that the 70th week is complete is actually an oxymoron, simply because in The Gospel of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Lord Jesus warns us about the "abomination of desolation" idol event in Jerusalem for the end of this world, which just so happens to be what the final 70th "one week" of Daniel 9:27 is about.

So instead of heeding those men you are listening to, try more Bible study for yourself.

 

[David in NJ]

I had to bring up that seminary doctrine of Preterism because that is one of their ideas that the 70th week was completed on Christ's cross when it was not.

And I sorry to disagree with you about what you're trying to say about The Gospel and Hebrews supporting that 70th week already having been fulfilled, but that's simply not true either.

Preterism trying to join The Gospel and Hebrews as proof that the 70th week is complete is actually an oxymoron, simply because in The Gospel of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Lord Jesus warns us about the "abomination of desolation" idol event in Jerusalem for the end of this world, which just so happens to be what the final 70th "one week" of Daniel 9:27 is about.

So instead of heeding those men you are listening to, try more Bible study for yourself.

Forgive me for not emphasizing that the 70th week is NOT complete.

JESUS was cut-off after 3.5 years = mid week of the 70th.

The last 3.5 years will be completed at the FATHER's call when HE allows the Antichrist to be revealed.

This why in the Gospel, Apostles and Revelation there is no mention of a 7 Year Period, only a expectancy of the "wicked one being revealed" and in Revelation = "Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days."

 

[Davy]

Forgive me for not emphasizing that the 70th week is NOT complete.

JESUS was cut-off after 3.5 years = mid week of the 70th.

The last 3.5 years will be completed at the FATHER's call when HE allows the Antichrist to be revealed.

This why in the Gospel, Apostles and Revelation there is no mention of a 7 Year Period, only a expectancy of the "wicked one being revealed" and in Revelation = "Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days."

I still do not agree that is what the Scriptures are showing.

That 70th week (or "one week" of Dan.9:27), has still yet to begin today.

If you look 'closely' at the Daniel 8 prophecy about the "little horn", even that is linked to the Daniel 9:27 "one week" (70th week) for the end of this world.

Dan 8:9-14
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

That "little horn" prophecy is linked to the "vile person" events of Daniel 11, so this is actually a parallel to the placing of the "abomination of desolation" prophecy in Daniel 11, which Lord Jesus quoted in His Olivet discourse about the end of this world.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
KJV

Then the question is asked how long will it be to the end of those above events (by the little horn)?

The answer: "Unto two thousand and three hundred days: then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."


That idea of the sanctuary being cleansed is about the day of Christ's coming when that future cleansing will happen. It was not historical, not 70 A.D., because the temple sanctuary was destroyed. So we have to place the end... of that 2300 days period on the day of Christ's future return...



Those 1040 and 220 day periods allow for the future building of the 3rd Jewish temple for the end of this world in order to fulfill that final 70th week of Dan.9:27. That also allows for the re-establishing of old covenant worship in Jerusalem by the orthodox Jews when that temple is completed, and they start up sacrifices again. So the whole... 7 years of that 70th week will be for the end.

The Daniel 11 prophecy about the "vile person", who has the "abomination of desolation" placed in the temple at the end, per Jesus in His Olivet discourse, is actually about the final Antichrist for the end of this world. Antiochus never fulfilled all of that Dan.11 prophecy, so he only served as a blueprint in 165 B.C. Jesus quoted the "abomination of desolation" prophecy around 200 years later after Antiochus had been dead.

 

[David in NJ]

I still do not agree that is what the Scriptures are showing.

That 70th week (or "one week" of Dan.9:27), has still yet to begin today.

If you look 'closely' at the Daniel 8 prophecy about the "little horn", even that is linked to the Daniel 9:27 "one week" (70th week) for the end of this world.

Dan 8:9-14
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

That "little horn" prophecy is linked to the "vile person" events of Daniel 11, so this is actually a parallel to the placing of the "abomination of desolation" prophecy in Daniel 11, which Lord Jesus quoted in His Olivet discourse about the end of this world.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
KJV

Then the question is asked how long will it be to the end of those above events (by the little horn)?

The answer: "Unto two thousand and three hundred days: then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."


That idea of the sanctuary being cleansed is about the day of Christ's coming when that future cleansing will happen. It was not historical, not 70 A.D., because the temple sanctuary was destroyed. So we have to place the end... of that 2300 days period on the day of Christ's future return...

View attachment 33835

Those 1040 and 220 day periods allow for the future building of the 3rd Jewish temple for the end of this world in order to fulfill that final 70th week of Dan.9:27. That also allows for the re-establishing of old covenant worship in Jerusalem by the orthodox Jews when that temple is completed, and they start up sacrifices again. So the whole... 7 years of that 70th week will be for the end.

The Daniel 11 prophecy about the "vile person", who has the "abomination of desolation" placed in the temple at the end, per Jesus in His Olivet discourse, is actually about the final Antichrist for the end of this world. Antiochus never fulfilled all of that Dan.11 prophecy, so he only served as a blueprint in 165 B.C. Jesus quoted the "abomination of desolation" prophecy around 200 years later after Antiochus had been dead.

YES, all that is linked to the 70th week but not the beginning of it.

Keep in mind that the 7 year covenant was established by the Antichrist.

The 70th Week was established/preordained by God = Gospel

The 7 Year period can still occur but within the 70th week.

The 7 year covenant with the Antichrist is not the ushering in of the 70th week but the continuance of it where AFTER Messiah was cut-off.

The 70th week is Owned by God whereas the Antichrist's time is short = Revelation 12:12 and Matthew 24:22

"Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

 

[Davy]

YES, all that is linked to the 70th week but not the beginning of it.

Well, the beginning of the 70th final "one week" of Daniel starts with the "league" made between the "vile person" (Antichrist) and the false Jews in Jerusalem...

Dan 11:23
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
KJV

That's the Dan.9:27 idea of his confirming the covenant, which is linked to re-establishing the old covenant worship in Jerusalem, with a new temple and sacrifices.

Remember, for the "abomination of desolation" prophecy to be fulfilled like Jesus showed, there MUST be a another Jewish temple built in Jerusalem for the end, for the pseudo-Messiah to place the abomination idol in (Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; Revelation 13:13-15).

The 70th Week was established/preordained by God = Gospel

I don't know where the heck you're getting that idea from, but The Gospel of Jesus Christ is in no way connected to Daniel's final "one week" of Daniel 9:27, nor with the Daniel 9:24 prophecy list, which is ONLY about Daniel's people (the Jews) and Jerusalem, which today still rejects Christ Jesus in majority.

 

[Davy]

The 7 Year period can still occur but within the 70th week.

The 70th week is... the final seven years period.

But the actual time of the "great tribulation" begins in the middle of that "one week" (or 7 years), and is to be 1260 days or 42 months long per Revelation 11 & 13. The first HALF of the 7 years is for the building of the new temple and re-establishing old covenant worship in Jerusalem.

The 7 year covenant with the Antichrist is not the ushering in of the 70th week but the continuance of it where AFTER Messiah was cut-off.

Impossible.

Lord Jesus was 'cut off' on His cross in 29 A.D., and that ended the 69th week.

Then it has been approximately 2,000 years since then, and the 70th final week is still yet to start today, and won't start until the false-Messiah shows up in Jerusalem and makes that "league" of Dan.11.

"Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Christ Jesus said He shortened the time of great tribulation for His elect's sake. That shortened time is written as a parable in His Book of Revelation. Thus the coming "great tribulation" will no longer be an exact 1260 days, or 42 months, but the 'order' of events for the end He gave is still in effect.

 

[keithr]

Paul said that "twinkling of an eye" "change" happens on the "last trump", which is the 7th trumpet -3rd woe of Rev.11, the day when Jesus comes to gather His Church.

The "7th trumpet"? I think your assumption is wrong. The Cambridge Bible Notes says:

at the last trump] Some have referred this to the last of the seven trumpets in Revelation 8-11. See especially Rev_10:7. But this cannot be, since the visions recorded in that book had not yet been seen. It must therefore mean the trumpet which will sound on the last day. Cf. St Mat_24:31 and 1Th_4:16.​

and Barnes' Notes says:

At the last trump - When the trumpet shall sound to raise the dead. The word “last” here does not imply that any trumpet shall have been before sounded at the resurrection, but is a word denoting that this is the consummation or close of things; it will end the economy of this world; it will be connected with the last state of things.​

Further confirmation comes from Revelation. The Church members are resurrected and in heaven witnessing Jesus open the scroll with its seven seals, which is followed by the seven trumpets. Therefore the resurrection of the Church cannot happen after the seventh trumpet is sounded.

Revelation (ESV):

4:4) Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders [symbolic of the Church], clothed in white garments, with golden crowns on their heads.​

5:5) And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”​

(WEB):

(7) Then he [Jesus] came, and he took it out of the right hand of him who sat on the throne.​

(8) Now when he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.​

(9) They sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book, and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood, out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,​

(10) and made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth.”​

6:1) I saw that the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying, as with a voice of thunder, “Come and see!”​

8:1) When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.​

8:2) I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.​

8:3) Another angel came and stood over the altar, having a golden censer. Much incense was given to him, that he should add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne.​

8:4) The smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand.​

8:5) The angel took the censer, and he filled it with the fire of the altar, and threw it on the earth. Thunders, sounds, lightnings, and an earthquake followed.​

8:6) The seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.​

 

[David in NJ]

Well, the beginning of the 70th final "one week" of Daniel starts with the "league" made between the "vile person" (Antichrist) and the false Jews in Jerusalem...

Dan 11:23
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
KJV

That's the Dan.9:27 idea of his confirming the covenant, which is linked to re-establishing the old covenant worship in Jerusalem, with a new temple and sacrifices.

Remember, for the "abomination of desolation" prophecy to be fulfilled like Jesus showed, there MUST be a another Jewish temple built in Jerusalem for the end, for the pseudo-Messiah to place the abomination idol in (Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; Revelation 13:13-15).



I don't know where the heck you're getting that idea from, but The Gospel of Jesus Christ is in no way connected to Daniel's final "one week" of Daniel 9:27, nor with the Daniel 9:24 prophecy list, which is ONLY about Daniel's people (the Jews) and Jerusalem, which today still rejects Christ Jesus in majority.

That is not the beginning of the 70th week.

That is the beginning of the 7 year covenant of the Antichrist.

The 70th week belongs to God.

The "short time" belongs to the Antichrist.

 

[Davy]

That is not the beginning of the 70th week.

That is the beginning of the 7 year covenant of the Antichrist.

The 70th week belongs to God.

The "short time" belongs to the Antichrist.

The final 70th week IS... the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 which involves that 'covenant'.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

That "covenant" IS... the "league" of Daniel 11:23 that the "vile person" makes. We know that for certain because per Daniel 11:31 that "vile person" is the king who in the middle point of that symbolic "one week" (7 years) causes the sacrifices in Jerusalem to cease, and instead "shall place the abomination that maketh desolate" (Dan.11:31).

Someone has obviously confused you about that 70th week, making you think it's only symbolic or something. NO, it represents a period of 1 seven per the Hebrew. The previous 69th weeks represented periods of 69 sevens (or weeks). And the total 70 sevens is to equal a period of 490 years. Well, the final 70th week (7 years) was never fulfilled back in history, and is still... yet to begin, even to this day. As it stands today, only 483 years of the prophecy has been completed.

 

[David in NJ]

The final 70th week IS... the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 which involves that 'covenant'.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

That "covenant" IS... the "league" of Daniel 11:23 that the "vile person" makes. We know that for certain because per Daniel 11:31 that "vile person" is the king who in the middle point of that symbolic "one week" (7 years) causes the sacrifices in Jerusalem to cease, and instead "shall place the abomination that maketh desolate" (Dan.11:31).

Someone has obviously confused you about that 70th week, making you think it's only symbolic or something. NO, it represents a period of 1 seven per the Hebrew. The previous 69th weeks represented periods of 69 sevens (or weeks). And the total 70 sevens is to equal a period of 490 years. Well, the final 70th week (7 years) was never fulfilled back in history, and is still... yet to begin, even to this day. As it stands today, only 483 years of the prophecy has been completed.

70th week began with the Coming of Messiah

4“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

There is no other sacrifice for Israel that can:
a.) make reconciliation for iniquity
b.) bring in everlasting righteousness
c.) to seal up vision and prophecy = REVELATION
d.) to anoint the Most Holy = Hebrews = this is fully explained in Hebrews = READ Hebrews

ch10
Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

ch12
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

The 70th Week is Messiah and belongs to God.

The 7 years are given to the Antichrist which is cut short to 3.5 years.

 

[rwb]

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you (In my Father's house) .... And if I go and prepare a place for you (In my Father's house),
I will come again, and receive you unto myself;
that where I am, (In my Father's house) there ye may be also (In my Father's house).

This has nothing to do with the Return of Jesus to reign HERE on Earth for 1000 years

I agree, this has nothing to do with reigning with Christ here on earth for one thousand years.

All should agree the Father's house is heaven, and that's where Christ went alive in spirit after His body died on the cross.

Luke 23:46 (KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Heaven is also where the spirit of all believers returns to God when our body dies. Without the Spirit of Christ in us, the natural spirit in unbelievers is no different than the spirit (life) of beasts. Every living breathing creature upon the earth physically (bodily) returns to dust of the earth, and the spirit of man goes upward alive through the Holy Spirit in them. While the spirits of humans in unbelief returns to God without life, their fate the same as that which befalls the beasts of the field.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 (KJV) For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Before leaving this earth Christ promised that where He is we shall be also. And that He would come again to receive us to Him. This promise is fulfilled for every believer when we have been born again of the Spirit sent from Christ. It is through the Spirit that we are NOW with Christ, and by His Spirit in us, we have blessed assurance that when our body dies, we shall be with Christ in heaven spiritually alive a living soul.

John 14:15-21 (KJV) If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

When the last/seventh trumpet sounds, our body too shall be resurrected to immortal & incorruptible life and reunited with our living spirit that will return with Christ when He comes again.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

When our eternal spirit returns to our resurrected immortal body, we shall again be as God created us in the beginning before there was sin, and death through sin, found in creation. Then we shall be ready to live with Christ forever (not one thousand years) or without end on the new earth after this first earth has passed away.

 

[rwb]

Matthew 24:3 - And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying,
Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Question #1 - when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming?
Question #2 - and the end of the world?

IOW change the placement of the question mark to coincide with the things Christ warns of belonging to the coming of Christ through the Holy Spirit He would send. And when the Gospel has completed its task of building the Kingdom of God in heaven then shall be the end of the world or end of this age, and the new eternal age on the new earth shall begin. Christ tells us when the Comforter comes "I will come to you".

Could the "sign of thy coming" be speaking of the Holy Spirit sent to be IN all who believe? Two separate time periods, one pointing to the beginning of the Gospel age when the words Christ spoke would be fulfilled. That would be complete at the end of this world/age.

Matthew 24:30 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

John 14:18 (KJV) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.