the return of Jesus Christ .... I see two phases

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dadman

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First .... Jesus comes FOR his Saints (Rapture)
Second .... Jesus comes WITH his Saints (Jesus' return)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Rapture > Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18
Jesus' Return > Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14

Rapture > Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3
Jesus' Return > Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30

Rapture > He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30

Rapture > Earth not judged
Jesus' Return > Earth judged Rev 20:4-5

Rapture > A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51
Jesus' Return > Foretold in OT Zech 12:10

Rapture > Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18; Mat 13:28-30
Jesus' Return > Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1

Rapture > He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2
Jesus' Return > He comes with His Church for judgment and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9; Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21

Rapture > Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12
Jesus' Return > Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20

Rapture > Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3; Rev 16:16; Zec 12:9-10

Rapture > Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8
Jesus' Return > No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21
 
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Robert Gwin

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First .... Jesus comes FOR his Saints (Rapture)
Second .... Jesus comes WITH his Saints (Jesus' return)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Rapture > Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18
Jesus' Return > Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14

Rapture > Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3
Jesus' Return > Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30

Rapture > He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30

Rapture > Earth not judged
Jesus' Return > Earth judged Rev 20:4-5

Rapture > A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51
Jesus' Return > Foretold in OT Zech 12:10

Rapture > Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18; Mat 13:28-30
Jesus' Return > Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1

Rapture > He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2
Jesus' Return > He comes with His Church for judgment and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9; Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21

Rapture > Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12
Jesus' Return > Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20

Rapture > Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3; Rev 16:16; Zec 12:9-10

Rapture > Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8
Jesus' Return > No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21
There really is two phases Dad, 1st is Jesus' presence in which he receives the crown becoming King in the heavenly Kingdom of God, then there is the phase of his return, when he comes back to battle satan's forces which will end up with the removal of satans horde from the earth for a millennium.
 
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Davy

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First .... Jesus comes FOR his Saints (Rapture)
Second .... Jesus comes WITH his Saints (Jesus' return)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
That idea is a false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory. It is nowhere written in God's Word, because it holds to a gathering to Christ PRIOR to the "great tribulation", which is not written. There will be a 'gathering of the saints' ("caught up" in 1 Thess.4), but not prior to the "great tribulation".

Nor is the word 'rapture' written in God's Word. That word comes from Latin.

The word Apostle Paul used in 1 Thess.4:17 is Greek harpazo, which means to seize, and is translated to "caught up" (KJV).

There is only a ONE TIME return of Lord Jesus Christ, not two. And His return will be on the last day of this world. Several Scriptures you quote below are not about a rapture prior to the "great tribulation", but instead happen on the last day of this world...

Rapture > Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18
Jesus' Return > Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14
The Rev.19:14 verse is about the battle of Armageddon on the 7th Vial, on the last day of this present world, NOT prior to the "great tribulation". Thus you are misrepresenting the time of Rev.19:14, even though the Rev.19:1-4 verses clearly reveal the beast and harlot are destroyed BEFORE the marriage supper takes place. The pre-trib rapture theory instead wrongly believes Christ's saints are raptured out to the marriage supper prior to the beast and harlot's destruction. As long as the beast and harlot are working, then the saints are not gathered yet.

Rapture > Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3
Jesus' Return > Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30
The "father's house" of John 14 is about the future Millennial temple of Ezekiel 40 thru 47, which is shown to be on earth where Christ Jesus and His elect saints will reign over all nations from.

Matthew 24:29-31 reveals Christ's future coming AFTER the tribulation of those days, and in the Matt.24 version it's about the gathering of the 'asleep' saints Jesus brings with Him from Heaven. In the Mark 13:24-27 version, the saints are gathered from the earth (i.e., the "caught up" event of 1 Thess.4). Both... versions reveals that happens only when Jesus comes to end the "great tribulation" on the last day.


Rapture > He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30
Isaiah 25 reveals that ALL... peoples and nations will have the "face of the covering over all people" cast off on that day. The "vail that is spread over all nations" will be removed on that day. That "last trump" change at "the twinkling of an eye" will change all alive to the "spiritual body". This flesh world earth age will then be over, with only the "second death" of one's soul with spirit remaining.

On that same day, the last day of this world, is when that will happen, along with the resurrection, and is when all peoples will 'see' Christ's return coming in the clouds.

So once again, none of these Scriptures support the false two comings theory by the pre-trib rapture school.

Rapture > Earth not judged
Jesus' Return > Earth judged Rev 20:4-5
Idea that the earth is not judged when the saints are "caught up" is a doctrine men, nowhere written in God's Word.

Jesus returns one time only, on the very last day of this present world, and in Scripture it is called the "day of the Lord", and begins His "thousand years" reign with His elect. Revelation 20:4-5 is thus "thousand years" timing, with the wicked having already been judged and assigned separation. The Great White Throne Judgement of casting into the "lake of fire" doesn't happen until the end... of that "thousand years".

Thus it is silly to try and insert a pre-trib rapture theory into that.

Rapture > A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51
Jesus' Return > Foretold in OT Zech 12:10
The "mystery" of 1 Corinthians 15:51 is not about 'rapture', but the fact that ALL peoples will be 'changed' to their "spiritual body" on that last day of this world. As I showed in Isaiah 25, that includes the wicked too. The difference with them is that their souls will not put on immortality in Christ Jesus, so they will still be subject to the "second death". One needs to study all their Bible to understand this instead of just staying within a couple Books of God's Word like the pre-trib rapture churches often do.

Rapture > Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18; Mat 13:28-30
Jesus' Return > Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1
When Jesus was asked by His disciples "Where, Lord" about those 1st ones 'taken', Jesus said wheresoever the dead carcase is that's where the fowls will be gathered together (Luke 17:37; Matthew 24:28).

Therefore, Jesus showed the 1st one 'taken' is to the devil and his host, represented by those fowls. It means Christ's faithful servants will NOT be among those dead that are the 1st ones taken, even though pre-trib mouthpieces like Tim LaHaye made millions of dollars off his 13 part "Left-behind" book series.

Rapture > He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2
Jesus' Return > He comes with His Church for judgment and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9; Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21
The 2 Cor.11:2-4 idea from Apostle Paul wanting to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin", is probably too deep for you pre-tribbers who mostly do not study your Old Testament prophets.

Paul got that idea from the Isaiah 54 prophecy about 'blessed are the barren', with God using the idea of a barren womb remaining a virgin symbolic in the spiritual sense. The opposite is being found "with child" as a spiritual harlot when Jesus comes.

Revelation is written in the style of the Old Testament prophets, timelines moving often.

In Rev.19:1-3 is post-destruction of the beast and harlot.
Rev.19:4-9 is Millennial timing with Christ have already returned on the last day and gathered His Church, and they prepare for the marriage supper.
Rev.19:11-21, the timeline moves backwards to the last of day of this world, when Christ's only coming to destroy the beast and harlot and gather His saints happens.

Zechariah 14:1-5 shows Christ's coming on the "day of the Lord" to fight the battle of Armageddon, the same event on the last day of this world on the 7th Trumpet, 7th Vial. That is the same day He gathers His faithful Church, as He is still warning His Church to stay faithful on the 6th Vial.

Rapture > Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12
Jesus' Return > Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20
The Rev.12:7-17 events happens prior to Christ's future return to gather His Church.

In Rev.20, when Satan is bound, that only happens on the last day of this world, when Christ comes to gather His Church, and do battle at Armageddon. Satan being bound is the result of his loss at the battle of Armageddon.

Rapture > Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3; Rev 16:16; Zec 12:9-10
Paul said that "twinkling of an eye" "change" happens on the "last trump", which is the 7th trumpet -3rd woe of Rev.11, the day when Jesus comes to gather His Church.

None of that is referring to a pre-trib rapture theory. All those Scripture examples point to Jesus' one time coming on the last day of this world to gather His faithful Church and destroy the beast and harlot, and the armies out of the northern quarters that will come up against Jerusalem on that last day.
 

David in NJ

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First .... Jesus comes FOR his Saints (Rapture)
Second .... Jesus comes WITH his Saints (Jesus' return)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Rapture > Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18
Jesus' Return > Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14

Rapture > Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3
Jesus' Return > Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30

Rapture > He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30

Rapture > Earth not judged
Jesus' Return > Earth judged Rev 20:4-5

Rapture > A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51
Jesus' Return > Foretold in OT Zech 12:10

Rapture > Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18; Mat 13:28-30
Jesus' Return > Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1

Rapture > He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2
Jesus' Return > He comes with His Church for judgment and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9; Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21

Rapture > Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12
Jesus' Return > Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20

Rapture > Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3; Rev 16:16; Zec 12:9-10

Rapture > Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8
Jesus' Return > No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21
No where in the Holy Scriptures does it state that Jesus comes for the Saints, goes back to Heaven, comes back with the Saints.

To believe such is purely human conjecture.

To preach or teach such is falsehood.
 

M3n0r4h

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First .... Jesus comes FOR his Saints (Rapture)
Second .... Jesus comes WITH his Saints (Jesus' return)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Rapture > Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18
Jesus' Return > Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14

Rapture > Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3
Jesus' Return > Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30

Rapture > He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30

Rapture > Earth not judged
Jesus' Return > Earth judged Rev 20:4-5

Rapture > A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51
Jesus' Return > Foretold in OT Zech 12:10

Rapture > Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18; Mat 13:28-30
Jesus' Return > Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1

Rapture > He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2
Jesus' Return > He comes with His Church for judgment and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9; Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21

Rapture > Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12
Jesus' Return > Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20

Rapture > Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3; Rev 16:16; Zec 12:9-10

Rapture > Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8
Jesus' Return > No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21
you are dividing an event that is not divided in scripture.
 
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dadman

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No where in the Holy Scriptures does it state that Jesus comes for the Saints, goes back to Heaven, comes back with the Saints.

To believe such is purely human conjecture.

To preach or teach such is falsehood.

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you (
In my Father's house) .... And if I go and prepare a place for you (In my Father's house),
I will come again, and receive you unto myself;
that where I am, (
In my Father's house) there ye may be also (In my Father's house).

This has nothing to do with the Return of Jesus to reign HERE on Earth for 1000 years






.....
 
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David in NJ

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John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you (
In my Father's house) .... And if I go and prepare a place for you (In my Father's house),
I will come again, and receive you unto myself;
that where I am, (
In my Father's house) there ye may be also (In my Father's house).

This has nothing to do with the Return of Jesus to reign HERE on Earth for 1000 years







Most christians are clueless as to how this was fulfilled by the LORD.
 

Robert Gwin

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First .... Jesus comes FOR his Saints (Rapture)
Second .... Jesus comes WITH his Saints (Jesus' return)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Rapture > Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18
Jesus' Return > Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14

Rapture > Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3
Jesus' Return > Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30

Rapture > He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30

Rapture > Earth not judged
Jesus' Return > Earth judged Rev 20:4-5

Rapture > A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51
Jesus' Return > Foretold in OT Zech 12:10

Rapture > Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18; Mat 13:28-30
Jesus' Return > Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1

Rapture > He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2
Jesus' Return > He comes with His Church for judgment and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9; Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21

Rapture > Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12
Jesus' Return > Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20

Rapture > Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3; Rev 16:16; Zec 12:9-10

Rapture > Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8
Jesus' Return > No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21
The two phases are Mat 24:3 his presence, and his coming 2 Thes 1:6-9
 

dadman

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The two phases are Mat 24:3 his presence, and his coming 2 Thes 1:6-9
Matthew 24:3 - And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying,
Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

II Thess 1:6-9 - Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


I see these referring to the same event

---- 1 Thess 4:13 - 5:11





.....
 

Davy

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John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you (
In my Father's house) .... And if I go and prepare a place for you (In my Father's house),
I will come again, and receive you unto myself;
that where I am, (
In my Father's house) there ye may be also (In my Father's house).

This has nothing to do with the Return of Jesus to reign HERE on Earth for 1000 years

Oh yes John 14 about The "father's house" does... have something to do with Christ's future reign with His elect, ON THIS EARTH.

The Father's house Jesus was referring to is the one shown in Ezekiel 40 through 47, and it is shown on earth in the holy land. The chambers of the priests are the "mansions" (abodes in the Greek) that Jesus was talking about.

Your Biblical illiteracy on that is because of those false prophets you listen to.
 

M3n0r4h

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Correct, precious friend. They are Two Separate and Distinct Events That Must Be Rightly Divided:

God's Great GRACE Departure RDF The Second Coming!
no.

they're not.

they are no more separate and distinct events than Christ's return and the physical world being destroyed with fire on the very same Last Day.

rightly dividing the word is not Biblically defined as butchering the scriptures.

Christ says there will be 'A' resurrection, then He elaborates two outcomes of that SAME resurrection.
 
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ElieG12

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First .... Jesus comes FOR his Saints (Rapture)
Second .... Jesus comes WITH his Saints (Jesus' return)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Rapture > Christ comes for His own 1Th 4:13-18
Jesus' Return > Christ returns with His own Rev 19:14

Rapture > Believers taken to Father's House Joh 14:3
Jesus' Return > Believers come with Jesus to Earth Mat 24:30

Rapture > He is seen only by believers 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Every eye will see Him Mat 24:30

Rapture > Earth not judged
Jesus' Return > Earth judged Rev 20:4-5

Rapture > A Mystery - 1 Co 15:51
Jesus' Return > Foretold in OT Zech 12:10

Rapture > Christians taken first 1Th 4:13-18; Mat 13:28-30
Jesus' Return > Wicked are taken first Mat 25:1-13; Rev 3:8-10; Rev 4:1

Rapture > He comes to present the Church to Himself 2 Co 11:2
Jesus' Return > He comes with His Church for judgment and to set up his Kingdom Rev 19:6-9; Zec 14:3-4; Jud 1:14-15; Rev 19:11-21

Rapture > Casts Satan out of heaven to earth Rev 12
Jesus' Return > Binds Satan for a thousand years Rev 20

Rapture > Occurs in the twinkling of an eye 1Co 15:52
Jesus' Return > Comes to earth to do battle at specific locations Isa 63:1-3; Rev 16:16; Zec 12:9-10

Rapture > Jesus descends with a shout. 1Th 4:16 8
Jesus' Return > No shout mentioned Rev 19:11-21
That is a very interesting way to see this matter. I see that you try very hard to understand the biblical teachings, and you quote many texts directly from the Bible.

I also believe that the reign of Christ and its interaction from heaven with humans is multi-staged and occurs over a period of time, and not just in a short instant. For example, the prophecy of Ps. 110: 1,2 says that Jesus would be seated by God at his right hand, but his enemies would still have to be subdued.

Psal. 110:1 Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” 2 Jehovah will extend the scepter of your power out of Zion, saying: “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

About 30 years after the resurrection and ascension into heaven of Jesus, Paul said that there were still things that had not been placed under the hands of Jesus... and today that is still the case, or else they would not exist on earth. the problems that exist, because Jesus would have finished with them as the Scriptures promise.

Heb. 2:6 But in one place a certain witness said:
What is man that you keep him in mind, or a son of man that you take care of him? 7 You made him a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.
By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.

However, Christ is already reigning in heaven, and although not many people can perceive it, the advance of the good news of the kingdom throughout the earth (Matt. 24:13,14) shows that the end is near and the kingdom will soon take over. control of all human affairs and the planet.

So the Scriptures show that 1) his enthronement occurs in a heavenly event at an earlier time, and 2) his coming to judge the world and take full control of it occurs later in a different event. Between one event and the other there is a period of time that allows other events related to Christ's brothers on earth to occur.
 
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dadman

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Revelation 3:10 - Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,
I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world,
to try them that dwell upon the earth ...........
someone wanna tell me this is not the Tribulation 7 year period ?


Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 2:11
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 2:17
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 2:29
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 3:6
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 3:13
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 3:22
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.



Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 13:9
"If anyone has an ear, let him hear."
< ........... ooops !!! what is missing here and why ?







Because after chapter 3 ... the church is GONE !! .... MARANATHA !!!

BTY: If the church is going to experience the 'Great tribulation' period ... then
there is no way to ...
'Wherefore comfort one another with these words' ..... I Thess 4:18






.....
 
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ElieG12

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Where do theologians get that the great tribulation will last 7 years? Should we accept that idea without questioning its validity with the Scriptures? Should we believe that as dogma even if the Bible does not explicitly say that the great tribulation will last 7 years?
 
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David in NJ

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Revelation 3:10 - Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,
I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world,
to try them that dwell upon the earth ...........
someone wanna tell me this is not the Tribulation 7 year period ?


Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 2:11
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 2:17
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 2:29
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 3:6
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 3:13
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 3:22
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.



Unchecked Copy Box
Rev 13:9
"If anyone has an ear, let him hear."
< ........... ooops !!! what is missing here and why ?







Because after chapter 3 ... the church is GONE !! .... MARANATHA !!!

BTY: If the church is going to experience the 'Great tribulation' period ... then
there is no way to ...
'Wherefore comfort one another with these words' ..... I Thess 4:18






.....
There is no 7 year period declared in the Gospel or the Apostles or Revelation.

JESUS was "cut-off"(crucified) in the 70th week.


Daniel ch9
24“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

25“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

26“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
 
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David in NJ

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Revelation 3:10 - Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,
I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world,
to try them that dwell upon the earth ...........
someone wanna tell me this is not the Tribulation 7 year period ?


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Rev 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

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Rev 2:11
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

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Rev 2:17
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

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Rev 2:29
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

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Rev 3:6
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

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Rev 3:13
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

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Rev 3:22
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.



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Rev 13:9
"If anyone has an ear, let him hear."
< ........... ooops !!! what is missing here and why ?







Because after chapter 3 ... the church is GONE !! .... MARANATHA !!!

BTY: If the church is going to experience the 'Great tribulation' period ... then
there is no way to ...
'Wherefore comfort one another with these words' ..... I Thess 4:18






.....

LIE #1 = pre-trib rapture

LIE #2 = "Because after Revelation chapter 3 ... the church is GONE !! .... MARANATHA !!!"

LIE #3 = "BTY: If the church is going to experience the 'Great tribulation' period ... then
there is no way to ... 'Wherefore comfort one another with these words' ..... I Thess 4:18"

TRUTH #1 = Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
 

Robert Gwin

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Matthew 24:3 - And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying,
Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

II Thess 1:6-9 - Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


I see these referring to the same event

---- 1 Thess 4:13 - 5:11





.....
Yes sir, except chapter 5 goes a bit further than the rapture of the remnant.