Tongues ( 'sign' gifts ) did/did not cease?

[MatthewG]

I understand what I believe the original purpose was: Preaching the gospel to people in a language unfamiliar to us.

Whether or not there are other purposes, I wouldn't want "speaking in tongues" to become a status symbol, such that those who "speak in tongues" during assembly consider themselves superior to those who don't. I suspect such people aren't really speaking in tongues.

Hello Bob,

That tends to do alot with Human pride; even the simply having knowledge of the Bible, can make one feel as though they are superior to others. There have been alot of my thoughts and opinions that have been shared people may not like; but im not here to judge people based off what they may hold close to their heart; but to share atleast what can been seen in the bible; and sometimes im wrong but anything good that comes surely its by the Spirit.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict the Word of God.

But Scriptures are the Word of God.

2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

There are only a few cultural writings that Paul tells us are not from God. I don't consider Paul's opinions the Word of God, do you?

There are also some doctored verses that do not include ALL God's words, that create a twisted doctrine of demons. They are not God's word either.

 

[Bob Estey]

Was that God's only purpose? Was it His first purpose? Consider that God knew all of His purposes at once. What would be first for Him?

The first time I am aware of speaking in tongues in the Bible was during Pentecost, when people were preaching the gospel in different languages, so everyone would understand.

I can see no other reason to speak in tongues, but maybe someone else can think of another reason.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The first time I am aware of speaking in tongues in the Bible was during Pentecost, when people were preaching the gospel in different languages, so everyone would understand.

I can see no other reason to speak in tongues, but maybe someone else can think of another reason.

So I see you do not believe God's word. 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Obviously, tongues was not meant for preaching.

 

[amadeus]

I dont think anything which was said limits God; it limits humans; who were never told yo go heal the blind, deaf, sick, lame (except the disciples). Fruit deals with your spiritual relationship with God. Which brings forth love.

God has never changed. As the natural children of Israel limited God so do we limit God when we put our will in front of His within the dominion which is ours until we run out of time. Men had named this as free will, which is to go God's Way or our own!

Jos 24:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Note: we might put in place of the word Amorites money, Americans, Russians, pentecostals, baptists, Catholics (east or west), etc. Anything that takes precedence over God at any moment is a god to us.

If a man chooses not to serve God, the result is a final and complete death. If he chooses to serve God then the man's primary purpose is to please Him rather than himself or anyone else. Pleasing God must come before everything else including our own salvation or our own feelings, etc.

We are unable to please God in ourselves. We must ask for His help.

Ps 78:41

Yes, again and again they tempted God, And limited the Holy One of Israel.

That would be defined by 1 Corinthians 13; and also Galatians 5.


I dont think so. Seems like an Age has passed in my opinion.

Consider the following conversation between @VictoryinJesus and myself about 4 years ago:

VictoryinJesus said: ↑

Man (Adam) was given dominion yes. But Adam (man’s) dominion was taken away from man?

Amadeus said:

When did man lose dominion over himself? I do not believe that he did. This is where we can still see the two choices of men which have never been removed. A man may choose to (1) serve [surrender to] God (2) or not.

In the Garden of Eden it boiled down to obeying God by leaving the forbidden tree alone; or disobeying God by partaking of the forbidden tree. Joshua in effect confirms these choices here:

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

Man still ultimately has only those same two choices. Man has never been able to fix the things that are defiled or wrong within himself,
in spite of his advances in knowledge and technology and science...

Only God can fix the things defiled and wrong within a man, but God cannot break His own Word which gave us dominion. The dominion of a man allows him to work of and for himself which will never alone bring him closer to God. It will never make him a fit place for God to dwell [an inhabitable dwelling place]. That dominion of man does allow each man to man to open himself up [give God permission] to enter into him and do the necessary work of God. We must give that permission, and so God (to make the impossible possible) sent His Son to open the Way to the Tree of Life which was blocked when Adam and Eve disobeyed.

 

[amadeus]

The first time I am aware of speaking in tongues in the Bible was during Pentecost, when people were preaching the gospel in different languages, so everyone would understand.

I can see no other reason to speak in tongues, but maybe someone else can think of another reason.

The reasons for speaking in tongues would parallel or equal [I believe] the reasons for Jesus speaking parables:

Mt 13:13	Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mt 13:14	And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mt 13:15	For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mt 13:16	But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

I speak in tongues a lot each day during my daily conversations with God. Sometimes I do not understand, but sometimes He does give me understanding to edify me and/or to help someone else. Let us not limit God by defining what is or is not possible for Him nor for what He does or not use to accomplish His purposes:

Isa 55:8	For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9	For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[ElieG12]

Paul wrote a long passage of his 1 Corinthians letter to the topic of the tongues. He clarifies many issues regarding why this gift existed and why we know that it is not the glossolalia practiced by some religious.

(1 Corinthians 14:2-19)
2 For the one who speaks in a tongue speaks, not to men, but to God, for no one listens, but he speaks sacred secrets by the spirit. 3 However, the one who prophesies builds up and encourages and consoles men by his speech. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up a congregation. 5 Now I would like for all of you to speak in tongues, but I prefer that you prophesy. Indeed, the one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the congregation may be built up. 6 But at this time, brothers, if I should come speaking to you in tongues, what good would I do you unless I spoke to you either with a revelation or with knowledge or with a prophecy or with a teaching?
7 It is the same with the inanimate things that produce sound, whether a flute or a harp. Unless there is an interval to the tones, how can what is being played on the flute or on the harp be recognized? 8 For if the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle? 9 In the same way, unless you with the tongue use speech that is easily understood, how will anyone know what is being said? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air. 10 It may be that there are many kinds of speech in the world, and yet no kind is without meaning. 11 For if I do not understand the sense of the speech, I will be a foreigner to the one speaking, and the one speaking will be a foreigner to me. 12 So also with you, since you eagerly desire the gifts of the spirit, seek to abound in gifts that will build up the congregation.
13 Therefore, let the one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I am praying in a tongue, it is my gift of the spirit that is praying, but my mind is unproductive. 15 What is to be done, then? I will pray with the gift of the spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing praise with the gift of the spirit, but I will also sing praise with my mind. 16 Otherwise, if you offer praise with a gift of the spirit, how will the ordinary person in your midst say “Amen” to your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? 17 True, you are giving thanks in a fine way, but the other man is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in more tongues than all of you do. 19 Nevertheless, in a congregation I would rather speak five words with my mind, that I might also instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue. (...)
22 Therefore, tongues are not a sign for the believers but for the unbelievers, whereas prophecy is not for the unbelievers but for the believers. 23 So if the whole congregation comes together to one place and they all speak in tongues, but ordinary people or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you have lost your minds? 24 But if you are all prophesying and an unbeliever or an ordinary person comes in, he will be reproved and closely examined by them all. 25 The secrets of his heart then become evident, so that he will fall facedown and worship God, declaring: “God is really among you.”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Precious friends, this is an intriguing/interesting thought?:

Why would The LORD "reveal to Paul" that "the sign gifts would cease" before His
Second Coming, IF 'that Coming' is when "That Which Is Perfect Is Come"?

Did He Make 'an error'? Why didn't He Just Leave 'Such A Statement' out to
"prevent Much Confusion" since they will continue until He Comes anyway?
( Sure would be a LOT Less "biting and devouring" over the Massive Confusion, eh? )

Perchance He Really Meant His Pure And Preserved Word, Which He "Has Magnified
Above All His Holy Name" is Actually "That Which Is Perfect" and that "It Has Come"
and. thus "the sign gifts Have Actually Already ceased"?

What think ye?

Amen.

I have not seen all the replies so far, but will offer my 2 cents.

I do not believe the "charismatic gifts" have ceased at all. I do believe that tongues is the most misunderstood and abused gift on the church today.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The reasons for speaking in tongues would parallel or equal [I believe] the reasons for Jesus speaking parables:

Mt 13:13	Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mt 13:14	And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mt 13:15	For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mt 13:16	But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

I speak in tongues a lot each day during my daily conversations with God. Sometimes I do not understand, but sometimes He does give me understanding to edify me and/or to help someone else. Let us not limit God by defining what is or is not possible for Him nor for what He does or not use to accomplish His purposes:

Isa 55:8	For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9	For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

I do not think that is an equal comparison. Teh Parables were spoken to hide th etruth from the masses, while tongues was for the spreading of the gospel to other languages, or in a "prayer tongue", to edify the individual believer so that they may edify the church.

 

[MatthewG]

@amadeus i skipped along on your message, you didnt respond all that well, therefore i dont want to engage.

Its good to see you and others though.

 

[Bob Estey]

So I see you do not believe God's word. 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Obviously, tongues was not meant for preaching.

During Pentecost, people were preaching the gospel in tongues. They were speaking to men.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The narrative states that they all started talking together and hearing each other; sorta of like the Tower of Babel, but it was restored by the Spirit - to have the spirit lead people to encourage and edify others as they go along in this life. However, people need to get out there bible and read, Acts 2 out loud, and they will discover the evidence there - but what one believes about that is totally subjective.

Yes, we are to encourage each other, but that is not the purpose of speaking in tongues. With tongues we are speaking to God, not to man.

In Mark 16:16-18 tongues has no interpretation because it is TO GOD ONE WAY. That is perfect prayer or perfect praise TO God.
In 1 Corinthians 12, all of these gifts are for the Church to strengthen the church. The tongues there comes with interpretation because these are messages FROM GOD, and must be interpreted for the benefit of them all.

 

[Behold]

Yeah, I like to call this "new tongues" Christianeze! IOW we who believe are able to speak and now proclaim that which is new THE GOSPEL through the power of the Holy Spirit in us.

"through the power of the Holy Spirit" is how God empowers the believer.

Or as Paul teaches......

1.) "I can do all things THROUGH Christ".

2.) "Christ always gives me the Victory".

See those?
That is the Power of the Holy Spirit, doing that through Paul, and through all believers, as long as their faith is not broken.
If they have broken faith, then they are "fallen from Grace" and God is not doing anything through them... nothing.

How do you spot these people?

They will tell you that you can "lose your salvation".

 

[1stCenturyLady]

During Pentecost, people were preaching the gospel in tongues. They were speaking to men.

The Holy Spirit does not contradict Scripture. Why don't you know that?

 

[marks]

When did man lose dominion over himself? I do not believe that he did.

Romans 6:16-18 KJV
16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

As I read this passage, it is telling me that Adam gave over dominion of himself to his new master - sin.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, we are to encourage each other, but that is not the purpose of speaking in tongues. With tongues we are speaking to God, not to man.

In Mark 16:16-18 tongues has no interpretation because it is TO GOD ONE WAY. That is perfect prayer or perfect praise TO God.
In 1 Corinthians 12, all of these gifts are for the Church to strengthen the church. The tongues there comes with interpretation because these are messages FROM GOD, and must be interpreted for the benefit of them all.

Thats cool.

I dont really care all that much though.

Talking to God like he is my Father in and through Christ living to love God and love others is the main thing over all things even self.

And i cant take people super seriously on here for the most part…

No desire to do that, as that will kill ya.


I dont stated three or four times what tongues are and now done with the conversation.

 

[Behold]

Yes, we are to encourage each other, but that is not the purpose of speaking in tongues. With tongues we are speaking to God, not to man.

That is a prayer language.

That is not the "gift of Tongues"

The "Gift" is described in Acts 2, when the Jews say..>>"we hear Peter speaking in OUR Language" and there were many different dialect there, that day.

There is your "gift of TONGUES"... = foreign language.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Was that God's only purpose?

It wasn't a purpose AT ALL!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That is a prayer language.

That is not the "gift of Tongues"

The "Gift" is described in Acts 2, when the Jews say..>>"we hear Peter speaking in OUR Language" and there were many different dialect there, that day.

There is your "gift of TONGUES"... = foreign language.

Hi Behold.

On the Day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit fell.

BOTH the speakers and the hearers who all loved God received the Holy Spirit. They were all Jews

The 120 disciples spoke in tongues
the 3000 devout Jews came to Christ that day because of the gift of interpretation of tongues.

 

[amadeus]

But Scriptures are the Word of God.

The scripture were written by men as they were inspired by God to write them. As we see however on forums such as this one and elsewhere, people at times have different interpretations of the same written verses. We need [I believe] to have the proper Interpreter [the Holy Spirit] in order to really "hear" [understand] God's message in those written words to us or to anyone else.

2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

There are only a few cultural writings that Paul tells us are not from God. I don't consider Paul's opinions the Word of God, do you?

Consider the following:

Mt 4:6	And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Mt 4:7	Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

The devil quoted Psalm 91:11-12 and Jesus quoted Deut 6:16. Which of the two quotations was the Living Word of God? What about us when we quote the scriptures? Are our words ever also Alive?

Lu 21:33

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Joh 15:7

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.