I have noticed the following Negatives about the 'rapture'...

[amigo de christo]

Matt ch 24 & 1 Thess & 2 Thess & 1 Cor ch15 & 1 John are POST-TRIB Gathering of the Elect that occurs AFTER the Resurrection of the Just.

you wanna know something , even though i think ya know it .
We can bring them total proof . I have never seen them bring me even ONE SCRIPTURE that ever proves ITS A TWO TIME thing.
NOT ONE , i mean NOT ONE actual scripture can PROVE PRE TRIB . EVEN a well documented
teach OF PRE TRIB said , well NOT ONE SCRIP CAN PROVE IT .
CAUSE IT DONT EXIST is why . JESUS DONT COME BACK TWICE . ONLY ONCE
and my advice is the same as was theirs . FOLKS BETTER BE READY and watching
cause the moment HE DO COME , THERE WONT BE NO SECOND CHANCE
cause he comes for the church AND TO LAY DOWN THE WRATH OF GOD AGAINST ALL WHO REJECTED THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH
and loved a lie . ITS A ONE TIME EVENT folks . But as i said , YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT .

 

[MatthewG]

I personally believe by faith that Jesus Christ came during the plagues that were let down upon the nation of israel while they went up in flames - and some were taken as prisoners. 1,000,000 Jewish people were killed, and I believe that he came back and was seen in the clouds during this terrible time, and those who were looking, watching, and waiting in faith whom were part of the bride, where changed in the twinkling of an eye.

It's seems logical, and understanding to not know the time or the hour, but by faith I believe he did come as he promised otherwise he was a liar, and the apostles were also liars for saying he was coming again yet, he never did come again.

It's by faith - therefore no I can not provide evidence other than the destruction did occur upon the nation as promised by Jesus.

A good book to look into: Amazon.com




A comment from 2022,
5.0 out of 5 stars Finally some answers
Reviewed in the United States on July 6, 2022
Verified Purchase
I became so frustrated with current teaching about end times that I decided I didn’t want to ever sit through another study of Revelation. I realized that for my entire life I had heard “ any day now”.

I stumbled on Preterism and studied it with much doubt. This book and especially the author’s story of frustration connected with me. Many questions answered.



I do not know what many other people believe on this subject other than they are still waiting.

 

[MatthewG]

History, @wrecked. People can either investigate, or not. I tend to continue to always have this view, and people tend to reject it: but I believe it's really the truth. Despite what people may believe otherwise; which they are free to do so.

If we don't love each other through the differences then that will be the death of all of us.

 

[amigo de christo]

I personally believe by faith that Jesus Christ came during the plagues that were let down upon the nation of israel while they went up in flames - and some were taken as prisoners. 1,000,000 Jewish people were killed, and I believe that he came back and was seen in the clouds during this terrible time, and those who were looking, watching, and waiting in faith whom were part of the bride, where changed in the twinkling of an eye.

It's seems logical, and understanding to not know the time or the hour, but by faith I believe he did come as he promised otherwise he was a liar, and the apostles were also liars for saying he was coming again yet, he never did come again.

It's by faith - therefore no I can not provide evidence other than the destruction did occur upon the nation as promised by Jesus.

A good book to look into: Amazon.com

View attachment 34874


A comment from 2022,
5.0 out of 5 stars Finally some answers
Reviewed in the United States on July 6, 2022
Verified Purchase
I became so frustrated with current teaching about end times that I decided I didn’t want to ever sit through another study of Revelation. I realized that for my entire life I had heard “ any day now”.

I stumbled on Preterism and studied it with much doubt. This book and especially the author’s story of frustration connected with me. Many questions answered.



I do not know what many other people believe on this subject other than they are still waiting.

Yeah , that is called preterism my friend . You didnt personally believe it on your own
You probably read it and liked the idea .
But mark my words , even if you did come to in on your own , ITS WRONG my friend .
But i dont want to leave ya in a mess of confusion .
SO , HERE is an idea . GET IN THE BIBLE . Read it for hours daily , learn THAT JESUS
learn all sound doctrine well . AND yeah confusion and personal thoughts VANISH FAST
as TRUTH FILLS the heart andthe mind . so lets do that bible challenge today my friend .
HEY JESUS went to the cross for us , HE suffered quite a few hours on it too .
A few hours of the bible aint TOO MUCH TO ASK .

 

[MatthewG]

@Amigo,

Those people who were waiting for Christ, were waiting for Christ, with the contents and context of the Bible my friend.

Jesus is a liar,
and the Apostles are a liar,

if Jesus never came back in their time...

You must surely realize that.

It's not a fairy tale, that says in the future generations; that never is in the Bible sir.

 

[amigo de christo]

History, @wrecked. People can either investigate, or not. I tend to continue to always have this view, and people tend to reject it: but I believe it's really the truth. Despite what people may believe otherwise; which they are free to do so.

If we don't love each other through the differences then that will be the death of all of us.

IF we dont love one another to CORRECT those differences , THAT is what will be the death of one .
LOVE CORRECTS . LOVE REJOICES IN TRUTH . not in inquity , not in lies .
Lets get in that bible for a measly three hours a day my friend .
As i said , hey JESUS went to the cross for us , the least we can do is LOVE HIM and LEARN HIS TRUTH .

 

[amigo de christo]

@Amigo,

Those people who were waiting for Christ, were waiting for Christ, with the contents and context of the Bible my friend.

Jesus is a liar,
and the Apostles are a liar,

if Jesus never came back in there time...

You must surely realize that.

It's not a fairy tale, that says in the future generations; that never is in the Bible sir.

Spoken from the mind of preterism . BUT you sure seem to forget something
THEM WORDS apply UNTO THE END . they were not just for that old church age .
THEY FOR US TODAY . But again , you admit you hardly even read the bible .
You admitted that . You told me you havent even read all of acts and other parts .
SO , TRY DOING JUST that my friend . Put a measly three hours a day into reading that bible .
Believe me , ITS LOVELY to read . ANd keep reading it . YOU watch what happens .
BEAUTIFUL INDEED on how BY THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT those very words will shape your mind
and grow you in wisdom . BUILD YOU RIGHT UP , so as you will no longer be tossed to and fro
by things you THINK might be right or by men who do decieve .
NOW CALL THIS A LOVE MESSAGE . cause ITS OUT OF GREAT LOVE FOR YOUR SOUL i am
trying to HELP YOU .

 

[MatthewG]

You're attacking a viewpoint, which is pointless.

I could attack futurism but I dont, @amigo de christo.

Man wish you would allow me to freely believe how I choose to see from a viewpoint.

It must be a sin.

And you must be the authority.

See ya buddy, wont respond anymore to anything you may say.

 

[amigo de christo]

Anyway, thank you for the conversation, @amigo de christo back on ignoring you cause of the things you say and the way you present things cause it can be a little crazy, and to much. Love to you though glad to see you are still alive.

Mathew , you aint alone , most folks put me on ignore and quite fast too .
Guess folks dont like being reminded its time to READ the bible .
I mean you can talk to me and tell me i am wrong , but if i expose your stuff , ITS BACK TO INGORE i go .
Believe me , i have zero hard feelings and you aint alone . This is a regular occurence for me .
Truth is , heck you way kinder than most . At least you didnt say BY ANTI CHRIST or SON OF PERDITION .
yah , i been called that too . OF COURSE i forgive them . THEY know not what they do .
BUT in case you peek at this . PLEASE do read the bible for a few hours daily .
If folks did that , they would not see me as the enemy . BUT the only way you gonna know that
IS to , well read the bible , then after some time of reading it for hours daily
Perhaps a few months or six months . I want you to remember this . THEN come and lets reason together .
IF folks would just get in the bible for themselves , they would not see me as such a , hater or mean
or wrong. but again THE ONLY way to see that , IS well get in that bible and YOU SEE for yourself

 

[amigo de christo]

You're attacking a viewpoint, which is pointless.

I could attack futurism but I dont, @amigo de christo.

Man wish you would allow me to freely believe how I choose to see from a viewpoint.

It must be a sin.

And you must be the authority.

See ya buddy, wont respond anymore to anything you may say.

Yall use way too many words for me . What on earth is futurism . TRY and remember
i never really sat in churches . My learning came from GOD andthe bible .
I Dont know what half the people are saying when they say things like dispensation
or this or that big words .

 

[MatthewG]

You don't think that Preterism - a view that misinterprets about 1,000 verses of prophecy - is an attack on Futurism?

No. Also I dont know everything Preterism invovles.

You could call me someone who is a Fullfilment Guy and believes everything has been fulfilled today.

However, that doesn't disregard the growing and maturity of new born Christians, and their walk by the spirit which is reinforced by the Gospels in which there is hope that one day, we will leave this place and there will be no more death (spiritual death), no more pain, no more suffering, no more tears.

I could be wrong, but the bible presents a case that say differently and to consider all the dates are 'debateable', when was what written and when.

 

[amigo de christo]

You're attacking a viewpoint, which is pointless.

I could attack futurism but I dont, @amigo de christo.

Man wish you would allow me to freely believe how I choose to see from a viewpoint.

It must be a sin.

And you must be the authority.

See ya buddy, wont respond anymore to anything you may say.

You actually said a truth . ANd i want everyone here to see that .
YOURRIGHT , i DO go after view points . VIEW POINTS . that is a good thing .
You dont see me going after YOU and saying anti christ or other stuff .
BUT VIEW POINTS that oppose TRUTH . YOU BET I go after the view point .
This too is why its often hard for the mods at other places to get me at first .
Because everyone else when fighting calls each other names . ME i just stick to going after the view point
and reminding folks to GET IN THE Bible .
BUT believe me , in time they always come for me my friend .
I have been put in a digital ghetto even .
AND even those they put in there with me , said THERE was no way i should have been there .
cause while even they dont agree with my doctrine , THEY said , YOU were never MEAN to anyone .
CORRECTING and REBUKING aint mean either . NAME CALLING is another thing .
Following people around and calling them stupied , dumb , sayin they cant write or spell . yeah
that might be mean . BUT EVEN THOSE who do that i refuse to put on ignore mathew .
GOD might just keep giving me words and who knows maybe even they will hear . MY DESIRE IS GOOD
for all the people . ITS why I DO correct any and all bad viewpoints . IT aint cause i hate the person
ITS cause i want THE BEST FOR SAID PERSON . GOOD for them .

 

[MatthewG]

No. Also I dont know everything Preterism invovles.

You could call me someone who is a Fullfilment Guy and believes everything has been fulfilled today.

However, that doesn't disregard the growing and maturity of new born Christians, and their walk by the spirit which is reinforced by the Gospels in which there is hope that one day, we will leave this place and there will be no more death (spiritual death), no more pain, no more suffering, no more tears.

I could be wrong, but the bible presents a case that say differently and to consider all the dates are 'debateable', when was what written and when.

@wrecked.

There are four viewpoints pertaining to Revelation, and a viewpoint is subjective to the individual.

Futurism,
Preterism,
Ideaism,
Spiritualism,

If I remember correctly.

A good study bible is Thompson Chain Reference Bible.

 

[MatthewG]

I use to have a Thompson Chain back in the 70's.

They are relatively cheap.

Amazon.com : thompson chain reference study bible nkjv large print

Keywords: thompson chain reference study bibles - Christianbook.com

Shop for thompson chain reference study bibles and much more. Everything Christian for less.

www.christianbook.com

I support and encourage for any person who is a student or teacher of the bible to grab one.

 

[amigo de christo]

It troubles me when one Christian questions the salvation of another. Though I disagree with Preterism - condemning others who believe it is way out of line.

Show me where i condemned the man . correction is not condemnation .
What he said is coming from the mind of preterism . And then i tripled down on reminding him about reading the bible .
He even told me ,quite a while back he has not even read the whole bible .
I am just trying to convince him to do this . There was no condmenation in that .
Correcting one is not condemining one . IF you want to see one condmen one
go read the posts jim B used to say to me . Those were some ugly posts .
BUT EVEN JIM i did not put on ignore . Gotta do what i must do my friend . I desire only good for the peoples .
The warnings might only increase in the short time we have left in this ol world .
But if anyone here thinks my reminders are condemnation , prepare to wail when you see what some of them apostles
said . or even JESUS himself said to some . The more we all read that bible , I TELL US ALL
the better off we would truly be .

 

[MatthewG]

Finnis Dakes

Cool. There is a program called E-sword with a lot of free commentaries to look at viewing through the chapters and verses, which it is interesting to see what Scholars have to say on the Bible.

Adam Clarke, ... There was one more but I can't remember. John Gill.

It is interesting to see their take.

nice to have a chat with you.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

He didn't ascribe evil intent to a lot of people. I understood him as labeling pre-trib being evil.

Welcome to the forums.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Daniel ch12 was unsealed for us by the LORD in the Gospel, by the Apostles and by Revelation

Yes I believe Jesus _ after He as ended into heaven _ was then given the scroll and He opened the seals. It was a written document (spiritual in the heavens, like a play book), plans to be carried out in the future. Why do I say this? Because after each seal is opened, the angel says " "come and see ...", showing John what it represented, taking him to another time and place in the future. So you have a vision within a vision. I would even go as far to say that the Four Horseman are already in action and represent the beginning of sorrows.
The Antichrist is in charge yet has not been revealed. When Israel is attacked in a major war, then we will know who is behind it.
Tisha B'Av is in two days. On that day in Jewish history, many major catastrophes happenned: two Temples destroyed, Jews slaughtered or expelled from several nations ... a long list. Even the Holocaust began on or near that date. This of course is not coincidence, God ordained this "Day of Punishments/ disasters way back in Exodus.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes I believe Jesus _ after He as ended into heaven _ was then given the scroll and He opened the seals. It was a written document (spiritual in the heavens, like a play book), plans to be carried out in the future. Why do I say this? Because after each seal is opened, the angel says " "come and see ...", showing John what it represented, taking him to another time and place in the future. So you have a vision within a vision. I would even go as far to say that the Four Horseman are already in action and represent the beginning of sorrows.
The Antichrist is in charge yet has not been revealed. When Israel is attacked in a major war, then we will know who is behind it.
Tisha B'Av is in two days. On that day in Jewish history, many major catastrophes happenned: two Temples destroyed, Jews slaughtered or expelled from several nations ... a long list. Even the Holocaust began on or near that date. This of course is not coincidence, God ordained this "Day of Punishments/ disasters way back in Exodus.

Hi Ronald,

What you believe doesn't bother me, just would like to suggest that I could be wrong about the viewpoint but it sounds like either spiritualism, or idealism concerning the revelation, with a mix of futurism.

There is nothing wrong with your viewpoint as it is subjective to you personally.

 

[rwb]

Answers:

1. Both Daniel and Paul and even Jesus only eluded to the time of the so called rapture. Paul was most revealing, saying "but each one in his own order."
2. Jesus did not lie, but only eluded to what is true. But it is a play on words--a question which few even consider: When is it in everyone's life that know one but the Father knows-- what date(s) qualify? There are only two, and only one after one is born.
3. Jesus did not give the apostles a time or date. Again, He only eluded to what is true of "each one in his own order" which only the Father knows.
4. "Pre", "post", "mid", whatever--they're all wrong. But wrong is not a sin, simply a human condition for which we need a Savior...and we have One. However, indeed many who are wrong will not receive "eternal condemnation." But because many preferred to believe a "lie", "there will be weeping and gnashing."

When Paul writes, "but each one in his own order" he is NOT speaking of the rapture of our bodies in an hour coming, when the last trump sounds, when Christ returns. Paul is speaking of the raising of the dead in Christ after their bodies have died. The instruction from Paul regarding those who had already died before Christ came begins in 1Cor 15:12. He says Christ has been raised from the dead which proves the dead IN CHRIST, though physically dead are not spiritually dead. They are alive because Christ has defeated death, and all who die in Him will spiritually ascend to heaven where Christ is. For this reason Paul says, "but each one in his own order." That's why those who had already died believing in Christ have not perished, because since Christ is the sacrifice for sin, and by His resurrection He defeated death, death is no more for whosoever is of faith in Him.

Scripture is abundantly clear that believers shall suffer in this life. And this is associated with the proclamation of the Gospel being sent unto all the nations of the world. It is "AFTER" the tribulation of all the days that have come and shall come as the Gospel is preached that Christ will return again, and even though we don't know when that day shall be, every eye shall Him when He comes to make all things new again.