I have noticed the following Negatives about the 'rapture'...

[David in NJ]

Elohim is used for YHWH but also used for other "Spiritual Beings" such as the Divine Council. This word unquestionably is also used in the plural apart from referring to YHWH.

It is a logical fallacy to say God can only be physical or spiritual. He can and is both according the the whole account of Scripture.

How did Christ decend If not first divine?

He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Ephesians 4:10 ESV

How did Jesus resurrect from the dead If not Human?

If we have this corrupt perishable body can it inherit the spiritual, physical and eternal?

2 Cor 12:2
If heaven is not physical, how could Paul have been in heaven in the body?

Rev 21:2
If Heaven is not physical, how could the physical new Jerusalem come down from heaven?

Rev 21:3
If God is not physical, how does He dwell with humanity?

Dan 7:13-14
If heaven is not physical, how do you explain a physical resurrected Jesus sitting at the right hand of God in heaven.

Rev 22:5
If God is not Physical, how is He the light for the people.

Gen 1:1
If heaven is not physical in what way was it created?

If it was not created why does Genesis 1:1 say otherwise?

In the Hebrew mind, why were the stars representative of those Elohim?

If not physical, how did the deceiver or the "sons of God" of Genesis 6 manifest physically?

Exodus 33
How did YHWH present Himself physically if He indeed is not physical?

Jude 1:9
If not physical, how do you explain the contending for Moses body by two elohim?

All the testimonials of Heaven in scripture describe a very physical place. How do you maintain a consistent hermeneutic and say it is not a physical place?

You said: "If not physical, how did the deceiver or the "sons of God" of Genesis 6 manifest physically?"

You said: "Exodus 33 - How did YHWH present Himself physically if He indeed is not physical?"

God is Spirit and flesh is flesh

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

Spirit can live inside a flesh body but a flesh body cannot live inside a Spirit.

 

[David in NJ]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d

i am still waiting for the scripture that declares any of the following:

a.) Christ will pre-trib rapture the Church BEFORE His Second Coming

b.) Christ descends from Heaven BEFORE the Antichrist

c.) Christ, the Apostles or Revelation quoting 7 years.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d

i am still waiting for the scripture that declares any of the following:

a.) Christ will pre-trib rapture the Church BEFORE His Second Coming

b.) Christ descends from Heaven BEFORE the Antichrist

c.) Christ, the Apostles or Revelation quoting 7 years.

Yes, I know but it ain't gonna happen, brother.
There is nothing pre- trib but the lie of John Darby and those that took up his mantle holding to such heresy.

 

[InfamousBerean]

Then post a postrib rapture verse.

Ok any postribber. Post me a verse.

A solid building that stands the storm must be built on a solid and firm foundation.

A diplomat in a country must speak the language of the host nation, understanding the words with a shared meaning. When two have a different meaning for the same word, if not many words, then communication breaks down.

Consider this assessment and let us reason together:

 

[David in NJ]

A solid building that stands the storm must be built on a solid and firm foundation.

A diplomat in a country must speak the language of the host nation, understanding the words with a shared meaning. When two have a different meaning for the same word, if not many words, then communication breaks down.

Consider this assessment and let us reason together:

View attachment 34858

Your add-on is unreadable
Can you enlarge it?

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, I know but it ain't gonna happen, brother.
There is nothing pre- trib but the lie of John Darby and those that took up his mantle holding to such heresy.

Make no mistake, pre-trib is a heresy for it directly contradicts the OT Prophets, JESUS own words and the words of the Apostles.

Contradiction of God's words should sound off ALARMS within our spirit.

 

[David in NJ]

A solid building that stands the storm must be built on a solid and firm foundation.

A diplomat in a country must speak the language of the host nation, understanding the words with a shared meaning. When two have a different meaning for the same word, if not many words, then communication breaks down.

Consider this assessment and let us reason together:

OK, the Document finally came up readable.

This document begins with a foundation of corruption = man's words opposing God's words = Tim LeHay

@InfamousBerean, are you able to discern the same Truth in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Cor ch15 ???

1 Thess 4:13-18 & 1 Cor ch15 is the Second Coming of Christ and ONLY agrees with OT Prophets, Gospel and the Apostles

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And so we will always be with the Lord.
18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[David in NJ]

A solid building that stands the storm must be built on a solid and firm foundation.

A diplomat in a country must speak the language of the host nation, understanding the words with a shared meaning. When two have a different meaning for the same word, if not many words, then communication breaks down.

Consider this assessment and let us reason together:

Good Article

 

[MatthewG]

A very interesting read, and really cheap. Easy to read, kind of repeats a little bit but repetition helps retain in memory.

Amazon.com

A comment from 2022,

Isn’t truth usually simple?
Reviewed in the United States on May 7, 2022
Verified Purchase
I love the simplicity put forth here on this major topic. It makes so much sense. The author is so humble yet so direct. Hope deferred makes the heart sick. Jesus coming has already taken place when and how Jesus said it would.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Since 2021 no one has been able to bring forth a single 'pre-trib rapture' decaration and/or OT prophecy.

Precious friend, there is no OT prophecy of a pre-trib rapture. It is in God's Revelation Of The Mystery!

i am still waiting for the scripture that declares any of the following:

a.) Christ will pre-trib rapture the Church BEFORE His Second Coming

We have already done this several times since June 21, 2022, and yet there is ZERO response?

Why is that? So the critics can continue with stuff like this?:

"pre-trib is falsehood/heresy/human conjecture, throw it ( 17-part Bible study with Dozens Of
Scriptures, Rightly Divided ) into the circular bin, it is a lie from the pits of hell, pre-fibbers
are just looking to draw the unsuspecting in to their deception." etc, etc. etc.

How are such comments and name-calling an open, honest, and encouraging discussion/debate
to point us to The Truth of The Holy Spirit, and abiding by Bible study Rules? Or should I just
toss them into the circular bin also?

Thus at this late date of July 23, 2023, we believe it ( God's Great Grace Departure! ) is still True,
having not been Corrected by an open, honest, and encouraging discussion/debate, Yes?

Continuing to pray for critics with ( as Precious brother, @marks says ): "MUCH love!"

Amen.

 

[David in NJ]

Precious friend, there is no OT prophecy of a pre-trib rapture. It is in God's Revelation Of The Mystery!

We have already done this several times since June 21, 2022, and yet there is ZERO response?

Why is that? So the critics can continue with stuff like this?:

"pre-trib is falsehood/heresy/human conjecture, throw it (17-part Bible study with Dozens Of Scriptures, Rightly Divided ) into the circular bin, it is a lie from the pits of hell, pre-fibbers are
just looking to draw the unsuspecting in to their deception." etc, etc. etc.

How are such comments and name-calling an open, honest, and encouraging discussion/debate to point us to The Truth of The Holy Spirit, and abiding by Bible study Rules? Or should I just toss them into the circular bin also?

Thus at this late date of July 23, 2023, we believe it ( God's Great GRACE Departure! ) is still True, having not been Corrected by and open, honest, and encouraging discussion/debate, Yes?

Continuing to pray for critics, and, as Precious brother, @marks says: "MUCH love!"

Amen.

my Brother @GRACE ambassador,
i have studied God's Word for nearly 40 years and i have looked at every scripture for the supposed 'pre-trib' rapture

pre-trib has not a single scripture to stand on

pre-trib contradicts God's direct statements on His Second Coming

pre-trib contradicts direct statements from the LORD Jesus Christ

pre-trib contradicts direct statements from the Apostles

pre-trib directly contradicts OT Prophecy

There is no pre-trib declaration or prophecy in the entire Scriptures = THIS should be your RED FLAG ALERT

What the LORD JESUS commands us is the SAME for all of us = Psalm 51:6 , John ch17 , 1 Cor ch1

You, @marks @rebuilder 454 are my Brothers in Christ and i want the BEST for my Brothers and Sisters

We as the FAMILY of God in Christ need to stick TOGETHER with the Eternal Glue of TRUTH

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Acts tells us why there are so many views.

Logic tells us there should not be many views.

Wisdom seeks to discover the correct view.

Truth validates the One View.

Daniel 12 tells us certain things about the end times that are to be sealed up ...
The Bible says we have blurry vision, that the mystery of God would be revealed at the 7th Tumpet.
No one knows the day of hour.
Revelation is not a straight forward prophetic series of events easily understood. After 30 years, It's still perplexing. The order of events is not easily discerned. Revelation is like a transparent, multi-dimensiinal sphere of events that overlap. When you turn the sphere, you see different vantage points of things happening at the same time.

 

[David in NJ]

Precious friend, there is no OT prophecy of a pre-trib rapture. It is in God's Revelation Of The Mystery!

We have already done this several times since June 21, 2022, and yet there is ZERO response?

Why is that? So the critics can continue with stuff like this?:

"pre-trib is falsehood/heresy/human conjecture, throw it ( 17-part Bible study with Dozens Of
Scriptures, Rightly Divided ) into the circular bin, it is a lie from the pits of hell, pre-fibbers
are just looking to draw the unsuspecting in to their deception." etc, etc. etc.

How are such comments and name-calling an open, honest, and encouraging discussion/debate
to point us to The Truth of The Holy Spirit, and abiding by Bible study Rules? Or should I just
toss them into the circular bin also?

Thus at this late date of July 23, 2023, we believe it ( God's Great Grace Departure! ) is still True,
having not been Corrected by an open, honest, and encouraging discussion/debate, Yes?

Continuing to pray for critics with ( as Precious brother, @marks says ): "MUCH love!"

Amen.

You said: "Precious friend, there is no OT prophecy of a pre-trib rapture. It is in God's Revelation Of The Mystery!"

The Mystery of God is recorded in the OT.

The Mystery of God is not the 'rapture'.

OT Mystery of God is Part 1 = "Isaiah 9:6 = "the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us" = Salvation

OT Mystery of God is Part 2 = the RESURRECTION = Psalm 16:9-11

OT Mystery of God is Part 3 = "Christ in you the Hope of Glory" = Genesis

OT Mystery of God is Part 4 = "the Promise of the Father" =

Daniel 12 tells us certain things about the end times that are to be sealed up ...
The Bible says we have blurry vision, that the mystery of God would be revealed at the 7th Tumpet.
No one knows the day of hour.
Revelation is not a straight forward prophetic series of events easily understood. After 30 years, It's still perplexing. The order of events is not easily discerned. Revelation is like a transparent, multi-dimensiinal sphere of events that overlap. When you turn the sphere, you see different vantage points of things happening at the same time.

Thank You Brother = Good stuff(truth) you posted

Daniel 12:9 - "And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end."

Daniel ch12 was unsealed for us by the LORD in the Gospel, by the Apostles and by Revelation

1 John 2:18 - "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming(Daniel ch9) , even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

 

[David in NJ]

Precious friend, there is no OT prophecy of a pre-trib rapture. It is in God's Revelation Of The Mystery!

We have already done this several times since June 21, 2022, and yet there is ZERO response?

Why is that? So the critics can continue with stuff like this?:

"pre-trib is falsehood/heresy/human conjecture, throw it ( 17-part Bible study with Dozens Of
Scriptures, Rightly Divided ) into the circular bin, it is a lie from the pits of hell, pre-fibbers
are just looking to draw the unsuspecting in to their deception." etc, etc. etc.

How are such comments and name-calling an open, honest, and encouraging discussion/debate
to point us to The Truth of The Holy Spirit, and abiding by Bible study Rules? Or should I just
toss them into the circular bin also?

Thus at this late date of July 23, 2023, we believe it ( God's Great Grace Departure! ) is still True,
having not been Corrected by an open, honest, and encouraging discussion/debate, Yes?

Continuing to pray for critics with ( as Precious brother, @marks says ): "MUCH love!"

Amen.

You said: "Precious friend, there is no OT prophecy of a pre-trib rapture. It is in God's Revelation Of The Mystery!"

The Mystery of God is recorded in the OT.

The Mystery of God is not the 'rapture'.

OT Mystery of God is Part 1 = "Isaiah 9:6 = "the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us" = Salvation

OT Mystery of God is Part 2 = the RESURRECTION = Psalm 16:9-11

OT Mystery of God is Part 3 = "Christ in you the Hope of Glory" = Genesis

OT Mystery of God is Part 4 = "the Promise of the Father" = Jeremiah 31:31-34 , Isaiah ch44 , Joel

OT Mystery of God Part 5 = i have to go now

 

[David in NJ]

Daniel 12 tells us certain things about the end times that are to be sealed up ...
The Bible says we have blurry vision, that the mystery of God would be revealed at the 7th Tumpet.
No one knows the day of hour.
Revelation is not a straight forward prophetic series of events easily understood. After 30 years, It's still perplexing. The order of events is not easily discerned. Revelation is like a transparent, multi-dimensiinal sphere of events that overlap. When you turn the sphere, you see different vantage points of things happening at the same time.

Thank You Brother = Good stuff(truth) you posted

Daniel 12:9 - "And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end."

Daniel ch12 was unsealed for us by the LORD in the Gospel, by the Apostles and by Revelation

1 John 2:18 - "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming(Daniel ch9) , even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

 

[MatthewG]

@GRACE ambassador

I thought that the mystery was that Yahava, would include the Gentile nations among the new Heavenly Jerusalem. Because of the Nation of Israel rejecting the Son of God, there judgement would be material and first.

 

[MatthewG]

@GRACE ambassador

I thought that the mystery was that Yahava, would include the Gentile nations among the new Heavenly Jerusalem. Because of the Nation of Israel rejecting the Son of God, there judgement would be material and first.

Paul wrote to Colossians; and in the introduction of the first Chapter.

Colossians 1:26-29

26 the [a]mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: [b]which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.

I doubt it has anything to do with the 'great and dreadful day of the Lord'.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

You said: "Precious friend, there is no OT prophecy of a pre-trib rapture. It is in God's Revelation Of The Mystery!"

The Mystery of God is recorded in the OT.

It is? Or is our Precious brother Matthew onto something?:

26 the [a]Mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this Mystery among the Gentiles: [b]which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Amen!

 

[InfamousBerean]

OK, the Document finally came up readable.

This document begins with a foundation of corruption = man's words opposing God's words = Tim LeHay

@InfamousBerean, are you able to discern the same Truth in 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Cor ch15 ???

1 Thess 4:13-18 & 1 Cor ch15 is the Second Coming of Christ and ONLY agrees with OT Prophets, Gospel and the Apostles

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And so we will always be with the Lord.
18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

And Paul says by word of the Lord. Either he had a revelation or it was the word of Jesus on the Mount of Olives. While it is most definitely possible that he could have had a divine revelation, and it says "We declare" meaning it would have been a collective divine revelation, it is more likely and responsible to attribute this as referring to Jesus' account of the end times at the mount of olives.

Paul had conversations with the Apostles first hand so he likely recieve several versions of the account providing some untold detail from the Gospels and Jesus also may have spoken on other occasions with His disciples having not been recorded. The simplest and most reasonable method of interpretation is that Paul is speaking of the account of Jesus' return given at the mount of Olives and recorded in Mathew 24-25.

The biggest question is is there any statements in this account preventing it from possibly being the same event?

 

[David in NJ]

It is? Or is our Precious brother Matthew onto something?:

Amen!

Hidden in the Scriptures