Is Obedience a Condition of Salvation?
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Keiw
Well-Known Member
You probably still believe many of their false teachings. Do you serve their God?
John 15,
And Jesus continued and said: (probably talking to his chosen apostles), gotta go back to 14 to find out for sure. Remember how he walked along the way said and called out for peter, john, andrew, matthew, it seems he chose them. (Could be wrong but ya gotta think and consider context).
“I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more.
You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you.
For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.
Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers.
Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
This brings great glory to my Father. “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me.
Remain in my love. When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.
I have told you these things so that you will be filled with my joy. Yes, your joy will overflow! This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you.
There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you slaves, because a master doesn’t confide in his slaves.
Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me. You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name. This is my command: Love each other.”
John 15:1-17 NLT
And Jesus continued and said: (probably talking to his chosen apostles), gotta go back to 14 to find out for sure. Remember how he walked along the way said and called out for peter, john, andrew, matthew, it seems he chose them. (Could be wrong but ya gotta think and consider context).
“I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more.
You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you.
For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.
Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers.
Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
This brings great glory to my Father. “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me.
Remain in my love. When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.
I have told you these things so that you will be filled with my joy. Yes, your joy will overflow! This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you.
There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you slaves, because a master doesn’t confide in his slaves.
Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me. You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name. This is my command: Love each other.”
John 15:1-17 NLT
John 15:1-17 “I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You | New Living Translation (NLT) | Dow
“I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You
bible.com
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
"their" God? I am independent in my doctrines based only on the Bible, not on any man's theology.
What are you? JW?
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Yes. There is no independence from Gods will. One must be taught by these-Matt 24:45--No one can understand many things without being taught by those.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I didn't say anything about independence from God's will, but from MAN'S! God's Scripture only has ONE interpretation and that is what I seek to know.
According to Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
How shall many be made righteous ?
As I have grown older I have come to see what matters is seeing others needs and where they are, and finding a way to help and support.
It is hard to love others, especially when it is so easy to lash out at others when upset or overwhelmed.
It strikes me this is where Jesus calls us to be, uplifting others and ministering His love. Sin in all its forms stops this, makes it destructive and hurtful. After being hurt deeply by another, I have come to see the pain and anguish they live under with deep grudges and an expectation of unconditional love which is absurd and wrong. So I can withdraw and wait to see if this individual can reach a place of peace and stability before I pile in with my good intentions. I have experienced what patience and change can bring, a mutual coming together to build something new, but it has to be given by both parties. So now I wait until the other party is ready to talk, rather than project my expectations on them.
In this real world sinless perfection seems to be self flattery and a miss-understanding of our walk.
The law for me is very important as it proclaims some foundational principles, balancing out genetic and development problems alongside Holiness and acceptance. We are fallen creatures with weaknesses that will never be resolved until we are transformed into new bodies. We are not perfectly created, but perfectly known. A large tradition within christianity we are all the same in disposition and likelyhood to sin. This is clearly not true, as some have serious empathy and anger issues while others love social contact and reaching out to others.
The law gives us a reference point, which helps us to emotionally set expectations, and also obligations of others. Mercy, faithfulness and justice are key issues we must follow, to know Gods heart and will. Pretending to be ok and being obedient also is failure. It is truth that sets us free.
God bless you
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am with you up until your last comment.
The law is weak, in that it can not show us how good or how bad we are. only that we have sinned, that was its purpose.
Jesus explained this in the sermon on the mount.
The law says, but I tell you..
the problem with those who follow the law is most times they are looking to the letter. and they see they are pretty good people.. if they would get away from the letter. and see how well they love. they would realize quickly they are not as good as they think they are.
As you said, some people are hard to love, I see some days that are hard to love anyone.. I get stuck in self and how bad things are instead of looking at how good things are in spite of the issues..
it takes a lifetime to learn to love as God loves and even then we will not be perfect.
Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Great passage, so please answer me this:
According to Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
How shall many be made righteous ?
Keiw
Well-Known Member
The New world translation, put Gods name back where he willed it to be and corrected the errors. The blind guides condemned it. Otherwise here in these last days this couldn't be truth-Daniel 12:4
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Bible does not teach God is Omniscient. Did you miss the events of Eden? God gave all free will, free will to choose to love him by obeying him. Or vica versa.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
I told you. Jesus' sacrafice opened the door to all men. They must enter the narrow gate, they must repent and turn around. they must get baptized, they must live now to do Jesus' Fathers will over self. Have works that build up a strong living faith. Love God and their neighbor.-That all comes about once taught by these-Matt 24:45--the only ones Jesus is with. 1 single religion-1Cor 1:10)
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Why in the newest revision of the New World Translation did they remove words? What words were they?
- Status
Similar threads
