The 144,000 before God at the end.

[The Light]

Armageddon isn't over at the 7th trump. It doesn't even start until after the 6th vial pours.

Ok. So you have decided that this verse means nothing. Nothing to see here. Let's pretend it isn't here.
Revelation 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Now let's pretend like when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, that doesn't mean Christ has set up His kingdom of earth. It means nothing. Just a bunch words that we can skip over and pretend that they are not there.
Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Now let's pretend like judgement does not happen. Okay let's just skip these verses and pretend they happen after the vials. And guess what, they do happen after the vials as the vials are just a different view of Gods wrath. But we can skip these verses and pretend that Christ has not set up His kingdom on earth, which means Armageddon is over, and let's forget about the judgement that happens at the end after the 7th trumpet sounds.
Revelation 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I'm not sure why you cannot see these things. Some see, some don't. That's all I can come up with. It's like the Jews that are blinded from seeing Christ is Messiah. The verses clearly let us know that Christ has set up His kingdom on earth at the 7th trumpet.

No, he does no such thing. The seal only describes his future coming and no harvest is mentioned because the seal only describes what the unsaved see and feel. You are adding to the seal what the seal does not speak of.

When that 6th seal is opened, the event HAPPENS. So the seal only describes his future coming. However, when the seal is opened, the EVENT HAPPENS.

Jesus returns at the sixth seal for a harvest as MARKED BY SIGNS OF THE SUN, MOON AND STARS

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The harvest is also seen here.
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

If you would just get yourself out of the way and read what the Word says. It's over after the 7th trumpet sounds. The end. Story is finished as to the wrath of God. When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the timeframe of the seals. When you are reading Revelation 15 and 16 you are back in the timeframe of the vials. Revelation 6 reads like Genesis 7.

Just get out of the way and read with understanding. It all fits perfectly together perfectly, if you just let it.

 

[The Light]

This is the very thing that's burning me out on this forum, way too many unbelievers. Who read a passage, can't fit it into their ideas, and then find a way to understand it but not by what it says, but by making it something else.

I'm seeing this all over the forum.

Much love!

This is why there are 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins. The foolish cannot accept the written Word of God. God has a beautiful plan. He proclaims it in His word. Why people find the need to change the Word of God to fit their doctrine is beyond my level of understanding. It's foolishness.

Don't get burnt out as there may be young believers that need to hear the truth. The time runs short. Soon the covenant will be signed and the 70th week will begin. Do not get weary. This is the time to get ready as the bride has made herself ready.

 

[marks]

Don't get burnt out as there may be young believers that need to hear the truth. The time runs short.

Yes.

So true!

I just need to be selective about who I respond to.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

This is the very thing that's burning me out on this forum, way too many unbelievers. Who read a passage, can't fit it into their ideas, and then find a way to understand it but not by what it says, but by making it something else.

I'm seeing this all over the forum.

Much love!

You mean like when they also try and say when JOHN was caught up that represents the rapture .
Cause paul was caught up too ya know . pre trib does exactly this in several places .
But it aint just pre tribbers that do it . MANY DO IT .
A well known pre tribber , who though i dont agree with all that he teaches either
Was and is honest enough to admit THERE IS NO PLACE in the bible where PRE TRIB can be found .

 

[marks]

You mean like when they also try and say when JOHN was caught up that represents the rapture .
Cause paul was caught up too ya know . pre trib does exactly this in several places .
But it aint just pre tribbers that do it . MANY DO IT .
A well known pre tribber , who though i dont agree with all that he teaches either
Was and is honest enough to admit THERE IS NO PLACE in the bible where PRE TRIB can be found .

There is no explicit rapture timing statement anywhere in the Bible. Do you realize that? Not pre-trib, not post trib, not pre-wrath, nothing! Not a single one.

Can we ALL be honest about that?

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes.

So true!

I just need to be selective about who I respond to.

Much love!

The number one person i can personally think of that gets put on ignore and it aint cause he is mean
IS this lamb . Now we do have to ask ourselves some questions . How come many folks
can sit and entertain those that even attack THEM and name call and yet when i just bring simple reminders
THEY put me so fast on ignore it would make heads spin . Now i already know the answer .
My question to you is , WHY do you THINK so many are so fast to ignore me or put me on ignore .
NOW have i ever called you a harsh name or made fun of you or your english .
SO dont think its cause i a mean . Think deeper mark .
Ponder real deeply why i am put on ignore so fast by so many .
And then remember these words , I SHALL GIVE You a mouth that ...............
Folks no likey what i say cause they aint got the words to defend . It makes them VERY , VERY UNCOMFORTABLE
they no likey the simply reminders . NOW i aint even talking about pre trib stuff or mid or post .
I am talking when i make simple reminders like THERE IS SUCH a thing as a false wordly love verses a TRUE agape love
and that SATAN HIMSELF can quoate the scrips . YET TWISTS THEM .

 

[amigo de christo]

There is no explicit rapture timing statement anywhere in the Bible. Do you realize that? Not pre-trib, not post trib, not pre-wrath, nothing! Not a single one.

Can we ALL be honest about that?

Much love!

You BETTER BELIEVE IT . Now you might want to ask youself a question .
IF i dont even follow pre trib , BUT YES I DO BELIEVE IN A RAPTURE , and yet
I SAY and cry ALOUD that the COMING OF JESUS DRAWS BIG TIME NIGH .
WHY DO I SAY THIS .

 

[covenantee]

No, there is plenty of doubt about it.

This is the very thing that's burning me out

Since you can't understand it, just leave it for those who can.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The heavens must receive him UNTIL the restitution which interpreted is restoration of all things. How can he leave heaven, where he is now, if God says he can’t until such a time? Is God a liar? No.

Is the restoration of all things before the tribulation or after? After.

Then how can a standard pre-tb theory state that we are raptured before if he can’t leave heaven till after?

Otherwise, if pre-tb was right and Acts 3:21 is right, that would mean the time to restore and Christ leaving heaven would have to happen before the seals. That would imply there’s no 7 year tribulation because for there to be restoration, there cannot exist those things needed to be removed.

In the pretrib rapture the bridegroom comes for the bride.
he meets the bride in the air and they go back to the father's house where he has built Mansions prepared for his bride.
in Revelation 14 the Jews are gathered.
the 144k are first fruits then main Harvest of Jews during the tribulation.
In neither case does Jesus touch the Earth, as is vividly portrayed in Matthew 25 with the 10 virgin parable.
Vividly portrayed .

...so to think that the second coming on horses, is the same as Revelation 14 where Jesus never touches earth in that gathering , and the Rapture of the Church of first Thessalonians 4, ( where you guys insert magically a billion horses) is a Grand Canyon leap but I will leave to the extra biblical Scholars.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Rounds flying down range . Flood this place with all biblical truth . The hour grows late david .
And what i say to you i say to all , the harlot has infiltrated all places through the guise of a trogan peace n love horse .
yeah , the gates have been infiltrated big time while men slept under the shade of a peace offering of a trogan horse .
Contend for the true faith till the last breath my friend .

Biblical truth.
I challenge all pretrib opposition to post a verse pointing to a made up postrib rapture.
Neither you nor anyone can.

 

[amigo de christo]

Biblical truth.
I challenge all pretrib opposition to post a verse pointing to a made up postrib rapture.
Neither you nor anyone can.

Nor is there one proving a pre trib . BINGO . THIS IS what i keep trying to tell folks .
TIME FOR US to just get back into the bible and stop heeding men .
IF you do that for yourself the conclusion is , THERE IS ONLY ONE COMING OF JESUS
the first one already occured . THERE AINT a secrete rapture and then seven years later HE COMETH again .
NO tis ONE EVENT . THAT i can PROVE BIG TIME .
ALSO do read that the beast cometh against the saints , NOT THE LEFT BEHIND , THE SAINTS PARD .
I have zero problem with men abandoning ALL THREE TRIBS , cause all three i have FOUND ERRORS within them .
NOw it is true there is a rapture . THAT IT HIS SECOND COMING
and at that TIME the world that persecuted us and resisted HIM IS GOING UNDER HIS WRATH
that would include the BEAST , THE FP and all who followed it . PS , ITS ALREADY HERE .
the mystery of inquity IS ALREADY HERE , it has been JUST as the SPIRIT of anti christ HAS BEEN .
WE MUCH farther along than folks realize and its TIME we realize THAT fact too .

 

[rebuilder 454]

Good Morning,

i just escaped 'tribulation' last night = all praise to the LORD Jesus

Dodging flying scorpions.
You have never experienced the great trib
That is made up by men.
The AC kills all refusing the mark.
Only the 144k are sealed against the flying scorpions.
All believers are martyred.
Early in the trib we see billions of believers killed.
Martyred.
Beleivers.
A sea of believers so great they can not be martyred.
But that does not fit your doctrine.
There is no postrib rapture.
Men made that up.
You guys picture yourself running from cave to cave with the Antichrist and his henchmen hot on your heels and you think that God is going to protect you but billions get martyred.
billions.
a sea of people martyred by the Antichrist in heaven they died .
but you and about 10 other people are they only ones that escaped right?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Nor is there one proving a pre trib . BINGO . THIS IS what i keep trying to tell folks .
TIME FOR US to just get back into the bible and stop heeding men .
IF you do that for yourself the conclusion is , THERE IS ONLY ONE COMING OF JESUS
the first one already occured . THERE AINT a secrete rapture and then seven years later HE COMETH again .
NO tis ONE EVENT . THAT i can PROVE BIG TIME .
ALSO do read that the beast cometh against the saints , NOT THE LEFT BEHIND , THE SAINTS PARD .
I have zero problem with men abandoning ALL THREE TRIBS , cause all three i have FOUND ERRORS within them .
NOw it is true there is a rapture . THAT IT HIS SECOND COMING
and at that TIME the world that persecuted us and resisted HIM IS GOING UNDER HIS WRATH
that would include the BEAST , THE FP and all who followed it . PS , ITS ALREADY HERE .
the mystery of inquity IS ALREADY HERE , it has been JUST as the SPIRIT of anti christ HAS BEEN .
WE MUCH farther along than folks realize and its TIME we realize THAT fact too .

You are anti pretrib rapture.
You dont know the postrib rapture doctrine.
All you know is pretrib rapture can not be right.
You do not have any verses.
About all you do when challenged is repeat the same challenge.
You guys are so embarrassed.
Otherwise you would be proud of your doctrine and convince me to join your side.
You cant, because you have no verses.

Post one verse.
Show me i am wrong.

 

[The Light]

Since you can't understand it, just leave it for those who can.

Oh we understand it.

What we don't understand is why the foolish virgins change the Word of God to fit their doctrine. Makes no sense.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The word says Heaven must receive him UNTIL. If that were true, it could not say "must recieve him Until" which it does.

he came to paul and john.
So that fails what you are insinuating

 

[amigo de christo]

You are anti pretrib rapture.
You dont know the postrib rapture doctrine.
All you know is pretrib rapture can not be right.
You do not have any verses.
About all you do when challenged is repeat the same challenge.
You guys are so embarrassed.
Otherwise you would be proud of your doctrine and convince me to join your side.
You cant, because you have no verses.

Post one verse.
Show me i am wrong.

I know all three trib teachings my friend . all three contain truths and all three contain errors .
You be assuming things pardner . no worries though , we have all done that before .
Now listen to the clear message of what i am saying .
JUST DO THIS . GET Back in the BIBLE FOR YOURSELF . dont read it through ANY trib teachings mindset .
READ IT FOR YOU . i say that to many other teachings too like OSAS or etc .
TIME WE BIBLE UP FOR OURSELVES pardner . YOU DO THAT , give it some time cause you aint gonna know it in a day
but just read and love that bible and you WATCH what GOD DOES FOR YOU . But keep under the teachings of men
and do beware . and beware big time too . TIME to open bibles for ourselves . DO it . like the ol commercial once said
JUST DO IT . do it FOR YOU .

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is the fact that most miss. As you say, the 144,000 are first fruits. That means that there will be a harvest.
Therefore, the 144,000 are not the Church and the 144,000 are not all of Israel. They are EXACTLY what the Word says they are........first fruits. And that means that there will be a harvest and that harvest is seen in Revelation 6, Matthew 24 and Revelation 14.

Nope
Firstfruit JEWS.
I know the facts destroy doctrine.

Thak you Jesus for your word.

 

[David in NJ]

Dodging flying scorpions.
You have never experienced the great trib
That is made up by men.
The AC kills all refusing the mark.
Only the 144k are sealed against the flying scorpions.
All believers are martyred.
Early in the trib we see billions of believers killed.
Martyred.
Beleivers.
A sea of believers so great they can not be martyred.
But that does not fit your doctrine.
There is no postrib rapture.
Men made that up.
You guys picture yourself running from cave to cave with the Antichrist and his henchmen hot on your heels and you think that God is going to protect you but billions get martyred.
billions.
a sea of people martyred by the Antichrist in heaven they died .
but you and about 10 other people are they only ones that escaped right?

"Early in the trib we see billions of believers killed.
Martyred.
Beleivers."

i see that you are finally coming around to Post-Trib Truth

 

[rebuilder 454]

I know all three trib teachings my friend . all three contain truths and all three contain errors .
You be assuming things pardner . no worries though , we have all done that before .
Now listen to the clear message of what i am saying .
JUST DO THIS . GET Back in the BIBLE FOR YOURSELF . dont read it through ANY trib teachings mindset .
READ IT FOR YOU . i say that to many other teachings too like OSAS or etc .
TIME WE BIBLE UP FOR OURSELVES pardner . YOU DO THAT , give it some time cause you aint gonna know it in a day
but just read and love that bible and you WATCH what GOD DOES FOR YOU . But keep under the teachings of men
and do beware . and beware big time too . TIME to open bibles for ourselves . DO it . like the ol commercial once said
JUST DO IT . do it FOR YOU .

Again
Post a verse.
Otherwise you are just talking in assumptions.
Show me where your doctrine gets any standing.
Should be easy for you.
I mean are you serious that you can not come up with a postrib rapture verse?

 

[rebuilder 454]

"Early in the trib we see billions of believers killed.
Martyred.
Beleivers."

i see that you are finally coming around to Post-Trib Truth

I know the postrib truth.
It is rev 19
Jesus returns with saints on billions of horses blackening the sky.
There are no postrib rapture verses.