The 144,000 before God at the end.

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The Light

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You do not have any pre-trib rapture verses, no one has.
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

If the Lord pinpointed when He was coming, He couldn't come in an hour that you think not. That is why we are to watch so we will know when He is coming.

Revelation 3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

The wise will know when He is coming. The foolish will not.
 

covenantee

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Poppycock.


Poppycock. Do some RE-search

I would believe Jesus, Paul and John.

The things you believe were born by unbelieving men from the Church of Rome --- for one Augustine. No faith that God would keep His Word. The teachings of those dressed in purple and scarlet with a gold cup their hand that will ride the beast.........soon. I think you need more than a hint as you seem clueless as to what is happening.

As for Darby, apparently a great man of faith. No nation of Israel for 1300 plus years and he says Israel will be born again, just as the Word says.

As for me, I did not know Darby or His teachings. I also had the advantage that there was a nation of Israel. Turns out what I believe agrees with the Word of God. And that of course happens to agree with what Darby proclaimed.

A wise virgin would be praying that they are worthy to escape all the things that will come to pass in the tribulation and stand before the Son of Man. A wise virgin would be loading the ark. What would a foolish virgin be doing?
Present credible evidence of poppycock from recognized expositors of the historical true Christian Church.

Names, dates, sources, verbatim quotes.

Ever heard of the true Christian Church?

It is not the the Church of Rome.

But your inability to distinguish is entirely unsurprising.
 

The Light

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There are no multiple gatherings of the Body of Christ.

If you and marks stop adding to God's word what HE did not say THEN you will SEE.

Matthew 4:4 - "But Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ 

Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
If you only knew. And yet you are blind. I wish you the best brother, but you better open your eyes and examine the source of teachings that you believe.
 
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The Light

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Present credible evidence of poppycock from recognized expositors of the historical true Christian Church.

Names, dates, sources, verbatim quotes.

Ever heard of the true Christian Church?

It is not the the Church of Rome.

But your inability to distinguish is entirely unsurprising.
There are five wise and five foolish. The foolish don't think He comes in an hour that they think not. Distinguish that.
 

covenantee

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There are five wise and five foolish. The foolish don't think He comes in an hour that they think not. Distinguish that.
The fallacies of the futurized fantasies of dispensational delusionism are a diametric contrast to the wisdom, faith, vision, and sacrifice of the historical true Church, of which we are all beneficiaries.

Tribulation exposes rapture wimps.

Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.

In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.

There was, and is, no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.

But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.

The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

...makes it clear that there is no room for rapture wimps in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.


God has promised...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.

But the promise is only for those who refuse to be rapture wimps.
 
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The Light

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The fallacies of the futurized fantasies of dispensational delusionism are a diametric contrast to the wisdom, faith, vision, and sacrifice of the historical true Church, of which we are all beneficiaries.

Tribulation exposes rapture wimps.

Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.

In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.

There was, and is, no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.

But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.

The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

...makes it clear that there is no room for rapture wimps in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.


God has promised...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.

But the promise is only for those who refuse to be rapture wimps.
That was fast. Copy and paste.
 

marks

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Do you think that the entire historical true Christian Church for 17 centuries, and the giants of the faith therein without whom there would be no true Christian Church today, did not appeal to the Bible and its wordings?

If my personal studies and interpretations agree with those of the entire historical true Christian Church for 17 centuries, but disagree with those of Darby/Scofield modernists, then the vast accumulated faith, vision, sacrifice, wisdom, discernment, and testimony of the former, which far exceeds that of the latter, compels my choice.
We are repeating.

Much love!
 

marks

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Rapture Wimpism

Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth.
I'm amazed this straw man is still being used! Of course the church knows tribulation! Maybe you don't, I don't know. Christians today are being skinned alive for their faith in Christ, you think that's not tribulation??!!

Man o man! Pray you have the faith to endure such tribulation! No matter when it comes to you!

Much love!
 
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ewq1938

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I can prove it
Rev 15
1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
DURING THE TRIB
IN HEAVEN VIA MARTYRDOM.

The bible= take the mark or die.


The bible doesn't say that nor does that passage.
 

ewq1938

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Just take the mark .
It says ALL take it.


No, it says all types take it not all people as in everyone. The 144k, the two prophets and the survivors of the trib don't take the mark.
 

ewq1938

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Revelation 3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

The wise will know when He is coming. The foolish will not.

Except that verse is speaking negatively of those Christ will surprise because they are not watching. They are not faithful saints. They will be robbed like by a thief. Perfect use of a misunderstood scripture. Next you should tell us you want to take part in the apostasia/departure.
 

covenantee

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I'm amazed this straw man is still being used! Of course the church knows tribulation! Maybe you don't, I don't know. Christians today are being skinned alive for their faith in Christ, you think that's not tribulation??!!

Man o man! Pray you have the faith to endure such tribulation! No matter when it comes to you!

Much love!
Explain how reality is straw.
 

amigo de christo

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Pretribbers are watching. Post wrathers that think they are posttribbers have no need to watch until the man of Sin is revealed.
Be watching for the SON of man cometh in an hour ye think not .
The hour approaches .
Most folks dont really take heed or pay attention to what Paul was writing .
Notice he said the man of sin would be revelead first , BUT THAT HE ALSO SAID even NOW its a work .
The one letting , doing . This whole mystery of inquity has long been at work
and the delusion to gather all as one under a lie is growing by leaps and by bounds even as we speak .
ONLY most are calling it love . They have no idea what is or what is going on RIGHT NOW .
We are farther along than most realize .
THIS is that of anti christ which ye heard SHOULD COME , EVEN NOW IS IT IN THE WORLD . john knew too .
THEY all did . Too many are looking for a seven year hollywood style anti christ and have no idea
WHAT IS ALREADY and has BEEN AT WORK .
AS i wrote a while back , I aint even pre trib and YET WHY IS IT i say the COMING OF THE LORD draws evers nigh .
CAUSE IT DO . This world is being gathered under a strong delusion , a lie that it calls LOVE that it cliams is of GOD
and its gathering all unto the day of armegeddon , its drawing many right into all out rebellion against
GOD , CHRIST and the non conforming lambs . ITS HERE , ITS HERE and on the move and has been
moving amongst the false religoins and christendom to unite all , all not in the lambs book unto the lie
which it calleth love . AND as i said so many are already under its guise . As biblical doctrine
is being replaced and hated and all for the sake of a false love that came and cometh of satan and his men .
ITS HERE BUD . my advice is let no man , woman , child , take even a step in its false unity , false love , we are one LIE .
YET MANY have already . Beware for its father is a liar and its mother a harlot . AND IT BEGAN
within christendom . And many within christendom are under its lie of what it calls love and unity . BEWARE IT .
DO BEWARE IT .
 
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amigo de christo

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Except that verse is speaking negatively of those Christ will surprise because they are not watching. They are not faithful saints. They will be robbed like by a thief. Perfect use of a misunderstood scripture. Next you should tell us you want to take part in the apostasia/departure.
many are already taking part in the great apostacy , only they are calling it LOVE and have no idea it cometh of satan .
They have no idea how late the hour is . Many , under the guise of what is being called all inclusive love , are being led
to unite as one . ONLY IT AINT UNDER GOD , its under he who desired and desires to be AS GOD .
The apostacy rages throughout the lands , throughout the false religoins , throughout even christendom
to unite a world to be as one under what it thinks is the solution . ITS A LIE that cometh of the dragon
that is being pumped unto all not in the lambs book of life . The religoins merge more and more as one
under its guise of what it calleth love , but is not love and cometh not of GOD .
Beware its voice , beware its wayward broad path , sin accepting path , its many ways to GOD path .
JESUS is being trod under foot for this love .they call love .
Sound biblical doctrine has been Trod under foot for this love they call and think is love .
Satan knows how to decieve and he knows how to quoate scrips . OH YES HE can say GOD is love
and yet all the while through this love he teaches , He leadeth all to be as one UNDER A LIE .
We better be on gaurd and we better stay in those bibles .
 
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The Light

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Be watching for the SON of man cometh in an hour ye think not .
The hour approaches .
Most folks dont really take heed or pay attention to what Paul was writing .
Notice he said the man of sin would be revelead first ,
Actually, the dead in Christ will rise first and the alive believers that remained will be caught up when the Lord himself comes. The scriptures that you are referring to regard the gathering from heaven and earth when He will send His angels to gather the elect at the 6th seal. Two different raptures. One like the days of Noah and one like the days of Lot.

BUT THAT HE ALSO SAID even NOW its a work .
The one letting , doing . This whole mystery of inquity has long been at work
and the delusion to gather all as one under a lie is growing by leaps and by bounds even as we speak .
ONLY most are calling it love . They have no idea what is or what is going on RIGHT NOW .
We are farther along than most realize .
THIS is that of anti christ which ye heard SHOULD COME , EVEN NOW IS IT IN THE WORLD . john knew too .
THEY all did .
If you understood who the beast of the sea, who was and is not, is, you would understand what was being talked about.

Too many are looking for a seven year hollywood style anti christ and have no idea
WHAT IS ALREADY and has BEEN AT WORK .
There will be a 7 year period AKA the 70th week of Daniel. It will start soon.

AS i wrote a while back , I aint even pre trib and YET WHY IS IT i say the COMING OF THE LORD draws evers nigh .
CAUSE IT DO .
You should be watching and praying that you are worthy to escape all the things that will come to pass.

This world is being gathered under a strong delusion , a lie that it calls LOVE that it cliams is of GOD
and its gathering all unto the day of armegeddon , its drawing many right into all out rebellion against
GOD , CHRIST and the non conforming lambs . ITS HERE , ITS HERE and on the move and has been
moving amongst the false religoins and christendom to unite all , all not in the lambs book unto the lie
which it calleth love . AND as i said so many are already under its guise . As biblical doctrine
is being replaced and hated and all for the sake of a false love that came and cometh of satan and his men .
ITS HERE BUD . my advice is let no man , woman , child , take even a step in its false unity , false love , we are one LIE .
YET MANY have already . Beware for its father is a liar and its mother a harlot . AND IT BEGAN
within christendom . And many within christendom are under its lie of what it calls love and unity . BEWARE IT .
DO BEWARE IT .
The lie is going to be that aliens have come when I will be Christ that comes for the Church. Haven't you noticed the sudden push about aliens being real. Total BS. The only aliens are the fallen angels.
 

David in NJ

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If you only knew. And yet you are blind. I wish you the best brother, but you better open your eyes and examine the source of teachings that you believe.
Feel free to let me know, in my posts, when and where i add or take away from God's words.

When you say 'pre-trib' rapture = you just added to God's words what HE never said.

the LORD Jesus Christ said 'post-trib' = Matthew ch24

the Prophets said 'post-trib' = Genesis, OT Daniel, Isaiah, Zechariah and more

the Apostles said 'post-trib' rapture = John , Paul , Peter
 
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