The 144,000 before God at the end.

[David in NJ]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

If the Lord pinpointed when He was coming, He couldn't come in an hour that you think not. That is why we are to watch so we will know when He is coming.

Revelation 3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

The wise will know when He is coming. The foolish will not.

Post-trib does not pin point the hour of the LORD'S Coming.

Read Matthew ch24 again as well as 1st & 2nd Thessalonians

 

[rebuilder 454]

Revelation 20:4 KJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

They were killed for the witness of Jesus and the word of God.

Revelation 13:15-17 KJV
15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

This passage attests to the same.

Both of these passage - appear to me - to connect worshiping the beast with receiving the mark.

My thinking is that everyone will be rounded up and presented to the image of the beast to worship it. Those who do are marked and released. Those who do not are beheaded. Added inducement to worship the beast is economic cancellation unless you do.

Much love!

The power of a tyrant over people is the brutality.
Forced worship.
I 100% believe the mark will come immediately.
In order to establish control the AC must be murderous and brutal but only toward Christians.
We will be labeled as the haters. We will be the only ones to stand directly in the way of the AC.

Currency will be initiated immediately and probably have the image of the AC or the Beast on it. Even the currency will be a form of worship.

Here is my take on the timing of the rapture. It's not that we will be raptured before the appearance of the Antichrist .
I believe he will appear. We alone will know he is the AC.
The dynamic of 1 thes is, "revealed" he will be revealed to believers. We will recognize him right away.
But the trib has not started at that point.
I believe we will ALL be rounded up as christians. The "haters".
Hauled into some huge facility. No roof because it is so huge. More like a compound.

The rapture will be at night.
Before the rapture it will appear we were wrong, no pretrib rapture!!!
Postribbers in their glory still despising the weak deceived pretribs.
Pretribbers so lost and broken hearted.
We will be mocked and laughed at.
Then it happens!!!
The rapture

No postribs are taken. They are the 5 foolish.
But even faithless pretribs may stay als. I don't know.
We have been informed by Gods word we will not go through the gt.
But we see so many conditions for being WORTHY.
DEAR LORD the terror, the intrigue, severe testing, of what looks like we were deceived, but it is in fact part of the rapture glory!!!!
See the unbelievable test of faith that is coming???
That is my passion.
To get the church ready for their greatest test that will blindside over half the church

I have one question for you and do answer my friend .
IF and i do mean IF , the world were to say we must take some kind of chip or tattoe
WOULD YOU TAKE IT JUST cause the rapture has not yet occured . WOULD YOU Try and convince yourself
it must be okay cause if it were the mark we would already have been raptured . Just please at least answer that .

No disciple of Christ would take the mark.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Feel free to let me know, in my posts, when and where i add or take away from God's words.

When you say 'pre-trib' rapture = you just added to God's words what HE never said.

the LORD Jesus Christ said 'post-trib' = Matthew ch24

the Prophets said 'post-trib' = Genesis, OT Daniel, Isaiah, Zechariah and more

the Apostles said 'post-trib' rapture = John , Paul , Peter

is the gathering in rev 14 the second coming on white horses?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Actually you wont . I see now what the problem is .
WHEN pre trib teaches tribulation they teach it to mean the tribulation of the beast against the saints , IS the wrath of GOD .
IT AINT . Man gonna hate us mark . the beast and satan is no lover of lambs . THEY GONNA KILL us or try too anyway .
GOD will destroy them and all who followed it on HIS DAY .
GODS wrath cometh against THOSE WHO DID NOT BELIEVE ON CHRIST , THE BEAST and all who followed it .

you take one dynamic to form the entire events.
Once you get out of that one dimension, factor in OTHER VERSES , the picture changes.
1 the bride
2 the groom
3 the gentile church
4 the covenant Jew
5 the times of the gentiles complete
6 the wedding business in heaven
7 the gathering of the Jews.

What kind of doctrine has man made up to shove all that off tge table.
Instead of telling others what they have wrong, you need to get into the word and reconcile the pretrib rapture verses you are ignoring.

 

[ewq1938]

You should be watching and praying that you are worthy to escape all the things that will come to pass.

And you should pray to understand that doesn't mean physical escape but a spiritual escape so you can BEAR the tribulation coming.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.


One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.


What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.


bear it:

G5297
??p?fe´??
hupophero¯
hoop-of-er'-o
From G5259 and G5342; to bear from underneath, that is, (figuratively) to undergo hardship: - bear, endure.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

To escape by bearing it in this context isn't to be raptured away but to be able to bear what is going to come, to undergo hardship. Christians survive the great tribulation are those who escaped in a non-physical sense, being able to bear the tribulations satan brings upon church in that time period. Jesus was also tempted by the devil and Christ escaped those temptations by being spiritually strong and able to undergo the hardship.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Five foolish pretribbers.

Pretribs are waiting for Jesus
You are waiting for the AC.
Even the foolish were waiting for Jesus.
What does that say for postribbers????

 

[ewq1938]

The rapture will be at night.
Before the rapture it will appear we were wrong, no pretrib rapture!!!
Postribbers in their glory still despising the weak deceived pretribs.
Pretribbers so lost and broken hearted.
We will be mocked and laughed at.
Then it happens!!!
The rapture

You are not Pre-trib. You describe what is known as Mid-trib. The bible places the rapture as post-trib so this is still wrong.

 

[ewq1938]

Pretribs are waiting for Jesus
You are waiting for the AC.

Actually Pre-tribs will accidentally accept the false Christ because he comes first to deceive.

Even the foolish were waiting for Jesus.
What does that say for postribbers????

That they are the only ones who are right and watch for all the signs Christ gave, which includes watching for the false Christ. You mock that but claim pre-tribbers do that also. You are teaching pure confusion not to mention the mis-identification of Pre-trib in your version being actually Mid-trib.

 

[rebuilder 454]

And you should pray to understand that doesn't mean physical escape but a spiritual escape so you can BEAR the tribulation coming.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.


One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.


What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.


bear it:

G5297
??p?fe´??
hupophero¯
hoop-of-er'-o
From G5259 and G5342; to bear from underneath, that is, (figuratively) to undergo hardship: - bear, endure.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

To escape by bearing it in this context isn't to be raptured away but to be able to bear what is going to come, to undergo hardship. Christians survive the great tribulation are those who escaped in a non-physical sense, being able to bear the tribulations satan brings upon church in that time period. Jesus was also tempted by the devil and Christ escaped those temptations by being spiritually strong and able to undergo the hardship.

Those generalities are for all believers in their walk today.

We all believe those verses that apply to today that you transformed to refer to the gt.
Your premise took you there.
What was Jesus referring to?

You are so basically off my friend.
All the apostles except John WERE BRUTALLY MURDERED BY THE DEVIL.
NO PROTECTION.
When you generalize verses you end up in confusion.

ALL
Remember that word "ALL"
ALL TAKE THE MARK...ALL
Bible = All
Postribs say no. Postribs believe in their minds the word of God magically inserts they are a different breed. They will outsmart the AC. They will run from cave to cave and live through to Go to the sky after the gt.
Made up and incubated via omission and reframing of verses

 

[ewq1938]

You are so basically off my friend.
All the apostles except John WERE BRUTALLY MURDERED BY THE DEVIL.
NO PROTECTION.

You are the one preaching a physical escape as a protection.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are not Pre-trib. You describe what is known as Mid-trib. The bible places the rapture as post-trib so this is still wrong.

The trib is AFTER the revealing.
Really?
You think when driving cross country you are mid trip after 10 minutes of driving.
AC REVEALED.
Oh wait, you think all believers are deceived and only see the devil man after what he does in the HOH?

NOW, If true, that is interesting.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are the one preaching a physical escape as a protection.

Noah, Lot , the baby Jesus.
All removed pre judgement

 

[rebuilder 454]

Actually Pre-tribs will accidentally accept the false Christ because he comes first to deceive.





That they are the only ones who are right and watch for all the signs Christ gave, which includes watching for the false Christ. You mock that but claim pre-tribbers do that also. You are teaching pure confusion not to mention the mis-identification of Pre-trib in your version being actually Mid-trib.

What you are doing is ridiculous.
You have postribber believers as superior to pretribbers.
You actually filter every comment through that prism.
Here you are, not waiting for Jesus, but the AC.
Then you bragg about your superiority as if your doctrine automatically determines that we are so weak we will automatically take the devil mark.
What a joke.

 

[Davy]

And you should pray to understand that doesn't mean physical escape but a spiritual escape so you can BEAR the tribulation coming.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.


One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.


What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.


bear it:

G5297
??p?fe´??
hupophero¯
hoop-of-er'-o
From G5259 and G5342; to bear from underneath, that is, (figuratively) to undergo hardship: - bear, endure.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

To escape by bearing it in this context isn't to be raptured away but to be able to bear what is going to come, to undergo hardship. Christians survive the great tribulation are those who escaped in a non-physical sense, being able to bear the tribulations satan brings upon church in that time period. Jesus was also tempted by the devil and Christ escaped those temptations by being spiritually strong and able to undergo the hardship.

That is probably one of the most important posts here so far.

The coming "great tribulation" event is not something Christ's faithful servants are to physically escape. Instead, Lord Jesus expects us to make a 'stand' for Him by giving a TESTIMONY by The Holy Spirit for Him.

This is why in His Olivet discourse of Mark 13 about the SIGNS of the end, He revealed that some of us will be delivered up to councils and synagogues to give that TESTIMONY against the beast by The Holy Spirit speaking through us. Jesus said to not premeditate what we will say in that hour, because it won't be us speaking, but The Holy Spirit speaking. THIS IS THE WEAPON, a SPIRITUAL WEAPON by The SPIRIT, that will begin to make Satan's beast world system start to CRUMBLE!

THAT is what Apostle Peter was talking about on Pentecost with the cloven tongue. It is purposed mainly FOR THE TRIBULATION TIME TO GIVE A TESTIMONY FOR CHRIST...

Joel 2:28-32
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
KJV

The timing of that is linked for the time of "great tribulation", because that is the time just before "the great and terrible day of the LORD", which is the LAST DAY of this world when Jesus comes to end this present world and destroy Satan's one-world beast kingdom. The cloven tongue manifesting by The Holy Spirit in Witness against the beast by Christ's servants during the great tribulation is what Peter was pointing to as Pentecost was only an example of the cloven tongue. The main show for the cloven tongue manifesting is still to come today.

 

[The Light]

Post-trib does not pin point the hour of the LORD'S Coming.

Read Matthew ch24 again as well as 1st & 2nd Thessalonians

Aren't you really post wrath?

 

[The Light]

What you are doing is ridiculous.
You have postribber believers as superior to pretribbers.
You actually filter every comment through that prism.
Here you are, not waiting for Jesus, but the AC.
Then you bragg about your superiority as if your doctrine automatically determines that we are so weak we will automatically take the devil mark.
What a joke.

Exactly. We are told to watch so we will know when He is coming. They are watching of the Antichrist.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are not Pre-trib. You describe what is known as Mid-trib. The bible places the rapture as post-trib so this is still wrong.

Is rev 14 the second coming on white horses?

 

[The Light]

And you should pray to understand that doesn't mean physical escape but a spiritual escape so you can BEAR the tribulation coming.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.


One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.


What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.

Pffffffffff.

The usual out of context nonsense. Read the next verse.

1 Corinthians 10
14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

However, some will be kept from the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world.


Revelation 3
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Why is it that all the verses that are posted to prove post wrath are taken out of context.

 

[The Light]

That is probably one of the most important posts here so far.

Why? Because you don't understand that the verses provided are COMPLETLY OUT OF CONTEXT?

The coming "great tribulation" event is not something Christ's faithful servants are to physically escape. Instead, Lord Jesus expects us to make a 'stand' for Him by giving a TESTIMONY by The Holy Spirit for Him.

Our Lord says different.
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

This is why in His Olivet discourse of Mark 13 about the SIGNS of the end, He revealed that some of us will be delivered up to councils and synagogues to give that TESTIMONY against the beast by The Holy Spirit speaking through us. Jesus said to not premeditate what we will say in that hour, because it won't be us speaking, but The Holy Spirit speaking. THIS IS THE WEAPON, a SPIRITUAL WEAPON by The SPIRIT, that will begin to make Satan's beast world system start to CRUMBLE!

Are you Jewish that you will be delivered up to a synagogue?

This message is to the Jews as the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

THAT is what Apostle Peter was talking about on Pentecost with the cloven tongue. It is purposed mainly FOR THE TRIBULATION TIME TO GIVE A TESTIMONY FOR CHRIST...

Joel 2:28-32
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
KJV

The timing of that is linked for the time of "great tribulation", because that is the time just before "the great and terrible day of the LORD", which is the LAST DAY of this world when Jesus comes to end this present world and destroy Satan's one-world beast kingdom. The cloven tongue manifesting by The Holy Spirit in Witness against the beast by Christ's servants during the great tribulation is what Peter was pointing to as Pentecost was only an example of the cloven tongue. The main show for the cloven tongue manifesting is still to come today.

And yet there is an early rain and a latter rain.

 

[David in NJ]

Aren't you really post wrath?

ABSOLUTELY NOT

"and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus our Deliverer from the wrath to come."
A.) Noah was delivered from the wrath/flood of God

"But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us,
that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
B.) Noah, like us, was warned of the coming wrath and how to escape it.