I didn't say those currently alive are symbolic. I didn't say paradise is symbolic. I said the clouds are symbolic. Now that we're clear on that, do you want to ask a different question?
Will Trump seek asylum in Israel and Build the 3rd Temple?
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I'm not changing scripture. Please don't accuse me like that. We all accept what is written (well, most of us) but we understand it differently. I can tell you why I think the clouds are symbolic, but you never asked.
I think people like to say that a thousand years is a day, because it's a convenient way to interpret something that they otherwise can't explain. It's what happens when a puzzle baffles us, and we realize that this verse here could be used to solve the puzzle. And so that's what we do. I've done it. We've all done it. There's nothing wrong with that, when that's the best we can do at the time. We just need to acknowledge that we're doing it, so that we can remain open to other explanations when they inevitably come around.
The fact is, Peter never said that the day of the Lord would last a thousand years. So I'm not denying anything that was written. I'm only denying that which was not written. I think the day of the Lord was one day, because it is called a "day", not a "millennium", and also because I believe the return of Jesus happened during 70 AD. So my understanding of the prophecy fits into a single day. Yours does not, which is why you need 2 Peter 3:8 to help you out.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Lol. So Jesus came back in 70 AD? Did every eye see Him? The Church, was just getting started back then. Jesus comes at the end of the age, when the fullness of the Gentiles has been complete ( meaning the gospel went out to every nation and tribe and then the end will come ( Matt. 24:14). The church is resurrected when Jesus returns (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thes. 4:16-17). With the exception of the Riders of Four Horses of the Apocalypse recently released, Revelation chapters 6- 22 has not happenned.
What happened in Jerusalem in 70 AD was small change compared to the Great Tribulation. Maybe a million Jews died and the town destroyed. The GT will encompass the entire world with billions of deaths. In 70 AD Jerusalem had one nation attack it. Soon we will see ten nations (Muslim) attack it and most all nations going against it. Antisemitism is growing.
The next event is likely a war in the Middle East, maybe nuclear. Iran is about ready with Russia as their ally, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Lebonon, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, and others.
We are seeing Revelation 6 unfold. The trumpets will soon blow. We are actually in the "beginning of sorrows" spoken of in Matt. 24. When you experience this Grea Tribualtuon, then you will abandon your Amillennial view, probably not till it really gets going though. The world has come to a precipice, when good and evil will battle and evil will be put down. Did that happen in 70 AD? The Millennial Kingdom will be a world of believers and worshippers of Christ, Who will be our King IN JERUSALEM.
You'll see....
I'm not voting for any of those evil men. I won't place my stamp of approval on any of them.
The Light
Well-Known Member
It's very, very likely that the Church will be raptured before the election in 2024, so I don't suspect I will be voting for any of them either.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Yes, the orthodox Jews will build their 3rd temple for the end of this world, it is Bible prophecy. The "abomination of desolation" event for the end cannot happen without it.
I do not know if Trump did anything illegal, but the deep state is squelching the opposition (conservatives) by any means possible via the judicial system. If the deep state was investigated as thoroughly and viciously as it does the conservatives, the jails would be packed. In point, Hillary Clinton and staff were never indicted.
"A hammer was used to destroy govt devices, and Hillary Clinton’s server was wiped out with a program called BleachBit, all fact checked by CNN" - @RepNancyMace
I have zero confidence in the liberal media.
Christ's resurrection was on the first day of the new week (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2, 9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1). With Christ's resurrection, the Lord's Day took the place of the Sabbath Day, as Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28: Luke 6:5). This day of rest was moved from the seventh day of the week to the first. The practice of the early church reflected this, as we see in Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2.
There are not eight days in a week, Timtofly.
Grace and peace to you.
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I'd like to know the Bible text(s) you think prophesy this, Davy. I say no, we ~ Jew and Gentile included, true Jews of God's Israel by the Spirit (Romans 2:28-29) ~ are the temple. I say, along with Paul in Ephesians 2, that all Christians are "members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord... (we) are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." As I'm sure you know, Jesus was talking about Himself when He said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" (John 2:19).
Grace and peace to you.
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There is none. Funny how Timtofly gets to pick and choose between symbolism and literalism, but also gets to chastise everyone else for understanding anything in Scripture to be symbolic and not literal, no?
Grace and peace to you, Freedm.
Thanks for using scriptural references. This gives us a starting point. Let's begin with Matthew 24:14.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Two important points I want to make here which will completely destroy your point that Matthew 24:14 proves that Jesus can not yet have returned.
1. Jesus was not speaking of the entire globe. The word he used "oikoumené" means the Roman world, not the entire globe. From Strong's : 3625 (oikouménē) literally means "the inhabited (land)." It was "originally used by the Greeks to denote the land inhabited by themselves, in contrast with barbarian countries; afterward, when the Greeks became subject to the Romans, 'the entire Roman world;' still later, for 'the whole inhabited world' " (WS, 140,141).]
2. Paul told us that the gospel had already been preached to the entire "oikoumene" in his time. So here we have scriptural proof that this requirement before Jesus' return had been fulfilled, years before 70 AD.
Here are five examples of Paul proclaiming that the gospel has already gone through the whole world.
1 Thessalonians 1:8
The Lord’s message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia—your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it,
Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world.
Romans 10:18
But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”[c]
Colossians 1:6
In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world
Colossians 1:23
This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
It can not be denied that this requirement was fulfilled in Paul's time.
Davy
Well-Known Member
The problem is World Communism... being used by the world controllers who worship Lucifer...
1958 Long-Range Soviet Strategy Against the U.S., As Recorded by ex-FBI Agent Cleon Skousen in his 1958 book The Naked Communist:
No. 15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the U.S.
(from The 45 Communist Goals - Congressional Record 1963)
The church was indeed resurrected at that time, and I'll tell you why I believe that.
First of all, I understand that there is no historical record of a one-time resurrection event that saw all the people step out of their graves, beyond the few around Jerusalem who were resurrected at Jesus' death. I think we both agree that the resurrection applies to all believers, not just those few people, so that can not have been the event. For that reason, it must be either (1) still future, or (2) misunderstood. It must be one of those two, and I'm going with option two, for the following reasons.
1. Jesus said all these things would happen before that generation passed away. (Matthew 24:34)
2. Jesus said some standing there would not die before all these things happened. (Mark 9:1)
3. Jesus said whoever obeys his word will never see death. (John 8:51)
4. Jesus said whoever believes in him will never die. (John 11:26)
5. Paul said we have already been brought from death to life. (Romans 6:13)
6. The temple was referred to as "heaven and earth" and was destroyed by fire, which means Revelation has been fulfilled.
7. Modern NDE experiences tell me that people no longer experience the state of death.
8. New testament authors do not describe people experiencing death, as the old testament does.
The way I understand the resurrection, is that it happens on an individual case by case basis as each person "dies", for the following reason: Jesus told us that if we believe in him, we will never truly die, meaning we will never experience the state of death the way the old testament saints did, because we will immediately, in the twinkling of an eye, be moved from this life into the next.
Jesus tried to explain this to his disciples several times:
John 11:26
and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
John 8:51
Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death
Think about it. If we can never experience death, as Jesus said, then we can not be resurrected from death. It's logically impossible. Therefore it must have already happened. Therefore, we must reconsider what the resurrection actually looks like. If our preconceived notions don't fit the facts (which I listed above), then we have to change our preconceived notions.
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TribulationSigns
Active Member
Speculations. No Biblical Truth to this dispensational premillennialism nonsense. They get private interpretations from the world news and YouTube instead of the Word of God where His interpreation can be found. Beware of the false prophets.
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That's a lot of speculation and opinion there. Not very convincing, to be honest.
You're literally arguing that, because the historical record does not reflect what you imagine the great tribulation to be like, that therefore the great tribulation must not have happened yet. Isn't it possible that your imagination does not fit reality? Or do you want me to accept your imagination as definitive?
ewq1938
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2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Nope. "Kingdom on all the earth (oikoumene) for a testimony to all the nations (ethnesin) and then the end will come. Ethnesin is where we get the words ethnic ethnicity ... capisce?
kingdom N-GFS |
Ya, because Paul was speaking before 70 AD, before the resurrection had happened. I'm speaking after 70 AD, and after the resurrection.
Ethnesin refers to nations other than Israel. So what? My point stands. Paul said the word had already been preached throughout the entire Roman world, which includes nations outside of Israel.
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