It Must Be Absolutely Terrifying To Be A Post-Tribulation Believer

[rebuilder 454]

You don't have scripture. You have various strawman fallacies. Rev 14 is support of Post-trib where teh rsaopture takes place before teh wrath of God happens. Other scripture place the rapture after the end of the great tribulation, just prior to the pouring of the vials of the wrath of God. A Pre-trib rapture is not found in scripture, not one time. Pre-trib believes the apostasia is the rapture when it is the Apostasy. Anyone wanting to paticipate in the great "Departure" will be able to. The Church will watch them leave.

unpack rev 14.
That is such an easy request.

 

[Scott Downey]

Nope
A little after the main harvest of jews by Jesus with a sickle in rev 14 is the harvest to destruction .
A prewrath harvest that CAN NOT be the pretrib rapture or the postwrath coming on white horses.
IOW ,You need to change most every component of rev 14 to make it work with your assumptions.
Your starting place is wrong.
You say BEFORE investigation there can only be one coming.
Then the bible corrects you.
All i do is read and report.
Only pretrib fits and is so easy to defend.

Revelation 13 already has the evil beast world system impowered on earth, Rev 14 comes after that, so the sickles cannot be harvesting the earth in a pretrib pov is it. Yet you stated the first sickle harvest was the rapture come before the tribulation time frame.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Post these supposed 3 comings.

Rev 14...gathering by Jesus with a sickle
1 thes 4 ....gathering of resurrected dead in Christ PRECEDE THE living of REV 14.
REV 19...post wrath coming on white horses blackening the sky.

All eternally declared by the word of God.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Revelation 13 already has the evil beast world system impowered on earth, Rev 14 comes after that, so the sickles cannot be harvesting the earth in a pretrib pov is it. Yet you stated the first sickle harvest was the rapture come before the tribulation time frame.

Correct
3 harvests.
2 are not the church.
Solid bible
3 comings.
Only the last one is to the earth.
The first 2 are done from the air/clouds.
There is much scripture to authenticate that.

 

[Scott Downey]

Read Revelation 14
Jesus comes with a sickle in his hand sitting on a cloud , never touches earth, and that is A rapture right before the wrath of God so the second coming on white horses and the Rapture of the Dead in Christ is not Revelation 14

so there are three comings right there

the first two he doesn't touch Earth but the last one he comes with his Saints on white horses only pre-trib rapture fits.

Right here you said the first sickle harvest is the rapture.... Your own words are contradictory
Rev 14 is during the tribulation, after the beast system is revealed.
YET your retrib rapture theology is pre trib, so must happen before the tribulation period which begins in rev 13

 

[rebuilder 454]

Bonus ;
In the grain harvest it is 3 parts.
Firstfruits
Main
Corners and gleaners (stragglers)
Illustrating the 3 gatherings.
No postribber can unpack the illustration of "harvest".
We own it.
Glory to God!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Right here you said the first sickle harvest is the rapture.... Your own words are contradictory
Rev 14 is during the tribulation, after the beast system is revealed.
YET your retrib rapture theology is pre trib, so must happen before the tribulation period which begins in rev 13

Nope
Not true.
I can declare it in my sleep.
So simple.
Rev 14 is not the pretrib rapture.
I was unpacking rev 14 around 6 years ago.
You can listen to older vids on eschatology.
NOBODY saw rev 14.
Rev 14 is the irrefutable authentication of a pretrib rapture because ALL OTHER positions can NOT reconcile rev 14 gathering apart from the dead in Christ take FIRST.
Only pretrib rapture / gathering fits.
Rev 14 is a pivot point and ends all assumptions of all other positions.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Right here you said the first sickle harvest is the rapture.... Your own words are contradictory
Rev 14 is during the tribulation, after the beast system is revealed.
YET your retrib rapture theology is pre trib, so must happen before the tribulation period which begins in rev 13

"Rapture" is "gathering".
Don't let cliches' sway you.

 

[David in NJ]

Rev 14...gathering by Jesus with a sickle
1 thes 4 ....gathering of resurrected dead in Christ PRECEDE THE living of REV 14.
REV 19...post wrath coming on white horses blackening the sky.

All eternally declared by the word of God.

Revelation has 7 Iterations of the Second Coming.

iteration

ĭt″ə-rā′shən

noun​

1. The act or an instance of iterating; repetition.
2. A form, adaption, or version of something.
3. A computational procedure in which a cycle of operations is repeated, often to approximate the desired result more closely.

 

[rebuilder 454]

God's purpose for us is to believe His words and not add to them.

Romans ch11
You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25For I do not desire, brethren, that you(@rebuilder 454) should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

All sides of the debate believe all that.
You are trying to generalize away scripture.
It is called "condemnation before investigation"

 

[rebuilder 454]

Revelation has 7 Iterations of the Second Coming.

iteration

ĭt″ə-rā′shən

noun​

1. The act or an instance of iterating; repetition.
2. A form, adaption, or version of something.
3. A computational procedure in which a cycle of operations is repeated, often to approximate the desired result more closely.

???? makes no sense.
You asked for verses then ATTEMPT to void Gods word with generalities and assumptions.

 

[David in NJ]

All sides of the debate believe all that.
You are trying to generalize away scripture.
It is called "condemnation before investigation"

"condemnation before investigation" is what you just did with Romans ch11

Romans ch11 = Read it and point out the 'pre-trib' rapture verse that you believe to be true.

 

[Scott Downey]

"Rapture" is "gathering".
Don't let cliches' sway you.

You still refuse to acknowledge your own conflict with the scriptures here. Others can see the same things, things I have brought up with you. So you distract with your comment here.

 

[David in NJ]

???? makes no sense.
You asked for verses then ATTEMPT to void Gods word with generalities and assumptions.

Definition for 'pre-trib' rapture: "ATTEMPT to void Gods word with generalities and assumptions."

 

[ewq1938]

unpack rev 14.
That is such an easy request.

I just did. Is it a difficult request to read it?

 

[David in NJ]

All sides of the debate believe all that.
You are trying to generalize away scripture.
It is called "condemnation before investigation"

Please read Romans ch11 and point out the pre-trib rapture verses that you see in it - thank you

 

[Timtofly]

As far as the first sickle, the saints God has given into the hands of Satan for a season of time, many will be killed.

They are beheaded. No getting around that. Is beheading the new rapture?

All will be beheaded. But they are those resurrected after Satan is bound. Those on white horses in Revelation 19 are those removed prior to the 7th Trumpet during the first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

Those beheaded are those on the earth during Satan's 42 months of AoD. Satan is the 8th kingdom, after the 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as the 7th kingdom. Revelation 17:10-11

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh (The Prince to come, Jesus, Daniel 9:27) , he must continue a short space (the days of the 7th Trumpet) . And the beast (Satan) that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Revelation 11:15

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

This is the declaration of the 7th kingdom. Jesus is now King of every nation. Jesus has been on the earth with His angels removing souls from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Matthew 13:36-43

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man (The Prince to come) ; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man (The Prince to come) shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom (the 7th kingdom) all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

When the final harvest is over during the Trumpets and Thunders, the 7th Trumpet declares the 7th kingdom. We see that the lost are removed and cast into the LOF. We see the redeemed are removed to the sea of glass. People don't hang out on earth during the time of Jacob's trouble. Every one is being removed. The kingdom will only contain the redeemed. Even Matthew 25:31-46 shows the goats cast alive into the LOF. Jesus is sitting on His throne for His 7th kingdom way before the 7th Trumpet declares the kingdom is fit for the King. This is the baptism of fire. This is Jacob's trouble. This is the final harvest where the vast majority of humanity is removed.


And the church is raptured and glorified (the 5th Seal) prior to Jesus standing on the mount of Olives in the opening of the 6th Seal. Yes the sheep and wheat are redeemed, out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They rule and reign on the earth as firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom.

And sure, for 42 months Satan is handed the earth as the 8th kingdom. Last time I checked 8 comes after 7. But the 8th kingdom is destroyed at Armageddon. Then the 7th Kingdom rules during the Millennium.

Some people want to put the 8th kingdom at the end of the Millennium, as Satan's little season. No. The Millennium is after the final harvest, and after Satan is bound.

 

[David in NJ]

They are beheaded. No getting around that. Is beheading the new rapture?

All will be beheaded. But they are those resurrected after Satan is bound. Those on white horses in Revelation 19 are those removed prior to the 7th Trumpet during the first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

Those beheaded are those on the earth during Satan's 42 months of AoD. Satan is the 8th kingdom, after the 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as the 7th kingdom. Revelation 17:10-11

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh (The Prince to come, Jesus, Daniel 9:27) , he must continue a short space (the days of the 7th Trumpet) . And the beast (Satan) that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Revelation 11:15

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

This is the declaration of the 7th kingdom. Jesus is now King of every nation. Jesus has been on the earth with His angels removing souls from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Matthew 13:36-43

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man (The Prince to come) ; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man (The Prince to come) shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom (the 7th kingdom) all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

When the final harvest is over during the Trumpets and Thunders, the 7th Trumpet declares the 7th kingdom. We see that the lost are removed and cast into the LOF. We see the redeemed are removed to the sea of glass. People don't hang out on earth during the time of Jacob's trouble. Every one is being removed. The kingdom will only contain the redeemed. Even Matthew 25:31-46 shows the goats cast alive into the LOF. Jesus is sitting on His throne for His 7th kingdom way before the 7th Trumpet declares the kingdom is fit for the King. This is the baptism of fire. This is Jacob's trouble. This is the final harvest where the vast majority of humanity is removed.


And the church is raptured and glorified (the 5th Seal) prior to Jesus standing on the mount of Olives in the opening of the 6th Seal. Yes the sheep and wheat are redeemed, out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They rule and reign on the earth as firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom.

And sure, for 42 months Satan is handed the earth as the 8th kingdom. Last time I checked 8 comes after 7. But the 8th kingdom is destroyed at Armageddon. Then the 7th Kingdom rules during the Millennium.

Some people want to put the 8th kingdom at the end of the Millennium, as Satan's little season. No. The Millennium is after the final harvest, and after Satan is bound.

"Those on white horses in Revelation 19 are those removed prior to the 7th Trumpet during the first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders."

Where does it state this presupposition?

Please post the verse(s)

 

[The Light]

are you referring to the gathering in rev 14?
If so, that is not the rapture of the church

The coming of the Lord in Revelation 14 occurs at the 6th seal. It is also the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. This happens Before wrath and is the gathering from heaven and earth. It is the Jews that are gathered from the earth and the Church that is gathered from heaven.

So I fully understand that it is not the rapture of the Church as they are in heaven before the seals are opened...........which is soon.

 

[David in NJ]

The coming of the Lord in Revelation 14 occurs at the 6th seal. It is also the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. This happens Before wrath and is the gathering from heaven and earth. It is the Jews that are gathered from the earth and the Church that is gathered from heaven.

So I fully understand that it is not the rapture of the Church as they are in heaven before the seals are opened...........which is soon.

The 6th Seal and Revelation ch14 and Matthew ch24 all agree = correct?