A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

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Jack

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You can't make up meanings for words from other languages to make them fit you.

Jesus was the means through which his Father created all things. Because he was the Only Begotten and Firstborn Son, he was there with his Father, cooperating with the creation of which his Father was the direct Causer ... and the apostles knew it very well:

Acts 4:24 On hearing this, they raised their voices with one accord to God and said:
“Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant:
‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ (Psal. 2:1,2)
27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”
Jesus is clearly called God the Creator.

Hebrews 1
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
 

Jack

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So you dont know Jack?
Would you rather have my opinion or God's Word?

Hebrews 1
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
 
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face2face

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The deception is horrible, but then, would we expect anything less from God’s adversary? A deception is recognized only in hindsight, which in the case of deceived humankind, will be too late. Will God allow people to be deceived? YES! Why?

As Paul wrote in 2 Thess 2:9-12….
“But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”

If we have no love for the truth because it dispels what we want to believe, then God allows the lies to remain as truth for those who want to worship what they love.
@ElieG12

The first question one must ask of Jane's quote in 2 Thessalonians is simple...Who is the Adversary the Apostle is referring to? We know its not some supernatural make believe creature that dwells in fire!

You see Paul uses the same language when writing to the Corinthians, in describing Jewish adversaries who had assumed apostolic powers, disguising themselves as servants of righteousness (Read 2 Co 10:2-15). When people hide their true identity and disguise one's true character they become an Adversary of the True Gospel of God.

No Supernatural Evil being here as Jane has imagined! Jane has missed the true context opting for more fanciful notions - she has actually revealed that she is the deceived one.

Here's the thing Elie, if Paul was referring to such an evil being he would provide you with a details on Who he is, How he deceives and what tools you require to overcome him - highly unlikely given Jane believes this being is so powerful it can roam around like a Lion devouring people at will LOL. It's a ludicrous belief!

Read the below words of Paul and you will see how he is dealing with this Judaistic Adversary (satan in the churches)!

2 I beg of you that when I am present I may not have to show boldness with such confidence as I count on showing against some who suspect us of walking according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 6 being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.

Notice how Paul is stating the nature of their warfare... is not against some make believe Supernatural Dark Power, but false religious strongholds i.e. Judaism! The adversary (satan) is the false arguments demanding those to return to the Law of Moses and be circumcised! It is these that are changing the Gospel back to the Law - Read all of Galatians where the circumcision party had already had success!

7 Look at what is before your eyes. If anyone is confident that he is Christ's, let him remind himself that just as he is Christ's, so also are we. 8 For even if I boast a little too much of our authority, which the Lord gave for building you up and not for destroying you, I will not be ashamed. 9 I do not want to appear to be frightening you with my letters. 10 For they say, “His letters are weighty and strong, but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech of no account.” 11 Let such a person understand that what we say by letter when absent, we do when present. 12 Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding. 13 But we will not boast beyond limits, but will boast only with regard to the area of influence God assigned to us, to reach even to you. 14 For we are not overextending ourselves, as though we did not reach you. For we were the first to come all the way to you with the gospel of Christ. 15 We do not boast beyond limit in the labors of others. But our hope is that as your faith increases, our area of influence among you may be greatly enlarged, 2 Cor 10:

Now re read Janes quote:

“But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”

Which adversary of Christ sought signs and wonders?
Which adversary of Christ reveal unrighteous deception?
Which adversary of Christ rejected the love of the truth (Gospel)
What God allowed them to hold to their beloved Moses and the Law?
Who did Christ say "took pleasure in unrighteousness?

That is the adversary Paul has in mind!

Jane is unable to show you the true nature of the adversary because it's not in the Word of God but in her mind alone!

F2F
 
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face2face

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Would you rather have my opinion or God's Word?

Hebrews 1
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
What did the angels do Jack, it's not difficult to answer. Christ ascended Heaven for the first time and they did something...surely you know this!
 

face2face

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@ElieG12

Also, if Jane believes this evil being is overcome but Paul doing this: We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, then we need to have a serious chat about the power of this so called Supernatural Evil Being.

Ask Jane for specifics!

Show me anywhere in the NT a recorded interaction between an Apostle and this being?
Show me anywhere in the NT where this so called evil creature uses it Powers on a believer.

Sit back and watch what happens!

F2F
 

face2face

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@Wrangler @Aunty Jane @ElieG12

Jane believes this evil demonic being is doing this:

"the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders"

"pretended ('pseudo')
signs and wonders" (these adversaries actually have NO POWER!)

The context is the Man of Sin and not a Supernatural Evil Despot of a being! This corrupt religious system (both then and now!) is striving to be the rival of the Man of Righteousness, and his apostles, who were truly revealed in signs and wonders (Read Acts 2:22,43; Gal 3:5; Heb 2:4).

Jesus himself predicted such a parody of himself would arise (Mat 24:24; Mark 13:22). These satans are all human in nature and even today there are many examples of this conscious deception: alleged miraculous cures, alleged miraculous appearances and revelations, wonder workers, exorcisms of "demons", and veneration of relics etc. etc.

This false doctrine is such a blight on your minds you cannot see clearly or think straight!

Read with care follow Christians!

F2F
 

face2face

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It's good to know what God said.

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!
True it is but for now you dont know what happened when Christ entered Heaven for the first time. Have a look!
 

face2face

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Why don't you just say what's on your mind instead of JW smokescreens?
You present as one who has a rather simple faith - you read things hyper literally so its in your best interest to search to show yourself approved of God and not do what you always have done - that is copy and paste and read things literally.
Jesus ascended to Heaven for the first time and the angels were there to greet him...what did they do?
F2F
 

Jack

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You present as one who has a rather simple faith - you read things hyper literally
True indeed. God's Word overrules all else.
so its in your best interest to search to show yourself approved of God and not do what you always have done - that is copy and paste and read things literally.
2 Timothy 2
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
That's the Bible my friend.

And this is what you are promoting.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Jesus ascended to Heaven for the first time and the angels were there to greet him...what did they do?
F2F
Why don't you tell us? Don't you know? Scripture please.
 

face2face

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True indeed. God's Word overrules all else.

2 Timothy 2
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
That's the Bible my friend.

And this is what you are promoting.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Why don't you tell us? Don't you know? Scripture please.
Proverbs 25:2
 

face2face

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Well it's pretty clear you're not gonna say what you mean. Must be something you don't want us to know, just like Kingdom Hall victims.
Yeah that's it Jack!