Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

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Pierac

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And using this example should lead many to understand Elohim in the beginning refers to both angels, as much as it can humans. God works through His Agents whether they be angelic or human messengers. What trinitarians force on the Word in those early chapters is criminal.
Yea.... BUT .... You know not... Whom.... I AM!!!

Silly Child....

Elohim

Elohim has been a very confusing word for many people. The word elohim is used various ways in Scripture. It is not only used to describe the Almighty, but also individual pagan gods and even mighty human beings. Elohim may be translated as God, god, angels, judges, or even a human being who stands as God's representative or agent. For example, the sons of Heth address Abraham as "a mighty prince," the word for "mighty" being elohim (Genesis 23:6). Some translations have Abraham here being called "Prince of God." Take another instance. In Exodus 4, the Lord tells Moses that he "shall be as God" (elohim) to his brother Aaron. Moses will have God's words in his mouth, and will stand as God's representative before Aaron. Here is a case where an individual human is called elohim. Again in Exodus 7:1, the Lord says to Moses, "See, I make you God [elohim] to Pharaoh." No one dares to suggest that there is a plurality of persons within Moses because he is called elohim, that is, God's representative. The pagan god Dagon is also called elohim in the Hebrew Bible. The Philistines lamented that the God of Israel was harshly treating "Dagon our God [elohim]" (1 Sam. 5:7). Dagon was a single pagan deity. The same holds true for the single pagan god called Chemosh: “Do you not possess what Chemosh your god [elohim] gives you to possess?" (Jud. 11:24). The same for the single deity called Baal.

The Hebrew language has many examples of words which are plural but whose meaning is singular. In Genesis 23, Abraham's wife Sarah dies. The Hebrew text says, "the lives [plural] of Sarah were 127 years" (v. 1). Even the plural verb that accompanies the pronoun does not mean Sarah lived multiple lives. The Hebrews never taught reincarnation or plurality of personhood. Another example of this kind of anomaly in the Hebrew language is found in Genesis 43. After Joseph wept to see his brothers, we read that Joseph "washed his faces" (plural). This is another instance where in the Hebrew language the plural noun functions as a singular noun with a singular meaning, unless, of course, Joseph was a multi-faced human being! The same occurs in Genesis 16:8 where Hagar flees from "the faces" (plural) of her mistress Sarah. These are "anomalies" of the Hebrew language that are clearly understood by Hebrew scholars who rightly translate to a singular form in English.

The better explanation is that the Hebrews used a form of speech called "the plural of majesty." Put simply this means that someone whose position was warrant of dignity was spoken in this way as giving a sign of honor. The plural acted as a means of intensification:

Elohim must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty.

Whenever the word elohim refers to the God of Israel the Septuagint uses the singular and not the plural. From Genesis 1:1 consistently right through, this holds true. The Hebrews who translated their own scriptures into Greek simply had no idea that their God could be more than one individual, or a multiple personal Being! This is true too when we come to the New Testament. The New Testament nowhere hints at a plurality in the meaning of elohim when it reproduces references to the One God as ho theos, the One God.
 

St. SteVen

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And what's wrong with Easter?
Wow.
Bob, Bob, Bob...
I already told you that it was a pagan holiday. - LOL

A bit of research might be in order.
I was going to post a link, but I didn't want to frighten you.

Now I suppose you will ask me what's wrong with pagan holidays?
 

Bob Estey

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Wow.
Bob, Bob, Bob...
I already told you that it was a pagan holiday. - LOL

A bit of research might be in order.
I was going to post a link, but I didn't want to frighten you.

Now I suppose you will ask me what's wrong with pagan holidays?
You told me Easter is a pagan holiday. Clearly, there are people who disagree.
 
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St. SteVen

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You told me Easter is a pagan holiday. Clearly, there are people who disagree.
Honestly, it's a funny thing.
I cringe when we have "Easter" services at churches.
So, you are right. For the most part everyone has accepted the celebration of the goddess,
That's where religion gets you.

1695432030761.jpeg
 

Bob Estey

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Honestly, it's a funny thing.
I cringe when we have "Easter" services at churches.
So, you are right. For the most part everyone has accepted the celebration of the goddess,
That's where religion gets you.

View attachment 36589
Are you telling me that we can't celebrate Jesus rising from the dead, because pagans wanted to celebrate something else on the same day?
 
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RLT63

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--- PARODY TIME ---

KJO reader: This is what the Word of God says.
NIV reader: Let's compare the NIV translation.
KJO reader: WHAT! ??? That's a terrible translation!
NIV reader: Are you saying it isn't the "Word of God"?
KJO reader: The NIV left verses out of the Bible!
NIV reader: No, the NIV kept the same verse numbering system
but left out verses that didn't belong there in the first place.
KJO reader: THEY REMOVED VERSES FROM THE BIBLE !!!!
NIV reader: No, that's not what happened.
KJO reader: Yes it is what HAPPENED !!!
NIV reader: Show me one.
KJO reader: Here you go.
NIV reader: My footnote accounts for that.
KJO reader: Accounts for verses removed from the Bible? ???
NIV reader: The footnote says: It does not appear in any New Testament
manuscript prior to the end of the 6th century.
KJO reader: It's NOT the Word of God !!!!
NIV reader: Seriously?

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

Do you do that?
Another thing I notice especially among a certain group is that anything that contradicts their theology they can find a variation in the original Greek to show you why the Bible doesn’t mean what it actually says
 
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Gottservant

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[...]

I think you misunderstood the OP.
I was asking you if you would be willing to let a religious institution TELL you what you can and cannot believe.
Would you surrender what God told you, in order to comply with a church?

[...]
Oh ok. Give up to a Church - I would hear the Church out, possibly write something down, but that would be it: getting between me and God is nothing any Church should be able to do.
 
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Wick Stick

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--- PARODY TIME ---

KJO reader: This is what the Word of God says.
NIV reader: Let's compare the NIV translation.
KJO reader: WHAT! ??? That's a terrible translation!
NIV reader: Are you saying it isn't the "Word of God"?
KJO reader: The NIV left verses out of the Bible!
NIV reader: No, the NIV kept the same verse numbering system
but left out verses that didn't belong there in the first place.
KJO reader: THEY REMOVED VERSES FROM THE BIBLE !!!!
NIV reader: No, that's not what happened.
KJO reader: Yes it is what HAPPENED !!!
NIV reader: Show me one.
KJO reader: Here you go.
NIV reader: My footnote accounts for that.
KJO reader: Accounts for verses removed from the Bible? ???
NIV reader: The footnote says: It does not appear in any New Testament
manuscript prior to the end of the 6th century.
KJO reader: It's NOT the Word of God !!!!
NIV reader: Seriously?

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

Do you do that?
Yes, I do that. Well... I'm not a KJO guy. I do like and use the KJV, mostly because that's what they made us memorize growing up.

I like the ESV and RSV. Good Bibles.

But the NIV?!? I'm pretty sure it stands for Nearly Inspired Version.
 
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Wick Stick

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It is my belief that the Word of God are those instances in the Bible where God or Jesus are quoted.
How about the prophets? You know... "This is the Word of the Lord that came to the prophet such-and-such during the reign of king whats-is-name."
 
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RLT63

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I'm not "King James Only". Concerning the NIV, I compare the NT passages to the Greek texts, which is why I never use the NIV. There are many places where it changes words to use words not supported in the actual text, thereby replacing translation with interpretation.

Interestingly, the King James translators included in their preface that even the "meanest" translation, if done by actual translators, is still the Word of God. Just the same, there are in fact more and less accurate versions. We do well to know what they are.

Much love!
I like the NKJ V and now I use the NET Full Notes Edition. The notes are amazing and it gives great detail on why some verses were omitted.
 

St. SteVen

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Are you telling me that we can't celebrate Jesus rising from the dead, because pagans wanted to celebrate something else on the same day?
No, not at all.
Just saying that it is unfortunate that the pagan holiday name attached itself to the church.
I understand what Christians mean when they use the term. I prefer to call it Resurrection Day. And I don't expect
anyone to fall in line with my wishes, just surprised when I encounter someone that doesn't know about it.
 

St. SteVen

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Another thing I notice especially among a certain group is that anything that contradicts their theology they can find a variation in the original Greek to show you why the Bible doesn’t mean what it actually says
So true.
The use of "proof-texting" is rampant as well.
Going to the Bible with a preconceived idea in search of evidence to give your opinion biblical authority.
As they say, you can MAKE the Bible say pretty much anything you want it to say.
 
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St. SteVen

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Oh ok. Give up to a Church - I would hear the Church out, possibly write something down, but that would be it: getting between me and God is nothing any Church should be able to do.
Nothing any Church should be ABLE to do?
Seems that if we are gullible, they are plenty capable. - LOL
 
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St. SteVen

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Yes, I do that. Well... I'm not a KJO guy. I do like and use the KJV, mostly because that's what they made us memorize growing up.

I like the ESV and RSV. Good Bibles.

But the NIV?!? I'm pretty sure it stands for Nearly Inspired Version.
That's good. "Nearly Inspired Version." - LOL

I don't don't have anything against the KJV. I just prefer the NIV.
I do have a problem with the KJO types.
I laugh when they tell me that the NIV left verses out of the Bible.
Have you heard that one? - LOL

I have a Greek interlinear NT with KJV on one side and NIV on the other.
A great resource really.

And frankly, the KJV of 1611 was a triumph in Bible translation FOR THE TIME.
All done by hand. No computers, or telephones, or...