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[GracePeace]

You can't be born again and have sin.

1 John 3:9

If you have sin, then its not forgiven, yet.

If you have sin, then God does not have you as His own, yet.

Here is what God does with ALL the sin, of the BELIEVER.

"God hath made JESUS.... to be SIN....for us"

Jesus took the sin of the believer to the Grave and left it, and rose again without it, and you dont have it, if you are born again.
If you are just water baptized and religious, then you have it...
Sure.

"Jesus is the ONE time ETERNAL.... sacrifice for sin"..

So, there is no Sin found In Heaven, or "in Christ"
All the born again, are "seated in heavenly places" 'in Christ".


"well behold, my church teaches that you confess it to get it forgive again".

Sorry, no.

Jesus is the "ONE TIME...ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".

If you are confessing sin that He has already died 2000 yrs ago to deal with ETERNALLY, then you are in a church that is not understanding the Grace of God as the Cross of Christ"

"but they are smart, and some of these pastors have a lot of Seminary training" "and they have big bibles" and they wear "blue suits" and they say., "Gawd."


Ok.. next.

LOL Well, we have to agree to disagree: I read, from Scripture, that the Corinthians--whom Paul affirms were "unleavened", and "in Christ", and all of that good stuff--were sinning, and needed to repent, but, because you are insisting on interpreting 1 John 3:9 as meaning "you can't have sin if you're born of God" in a way that nullifies 1 Corinthians, rather than finding out how they are both true, we're disagreeing.

A "Reformed" person would just argue that "God has means"--ie, Paul's words of rebuke to them is the "means" whereby God actuates their not continuing in sin, since it says "for His seed abides in them", What is the "seed"? The Word of God. Paul brings the Word of God, the Word that corrects them, and they receive it, and they repent.

And what happens if they do not accept the Word of God?

We know, from the Parable of the Sower, that some grounds/hearts receive/believe the Word of God for a while, but, at the last fall away.
What happens to their righteousness (ie, "faith is counted as righteousness")?
It is forgotten--as Ezekiel says, "God will not remember his righteousness".
Thus, being blotted out of the Book of Life, it is as though they were never in it at all.

Deuteronomy 32:5 They are no longer His children because of their defect
Deuteronomy 32:21 They chose another god
Hosea 1 Not My People.. but where this was said, it shall be said "Children of the Living God" (they were His children, but they became "not His children" (as "His People" are, ipso facto, "His children"), and, in the future, they will again be "God's children").

This reality is all throughout the New Testament.

 

[Behold]

LOL Well, we have to agree to disagree: I read, from Scripture, that the Corinthians--whom Paul affirms were "unleavened", and "in Christ", and all of that good stuff--were sinning,

He wrote more then 1-2 Corinthians, so, the other 11 Epistles speak more about it.

Now...Here is how to understand "sin".

Its the law that defines you as a sinner, and your carnal works of the Flesh, as sin.

This is the dominion of the Law. And the Curse of the law, is that its defines you as a sinner and worst of all, it empowers you to sin.

"the power of SIN, is the LAW".. "the LAW is the power of Sin".

So, what happens if the Law is taken away from you, so that it has no more authority to define you as a sinner, ever again. ??????

A.) "Christ is the END of the LAW....for Righteousness, to everyone who Believes"

AA.) "Jesus has redeemed the born again from the CURSE of the LAW"

AAA.) The Born again, are "not under the LAW... but under Grace".

So, how does GRACE define you, always?

A.) "Where there is no LAW... there is no SIN.. no Transgression"


Welcome to : Salvation

Welcome to : "in Christ"

 

[GracePeace]

He wrote more then 1-2 Corinthians, so, the other 11 Epistles speak more about it.

Now...Here is how to understand "sin".

Its the law that defines you as a sinner, and your carnal works of the Flesh, as sin.

This is the dominion of the Law. And the Curse of the law, is that its defines you as a sinner and worst of all, it empowers you to sin.

"the power of SIN, is the LAW".. "the LAW is the power of Sin".

So, what happens if the Law is taken away from you, so that it has no more authority to define you as a sinner, ever again. ??????

A.) "Christ is the END of the LAW....for Righteousness, to everyone who Believes"

AA.) "Jesus has redeemed the born again from the CURSE of the LAW"

AAA.) The Born again, are "not under the LAW... but under Grace".

So, how does GRACE define you, always?

A.) "Where there is no LAW... there is no SIN.. no Transgression"


Welcome to : Salvation

Welcome to : "in Christ"

You have said some true things, but that truth is mixed up with a lot misunderstandings:

1. The Gentiles were never "under Law" (eg, in Romans 2 "Those who sinned under Law will be judged by the Law, those who sinned without the Law will perish without the Law."), so believing in Christ doesn't "set them free" from the Law.
That dynamic is only true of believing Jews--the majority of Romans is written to Jewish believers, as he says, "You call yourself a Jew" Ro 2:17, "Abraham our forefather according to the flesh" Ro 4:1, and "brothers (for I speak to those who know the Law)" Ro 7:1).

2. Even without the Law, people die/died because of sin (Ro 5:14)--the wages of sin is death--so the idea that "taking away the Law" (which doesn't even apply to Gentiles) means "you can never be a sinner" is nonsensical. Of course people sin without the Law--they die as a proof of that fact. So, even if we granted the idea that "the Law is taken away from believers", it would not follow, from that alone, that they could not sin and die (which is really the issue here--facing the second death on account of sinning during this life despite being a Christian).

 

[GracePeace]

He wrote more then 1-2 Corinthians, so, the other 11 Epistles speak more about it.

Now...Here is how to understand "sin".

Its the law that defines you as a sinner, and your carnal works of the Flesh, as sin.

This is the dominion of the Law. And the Curse of the law, is that its defines you as a sinner and worst of all, it empowers you to sin.

"the power of SIN, is the LAW".. "the LAW is the power of Sin".

So, what happens if the Law is taken away from you, so that it has no more authority to define you as a sinner, ever again. ??????

A.) "Christ is the END of the LAW....for Righteousness, to everyone who Believes"

AA.) "Jesus has redeemed the born again from the CURSE of the LAW"

AAA.) The Born again, are "not under the LAW... but under Grace".

So, how does GRACE define you, always?

A.) "Where there is no LAW... there is no SIN.. no Transgression"


Welcome to : Salvation

Welcome to : "in Christ"

When explicit knowledge of God's will comes in (as it had with Adam, and as it did when the Law came through Moses (Ro 5:14)), it turns sin into transgression. All transgressions are sins, but not all sins are transgressions.

But since Adam sinned without having had the Law, only having had the Word of God spoken to him, that would seem to mean that Christians (Jew and Gentile) can be guilty of "transgression", since God speaks to them--that is, unless Adam became a "transgressor" on account of having partaken of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, whereby he came to possess knowledge he transgressed... but all humans since then were born into the same, and die on account of it, so I don't think that that was why he was called a transgressor.

This would nullify your entire point about the taking away of the Law.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

...facing the second death on account of sinning during this life despite being a Christian

Precious friend, two problems with this, if one is a 'True' believer:

1) nullifies The ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Of Christ

2) nullifies God's Operation on all new-born babes ( who are Eternally ) In Christ

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified In Christ,
And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

God's Simple Will!

Amen.

 

[GracePeace]

Precious friend, two problems with this, if one is a 'True' believer:

1) nullifies The ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Of Christ

No, rather, in such a case, it would be said, "How much sorer punishment would he be worthy of who has trampled under foot the blood of the Son of God?"

 

[GracePeace]

2) nullifies God's Operation on all new-born babes ( who are Eternally ) In Christ

Nowhere are we told anyone's position "in Christ" is eternal.
We are told, rather, something about "eternal life", but it is specified that that is "in His Son"--and, contrary to what you are asserting, the children are warned "remain in Him so that when He appears you will not be ashamed" (1 Jn 2:28).

What could draw them away? Idolatry (1 John 5:21).

 

[GracePeace]

Nowhere are we told anyone's position "in Christ" is eternal.
We are told, rather, something about "eternal life", but it is specified that that is "in His Son"--and, contrary to what you are asserting, the children are warned "remain in Him so that when He appears you will not be ashamed" (1 Jn 2:28).

What could draw them away? Idolatry (1 John 5:21).

Who will be "ashamed"?
Those who are "naked" (Rv 3:17, 16:15).
Well, what are the "garments"? Good deeds (Rv 19:7,8).

So, if the "spiritual babes", the "little children", do not abide in Him, they will not be "clothed" with "good deeds", and they will be "ashamed" at His return. "Shame" is a description of the state of being belonging to those who do not inherit eternal life (Daniel 12:2).

 

[quietthinker]

It says "tickets no longer available". I can't see the message.
I am aware that our "salvation" through Christ is comparable to that salvation the Jews had had from Egypt, "the house of bondage", though (1 Co 10).

You must be looking at somebody's advertisement on a different site
Try again.

 

[GracePeace]

It's because you don't understand what constitutes the Good News. If you're motivated check out the ReDiscovering God link in my signature below, you'll probably discover things you didn't know.

Oh, sorry, the "tickets are sold out" was for the "lightbearers" link.

The "ReDiscovering" podcast has tons of podcasts.
Which one did were you thinking would be helpful?
(I can't listen to hundreds of hours of material to address a specific question.)

 

[quietthinker]

Oh, sorry, the "tickets are sold out" was for the "lightbearers" link.

The "ReDiscovering" podcast has tons of podcasts.
Which one did were you thinking would be helpful?
(I can't listen to hundreds of hours of material to address a specific question.)

Pick a podcast heading which you think might interest you and go with that. The later podcasts have video. They consist of a discussion format with Ian, Warren and Sasha. Its free flow approach invites you to engage with where you are in your own understanding.

 

[GracePeace]

Pick a podcast heading which you think might interest you and go with that. The later podcasts have video. They consist of a discussion format with Ian, Warren and Sasha. Its free flow approach invites you to engage with where you are in your own understanding.

If you're offering an answer, isn't it helpful to make it concise?
Telling someone "Wade through over a hundred podcasts, and find the answer I claim will help you is there" is not helpful.
Not really interested.

Beside, I've listened to so many podcasts, lectures, presentations--no one has answers, just answers their buddies, who agree with them, will pat them on their backs, and award them PhDs, for.

 

[quietthinker]

If you're offering an answer, isn't it helpful to make it concise?
Telling someone "Wade through over a hundred podcasts, and find the answer I claim will help you is there" is not helpful.
Not really interested.

Beside, I've listened to so many podcasts, lectures, presentations--no one has answers, just answers their buddies, who agree with them, will pat them on their backs, and award them PhDs, for.

All the podcasts are interesting. They deal with one primary matter and that is, what is God really like. It is news, not advice.

The fears, doubts, weaknesses and arguments we have are all borne from a misunderstanding of what God's nature is. The majority feel God is sitting there waiting for people to trip up so he can judge them unworthy, inadequate and failures. Religion has then given the solution in the many 'how to' pronouncements. They become just another formula for either failure or self righteousness. Even those with buckets of advice don't take notice of their own advice.

So to start, check the title of some presentations. If you find any which appeal go with that.....if not, check the latest one, podcast number 135.

God does not give us answers on a plate. He allows us to come to an understanding of who he is by showing us who he is and taking us from where we are and bringing us around slowly according to our understanding to where he wants us to be.

Be patient, discouragement is not necessary, he has your back. Discouragement is just where the enemy wants you. Don't give up because God surely wont either.

 

[GracePeace]

All the podcasts are interesting. They deal with one primary matter and that is, what is God really like. It is news, not advice.

The fears, doubts, weaknesses and arguments we have are all borne from a misunderstanding of what God's nature is. The majority feel God is sitting there waiting for people to trip up so he can judge them unworthy, inadequate and failures. Religion has then given the solution in the many 'how to' pronouncements. They become just another formula for either failure or self righteousness. Even those with buckets of advice don't take notice of their own advice.

So to start, check the title of some presentations. If you find any which appeal go with that.....if not, check the latest one, podcast number 135.

God does not give us answers on a plate. He allows us to come to an understanding of who he is by showing us who he is and taking us from where we are and bringing us around slowly according to our understanding to where he wants us to be.

Be patient, discouragement is not necessary, he has your back. Discouragement is just where the enemy wants you. Don't give up because God surely wont either.

I'll check a single one out. If it is a disappointment, as virtually all have been, I'll not be investing more time into it.

I appreciate it, but I came here to have specific discussion.

 

[quietthinker]

I'll check a single one out. If it is a disappointment, as virtually all have been, I'll not be investing more time into it.

I appreciate it, but I came here to have specific discussion.

Take a positive attitude, it will be on your side.

 

[GracePeace]

Take a positive attitude, it will be on your side.

I'm sorry, I didn't find anything helpful in the podcast episode I chose to listen to.

Thank you.

 

[quietthinker]

I'm sorry, I didn't find anything helpful there.

Thank you.

As you wish, so it is!

 

[GracePeace]

As you wish, so it is!

I wish that God would bring the exact answers to my questions in a reply to this thread within the next 5 minutes.

If what you said is true, then it will happen; if what you said is false, it won't happen.

 

[GracePeace]

As you wish, so it is!

I wish that God would bring the exact answers to my questions in a reply to this thread within the next 5 minutes.

If what you said is true, then it will happen; if what you said is false, it won't happen.

Looks like what you said was false.

 

[quietthinker]

I wish that God would bring the exact answers to my questions in a reply to this thread within the next 5 minutes.

If what you said is true, then it will happen; if what you said is false, it won't happen.

Every child (lack of maturity) wants instant gratification. That has never been the path to insight, to hope or to ongoing maturity.