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[GracePeace]

I have been a Christian for longer than I'd like to admit (because my life doesn't really show it), and I've studied questions of serving God for a good while, and you'd think I'd have the answers I need by now, but it could be my pride and arrogance that makes God want to hide the truth from me.

I just have trouble understanding what I'm supposed to be thinking when I'm doing good works--and, apparently, it really matters.

One could argue both Paul and Peter did similar actions--they behaved one way in front of Jews, and another way in front of Gentiles--yet only Peter was condemned as "not walking according to the truth", and Paul pronounces false teachers (who basically taught what Peter was teaching/exemplifying) "accursed".
What was the difference? Paul did it "so that I may win souls" (1 Co 9), and Peter did it "because he feared the Jews". What ever was in their minds while they worked was what counted.

So, what is "the truth" I am supposed to be motivated by when I do works?

By my reading of Scripture, it seems like I'm working to save myself, but, in my personal walk with the Lord, my encounters, it seems like that line of thinking, that motivation, is not permissible.

There is a middle road, though: Jesus calls God's will "food".
Though it is technically true, no one sits down to eat, thinking, "If I don't eat, I will die."
Again, it is technically true, but no one is motivated to eat by that thought.
(Not unless you're living under exceptional circumstances.)

Romans 8:12 says we're "indebted" to God.
Before, we were indebted because of our sins; now, Christ forgave us, and we have a new form of debt.
Perhaps it is gratitude?

I just fail to see how I am supposed to be "grateful" for a job "half" done.
From my reading of passages like Mt 25, where the "lazy" (ie, not willing to work, or not working at all) servant is condemned to hell fire, and Ro 2:6-16, it seems salvation depends on my working together with grace, yet the Scripture, which cannot be broken, says God alone is the Savior (Is 43:11), so, if you try to save yourself with your works, apparently, you're committing idolatry, you think you're God.

I'm just really confused, and, honestly, pretty worn out, by all of these things.
I can't find an answer.

 

[Lambano]

That’s neurotic.

For God’s sake, stop that. For your own sanity, just do the best you can and trust Jesus to save you.

 

[GracePeace]

Thanks.

Not to be offensive, but I am looking for Scriptural answers.

 

[Lambano]

So, what is "the truth" I am supposed to be motivated by when I do works?

Since you asked for scripture, your motivation for good works should be….

37 And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’”
(Matthew 22:37-39 and synoptic parallels)

If you are motivated by love (God’s happiness and your neighbors’ good), your own needs don’t even come into play.

 

[GracePeace]

Since you asked for scripture, your motivation for good works should be….

37 And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’

38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.

39 “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ (Matthew 22:37-39 and synoptic parallels)

I am motivated by fear of destruction, but I was told, in prayer, not to even be afraid of going to hell, but to serve completely out of love, but I find it difficult to forget I am being threatened, and I am motivated by the threat, so, when I am told, "Just serve completely out of love, not fear" it makes no sense, and I have no motivation--I mean, if God loves me, then He loves me, He accepts me, I don't have to do anything to make Him accept me... but there is the threat of hell fire, so I am motivated, but I'm not allowed to be motivated by that.

 

[GracePeace]

Since you asked for scripture, your motivation for good works should be….

37 And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’”
(Matthew 22:37-39 and synoptic parallels)[/TD]

If you are motivated by love, your own needs don’t even come into play.

I guess this is a right answer, and I just don't love God enough.

 

[GracePeace]

Since you asked for scripture, your motivation for good works should be….

37 And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’”
(Matthew 22:37-39 and synoptic parallels)

If you are motivated by love, your own needs don’t even come into play.

Also, I think my question is along the lines of "saved by faith or saved by works". I really don't understand that.

But I guess your answer would be, "Yes, you are saved by works--the first good work is to love God, then, you will do things for the God you love."

It's just insulting to be told, "Love me or I'll burn you in hell." How can anyone love God purely, without taking into account the threat--or purely love the God Who is threatening them?

 

[Lambano]

I am motivated by fear of destruction, but I was told, in prayer, not to even be afraid of going to hell, but to serve completely out of love...

Hey, how about that? God agrees with me!

 

[GracePeace]

Hey, how about that? God agrees with me!

Huzzah.

 

[GracePeace]

Hey, how about that? God agrees with me!

By the way, isn't loving God a work of the Law?

 

[Lambano]

Here's a good scripture:

There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:18)

Fear makes you neurotic. They say, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom", but (as the scripture above says and as you have discovered for yourself) you can't serve God properly out of fear. Fear just makes you want to bury your talent in the ground. At some point, you have to trust that God loves you and won't burn you.

I guess this is a right answer, and I just don't love God enough.

No, you don't TRUST God enough.

We love, because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

 

[GracePeace]

Here's a good scripture:

There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:18)

Fear makes you neurotic. They say, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom", but (as the scripture above says and as you have discovered for yourself) you can't serve God properly out of fear. Fear just makes you want to bury your talent in the ground. At some point, you have to trust that God loves you and won't burn you.

No, you don't TRUST God enough.

We love, because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

With respect to the citation of 1 John, 1 John also defines "perfect love": "but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected."

So, yes, if you obey Him, you won't be afraid. That seems to be what this is saying.
It's also rational: Adam first feared when he first sinned.
Sin makes you fearful.
So, then, doing right is salvation? Saved by works?

I do not trust that God won't burn me, because there are endless examples in Scripture where He WILL burn certain Christians.

 

[GracePeace]

Here's a good scripture:

There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:18)

Fear makes you neurotic. They say, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom", but (as the scripture above says and as you have discovered for yourself) you can't serve God properly out of fear. Fear just makes you want to bury your talent in the ground. At some point, you have to trust that God loves you and won't burn you.

No, you don't TRUST God enough.

We love, because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

I guess I don't "trust" God enough.

But "trust" means "I heard God say something, and I trust that"--and I am trusting all the threats I see Him making in Scripture, so why isn't that "trust"?

 

[Lambano]

Questions about whether loving God is a work and whether we are saved by trust or works and just what the hell did Paul mean by "works of Torah" are just theological rat-holes we go down to avoid the real questions on our hearts.

It's just insulting to be told, "Love me or I'll burn you in hell." How can anyone love God purely, without taking into account the threat--or purely love the God Who is threatening them?

Can't disagree with you there. That little beaut is what makes so many Christians so damn neurotic in the first place.

 

[Lambano]

But "trust" means "I heard God say something, and I trust that"--and I am trusting all the threats I see Him making in Scripture, so why isn't that "trust"?

There's a world of difference between "believing" and "trusting" a Person".

 

[GracePeace]

Questions about whether loving God is a work and whether we are saved by trust or works and what the hell did Paul mean by "works of Torah are just theological rat-holes we go down to avoid the real questions on our hearts.


Can't disagree with you there. That little beaut is what makes so many Christians so damn neurotic in the first place.

1. Work of Law
I am trying to figure out: if I'm not saved by works of Law (which includes "love God"--"By the the Law comes the knowledge of sin" and "I would not have known sin lest the Law had said, 'do not covet'" (Ro 3:19,20, 7:7)), then how is it that my salvation seemingly depends on it today?

2. Neurotic
I don't understand how else to legitimately read Scripture than seeing the threats.

 

[GracePeace]

There's a world of difference between "believing" and "trusting" a Person".

Maybe I "trust", but I overemphasize the wrong verses and/or underemphasize the right ones in my "trust".

 

[GracePeace]

1. Work of Law
I am trying to figure out: if I'm not saved by works of Law (which includes "love God"--"By the the Law comes the knowledge of sin" and "I would not have known sin lest the Law had said, 'do not covet'" (Ro 3:19,20, 7:7)), then how is it that my salvation seemingly depends on it today?

Paul compares salvation that faith in Jesus effects to that deliverance the Jews had from Egypt... but, afterward, they displeased God by sinning, so they fell under His wrath, and were rejected and did not inherit the promise (which, today, corresponds to the eternal life which is "in His Son"), so how I am not saving myself with my good deeds?

 

[GracePeace]

Paul compares salvation that faith in Jesus effects to that deliverance the Jews had from Egypt... but, afterward, they displeased God by sinning, so they fell under His wrath, and were rejected and did not inherit the promise (which, today, corresponds to the eternal life which is "in His Son"), so how I am not saving myself with my good deeds?

You could argue, "Well, it's not you doing the good deeds, now, it's Christ."

That's all fine and well, but Christ isn't going to go to hell if I don't do the good deeds, I will, so it's me doing them, but if I'm saving myself, I'm my own god, and that's idolatry, which will bring me to hell.

 

[Lambano]

You're saved because God saves you. My hope is that you will trust God to save you.

Does that make trusting God a "work"? I'll let the theologians strain out the gnats and swallow the camels. And the camel in this tent is, "Why should I trust God to save me?"

What do you think the answer should be?