John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus

[Hepzibah]

why did it take you 17 years to receive the spirit?

eph 1 says you receive the spirit the moment you receive Christ?

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

I received the Spirit originally but later was baptized in Him the Holy Spirit who makes us holy.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

continuing

what does it mean to be born again

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

• As we said earlier, Nicodemus, like all jews, looked for a physical kingdom, Nicodemus looked for a physical kingdom. Born of water and flesh is physical and represented the physical birth and kingdom
• Jesus came in to institute a spiritual kingdom. In order to enter this kingdom, we have to be born spiritually, or born of the spirit. or born again.
• Born of the spirit is not a physical thing, It happens to you, like the wind blowing, but we do not know the source of the wind, so is the same as he who is born again of the spirit.
• Everyone who is born of the spirit, or born again, enters this kingdom and sees it.. But how is this done, what makes it happen?

 

[Hepzibah]

so we have to earn it?

I think the term lose your life is different than you do..

what did the jew do in the OT on the day of atonement to have the blood of the atonment applied to them?

Giving up our independence is not works. Making a commitment to obey Christ immediately the Spirit leads is losing our life. He makes the decisions from then on.

The Jew confessed their sins.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I received the Spirit originally but later was baptized in Him the Holy Spirit who makes us holy.

how can you receive the spirit when you are still dead in your sin?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Giving up our independence is not works. Making a commitment to obey Christ immediately the Spirit leads is losing our life. He makes the decisions from then on.

The Jew confessed their sins.

I agree, giving up our independence is not works.

but losing your life.. in other words humility.. what does this mean. why do we have to do it?

 

[Hepzibah]

how can you receive the spirit when you are still dead in your sin?

At that point, we receive forgiveness for past sin and are clean but very soon we compromise with sin ands fall from that first state of absolute love for Christ.

 

[Hepzibah]

I agree, giving up our independence is not works.

but losing your life.. in other words humility.. what does this mean. why do we have to do it?

We must first of all learn just how corrupt we are to put Christ back on the cross for us. That should humble us enough. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to bring us to this point. If we do not quench the Spirit we are given a pure heart from then on to serve the Lord in all righteousness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nicodemus response.

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

Jesus answer

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,

Why did Jesus mention this event, what does it mean, we must investigate

Numbers 21: 4 Then they journeyed from Mount Hor by the Way of the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom; and the soul of the people became very discouraged on the way. 5 And the people spoke against God and against Moses: “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes this worthless bread.” 6 So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died. 7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that He take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. 8 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.

So what is going on here?

1. The people were getting bit. which was a death sentence.. they were dieing
2. God told Moses to place a serpent on a pole
those who looked were basically born again (their death sentence was revoked you could say, they lived)]
3. Those who did not died. or in other words. nothing change, they suffered the fate of death that was going to happen anyway

so why did people look and why did they not look?

we have to remember the deep stress these people where in. people were dieing all around them. there was no hope for anyone, they could not save themselves..

1 The ones who did look, they had to repent and believe. they had to trust That God would keep his word.

2. The ones who did not. why did they not believe? I feel there are many reasons

1. They did not believe God would save them

2. They thought it was to easy, just look at this pole and I will live.. what a joke
3. They did not think they were in danger.. many do not see their need until it is too late
4. They thought they could save themselves.. or were ok. and did not need God

is this not how the world reacts to the cross??

 

[Eternally Grateful]

At that point, we receive forgiveness for past sin and are clean but very soon we compromise with sin ands fall from that first state of absolute love for Christ.

how was you cleansed of any sins, even if you think it was only past?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We must first of all learn just how corrupt we are to put Christ back on the cross for us. That should humble us enough. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to bring us to this point. If we do not quench the Spirit we are given a pure heart from then on to serve the Lord in all righteousness.

so we have to become bankrupt in spirit. and be as the tax collector. to call out to God?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Notice that he comes at night. He does not want to be seen with him, especially as a pharisee. But he shows he is a seeker. And he comes to get answers.

To me it’s more than he doesn’t want to be seen with him. But considering Nicodemus comes to him at night… It reminds me of all the lamentations and psalms of the night season and cries unto God for help …those in darkness (troubled)seeking after the Light. Night could mean in a time of trouble, conflicted, tossed, broken hearted, in need, shrouded in darkness and seeking the way to be delivered out from the darkness of the night season …into the Day. Important is Nicodemus seeks…in the night to speak with Christ who is the Light that shines unto those who are in darkness. Yes, I think it is more than Nicodemus being afraid of being seen with Him which maybe that is true because of men being afraid to come to the light that their deeds which are evil be made known. Loving the darkness more than the Light, they refuse to come to the light. But Nicodemus sought Christ out in the night…makes more sense than Nicodemus sought Christ out in the daylight…because without Christ there is no light. (Which is their discussion “you must be born again of God”. So Nicodemus seeks in the night for the Light to speak to Him.

 

[Ritajanice]

I’ll get back to you on that last post of yours @Eternally Grateful ...as I need to study what you have written above.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To me it’s more than he doesn’t want to be seen with him. But considering Nicodemus comes to him at night… It reminds me of all the lamentations and psalms of the night season and cries unto God for help …those in darkness (troubled)seeking after the Light. Night could mean in a time of trouble, conflicted, tossed, broken hearted, in need, shrouded in darkness and seeking the way to be delivered out from the darkness of the night season …into the Day. Important is Nicodemus seeks…in the night to speak with Christ who is the Light that shines unto those who are in darkness. Yes, I think it is more than Nicodemus being afraid of being seen with Him which maybe that is true because of men being afraid to come to the light that their deeds which are evil be made known. Loving the darkness more than the Light, they refuse to come to the light. But Nicodemus sought Christ out in the night…makes more sense than Nicodemus sought Christ out in the daylight…because without Christ there is no light. So Nicodemus seeks in the night for the Light to speak to Him.

I like this, thank you

 

[Ritajanice]

We must first of all learn just how corrupt we are to put Christ back on the cross for us

What does this mean, @Hepzibah ?

 

[rwb]

The word of God says, we must be Born Again by the Spirit.

Can you please explain what you mean by morally re- born to enter?....as God’s word doesn’t say that.

Feel free to ask me any questions you like from what I post as well....as we are all learning.

I’m learning how to address members respectfully as well....I let myself down yesterday and lost the plot...new day today to start afresh....Praise God.

While in agreement I believe there is even more to understand about how humans might enter into the Kingdom of God. Because we don't enter the Kingdom of God physically, but spiritually. Nicodemus couldn't understand because he, like most of the Jews were looking for the Messiah to come in a physical/material Kingdom to rule like King David did with military power and strength.

Nicodemus thought, since the Kingdom of God the Messiah was to establish in Jerusalem of old was suppose to be a physical Kingdom, Nicodemus did not understand why it would be necessary or even possible to enter into the Kingdom of God by being physically born again. Because that's what Nicodemus thought Christ meant when He said except a man be born again he can neither see nor enter the Kingdom of God. IOW Christ was telling Nicodemus the Kingdom of God is NOT a physical Kingdom but a spiritual Kingdom. For that reason a man must be born again, meaning he must be born of water and the Spirit of Christ to both see (understand) and enter (spiritually) the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Nicodemus thought Christ was speaking of physically entering again into his mother's womb. But Christ was speaking of spiritual birth through water and Spirit when He says, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

For man to understand and enter the spiritual Kingdom of God that Christ came with, how is man born of 'water' and 'Spirit' thereby being born again or born from above?

To be born of 'water' I don't believe Christ is speaking of physical birth. Physical water represents natural, physical birth, but Christ was showing us it is NOT through natural, physical birth that we might enter into the Kingdom of God. We must be born of the water that brings spiritual life, not physical life. The water of life or the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for Christ tells us we must believe in Him, for He is eternal life for all who believe. We believe through faith! Faith that comes by hearing the Word. We must have Living Water, which is to have Christ through His Spirit to both understand and enter the spiritual Kingdom of God for eternal life in Him.

Romans 10:13-17 (KJV) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 4:10 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
John 4:11 (KJV) The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

John 4:14 (KJV) But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I like this, thank you

Thank you I like it too. It’s hopeful to me and a good reminder this morning.

 

[Behold]

I agree that we receive the Holy Spirit at the first encounter with Christ but we are not baptized or saturated. He cannot dwell within us if we still sin though he is with us.

Nonsense.

Listen.

To be "born again:" is this..

God's Holy Spirit, BIRTH's the spirit in a believer, into God's Holy Spirit.

"God is A SPIRIT"

This is "Spiritual Union" with God.. This is to become "in Christ"... This is to become...>"one with God"

This is not semi-complete. This is not...a process... This is a BIRTH, in the Spirit, by The Spirit of God.

You dont work for it, and you can't lose it, by behavior issues that you might experience later.

"Born again" is not something you can end, as its something that God Completed.

To become a Son/Daughter of God, is COMPLETED, as "born again " = A "new Creation" In Christ ..."one with God".

Its FINISHED.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Wanted to post an actual thread to discuss the words of Jesus in John 3. This thread is open to all discussion and it is encouraged, unlike another thread on the same topic.

I took this from my notes I had for my mend bible study a few weeks ago. I will post in short segments so as to not go to far and allow discussion

John 3:
3 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

Notice that he comes at night. He does not want to be seen with him, especially as a pharisee. But he shows he is a seeker. And he comes to get answers.

we must also notice what he says,, He has seen the miracles Jesus has performed. and these miracles he understands are from God.. so he comes to Jesus with this in mind (we know what you do comes from God)

We also must note. As a pharisee, and all Jew2s. They were looking for the messiah, But as a ruler (king messiah) not a savior (suffering servant) the hidden mystery which paul spoke of..

knowing this, we must see that Nicodemus Saw messiah as coming to set up his kingdom. Free Israel from Roman oppression. Restore them to their glory , set up a physical kingdom

We also need to remember, the OT prophet said about the day of the lord. How the blind will see. The lame will walk etc etc.. all things which Nicodemus has said.. which is why he came

this sets us up for the context of the whole discussion. Jesus makes the following statement

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Jesus understood Nicodemus was looking for a physical king and kingdom. Jesus is going to redirect him to look for the kingdom which counts. And he opens by saying ye must be born again.

here is the basis for which the conversation which takes place stands,,

Jesus will first answer what he means

He will then explain how it is accomplished

I look forward to open discussion

Yes, thank you for this commentary and this thread. My understanding of Jesus is predicated on a particular meaning of the word "see", which I will high light below.

Options for the meaning of "see" :
1. see = witness or experience the kingdom after the second coming.
2. see = witness or experience the kingdom at the moment Jesus performs the miracles.

I believe Jesus meant the second option. A person can't recognize or identify the kingdom of God unless God has opened his or her eyes and ears, which he describes as "born again."

Jesus is essentially saying to Nicodemus, "You can recognize the kingdom of God when you see it because God has opened your eyes and ears." Nicodemus can see it, even though others can't see it.

As a Bible Student Nicodemus should have known this because the prophets say that the kingdom will be inaugurated by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. At that time, many more of his kinsmen will be born again.

 

[Ritajanice]

While in agreement I believe there is even more to understand about how humans might enter into the Kingdom of God. Because we don't enter the Kingdom of God physically, but spiritually. Nicodemus couldn't understand because he, like most of the Jews were looking for the Messiah to come in a physical/material Kingdom to rule like King David did with military power and strength.

My belief.

We can only enter into God’s Kingdom by the spiritual birth, which is a supernatural act that only God can do through the Holy Spirit,....and yes the living water of God’s word, which of course gives life to our spirit...we feed on his word the Holy Spirit who feeds us what we need to be fed.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe Jesus meant the second option. A person can't recognize or identify the kingdom of God unless God has opened his or her eyes and ears, which he describes as "born again."

AMEN!!!