John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus

[Ritajanice]

Online source.

The Calling​

It is only because of God’s love, not ours, that we were saved (Rom 5:7-8). This leaves no room for us to brag about it (1 Cor 4:7). Only God can change a person’s heart to whichever way He pleases (Prov 21:1), so when the Scriptures says that “The Lord opened [Lydia’s] heart,” this means that she could not have opened her own heart to receive the gospel. It had to be an act of God, and it was. Those who are walking according to the course of this world are as good as dead, and can only be quickened by God’s Spirit (Eph 2:1-6), so it wasn’t Paul’s apologetics or powerful persuasion that made Lydia believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The verse I refer to is in Acts 16:14 where it says,“The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul” (Acts 16:14). Paul didn’t convert Lydia. God did, but God did use Paul as a means to do so, and He can use you too! God opened her heart…but she paid attention to what Paul said. It’s highly likely that Paul used Scripture to prove that Jesus is the Messiah, and the Son of God. Jesus said, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day” (John 6:44), and the fact that Jesus said, “no one can,” leaves no room for exceptions. To think that we could come to God on our own is like expecting Lazarus to cooperate in Jesus resurrecting him. Unless God calls and regenerates someone by His Spirit, and through His Word; and unless God grants them repentance (Acts 5:31, 11:18, 16:14, 2 Tim 2:24-26), no one at all can come to the Father. That’s only possible through Jesus Christ and Him alone (Acts 4:12).

 

[rwb]

Oh right, ok...

Baptism in the Spirit, after we have become Born Again...is that the second birth and what does it mean?

To be born again IS baptism of the Holy Spirit! When we believe in Christ it is through the power of the Spirit coming in us and giving us a new heart/spirit by grace through faith. Without the power of the Gospel and Spirit none would be eternally saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nonsense.

can we please try to get away with this type of discussion..

 

[Hepzibah]

Nonsense.

Listen.

To be "born again:" is this..

God's Holy Spirit, BIRTH's the spirit in a believer, into God's Holy Spirit.

"God is A SPIRIT"

This is "Spiritual Union" with God.. This is to become "in Christ"... This is to become...>"one with God"

This is not semi-complete. This is not...a process... This is a BIRTH, in the Spirit, by The Spirit of God.

You dont work for it, and you can't lose it, by behavior issues that you might experience later.

"Born again" is not something you can end, as its something that God Completed.

To become a Son/Daughter of God, is COMPLETED, as "born again " = A "new Creation" In Christ ..."one with God".

Its FINISHED.

Yes I do understand the Reformed position on this as I am an exCalvinist. The words you quote are correct but taken out of context. Scripture must be discerned regarding which stage believers are in. Deterministic theology was fought against till Augustine came along and poisoned the church.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, thank you for this commentary and this thread. My understanding of Jesus is predicated on a particular meaning of the word "see", which I will high light below.

Options for the meaning of "see" :
1. see = witness or experience the kingdom after the second coming.
2. see = witness or experience the kingdom at the moment Jesus performs the miracles.

I believe Jesus meant the second option. A person can't recognize or identify the kingdom of God unless God has opened his or her eyes and ears, which he describes as "born again."

Jesus is essentially saying to Nicodemus, "You can recognize the kingdom of God when you see it because God has opened your eyes and ears." Nicodemus can see it, even though others can't see it.

As a Bible Student Nicodemus should have known this because the prophets say that the kingdom will be inaugurated by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. At that time, many more of his kinsmen will be born again.

did you mean the first coming?

edit. sorry, I misred you, forgive me, i see what your saying now..

 

[Ritajanice]

To be born again IS baptism of the Holy Spirit! When we believe in Christ it is through the power of the Spirit coming in us and giving us a new heart/spirit by grace through faith. Without the power of the Gospel and Spirit none would be eternally saved.

I never read any bible before I became born again..supernaturally birthed in the Spirit..in fact I’ve never read a bible in my life....God doesn’t need anyone to read a bible, for him to birth them in the Spirit ....
God isn’t a book, he’s a Living Spirit with great power beyond our comprehension.
However..before we can be birthed we must believe in the Name of Jesus, even then it was God who popped Jesus into my mind at the perfect time.

Once I was birthed in the Spirit, as God had testified with my spirit that I was his child, he opened my heart to receive his word..and boy did I receive it, it was like a bolt of powerful Lightning.

That is when I went out and bought a Bible.

 

[Behold]

Yes I do understand the Reformed position on this as I am an exCalvinist. The words you quote are correct but taken out of context. Scripture must be discerned regarding which stage believers are in. Deterministic theology was fought against till Augustine came along and poisoned the church.

The reason i dont ever use other so called "scholars" quotes or "original greek baloney" .... OR>... try to prove anything using "church fathers" is because that is how the unlearned, regarding Spiritual Discernment, "speaK".

God uses the Bible, and the Holy Spirit, and a real Teacher.
Real Students of the word do the same.

A.) Final answer.

SEE, you are claiming "bible discernment", by using as your proof, "church scholarship" and apparently "cult of Mary", nonsense.

That's a fail., every time.

So, Would you like to know how to now go and learn the Scriptures. ?

Learn this... and stay there for life.

1 Corinthians 4:16

Hebrews 13:9

Romans 3:21-28

2nd Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes I do understand the Reformed position on this as I am an exCalvinist. The words you quote are correct but taken out of context. Scripture must be discerned regarding which stage believers are in. Deterministic theology was fought against till Augustine came along and poisoned the church.

Again, can we try to keep denomination talk out of this. I want this to be an open thread where we look at what people see and discuss it.. Not talk about what men long since dead had to say about it.

Thank you

 

[Hepzibah]

how was you cleansed of any sins, even if you think it was only past?

Corrected. I was forgiven.

 

[amadeus]

I will stop here and open it up to discussion.

You need to emphasize that the atonement by the high priest once a year was a temporary thing. It made possible a temporary connection with God. A more permanent connection would be possible only when Jesus brought the possibility of Life so that people need never to die again.

Joh 11:26

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To be born again IS baptism of the Holy Spirit! When we believe in Christ it is through the power of the Spirit coming in us and giving us a new heart/spirit by grace through faith. Without the power of the Gospel and Spirit none would be eternally saved.

Is this not the anointing (coming on or in) of the HS and not the baptism.

I think alot of people get this confused.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Can you show this from the bible?

I'm not sure what you are asking but if you are asking a question about how Jesus and his kinsmen marked time, I discovered a few verses that might help. I did a study on time while I was writing the script for my video on the crucifixion of Jesus.

Jesus once asked, "are there not 12 hours in a day?" He also told a parable about workers who entered the workforce at different times of the day, some of them began work at the "eleventh hour" indicating an hour before the end of the work day. There are Biblical references indicating that "evening" began at sunset. Other verses indicate that the night was divided up into four watches. Since the night was 12 hours long, a watch is probably three hours in duration. The evening is probably the first hour of the night.

I am being brief on purpose. Don't want to bog down the discussion.

John 11:9

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Corrected. I was forgiven.

how. what happened? Sorry I ask so many questions

 

[rwb]

ok, another question

if our spirit is dead.. what form of "higher walk" does it take for that spirit to be made alive?

Our spirit is dead in trespasses and sins! Being sold out in trespasses and sins means we have no ability to respond to Christ for salvation. Our natural/fleshly/sinful spirit must be 'quickened' or taken from being sold out to trespasses and sins, to being 'made alive' in Christ. This is to receive spiritual birth from above when through the power of the Gospel preached and the Holy Spirit we receive a new heart, and mind which being spiritually dead, are then spiritually alive. Our natural spirit or breath of life equates to a natural heart and mind that loves this world and the things in it. Our spirit/breath of life changed by the power of the Gospel and Spirit supernaturally is how we MUST enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God to have everlasting life through Him. Once our natural spirit is supernaturally changed is a one time act according to God's grace through faith.

 

[Hepzibah]

how. what happened? Sorry I ask so many questions

You were correct.

 

[Ritajanice]

God’s word says it much better than I said it..( bolt of lightning)

His word is much more powerful than that!!...

Hebrews 4:12​

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

While in agreement I believe there is even more to understand about how humans might enter into the Kingdom of God. Because we don't enter the Kingdom of God physically, but spiritually. Nicodemus couldn't understand because he, like most of the Jews were looking for the Messiah to come in a physical/material Kingdom to rule like King David did with military power and strength.

Nicodemus thought, since the Kingdom of God the Messiah was to establish in Jerusalem of old was suppose to be a physical Kingdom, Nicodemus did not understand why it would be necessary or even possible to enter into the Kingdom of God by being physically born again. Because that's what Nicodemus thought Christ meant when He said except a man be born again he can neither see nor enter the Kingdom of God. IOW Christ was telling Nicodemus the Kingdom of God is NOT a physical Kingdom but a spiritual Kingdom. For that reason a man must be born again, meaning he must be born of water and the Spirit of Christ to both see (understand) and enter (spiritually) the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Nicodemus thought Christ was speaking of physically entering again into his mother's womb. But Christ was speaking of spiritual birth through water and Spirit when He says, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

For man to understand and enter the spiritual Kingdom of God that Christ came with, how is man born of 'water' and 'Spirit' thereby being born again or born from above?

To be born of 'water' I don't believe Christ is speaking of physical birth. Physical water represents natural, physical birth, but Christ was showing us it is NOT through natural, physical birth that we might enter into the Kingdom of God. We must be born of the water that brings spiritual life, not physical life. The water of life or the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for Christ tells us we must believe in Him, for He is eternal life for all who believe. We believe through faith! Faith that comes by hearing the Word. We must have Living Water, which is to have Christ through His Spirit to both understand and enter the spiritual Kingdom of God for eternal life in Him.

Romans 10:13-17 (KJV) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 4:10 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
John 4:11 (KJV) The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

John 4:14 (KJV) But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Amen. Well stated as the word explains.
Too many rather fear the wellspring of the water of life that Jesus IS & gives to those whom seek him through the word. They fear that it will expose their true sin of unbelief.
They are content instead to swim on the surface rather than taking the deep dive into the study of the word of God!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You need to emphasize that the atonement by the high priest once a year was a temporary thing. It made possible a temporary connection with God. A more permanent connection would be possible only when Jesus brought the possibility of Life so that people need never to die again.

Joh 11:26

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

yes, The high priest only gave termporary once a year.

Christ died once. for all time.

That is later in the chapter though

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm not sure what you are asking but if you are asking a question about how Jesus and his kinsmen marked time, I discovered a few verses that might help. I did a study on time while I was writing the script for my video on the crucifixion of Jesus.

Jesus once asked, "are there not 12 hours in a day?" He also told a parable about workers who entered the workforce at different times of the day, some of them began work at the "eleventh hour" indicating an hour before the end of the work day. There are Biblical references indicating that "evening" began at sunset. Other verses indicate that the night was divided up into four watches. Since the night was 12 hours long, a watch is probably three hours in duration. The evening is probably the first hour of the night.

I am being brief on purpose. Don't want to bog down the discussion.

John 11:9

I was asking about this statement

Jesus saw that he man was living a double life which caused his problems. He would have been constantly watching his tongue amongst the other Jews and even more so when he was a leader. What a terrible life!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Our spirit is dead in trespasses and sins! Being sold out in trespasses and sins means we have no ability to respond to Christ for salvation. Our natural/fleshly/sinful spirit must be 'quickened' or taken from being sold out to trespasses and sins, to being 'made alive' in Christ. This is to receive spiritual birth from above when through the power of the Gospel preached and the Holy Spirit we receive a new heart, and mind which being spiritually dead, are then spiritually alive. Our natural spirit or breath of life equates to a natural heart and mind that loves this world and the things in it. Our spirit/breath of life changed by the power of the Gospel and Spirit supernaturally is how we MUST enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God to have everlasting life through Him. Once our natural spirit is supernaturally changed is a one time act according to God's grace through faith.

can you show this in John 3?