Israel is Babylon the Great!

[Earburner]

This is a lie.

^(Referencing to my post #148)

Please see Mat. 3
[11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

[Ronald Nolette]

^(Referencing to my post #148)

Please see Mat. 3
[11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Well as you have seem to forgotten that when John spoke this, the church had not yet been born. We do not receive JOhns Baptsim but the Baptism Jesus commanded here:

Matthew 28:18-20

King James Version

​

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

One is not saved unless they are Baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ.

 

[Earburner]

One is not saved unless they are Baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ.

I'm glad you said that, because it's not the church that baptises anyone with the Holy Spirit of God, but rather Jesus.
There are MANY that go through the waters of baptism being totally ignorant of the fact that one must come to Jesus Himself, one on one by committing to Him, and not a church.
John 14:23; Rev. 3:20. Because if they DON'T, they then end up being an "empty" believer, having not the Spirit of Christ, aka a "foolish virgin". Rom. 8:9.

 

[Earburner]

Even the the OC saints had to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but only AFTER Jesus was glorified in His Resurrection, for the Holy Spirit WAS NOT YET GIVEN [to anyone] John 7:39. We see that taking place in Rev. 6:9-11. All of such are the symbolic 144,000, and ever since Jesus' Ascension, they are now resting (asleep) in Jesus, waiting also for His Glorious and Immortal return.

 

[Earburner]

I will put this forward, Israel is regards to Nathaniel ?
Jesus said of Nathaniel that he was a true Israelite, every Christian should know all about Nathaniel or you are not worthy of what Israel truly means, Jesus pointed such out in fact regarding Nathaniel ! Now what would Nathaniel see ? Don't you see that ?

(^ Ref. Post #154)
Yes!! And let us all not forget Simeon, who was given by the Holy Spirit, that he would see the Savior before his death. Luke 2:25-35
Nathaniel and Simeon both were examples of the Israel of faith, who were looking for "the Promise to come", the Messiah Jesus.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm glad you said that, because it's not the church that baptises anyone with the Holy Spirit of God, but rather Jesus.
There are MANY that go through the waters of baptism being totally ignorant of the fact that one must come to Jesus Himself, one on one by committing to Him, and not a church.
John 14:23; Rev. 3:20. Because if they DON'T, they then end up being an "empty" believer, having not the Spirit of Christ, aka a "foolish virgin". Rom. 8:9.

Well Baptism in water saves not. Simply praying a prayer saves ot. Trusting in the death and physical resurrection of Jesus as the acceptable payment for ones sin debt is what saves a soul.

 

[Earburner]

Well Baptism in water saves not. Simply praying a prayer saves ot. Trusting in the death and physical resurrection of Jesus as the acceptable payment for ones sin debt is what saves a soul.

And Mat. 3:11 says exactly what John the baptist said about the church (?),.... or was he speaking about Jesus? Mat. 3:11.

See also Rom. 8:8-9, 1 John 5:12-13 and Rev. 3:20.

---

 

[PinSeeker]

Conclusion:

Ah yes... the conclusion... :)

Since Israel is Babylon the Great...

You might also just as well say "Since Jesus is Satan..." Which... I would recommend strongly against. :)

...it means that Israel no longer belongs to God...

Time after time throughout the Bible we are told that God's Israel, which will ultimately consist of true Jews (Romans 2:28-29) an innumerable multitude of people from every tongue, tribe, and nation (Revelation 7, 14) ~ this is His true Israel ~ is what He is building and providing salvation for, saving unto Himself, for His glory...

...Jesus declared that the Jews have lost the kingdom of God (Matthew 21:43) and he called them devil's children (John 8:44).

Unbelievers, yes, symbolically "residents" not of true Israel or true Jerusalem, but of Babylon the great, the "worldly city"... all the ones who, as Paul says in Romans 1, "...although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions..."

All this means that dispensationalism must be false and Fulfillment Theology is true. Fulfillment Theology is often called "replacement theology" by dispensationalists. The Bible declares that the true descendants of Abraham, and thus the heirs of the promises, are the Christians (Galatians 3:29), which confirms the Fulfillment Theology.

Well, agreed on dispensationalism, but "replacement theology" assumes that only believers in New Testament times are Christians ~ in Christ ~ which is false. The Bible declares ~ Paul declares, specifically ~ that the true descendants of Abraham (and yes, heirs of the promises) are all those in Christ from the time of Adam, which is to say even the true Israelites in Old Testament times ~ before Jesus walked the earth, believers in the prophesied Savior/Messiah to come ~ were in Christ and therefore grafted in to the Vine (Jesus, of course) and therefore Christians. This might much more correctly be called "inclusion theology," as, since Jesus came has included Gentile believers. So both dispensationalism and "fulfillment theology" are false. :)

This knowledge was given to me by Jesus Christ. All praise is due to Him.

Well, I agree that all praise and honor is due only to Christ, but I would humbly submit that the "knowledge" you impart ~ at least on this subject ~ is not from Him at all. The evil one counterfeits Jesus in a great number of ways...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And Mat. 3:11 says exactly what John the baptist said about the church (?),.... or was he speaking about Jesus? Mat. 3:11.

See also Rom. 8:8-9, 1 John 5:12-13 and Rev. 3:20.

---

John in Matt. 3 was announcing the Kingdom at hand for the Kiong was present. This was the announcement of the prophesied kingdom God will give to Israel. It was taken from that generation due to Matt. 12 sin and will be given to another generation of Israel.

I agree with you on Romans and 1 JOhn, but Rev. 3:20 Jesus is knocking on the door of the unsaved, not the church.

 

[Earburner]

John in Matt. 3 was announcing the Kingdom at hand for the Kiong was present. This was the announcement of the prophesied kingdom God will give to Israel. It was taken from that generation due to Matt. 12 sin and will be given to another generation of Israel.

I agree with you on Romans and 1 JOhn, but Rev. 3:20 Jesus is knocking on the door of the unsaved, not the church.

Sorry, your first paragraph missed it, as to what Jesus shall do for all who personally invite Him into their life.
The church cannot give the Holy Spirit of God to anyone!! Only Jesus does. For that we must ASK! Luke 11:13

Those who have repented, and do believe, but HAVE NOT invited Jesus into their life, are the "foolish virgins", and therefore are EQUAL as the unsaved.
Rom. 8:9

Rev. 3
[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked [unclothed with the Righteousness of God].

 

[mailmandan]

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[Ronald Nolette]

Sorry, your first paragraph missed it, as to what Jesus shall do for all who personally invite Him into their life.
The church cannot give the Holy Spirit of God to anyone!! Only Jesus does. For that we must ASK! Luke 11:13

Those who have repented, and do believe, but HAVE NOT invited Jesus into their life, are the "foolish virgins", and therefore are EQUAL as the unsaved.
Rom. 8:9

Rev. 3
[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked [unclothed with the Righteousness of God].

Well repented and believed = salvation. It is the definition of inviting Jesus to be their savior. I think you are parsing words too too narrowly in the modern use and forgetting the biblical use.

And my first paragraph was specifically speaking to what John the Baptist was busy doing.

Of course the church cannot give the Holy Spirit to anyone. I never said that. It is the Holy Spirit who birthed the church! And it is the Holy spirit who adds members to the body of Christ! By your words you make it so that one can repent and believe and not be saved until they ask the Holy Spirit to come. this is unbiblical.

 

[Earburner]

Well repented and believed = salvation. It is the definition of inviting Jesus to be their savior. I think you are parsing words too too narrowly in the modern use and forgetting the biblical use.

And my first paragraph was specifically speaking to what John the Baptist was busy doing.

Of course the church cannot give the Holy Spirit to anyone. I never said that. It is the Holy Spirit who birthed the church! And it is the Holy spirit who adds members to the body of Christ! By your words you make it so that one can repent and believe and not be saved until they ask the Holy Spirit to come. this is unbiblical.

Only God knows the intentions of one's heart, of why a person professes to believe in Jesus. The question is, was it motivated by the flesh, or by the Spirit. Those looking on may never know if a person had a "one on one" with Jesus or not. However, their testimony, or lack thereof, will reveal it either way.
John 4
[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him MUST worship him in spirit and in truth.

Do you think that there may be many that are worshipping God by only their flesh?

Mat. 20
[16] So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Rom. 8:9....Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The parable of the "Wheat and tares" is a good description of those who are in the churches, who are not born again of God's Holy Spirit, but do hold office and positions.
They may have the authority of men, but not necessarily by God.
1 Cor. 2:5.

 

[Jack]

God bless Israel!

And He will too!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Only God knows the intentions of one's heart, of why a person professes to believe in Jesus. The question is, was it motivated by the flesh, or by the Spirit. Those looking on may never know if a person had a "one on one" with Jesus or not. However, their testimony, or lack thereof, will reveal it either way.
John 4
[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him MUST worship him in spirit and in truth.

Do you think that there may be many that are worshipping God by only their flesh?

Mat. 20
[16] So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Rom. 8:9....Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The parable of the "Wheat and tares" is a good description of those who are in the churches, who are not born again of God's Holy Spirit, but do hold office and positions.
They may have the authority of men, but not necessarily by God.
1 Cor. 2:5.

All you sasid is true. but this is a gap between believers and unbelievers who may look saved.

Teh Holy Spirit is given once one trusts in the death and resurrection of Jesus for their salvation.

 

[Earburner]

God bless Israel!

And He will too!

Apparently, you have not studied and digested all of Rom. 9.
Israel as a chosen people of God came to It's end in 70AD.
However, since Pentecost, they each must now come to Christ for their salvation. If not, then they each, for all who refuse, remain under the judgment of God as it is for every Gentile who does the same.
John 3
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Rom. 10
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
> All, both Jew and Gentile, who do come to Jesus, since Pentecost, are of "the Great Multitude".

 

[Jack]

Apparently, you have not studied and digested all of Rom. 9.
Israel as a chosen people of God came to It's end in 70AD.

No proof? Of course not. There isn't any.

However, since Pentecost, they each must now come to Christ for their salvation. If not, then they each, for all who refuse, remain under the judgment of God as it is for every Gentile who does the same.
John 3
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Rom. 10
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
> All, both Jew and Gentile, who do come to Jesus, since Pentecost, are of "the Great Multitude".

Guess where Jesus will return. It's called ISRAEL!

 

[Earburner]

No proof? Of course not. There isn't any.

Guess where Jesus will return. It's called ISRAEL!

Acts 1
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
[12] Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
> Where does it say that Jesus shall return in all His Immortal Glory to Mt. Olive in Israel?
It doesn't.

 

[Jack]

Acts 1
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
[12] Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
> Where does it say that Jesus shall return in all His Immortal Glory to Mt. Olive in Israel?
It doesn't.

It does indeed.

Zechariah 14
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, ...
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

 

[Earburner]

No proof? Of course not. There isn't any.

Rom. 3

[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom. 10
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
> Do you believe that a Gentile will be saved without faith in the Lord Jesus?
If not, then why do you believe that Israel will be saved without faith in Jesus Christ?

You are declaring that there is a difference between Jews and Gentiles, and therefore you are denying God's judgment in scripture.