The 144,000 before God at the end.

[The Light]

You cling to it, it clings to you.

Simply declare that you no longer believe it, and eliminate it from your posts, and I will no longer refer to it as "yours".

Deal?

There is a large group of believers that believe they have replaced Israel in Gods prophetic plan. The belief was birthed by men that didn't believe that God could keep His Word to His Chosen. There was no nation of Israel, so they proclaimed that the Church has replaced Israel.

Do you think that God is going to honor these unbelieving men?

Since 1948 there has been a nation of Israel. You would think that FACT would make some realize that they have not replaced Israel in Gods prophetic plan.

There are five wise virgins and five foolish virgins. The wise are watching and ready for the coming of the bridegroom, as the bridegroom has declared that He is coming in an hour that we think not. The foolish think that the bridegroom comes after the tribulation and after the wrath of God has begun. It would be wise to get ready.

 

[The Light]

The Church suffers "great tribulation" in this world, and when the last trumpet begins to sound the Church will be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air as the WRATH of God against this world and whosoever is left on earth, shall be consumed by the fire of God that comes down from heaven! You really have no understanding of "great tribulation" because you are too blind to realize "great tribulation" Christ warned His saints would be, has been here from the beginning. Even the first century disciples suffered "great tribulation", but Christians shall not suffer the wrath of God that comes against this world of unbelievers and the demonic hosts.

The Church will be in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. The great tribulation will be OVER at the 6th seal. There will be a harvest at that time. Then the wrath of God will begin when the first trumpet of wrath sounds.

That is what the Word says. Some see, some don't. There are five wise and five foolish.

 

[rwb]

The Church will not go through the tribulation, let alone the wrath of God.

You can't figure out the trumpets are Gods wrath. Simple as that.

How can anyone take you seriously when you don't even recognize that the Church (Christians) have been suffering from "great tribulation" from the beginning. What would you call the stoning to death of Stephen, God's faithful martyr who kept the faith unto death? And he was just the beginning of "great tribulation" being leveled against the Church on earth as She faithfully proclaims the Gospel unto all the world!

Acts 7:59 (KJV) And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

 

[rwb]

The Church will be in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. The great tribulation will be OVER at the 6th seal. There will be a harvest at that time. Then the wrath of God will begin when the first trumpet of wrath sounds.

That is what the Word says. Some see, some don't. There are five wise and five foolish.

Either bring verification from Scripture to prove what you imagine, or simply stop trying to speak of things you appear to have no understanding of! All you have are unbiblical OPINIONS!

 

[rebuilder 454]

I am glad that I can just read it and let those words be true.
I don't need "after" to mean anything but "after" in mat 24
I don't need "before" to mean anything but "before" in Matthew 24

^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^

 

[rwb]

The Church will be in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. The great tribulation will be OVER at the 6th seal. There will be a harvest at that time. Then the wrath of God will begin when the first trumpet of wrath sounds.

That is what the Word says. Some see, some don't. There are five wise and five foolish.

Christ, in His Olivet Discourse, speaking to first century saints tells them they would see/understand abomination of desolation ordained to come. After telling them and whosoever reads, of what was soon to come to pass, Christ says to them/us "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." When did THEN begin with these first century disciples of Christ? Was Christ not warning them as well as whosoever reads that "great tribulation" will be the lot in life for the faithful?

 

[David in NJ]

^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^

Correct

Matthew ch24 gives us CLEAR instruction.

AFTER the Tribulation, the LORD Returns/Second Coming to gather His Elect BEFORE He pours out His Wrath.

You do agree with the words of Christ - YES???

 

[Timtofly]

The Church suffers "great tribulation" in this world, and when the last trumpet begins to sound the Church will be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air as the WRATH of God against this world and whosoever is left on earth, shall be consumed by the fire of God that comes down from heaven! You really have no understanding of "great tribulation" because you are too blind to realize "great tribulation" Christ warned His saints would be, has been here from the beginning. Even the first century disciples suffered "great tribulation", but Christians shall not suffer the wrath of God that comes against this world of unbelievers and the demonic hosts.

That is why the tribulation of those days ends at the rapture and Second Coming, the 6th Seal. Then Jacob's trouble begins, the GT. The Church is gone, and now we see Jesus as King with all the angels on the earth. The 144k are also with Jesus wherever He goes. The sheep and goats are gathered during the Trumpets. The tares and wheat are gathered during the Thunders. That is the final harvest.

Then during the week of the 7th Trumpet, after 3.5 days, Satan may be given 42 months of AoD. That is the harvest of the beheaded souls. When the 42 months are finished, the 7 vials of God's wrath is poured out onto what is left of Satan's Babylonian Empire.

John clearly shows us 3 sets of events that are seperate from the vials of God's wrath. They are even seperate from each other. Except some try to claim they all happen instantly in the same moment of time.

The church is not part of the final harvest. No one is except Jesus, the 144k, and the angels. And we are not told what exactly the 144k even do, except they are sealed to not suffer the same affects others will face going through this time. This is a set number of humans like the 12 close disciples of Jesus at the first coming. We know there were others like the 70. So this 144k is not just symbolic of millions on earth. This is the inner circle of humans working with Jesus at the Second Coming. The 12 disciples were not symbolic of the 70 nor the entire church of the first century. They were 12 literal humans, and the 144k will be literal humans just like the original 12 disciples. Jesus will be on the earth gathering the final harvest and sitting in judgment. The first coming was physically and in person. The Second Coming is no different. Except this time it is for the entire earth, not just His chosen people He was born into.

 

[David in NJ]

That is why the tribulation of those days ends at the rapture and Second Coming, the 6th Seal. Then Jacob's trouble begins, the GT. The Church is gone, and now we see Jesus as King with all the angels on the earth. The 144k are also with Jesus wherever He goes. The sheep and goats are gathered during the Trumpets. The tares and wheat are gathered during the Thunders. That is the final harvest.

Then during the week of the 7th Trumpet, after 3.5 days, Satan may be given 42 months of AoD. That is the harvest of the beheaded souls. When the 42 months are finished, the 7 vials of God's wrath is poured out onto what is left of Satan's Babylonian Empire.

John clearly shows us 3 sets of events that are seperate from the vials of God's wrath. They are even seperate from each other. Except some try to claim they all happen instantly in the same moment of time.

The church is not part of the final harvest. No one is except Jesus, the 144k, and the angels. And we are not told what exactly the 144k even do, except they are sealed to not suffer the same affects others will face going through this time. This is a set number of humans like the 12 close disciples of Jesus at the first coming. We know there were others like the 70. So this 144k is not just symbolic of millions on earth. This is the inner circle of humans working with Jesus at the Second Coming. The 12 disciples were not symbolic of the 70 nor the entire church of the first century. They were 12 literal humans, and the 144k will be literal humans just like the original 12 disciples. Jesus will be on the earth gathering the final harvest and sitting in judgment. The first coming was physically and in person. The Second Coming is no different. Except this time it is for the entire earth, not just His chosen people He was born into.

Rapture Truth 101 - It is IMPOSSIBLE for the rapture to occur BEFORE the Resurrection = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

 

[covenantee]

There is a large group of believers that believe they have replaced Israel in Gods prophetic plan. The belief was birthed by men that didn't believe that God could keep His Word to His Chosen. There was no nation of Israel, so they proclaimed that the Church has replaced Israel.

Do you think that God is going to honor these unbelieving men?

Since 1948 there has been a nation of Israel. You would think that FACT would make some realize that they have not replaced Israel in Gods prophetic plan.

There are five wise virgins and five foolish virgins. The wise are watching and ready for the coming of the bridegroom, as the bridegroom has declared that He is coming in an hour that we think not. The foolish think that the bridegroom comes after the tribulation and after the wrath of God has begun. It would be wise to get ready.

Please respond to post 1273.

Israel is not prevented from coming to Christ, to which multitudes of Jews who have received Him testify.

No one denied them, and no one can deny them, a place at the Cross.

They are therefore not replaced.

 

[Timtofly]

Oh.

Okay.

The green bucket will fly over the moon when the cow lands on the tractor.

Next time I won't ask.

So your Bible has green buckets, and tractors?

I pointed out what it reads in the Bible that most people can look up for themselves. You have what, a blink of an eye, and it is over?

 

[Timtofly]

Rapture Truth 101 - It is IMPOSSIBLE for the rapture to occur BEFORE the Resurrection = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

The resurrection occurred when Jesus told Lazarus to come out of his tomb. I think you are safe in that regards. The rapture did not happen prior to John 11.

 

[Timtofly]

Please respond to post 1273.

Israel is not prevented from coming to Christ, to which multitudes of Jews who have received Him testify.

No one denied them, and no one can deny them, a place at the Cross.

They are therefore not replaced.

So you think that if one becomes an Israeli citizen, that is equal to the Cross? Since you have not replaced that sentiment, allegedly?

If you claim there are 2 Israels, then you have replaced the original Israel, with the 2nd Israel of your theological creation.

Being physically born into Israel is the only Israel. Many since a time thousands of years ago stopped being born into Israel. And that there is a nation, with their own territory now, God can put them back as natural branches. If you claim, no, there will not be a future Israel with natural branches, then you did replace that Israel with your own theological version of an imagined Israel.

If you claim there has only been one Israel, then you cannot replace that Israel with a temporary Israel at any point in time. Stating there are 2 Israels is making up an imaginary 2nd Israel, no matter how you spin the narrative.

 

[The Light]

Christ, in His Olivet Discourse, speaking to first century saints tells them they would see/understand abomination of desolation ordained to come. After telling them and whosoever reads, of what was soon to come to pass, Christ says to them/us "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." When did THEN begin with these first century disciples of Christ? Was Christ not warning them as well as whosoever reads that "great tribulation" will be the lot in life for the faithful?

I'm not sure the exact point you are trying to make. Are you saying the abomination of desolation has already happened?

 

[The Light]

Correct

Matthew ch24 gives us CLEAR instruction.

AFTER the Tribulation, the LORD Returns/Second Coming to gather His Elect BEFORE He pours out His Wrath.

You do agree with the words of Christ - YES???

The second coming is at the 6th seal which occurs immediately after the tribulation. Then the 7th seal is opened and wrath begins at the 1st trumpet.

The second harvest will occur at the 6th seal.

 

[covenantee]

So you think that if one becomes an Israeli citizen, that is equal to the Cross? Since you have not replaced that sentiment, allegedly?

If you claim there are 2 Israels, then you have replaced the original Israel, with the 2nd Israel of your theological creation.

Being physically born into Israel is the only Israel. Many since a time thousands of years ago stopped being born into Israel. And that there is a nation, with their own territory now, God can put them back as natural branches. If you claim, no, there will not be a future Israel with natural branches, then you did replace that Israel with your own theological version of an imagined Israel.

If you claim there has only been one Israel, then you cannot replace that Israel with a temporary Israel at any point in time. Stating there are 2 Israels is making up an imaginary 2nd Israel, no matter how you spin the narrative.

What hallucinogen are you on today?

 

[The Light]

How can anyone take you seriously when you don't even recognize that the Church (Christians) have been suffering from "great tribulation" from the beginning.

How can anyone take you seriously when you don't understand that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

What would you call the stoning to death of Stephen, God's faithful martyr who kept the faith unto death? And he was just the beginning of "great tribulation" being leveled against the Church on earth as She faithfully proclaims the Gospel unto all the world!

Acts 7:59 (KJV) And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

You have no idea what you are talking about. When the Great Tribulation occurs it will be the worst time in history. It's not about a couple of people being killed. It will be the time of Jacobs trouble. How do you not understand this?

 

[The Light]

Rapture Truth 101 - It is IMPOSSIBLE for the rapture to occur BEFORE the Resurrection = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Before "A" resurrection because the dead in Christ rise first. The resurrection of the Church is the first harvest.

 

[David in NJ]

The resurrection occurred when Jesus told Lazarus to come out of his tomb. I think you are safe in that regards. The rapture did not happen prior to John 11.

Lazarus was only a Preview of what is to Come and gives us the clear understanding of thru WHOM the Resurrection will occur.

 

[David in NJ]

The second coming is at the 6th seal which occurs immediately after the tribulation. Then the 7th seal is opened and wrath begins at the 1st trumpet.

The second harvest will occur at the 6th seal.

AGREE with you that the the 6th Seal gives us the Preview of the LORD's Second Coming, whereby the Resurrection and the following rapture will occur = just as we are told in 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians