Godslittleservant
Active Member
You say Paul did not teach baptism in the name of Christ look at Acts 19:-1-5 and Tell me where Paul says the spirit is given ?
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look in eph 1; 13 - 14You say Paul did not teach baptism in the name of Christ look at Acts 19:-1-5 and Tell me where Paul says the spirit is given ?
Ephesians 1:13-14 KJVlook in eph 1; 13 - 14
Yes just as Paul said believed included he expected them to have been baptized in the name of Christ but they hadn't been so he did it for them good scripture to back up scriptureEphesians 1:13-14 KJV
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Much love!
see in verse 13 head the gospel believed and was baptized to get the seal of the holy Spirit of promiseEphesians 1:13-14 KJV
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Much love!
Ephesians 1:9-17 KJVsee in verse 13 head the gospel believed and was baptized to get the seal of the holy Spirit of promise
almost word for word as Acts 2 and 19:1-5 and Romans 6:3ff
I was thinking that since Paul in Acts 19:1-5 already deals with how one believed was meaning including the baptism in Jesus name where the spirit was given. and wasn't it Paul that said that so it isn't most likely that is the same thing he is saying here or is it here he had a different thought .Ephesians 1:9-17 KJV
9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15) Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16) Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17) That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
"in verse 13 head the gospel believed and was baptized to get the seal of the holy Spirit of promise"
I'd suggest being careful about adding words where they do not appear.
Much love!
Let me ask you this.I was thinking that since Paul in Acts 19:1-5 already deals with how one believed was meaning including the baptism in Jesus name where the spirit was given. and wasn't it Paul that said that so it isn't most likely that is the same thing he is saying here or is it here he had a different thought .
Now we have to make scriptures harmonize so I ask myself does this not harmonize with Acts 2 Acts 19 and Romans 6 are they not all talking about the same thing? It would seem to me they are.
A command I must obey is repent also believe also confess so why is baptism any different? You do realize it is not man that does the work in baptism but God right? It is God that transforms us from being dead in sin to alive in Christ that is the work being done we only submit to God so he can do it as we are called to doLet me ask you this.
Romans 4 teaches very specifically that no work we do has any part of our being justified by God, that this happens from our faith only. How is it that you don't included water baptism as a work, something you must do, a law you must obey, in order to be justified by God, and given a new life?
Much love!
Being baptized to receive Christ is to perform an obedient act for the purpose of receiving justification and rebirth from God. Isn't it?A command I must obey is repent also believe also confess so why is baptism any different? You do realize it is not man that does the work in baptism but God right? It is God that transforms us from being dead in sin to alive in Christ that is the work being done we only submit to God so he can do it as we are called to do
Hope this does not come off as rude but truth in loveBeing baptized to receive Christ is to perform an obedient act for the purpose of receiving justification and rebirth from God. Isn't it?
Repent - metanoia - is to trade in one's mind for a new mind. This is right alongside Believe. We believe in Jesus, which is repenting from not believing in Him.
Romans 5:18-19 LITV
18) So then, as through one deviation it was toward all men to condemnation, so also through one righteous act toward all men to justification of life.
19) For as through the one man's disobedience the many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be constituted righteous.
By Adam's sin all were condemned. And so it's by Jesus' single act of righteousness - death on the cross - we are made righteous.
Even simply calling water baptism a necessary act of obedience is contradicted in the Scriptures.
Believing and repentance are what we understand, what we believe and think. First we think we are in charge of ourselves and we do what we want. But then we come to believe that Jesus is actually Lord, having the testimony that God raised Him from the dead, having the power of an endless life, and if we trust in Him, He justifies us and gives us rebirth.
Much love!
Well, again, this is what we are discussing, the question, is it actually?Hope this does not come off as rude but truth in love
"Even simply calling water baptism a necessary act of obedience is contradicted in the Scriptures."
Quite the contrary it is expressly taught but watered down by many a religious group.
Consider to whom these passages were addressed, and in what circumstances. And be very very careful to not add words to the text in your mind as you read them, just to take in what is said, and not what is not said.That is my take my be wrong but from the scriptures I read that is where I am at right now.
OK I think I see where you are going the gospel to the Jews and a separate gospel to the gentiles is that where we are headed. I never seen two different gospels during my time of study I also thought the bible taught only one gospel for the Jews and gentile alike that there is neither Jew or gentile but we are are one in Christ and the same gospel for one and all not more than one and only one plan of salvation so you will have to take the wheel and show me where I missed the teaching of two separate gospels one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles.Well, again, this is what we are discussing, the question, is it actually?
And here is a passage teaching in very specific and clear detail on this very point, what in fact is the exact thing that brings about our justification.
Consider to whom these passages were addressed, and in what circumstances. And be very very careful to not add words to the text in your mind as you read them, just to take in what is said, and not what is not said.
And consider the passages which teach salvation fully separated from our works, to whom were these addressed, in what circumstances?
And what is narrative, and what is teaching? And what was given to Isreal, and what was given to gentiles?
This answers the differences in the different passages, is what I think.
Much love!
I think that saying "two Gospels" is misleading. But just like God had one plan for Noah, and another plan for Abraham - not two Gospels -I never seen two different gospels during my time of study I also thought the bible taught only one gospel for the Jews and gentile alike that there is neither Jew or gentile but we are are one in Christ and the same gospel for one and all not more than one and only one plan of salvation so you will have to take the wheel and show me where I missed the teaching of two separate gospels one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles.
Scratch this reply got lost in the threads I was dealing with let me try again.OK I think I see where you are going the gospel to the Jews and a separate gospel to the gentiles is that where we are headed. I never seen two different gospels during my time of study I also thought the bible taught only one gospel for the Jews and gentile alike that there is neither Jew or gentile but we are are one in Christ and the same gospel for one and all not more than one and only one plan of salvation so you will have to take the wheel and show me where I missed the teaching of two separate gospels one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles.
I already have read it and it will read the same so point out your points of reference and give me details as to why it is your understanding so I can give it a good test against the spirit of the word.
My thoughts and I have no ready scriptures to support but thought everyone shared (can dig up scripture if needed) is that Gods plan from start to finish meaning the new testament church his kingdom to come was to bring all mankind unto himself (both Jew and gentile) and Jesus was sent to complete the plan.I think that saying "two Gospels" is misleading. But just like God had one plan for Noah, and another plan for Abraham - not two Gospels -
OK, starting at the beginning, God chose Israel, and gave them a covenant where if they kept their part, that they would be the head of nations, and would lend, not borrow, and be healthy, and blessed, and all the world would know their God is the True God.
In the OT, God spoke how the nations would come to Israel to find God, and through Israel, they would. The prophets foretold a time when God would come to live in Jerusalem, to rule the world from there.
Israel was promised a material kingdom which the gentiles were not. Of Israel, it was prophesied that they would be reborn and would keep all the Law. The Gentiles are told they are dead to the Law.
In both cases, we are saved by trusting, believing that what God told us was true.
What did God tell Abraham, that he believed, his believe counted by God for righteousness? Not the same thing that we were told. That he would be father of unnumerable descendants. Just that.
This does not mean there is a different plan of salvation, only that God does different things with different people at different times.
Your thoughts so far?
Much love!
Some examples of being filled with the Spirit:
Luke 1:41 Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:67 Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:15 John was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born.
Luke 4:1 Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 4:8 Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 4:31 A group of believers were all filled with the Holy Spirit.
On the other hand, baptism with the Holy Spirit was not that commonly described in the NT. It was first prophesied by John in Matthew 3:
The imagery is that the persons being baptized are fully immersed not in water but in the Holy Spirit as a spiritual reality.
The act was described only twice. The first occasion was announced by Jesus in Acts 1:5 before he is taken up. Jesus echoed John the Baptizer in Acts 1:
It happened in the next chapter at the Pentecost in Acts 2:
When it was announced, the word G907-baptise was used. But when it actually happened, the word G4130-fill was used. Baptism with the Spirit requires the filling with the Spirit.
The second occasion occurred when Peter was at Cornelius’ House. Acts 10:
Here the verb is fell and not filled. I don't think it is profitable to make a Federal case of the distinction between fell and filled here. Later Peter echoed John the Baptizer and recounted the act as being G907-baptized in the Holy Spirit in Acts 11:
Luke uses the term filled in Acts 2:4 to show that baptism with the Spirit requires filling but not vice versa. Similarly, Peter uses the term baptized in Acts 11:16 to ensure the readers that what happened at Cornelius’ House is a baptism with the Holy Spirit and not just filling (or falling).
Not every filling with the Holy Spirit is a baptism with the Spirit. Baptism with the Spirit is special as Luke and Peter wanted to make it clear. The latter may indicate being born of the Spirit.
We think of fire as a cleansing fire, so this could be when we are born again of the Spirit and freed from sin.11 “I baptize [G907] you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize [G907] you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Fire! It seems fire is associated with God's presence. Could it be the fire of love which consumes all else.......as in the crucifixion, it consumed the hate, it nullified its power so that death could not hold him.