“removed” is the word I think of.
Yes, that works well also!
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“removed” is the word I think of.
Can you demonstrate this implication?
Can you prove this implication is true by proper logical reasoning? If not, why did you use the term "implies"?Satan fell implies he was created to be something other than the murderer and liar he was from the beginning.
Can you prove this implication is true by proper logical reasoning? If not, why did you use the term "implies"?
Satan never fell He was sinning From the beginning of His creation!!!When did Satan fall?
I was interested right up to here. I look for something to be inside the heart of those whom I account true teachers, that I find missing in the heart that shows contempt for others.Silly child....
So you Stopped at Silly Child.... and that's why the term "Silly Child" is/was there! Mar 4:11I was interested right up to here. I look for something to be inside the heart of those whom I account true teachers, that I find missing in the heart that shows contempt for others.
Much love!
If you are endeavoring to change my mind, first show maturity.Silly child
I need to assume you were unable to show a rebel angel from Hebrews 2:14 and can see how the Apostle is using the word "false accuser" to be synonymous with sin. Take a look at these verses; Heb. 9:26 and Rom 5:21; 6:23 (to show that "devil" is synonymous with "sin" in Hebrews 2:14) and then compare Rom 7:17, 18.We just see things very differently.
Revelation 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Ἀβαδδών, ὁ Abaddon
Part of Speech: Proper Noun, Indeclinable
Transliteration: Abaddón
Phonetic Spelling: (ab-ad-dohn')
Definition: Abaddon, the angel of the abyss
Usage: Abaddon, Destroyer (i.e. Destroying Angel) or place of destruction (personified)
Ἀπολλύων, ονος, ὁ Apolluón
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Apolluón
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-loo'-ohn)
Definition: "a destroyer", Apollyon, the angel of the abyss
Usage: Apollyon, The Destroying One, a Greek translation of the Hebrew: Abaddon.
The manuscripts declare there is a person a entity, a angel that is evil.
The word means "adversary" so the Scripture uses the word in a positive and negative sense. You see what you want to see and not as you ought.When measured by God's standard of righteousness...Satan is never good. I know no other standard which should be used as a measure.
I use the word 'implies' because the Bible does not lend credibility to that thought. It is not reasonable to believe Satan fell from a position because in the beginning he was something other than a liar and murderer. Satan did NOT fall, he was cast out of heaven and to the earth when Christ was born.
John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
1. Where do you get he was cast out?
2. How many Fathers is Jesus referring to in John 8? (take care!)
F2F
And you are 100% certain that is what is being depicted in that highly symbolic chapter?Read Rev 12. You will see when Christ was born there was a war in heaven between Michael and his angels, and Satan and his angels, with Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and to the earth.
And you are 100% certain that is what is being depicted in that highly symbolic chapter?
"a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head"
You read this literally?
F2F
Precisely:Of course, it is all highly symbolic. Who is the woman clothed with sun and moon under her feet? What does a crown of twelve stars on her head symbolize? Who is the man child the woman brought forth? The child that was to rule the nations with a rod of iron?
To me, the text tells me what are symbols, and what they mean. Like this, a sign appeared in heaven, we know this is a symbol. And it tells us about that symbol. Sometimes we have to go to a few passages, and other times it just says straight out, like the second sign, that ancient serpent, the devil, Satan.Of course, it is all highly symbolic. Who is the woman clothed with sun and moon under her feet? What does a crown of twelve stars on her head symbolize? Who is the man child the woman brought forth? The child that was to rule the nations with a rod of iron?
To me, the text tells me what are symbols, and what they mean. Like this, a sign appeared in heaven, we know this is a symbol. And it tells us about that symbol. Sometimes we have to go to a few passages, and other times it just says straight out, like the second sign, that ancient serpent, the devil, Satan.
All that you name here, having been identified as symbols, we know what they are referring to, right? Israel? Christ?
One of the easiest ways, or so it seems to me, to deny any part of Scripture one wants to, is to declare it's a symbol when the Bible doesn't. Or even when it does, to declare a meaning that the Bible does not declare. Simply stated, to me, that lacks Scriptural authority.
Much love!
I believe that trees can sometimes symbolize men, people, or entities.Do you think there was an actual tree in an actual garden?
Much love!
Your disagreement is with Hebrew, the manuscripts, and scholars alike.I need to assume you were unable to show a rebel angel from Hebrews 2:14 and can see how the Apostle is using the word "false accuser" to be synonymous with sin. Take a look at these verses; Heb. 9:26 and Rom 5:21; 6:23 (to show that "devil" is synonymous with "sin" in Hebrews 2:14) and then compare Rom 7:17, 18.
Are we now looking at Revelation 9:11 now?
So the words false accuser (devil) or a satan (adversary) in most instances is a person (not Hebrews 2:14!), a human or a group of people.
In Revelation you have quoted different words with a different context; Abaddon & Apollyon are both name which mean destroyer.
Firstly, what is Revelation all about?
Secondly. what are the symbols of Abaddon & Apollyon represent?
You understand the symbology is speaking of human destroying powers in the earth? If you didn't and you thought this was some supernatural fallen angel then you have many problems with the text.
Do you think the bottomless pit is literal (real)?
Do you think it has a key (lol)
Do you believe the locusts are literal locusts?
Do you believe people are literally tormented with a scorpion?
Do you believe this is literal "they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions"
I could go on but you get my drift!
It's not that you think differently to me; it's that you think differently the the Word of God - someone infected your mind with lies and not that's all you see.
Maybe when you read Revelation 9 you see this:
View attachment 36965
What you dont realize is every little piece of imagery in that chapter relates to empires and history which has already past. You just dont have the keys to unlock its meaning.
Anyway, I'm reluctant to go into Revelation 9 with you as these matters are rather involved but I will send you some info to work through in your own time privately.
Good talking!
F2F
So . . . is that a yes . . . or a no?I believe that trees can sometimes symbolize men, people, or entities.
Greetings…So . . . is that a yes . . . or a no?
Much love!
Gen 2:8-9
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And [1] out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the [2] tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the [3] tree of knowledge of good and evil. (KJV)
Jesus was the Tree of Life before His time.Gen 3:3
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (KJV)