Was Satan evil in Job 1:7?
- Thread starter TonyChanYT
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
What is your experience when communicating with people who believe he fell? My experience is those who say this believe Satan is a created angel of God, but became arrogant, and defied God, causing the fall of mankind. This places man's fall and it's consequences within the power of those whom God created, the serpent and man. I believe in the Sovereignty of God over the affairs of both Satan and mankind.
I use the word 'implies' because the Bible does not lend credibility to that thought. It is not reasonable to believe Satan fell from a position because in the beginning he was something other than a liar and murderer. Satan did NOT fall, he was cast out of heaven and to the earth when Christ was born.
John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Satan never fell He was sinning From the beginning of His creation!!!
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.
Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith [Satan] that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
1Jo 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning (G746). The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
G746
ἀρχή
archē
Thayer Definition:
1) beginning, origin
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient744 serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
G744 ἀρχαῖος archaios
Thayer Definition:
that has been from the beginning, original
2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that, as the serpentG3789 deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
G3789 ὄφις óphis; gen. ópheōs, masc. noun.
A snake, serpent. The Gr. word drákōn (G1404), dragon, was a huge serpent
Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancientG744 serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Mar 4:15 And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them.
2Co 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
Heb 5:8 Though he (Jesus) were a Son, yet he (Jesus) learned obedience by the things which he suffered;
WHY???
KJV Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore7451 travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
Word Study: H7451 רע ra‛, ָרָעה
rā‛āh: An adjective meaning bad, evil.
Concordant OT Ecc 1:13 “It is an experience of evil Elohin [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.”
Think!!!
NASB Ecc 3:10 I have seen the task which God has given the sons of men with which to occupy themselves....
Ecc 3:11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity5769 in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.
KJV Ecc 3:10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it....
Ecc 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world5769 in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
H5769 עלם עולם ‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind
True... Translation; CLV bible Ecc 3:11 So God makes everything proper and appropriate for His Plan, but He has put obscurity5769 in their hearts.. so that, or in order that they cannot know or understand what it is that He is doing to them in this human existence we call life.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
You think the fall of Satan and Adam was a mistake.... Somehow Taking God by suprise... Silly child....
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
What hope???
1Ti 4:9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. 11 Command and teach these things.
Every verse I posted here is out side your Church's understanding.... They are not capable of seeing or understanding them in scripture... I'm guessing it's your first time your reading them too!
Study for yourself... don't let other tell you what to believe...
Paul
I was interested right up to here. I look for something to be inside the heart of those whom I account true teachers, that I find missing in the heart that shows contempt for others.
Much love!
So you Stopped at Silly Child.... and that's why the term "Silly Child" is/was there! Mar 4:11
What have your true teachers taught you about.....
NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
CEV Act 13:48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.
NASB Joh 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."
Do you know truth?
How does this verse fit in???
1Ti 4:9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. 10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Silly child
face2face
Well-Known Member
- Jun 22, 2015
- 4,860
- 653
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
I need to assume you were unable to show a rebel angel from Hebrews 2:14 and can see how the Apostle is using the word "false accuser" to be synonymous with sin. Take a look at these verses; Heb. 9:26 and Rom 5:21; 6:23 (to show that "devil" is synonymous with "sin" in Hebrews 2:14) and then compare Rom 7:17, 18.
Are we now looking at Revelation 9:11 now?
So the words false accuser (devil) or a satan (adversary) in most instances is a person (not Hebrews 2:14!), a human or a group of people.
In Revelation you have quoted different words with a different context; Abaddon & Apollyon are both name which mean destroyer.
Firstly, what is Revelation all about?
Secondly. what are the symbols of Abaddon & Apollyon represent?
You understand the symbology is speaking of human destroying powers in the earth? If you didn't and you thought this was some supernatural fallen angel then you have many problems with the text.
Do you think the bottomless pit is literal (real)?
Do you think it has a key (lol)
Do you believe the locusts are literal locusts?
Do you believe people are literally tormented with a scorpion?
Do you believe this is literal "they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions"
I could go on but you get my drift!
It's not that you think differently to me; it's that you think differently the the Word of God - someone infected your mind with lies and not that's all you see.
Maybe when you read Revelation 9 you see this:
What you dont realize is every little piece of imagery in that chapter relates to empires and history which has already past. You just dont have the keys to unlock its meaning.
Anyway, I'm reluctant to go into Revelation 9 with you as these matters are rather involved but I will send you some info to work through in your own time privately.
Good talking!
F2F
face2face
Well-Known Member
- Jun 22, 2015
- 4,860
- 653
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
The word means "adversary" so the Scripture uses the word in a positive and negative sense. You see what you want to see and not as you ought.
Read Rev 12. You will see when Christ was born there was a war in heaven between Michael and his angels, and Satan and his angels, with Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and to the earth.
face2face
Well-Known Member
- Jun 22, 2015
- 4,860
- 653
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
Of course, it is all highly symbolic. Who is the woman clothed with sun and moon under her feet? What does a crown of twelve stars on her head symbolize? Who is the man child the woman brought forth? The child that was to rule the nations with a rod of iron?
To me, the text tells me what are symbols, and what they mean. Like this, a sign appeared in heaven, we know this is a symbol. And it tells us about that symbol. Sometimes we have to go to a few passages, and other times it just says straight out, like the second sign, that ancient serpent, the devil, Satan.
All that you name here, having been identified as symbols, we know what they are referring to, right? Israel? Christ?
One of the easiest ways, or so it seems to me, to deny any part of Scripture one wants to, is to declare it's a symbol when the Bible doesn't. Or even when it does, to declare a meaning that the Bible does not declare. Simply stated, to me, that lacks Scriptural authority.
Much love!
I agree. I too believe the woman symbolizes the Old Covenant nation of Israel. The nation was to bring the Light of God to the earth, just as the sun and moon bring physical light to the earth. The twelve stars representing the nation from whom the Christ child would be born. I don't think there is any question as to who the great red dragon symbolizes. The text tells us in vs 9 it is that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan.
There is a passage in Genesis of Joseph having a dream that help to support this thought. The dream I believe depicts Joseph as a type or symbol for Christ in the Old. (Gen 37:5-11)
Much love to you also!
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
I believe that trees can sometimes symbolize men, people, or entities.
Your disagreement is with Hebrew, the manuscripts, and scholars alike.
Your logic simply doesn’t take these things into account.
In Genesis 3 we have neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of certain Figures of speech (see Ap. 6).
All the confusion of thought and conflicting exegesis have arisen from taking literally what is expressed by Figures, or from taking figuratively what is literal. A Figure of speech is never used except for the purpose of calling attention to, emphasizing, and intensifying, the reality of the literal sense, and the truth of the historical facts; so that, while the words employed may not be so strictly true to the letter, they are all the more true to the truth conveyed by them, and to the historical events connected with them.
But for the figurative language of verses 14 and 15 no one would have thought of referring the third chapter of Genesis to a snake : no more than he does when reading the third chapter from the end of Revelation (ch. 20:2). Indeed, the explanation added there, that the "old serpent" is the Devil and Satan, would immediately lead one to connect the word "old" with the earlier and former mention of the serpent in Gen. 3 : and the fact that it was Satan himself who tempted "the second man", "the last Adam", would force conclusion that no other than the personal Satan could have been the tempter of "the first man, Adam".
The Hebrew word rendered "serpent" in Gen. 3:1 is Nachash (from the root Nachash, to shine), and means a shining one. Hence, in Chaldee it means brass or copper, because of its shining. Hence also, the word Nehushtan, a piece of brass, in 2Kings 18:4. In the same way Saraph, in Isa. 6:2, 6, means a burning one, and, because the serpents mentioned in Num. 21 were burning, in the poison of their bite, they were called Saraphim, or Saraphs.
But with the LORD said unto Moses, "Make thee a fiery serpent" (Num. 21:8), He said, "Make thee a Saraph", and , in obeying this command, we read in v. 9, "Moses made a Nachash of brass". Nachash is thus used as being interchangeable with Saraph. Now, if Saraph is used of a serpent because its bite was burning, and is also used of a celestial or spirit-being (a burning one), why should not Nachash be used of a serpent because its appearance was shining, and be also used of a celestial or spirit-being (a shining one)?
Indeed, a reference to the structure of Gen. 3 (on p. 7) will show that the Cherubim (which are similar celestial or spirit-beings) of the last verse (Gen. 3:24) require a similar spirit-being to correspond with them in the first verse (for the structure of the whole chapter is a great Introversion). The Nachash, or serpent, who beguiled Eve (2Cor. 11:3) is not spoken of as "an angel of light" in v. 14. Have we not, in this, a clear intimation that it was not a snake, but a glorious shining being, apparently as angel, to whom Eve paid such great deference, acknowledging him as one who seemed to possess superior knowledge, and who was evidently a being of a superior (not of an inferior) order? Moreover, in the description of Satan as "the king of Tyre" (*1) it is distinctly implied that the latter being was of a supernatural order when he is called "a cherub" (Ezek. 28:14, 16, read from vv. 11-19). His presence "in Eden, the garden of 'Elohim" (v. 13), is also clearly stated, as well as his being "perfect in beauty" (v. 12), his being "perfect in his ways from the day he was created till iniquity was found in him" (v. 15), and as being "lifted up because of his beauty" (v. 17).
These all compel the belief that Satan was the shining one (Nachash) in Gen. 3, and especially because the followin 1000 g words could be addressed to him :-- "Thing heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness : I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee" (v. 17). Even supposing that these things were spoken to, and of, an exalted human being in later days (in Ezek. 28), still "the king of Tyre" is not compared to a being who was non-existent; and facts and circumstances which never happened are not introduced into the comparison.
There is more about "the king of Tyre" in Ezek. 28:11-19 than was literally true of "the prince of Tyre" (vv. 1-10). The words can be understood only of the mightiest and most exalted supernatural being that God ever created; and this for the purpose of showing how great would be his fall. The history must be true to make the prophecy of any weight. ~ E.W. Bullinger
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Greetings…
Below are the three tree types in the Garden:
Satan, the serpent, was the tree that she could not partake of:
Jesus was the Tree of Life before His time.
Similar threads
