Was Satan evil in Job 1:7?

[Truthnightmare]

It's just a word.

Here Jesus used the word to describe the actions of Judas:

1. John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil (false accuser or slander)!

So a couple of issues here for you to think about.

a. If Judas is an actual fallen rebel angel why would Jesus choose him as a disciple?
b. If Judas is a powerful evil immortal creature why would he hang himself? How can he die?
c. If Judas is a powerful evil immortal creature why would he not have attacked Jesus?

The truth is this - Judas was about to betray Jesus by slandering him before others and he paid the price for doing so with his life.

Do you require more examples?

Let me know - I've studied this subject for over 30 years.

F2F

But we know Judas was not the devil.
Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil

Judas did not have the power of death, therefore calling him a devil is merely pointing out characteristics of Judas.

 

[face2face]

But we know Judas was not the devil.

No, Jesus specifically said "one of you is a devil"

Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil

You have jumped to an unrelated verse...its a new context and a different use of the word "false accuser"

What has the power of death?

Use a verse to provide your answer....I'll give you a clue - its in Romans!

F2F

 

[Truthnightmare]

No, Jesus specifically said "one of you is a devil"


You have jumped to an unrelated verse...its a new context and a different use of the word "false accuser"

What has the power of death?

Use a verse to provide your answer....I'll give you a clue - its in Romans!

F2F

You stated “devil” is a word. But we can see the devil is a actually entity.

We are told….
Revelation 12
And the great dragon was cast out — that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world. He was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And again…

Revelation 20
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

4 different names describing one person.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Did Michael fight against a word? was a word cast to the earth?

Matthew 4
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Was it just a word that Jesus is talking to?

Job 1
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Was it just a word that came with the sons of God?

 

[face2face]

You stated “devil” is a word. But we can see the devil is a actually entity.

Do you understand what personification means?

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—Hebrews 2:14

Him is personified.

1.What is being personified?
2.What holds the power of death?

BTW way you are jumping around like a grasshopper - stay on Hebrews 2:14 which BTW states your devil is destroyed so you have more than one issue to resolve in that text.

F2F

 

[Truthnightmare]

Do you understand what personification means?

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—Hebrews 2:14

Him is personified.

1.What is being personified?
2.What holds the power of death?

BTW way you are jumping around like a grasshopper - stay on Hebrews 2:14 which BTW states your devil is destroyed so you have more than one issue to resolve in that text.

F2F

Our text read much different.
It is not “what is” or “what holds”
It is “who is” or “who” holds.

Yes the devil will be destroyed, but not yet, and we can stay in Hebrews if you like.

 

[face2face]

Our text read much different.
It is not “what is” or “what holds”
It is “who is” or “who” holds.

Yes the devil will be destroyed, but not yet, and we can stay in Hebrews if you like.

Okay.

Lets step back for a moment as I need to show you how the Bible uses personification.

The waters saw thee, O God, the waters saw thee; they were afraid: the depths also were troubled. Psalm 77:16

Do water have eyes?
Can water be afraid?

So water here is being personified to show how great God's control over nature is - here its referring to the seas parting. Nature is being personified to be like a person.

Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; Proverbs 1:20

Wisdom is being personified to be a woman i.e. something to be desired.

Here is another which applies to Hebrews 2:14

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin is being personified as if it were a person who works, who receives wages - in this case, sin, always results in death (divine decree!)

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

What had the power of death?
How did God destroy this power in His Son's death? Note "through death this power was destroyed"
Why would Paul call this power a "false accuser?"

See how you go.

F2F

 

[Truthnightmare]

Okay.

Lets step back for a moment as I need to show you how the Bible uses personification.

The waters saw thee, O God, the waters saw thee; they were afraid: the depths also were troubled. Psalm 77:16

Do water have eyes?
Can water be afraid?

So water here is being personified to show how great God's control over nature is - here its referring to the seas parting. Nature is being personified to be like a person.

Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; Proverbs 1:20

Wisdom is being personified to be a woman i.e. something to be desired.

Here is another which applies to Hebrews 2:14

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin is being personified as if it were a person who works, who receives wages - in this case sin always results in death

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

What had the power of death?
How did God destroy this power in His Son's death? Note "through death this power was destroyed"
Why would Paul call this power a "false accuser?"

See how you go.

F2F

It doesn’t say the power was destroyed, it says “destroy him who had the power”

The focus is on the person that has the power not the power itself.

Paul never calls power a false accuser.

Revelation tells us…
And I heard a loud voice saying in Heaven, “Now have come salvation and strength, and the Kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ; for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night.

Who is the accuser of brethren? Is it power? or is it the Satan.

 

[face2face]

It doesn’t say the power was destroyed, it says “destroy him who had the power”

Correct.

Sin (devil) is being personified in this verse.

So we die for two reasons.

1. We inherit mortality which always results in death
2. We sin! The Divine judgement upon sin is death....always death!

Take another look at Hebrews 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Let me add context in (brackets)

14 Forasmuch then as the children (You & I) are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same (nature); that through death (of that nature) he (Jesus) might destroy him (sin personified) that had the power of death, that is, the devil (that which falsely accusers us);

Do me a favor - read the verses before this verse, and after it, and tell me, is Paul speaking to the theme of an all powerful supernatural being or something else?

Next question is...How did God break the Power of Sin in the Body of His Son? And why was it important Jesus have our nature?

You are better to ask the right questions than make incorrect statements.

In this context the word " devil" is used perfectly to explain sin and its slanderous affects on all of us....as the next verse teaches!

Hebrews 2:15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death

By destroying sin which has the power of death God has freed YOU who are in slavery to sin and also fear death!

I'm sure that is starting to make sense?

There is no point in me explaining other sections of Scripture if you can't grasp the way Pauls uses this word here in Hebrews 2:14.

I'm almost certain if you are honest you would quickly see your being has no place in Hebrews 2 - no context whatsoever.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Truthnightmare speak tomorrow...maybe read all of Hebrews 2 - read it a few times...I'm positive after a while you will see the lessons begin to pour out!
Take care
F2F

 

[gpresdo]

Jesus spoke to the antagonistic Pharisees in John 8:


The devil (or the satan or the tempter) is a bad character from the beginning of Adam and Eve. God used him to test people. Job 1:


Satan had evil in mind and not just simply testing Job. He wanted Job to curse God and die.

NIV Habakkuk 1:


but yet, The LORD saw and spoke to Satan in Job 1.


These Habakkuk questions are exactly my questions.

Why did God look at Satan and talk to him?

At the time of Job, Satan had the official adversarial role of testing people's loyalty toward God. That was his job. That's why God interacted with him face to face even though Satan had evil designs in his heart. BTW, Satan failed to get Job to curse God and die. Job passed the test.

Why did God tolerate that?

Not only was God testing people; he was testing Satan and his gang of bad angels as well. God had a trump card to play, i.e., Jesus Christ. When Jesus showed up, he kicked them out of heaven. Now, instead of Satan accusing us like the scene in Job, we have Christ defending us at the right hand of God.

See also

• The changing role of satan
• Does God test/tempt people?

God looks at sinners and tolerates them so long as they fit into his plan...Job is an example. But, it is Biblically clear...He hates sin.

 

[gpresdo]

When measured by God's standard of righteousness...Satan is never good. I know no other standard which should be used as a measure.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Correct.

Sin (devil) is being personified in this verse.

So we die for two reasons.

1. We inherit mortality which always results in death
2. We sin! The Divine judgement upon sin is death....always death!

Take another look at Hebrews 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Let me add context in (brackets)

14 Forasmuch then as the children (You & I) are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same (nature); that through death (of that nature) he (Jesus) might destroy him (sin personified) that had the power of death, that is, the devil (that which falsely accusers us);

Do me a favor - read the verses before this verse, and after it, and tell me, is Paul speaking to the theme of an all powerful supernatural being or something else?

Next question is...How did God break the Power of Sin in the Body of His Son? And why was it important Jesus have our nature?

You are better to ask the right questions than make incorrect statements.

In this context the word " devil" is used perfectly to explain sin and its slanderous affects on all of us....as the next verse teaches!

Hebrews 2:15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death

By destroying sin which has the power of death God has freed YOU who are in slavery to sin and also fear death!

I'm sure that is starting to make sense?

There is no point in me explaining other sections of Scripture if you can't grasp the way Pauls uses this word here in Hebrews 2:14.

I'm almost certain if you are honest you would quickly see your being has no place in Hebrews 2 - no context whatsoever.

F2F

We just see things very differently.
Revelation 9:11
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Ἀβαδδών, ὁ Abaddon
Part of Speech: Proper Noun, Indeclinable
Transliteration: Abaddón
Phonetic Spelling: (ab-ad-dohn')
Definition: Abaddon, the angel of the abyss
Usage: Abaddon, Destroyer (i.e. Destroying Angel) or place of destruction (personified)

Ἀπολλύων, ονος, ὁ Apolluón
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Apolluón
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-loo'-ohn)
Definition: "a destroyer", Apollyon, the angel of the abyss
Usage: Apollyon, The Destroying One, a Greek translation of the Hebrew: Abaddon.

The manuscripts declare there is a person a entity, a angel that is evil.

 

[marks]

That’s the problem, the king is only a symbol and a type.

Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the King of Tyrus, and say unto him, 'Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

The King of Tyrus was never perfect t, full of wisdom, and beauty. No man as ever had these attributes.

Ezekiel 28:13 "Thou hast been in Eden the Garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the Sardis, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

No King of Tyrus was never in Eden

Ezekiel 28:14 "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

A cherub is higher than even a arch angel,
no King of Tyrus was ever a cherub.


.

What or who do you believe “the tree of life” is?
I believe the “tree of life” is Christ, which may add a different aspect to investigations of truth.

Do you think there was an actual tree in an actual garden?

Much love!

 

[rwb]

Luke 10:18
He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

I wouldn't say Satan fell! I believe he, who was the serpent in the garden, was created for a purpose. God created the serpent to be more subtil (cunning/crafty) than any other beast that God created. Why would that be unless God had a reason for creating him as such? Satan is then allowed access to Eden, where through his cunning ways he was able to deceive the woman who had no knowledge of good or evil.

Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Instead of falling from heaven, Satan was cast out of heaven with the birth of Christ. When Christ says, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven", I believe He is alluding to Satan being cast out by Michal and his angels when Christ was born. I don't find Scripture to affirm the opinion that Satan was an angel of God that fell.

Revelation 12:5 (KJV) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:7-8 (KJV) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

 

[rwb]

This tells me Satan fell after the creation week, not before it, since God created Satan.

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

The serpent was created "very good" for the purpose for which God created him.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus spoke to the antagonistic Pharisees in John 8:


The devil (or the satan or the tempter) is a bad character from the beginning of Adam and Eve. God used him to test people. Job 1:


Satan had evil in mind and not just simply testing Job. He wanted Job to curse God and die.

NIV Habakkuk 1:


but yet, The LORD saw and spoke to Satan in Job 1.


These Habakkuk questions are exactly my questions.

Why did God look at Satan and talk to him?

At the time of Job, Satan had the official adversarial role of testing people's loyalty toward God. That was his job. That's why God interacted with him face to face even though Satan had evil designs in his heart. BTW, Satan failed to get Job to curse God and die. Job passed the test.

Why did God tolerate that?

Not only was God testing people; he was testing Satan and his gang of bad angels as well. God had a trump card to play, i.e., Jesus Christ. When Jesus showed up, he kicked them out of heaven. Now, instead of Satan accusing us like the scene in Job, we have Christ defending us at the right hand of God.

See also

• The changing role of satan
• Does God test/tempt people?

Good question.. why did He look or talk with satan or the devil. Makes me think of when Jesus rebuked satan …with Peter. Saying “get behind Me satan” or OT Zechariah 3:1-10 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. [2] And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spoke unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused your iniquity to pass from you , and I will clothe you with change of raiment(of the new man) . [5] And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by. [6] And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying, [7] Thus says the LORD of hosts; If you will walk in my ways, and if you will keep my charge, then you shall also judge my house, and shall also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by. [8] Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before you: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. [9] For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, says the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. [10] In that day, says the LORD of hosts, shall you call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.

That doesn’t really answer the question which is a good question …but your question does make me consider the Lord rebuking satan.

Jude 1:9-10 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, did not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. [10] But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.


“Why did God tolerate that?”
God is long-suffering not willing any should perish but all should come to Knowledge of God? Consider “hand them over to satan that they learn not to blaspheme the name of God.” Long-suffering to hand them over that they may learn?

 

[TonyChanYT]

I wouldn't say Satan fell!

How do you distinguish between falling and casting out?

 

[rwb]

How do you distinguish between falling and casting out?

I make the distinction because saying Satan fell implies he was created to be something other than the murderer and liar he was from the beginning. People saying "Satan fell" typically think he was an angel of God, who through sin fell from that position and became evil.

Showing that Satan did not fall, but was violently cast out of heaven by Michael and his angels, shows that God is behind the power that cast out this subtil, cunning, and crafty demonic spirit messenger of deceit.

When reading 'angel' in Scripture, we need to be very careful about assigning this to the heavenly spirit. Because angel/messenger can be either spirit being or human being. So reading Rev 12 where it says, "Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels", we need to remember that Michael is a spirit being of God, angel, but Satan and his spirit beings are not spirits of God, but demonic spirits.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Satan fell implies he was created to be something other than the murderer and liar he was from the beginning.

Can you demonstrate this implication?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Satan fell

“removed” is the word I think of.